Manchester United Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 11/12

kryogen

MisterAnarchy wrote: »

That is delusional talk .
Best squad ever ,lol.

Its easily the worst Utd team in well over 15 years .

Where are the players with a bit of flair or spark that get the spectator off their feet ?
Where is the pace in central midfield ?
How many world class players in the squad ? None.

There is too much hype about footballers nowadays.
Reminds me of the people who were heralding Jones as the next Bobby Moore,an England legend in the making after about 5 games.:rolleyes:

Are you an expert on United history then now yes?

Oh, and your wrong so take this chap back under your rock with you :rolleyes:

Anthony16

Anybody think that Tiote would be a great signing for us?
Have been very impressed with him all season.
Would seem an ideal replacement for fletcher.
Very strong in the tackle and great engine.
Good age too.

Jimmy Iovine

Anthony16 wrote: »

Anybody think that Tiote would be a great signing for us?
Have been very impressed with him all season.
Would seem an ideal replacement for fletcher.
Very strong in the tackle and great engine.
Good age too.

Good player. One major negative being that he'll be gone for the African Cup of Nations every two years. It doesn't matter till the following season but it's a long time to be gone during a season and away from club staff who can monitor your fitness and all that.

Pro. F

Tiote has a clumsy first touch so he wouldn't improve the team when in possession. He wouldn't solve any problem other than the lack of a back up for Carrick imo.

Masked Man

Jimmy Iovine wrote: »

Good player. One major negative being that he'll be gone for the African Cup of Nations every two years. It doesn't matter till the following season but it's a long time to be gone during a season and away from club staff who can monitor your fitness and all that.

afaik its on again next season because they want to move it to odd numbered years.

Professional Griefer

Sure is. I like Tiote quite a bit, wouldn't mind taking him. That said, if we were gonna go for a midfielder from Newcastle, I'd much prefer Cabaye.

Anthony16

Pro. F wrote: »

Tiote has a clumsy first touch so he wouldn't improve the team when in possession. He wouldn't solve any problem other than the lack of a back up for Carrick imo.

Yes,i know what we really need is a playmaker in there.
However,we have been incredibly open all season and our back 4 regularly exposed.
I think he could really shore up that central area so that we dont concede ridiculous amounts of goals like 4 at home to everton,6 at home to city,3 at home to Basel.
We missed out on that energy with hargreaves always injured and now with fletcher out long term.

Pro. F

Anthony16 wrote: »

Yes,i know what we really need is a playmaker in there.
However,we have been incredibly open all season and our back 4 regularly exposed.
I think he could really shore up that central area so that we dont concede ridiculous amounts of goals like 4 at home to everton,6 at home to city,3 at home to Basel.
We missed out on that energy with hargreaves always injured and now with fletcher out long term.

We haven't been that open since Carrick got back in the team and don't forget that for the entire season there have been major problems in the back four. Tiote isn't really any better at defending than Carrick imo. Tiote might work harder and hassle the opposition more, but Carrick reads the game better and is far less likely to pick up a card.

I agree that we need a creative influence in there as well, but my point is that the defensive player shouldn't be one dimensional. What we need is somebody who can defend reliably and is good enough on the ball (doesn't have to be the most creative, just not poor on the ball). When we compete at the top of the PL and CL one dimensional players like Tiote or Carrick in the first team will always hold us back.

J. Marston

Might sound cruel but I'm glad to see the back of Blackburn. Constant pain in our hole over the years, especially away.

kryogen

One from off the radar a little bit, certainly with the media at least, Dembele from Fulham, attacking midfielder, tall, athletic, only 24. Plenty of positives about him, including that he is tried and tested in the league.

He does also fit the profile of buying from mid level/lower level teams. United have done business with Fulham recently also for a rough diamond.

Owen_S

http://www.goal.com/en-gb/news/2896/premier-league/2012/05/07/3087649/manchester-uniteds-pogba-accepts-juventus-offer

It's not looking good, but I wouldn't consider it a reliable source.

G.K.

Dembele would make a lot of sense. Can play in a midfield 2 as well as AM.

kryogen

G.K. wrote: »

Dembele would make a lot of sense. Can play in a midfield 2 as well as AM.

I agree, I'm a fan, I do remember him being mentioned here before, and I know I picked him to be at United next year in the where will they be playing next season thread, but that was more wishful thinking really.

He makes sense to me on a lot of levels.

homerjay2005

Owen_S wrote: »

http://www.goal.com/en-gb/news/2896/premier-league/2012/05/07/3087649/manchester-uniteds-pogba-accepts-juventus-offer

It's not looking good, but I wouldn't consider it a reliable source.

im going to predict pogba will be a united player next year. i expect the new deal to be signed in the near future.

kryogen

homerjay2005 wrote: »

im going to predict pogba will be a united player next year. i expect the new deal to be signed in the near future.

Na he is off to Madrid, heard it off a fella down the pub earlier, he is well in the know.

tvercetti

kryogen wrote: »

I agree, I'm a fan, I do remember him being mentioned here before, and I know I picked him to be at United next year in the where will they be playing next season thread, but that was more wishful thinking really.

He makes sense to me on a lot of levels.

I said the same thing in the prediction thread and he looked to have a good game again the weekend, I always like a CM willing to burst forward with the ball at his feet but I would prefer more of a dictator in there like Scholes and Modric.

Pro. F

Plus one on the Dembele appreciation. I'd have him ahead of Cabaye personally.

kryogen

Pro. F wrote: »

Plus one on the Dembele appreciation. I'd have him ahead of Cabaye personally.

Yeah, he would add an extra dimension I feel has been lacking from midfield for a while.

G.K.

Pro. F wrote: »

Plus one on the Dembele appreciation. I'd have him ahead of Cabaye personally.

I'd put Cabaye's defensive game slightly ahead of Dembele's, but Dembele's attacking game slightly ahead of Cabaye's - depends on which carries more swing I guess.

Pro. F

G.K. wrote: »

I'd put Cabaye's defensive game slightly ahead of Dembele's, but Dembele's attacking game slightly ahead of Cabaye's - depends on which carries more swing I guess.

Yeah sounds about right.

The thing is though I wouldn't trust him to be the defensive partner in a central two beside somebody like Scholes or Cleverley, for example, who need a minder. That might be harsh on Cabaye, those things are hard to judge because whenever I watch him he has Tiote beside him.

kryogen

G.K. wrote: »

I'd put Cabaye's defensive game slightly ahead of Dembele's, but Dembele's attacking game slightly ahead of Cabaye's - depends on which carries more swing I guess.

From a defensive point of view I don't think Fergie is in any rush to replace Carrick in that role

G.K.

kryogen wrote: »

From a defensive point of view I don't think Fergie is in any rush to replace Carrick in that role

I wasn't suggesting Dembele would replace Carrick.

G.K.

Pro. F wrote: »

Yeah sounds about right.

The thing is though I wouldn't trust him to be the defensive partner in a central two beside somebody like Scholes or Cleverley, for example, who need a minder. That might be harsh on Cabaye, those things are hard to judge because whenever I watch him he has Tiote beside him.

He'd be capable doing that in a game against Wolves quality opposition, maybe a bit more. He played DM against us in preseason and did pretty good.

kryogen

G.K. wrote: »

I wasn't suggesting Dembele would replace Carrick.

I know, I was saying that I think if a midfielder is signed it will be one judged more on what he offers offensively rather then defensively as I don't think Fergie will freeze out Carrick after his good season (like he did Berba) and Carrick does play the deep lying midfielder role well enough. Having a guy next to him with the legs to be the runner and get forward to support the attack would be nice.

MisterAnarchy

kryogen wrote: »

Are you an expert on United history then now yes?

Oh, and your wrong so take this chap back under your rock with you :rolleyes:

I'm more of an expert than you anyway but it doesnt take an expert to know that the present squad is nowhere near the best.
Its the worst Utd team in over 15 years and for you to say its the best squad of all time is just utter bollox.

kryogen

MisterAnarchy wrote: »

I'm more of an expert than you anyway but it doesnt take an expert to know that the present squad is nowhere near the best.
Its the worst Utd team in over 15 years and for you to say its the best squad of all time is just utter bollox.

Well you might just check and point out to me where I said it was the best of all time.

Shame you cant.

Ok, here, I will say it for you now actually, this current Manchester United squad is the best United squad in living memory.

lol your more of an expert then me? well my dad could beat your up! so there :cool:

MisterAnarchy

kryogen wrote: »

Well you might just check and point out to me where I said it was the best of all time.

Shame you cant.

Ok, here, I will say it for you now actually, this current Manchester United squad is the best United squad in living memory.

lol your more of an expert then me? well my dad could beat your up! so there :cool:

You said

they are not the best United team of recent memory, certainly the best squad in years though, if not ever.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=78536482&postcount=4495
But you are only partly correct.
Its not just the best United squad ever it is the best squad ever,of any team ,ever.

kryogen

MisterAnarchy wrote: »

You said

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=78536482&postcount=4495
But you are only partly correct.
Its not just the best United squad ever it is the best squad ever,of any team ,ever.

When did I say it was the best squad of any team ever?

You may have reading difficulties pal.

They are not the best United team of recent memory, certainly the best squad in years though, if not ever.

Do I really need to break that sentence down and explain it to you piece by piece? surely an expert like yourself and an avid United historian could grasp the simplicity of it?

smokedeels

MisterAnarchy wrote: »

I'm more of an expert than you anyway but it doesnt take an expert to know that the present squad is nowhere near the best.
Its the worst Utd team in over 15 years and for you to say its the best squad of all time is just utter bollox.

It's a fantastic squad, consider the injuries we've had, the youth (we have a back 5 that could play for another decade) and the versatility of players like Rooney, Jones and Valencia.

We could have fielded two 11s capable of finishing in the top half of the league.

I'm not sure if it's the best ever, but it's up there and far from the worst in any given period of time.

Kylo Ren

kryogen wrote: »

lol your more of an expert then me? well my dad could beat your up! so there :cool:

Frankie Boyle: I would have loved to have a gay dad. Do you remember at school, there were always kids saying "My dad's bigger than your dad, my dad will batter your dad!" "So what? My dad will shag your dad. And your dad will enjoy it."

MisterAnarchy

kryogen wrote: »

When did I say it was the best squad of any team ever?

You may have reading difficulties pal.

What age are you ? 12 ?
I was being sarcastic when I said it was the best squad of any team ever.
Almost as plausible as your statement.

He would make outrageous claims like he invented the question mark. Sometimes, he would accuse chestnuts of being lazy. The sort of general malaise that only the genius possess and the insane lament ..

kryogen

MisterAnarchy wrote: »

What age are you ? 12 ?
I was being sarcastic when I said it was the best squad of any team ever.
Almost as plausible as your statement.

pffft

Im bored of you now, you offer nothing in the way of backing up your misguided belief.

See you later alligator

kryogen

Keno 92 wrote: »

Frankie Boyle: I would have loved to have a gay dad. Do you remember at school, there were always kids saying "My dad's bigger than your dad, my dad will batter your dad!" "So what? My dad will shag your dad. And your dad will enjoy it."

Brilliant

Adolf Hipster

MisterAnarchy wrote: »

You said

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=78536482&postcount=4495
But you are only partly correct.
Its not just the best United squad ever it is the best squad ever,of any team ,ever.

If I said,

"You are a highly stupid person, if not, the stupidest person ever".

I'm not saying you're definitely the stupidest person ever, just saying you're not far off it.

Not that hard a concept to follow tbh.

Jax Teller

G.K. wrote: »

Dembele would make a lot of sense. Can play in a midfield 2 as well as AM.

He's very poor defensively wise IMO in a 2 man midfield much better as a Cam

Giggsy11

Coletrickle88 wrote: »

He's very poor defensively wise IMO in a 2 man midfield much better as a Cam

But he is doing good enough job for Fulham.

What I like about Dembele is his ability to retain possession with very good close control. Would love to see him at United but he wont be my first choice signing tbh.

Given the choice I would love to see Ever Banega at United. Superb CM, his ability to retain possession is among the best in the world.

Ashbourne hoop

Midfield has to be addressed, beyond a joke at this stage. At least two if not three quality midfielders should be brought in. I don't think Anderson is going to be a Utd player in the future, his fitness levels are a joke and his passing and shooting are shocking. The illness Fletcher has could have finished him as a top class player.

pinkdoubleeagle

Ashbourne hoop wrote: »

Midfield has to be addressed, beyond a joke at this stage. At least two if not three quality midfielders should be brought in. I don't think Anderson is going to be a Utd player in the future, his fitness levels are a joke and his passing and shooting are shocking. The illness Fletcher has could have finished him as a top class player.

You can add Carrick to that list

Mitch Connor

pinkdoubleeagle wrote: »

You can add Carrick to that list

yeah, add our best CM this season to the list. Why not?

lordgoat

pinkdoubleeagle wrote: »

You can add Carrick to that list

**** like this is the only thing more annoying than this season. **** sake, i'll see ye over the summer.

pinkdoubleeagle

Mitch Connor wrote: »

yeah, add our best CM this season to the list. Why not?

Absoloutely, When was the last time he ran a game from the middle of the park against top class midfielders?. Forget about games against Blackburn, Wigan and alike where he has all the time in the world to dictate a game. Has been destroyed the last three years in big games against decent opposition. Matter of opinions and that's mine

counterlock

pinkdoubleeagle wrote: »

Absoloutely, When was the last time he ran a game from the middle of the park against top class midfielders?. Forget about games against Blackburn, Wigan and alike where he has all the time in the world to dictate a game. Has been destroyed the last three years in big games against decent opposition. Matter of opinions and that's mine

Your opinion is that he ran the games against Blackburn and Wigan..... You might want to check those results again

Mitch Connor

pinkdoubleeagle wrote: »

Absoloutely, When was the last time he ran a game from the middle of the park against top class midfielders?. Forget about games against Blackburn, Wigan and alike where he has all the time in the world to dictate a game. Has been destroyed the last three years in big games against decent opposition. Matter of opinions and that's mine

So, what you are saying is we should sell Carrick, Anderson, Cleveley, Scholes, Fletcher, Giggs, Pogba, Park?

NONE of them have bossed a top level midfield recently, none of them.

Carrick is the best CM we have - not perfect, but the best we have. There are a number of players that require replacing before we look at Carrick and quite frankly anyone who thinks selling Carrick should be some sort of priority this summer is freaking insane.

Yes, we need to sort out the midfield, I have screamed for this more than most - but Carrick will be part of the solution to that, in some way. Getting rid of him would be painfully stupid.

You don't think the partner in CM has been an issue this season at all, no? You think Scholes has the legs to play in a 442 in a battling game? Or that Giggs or Park have been anything other than crap in a 442 meaning their partner (Carrick) and the team in general has been shafted by their sh1tness.

Yeah, sell Carrick - HE is the problem.

Un-FREAKING-real.

The_Kew_Tour

Maybe a signing we might be not looking at is a new number 2 to Fergie.

Is it time Phelan left the building?

IMO I think its time to make change or 2 in backroom staff too. He seems clueless on sideline, maybe im wrong, but I think we need stronger tactical No 2.

Mitch Connor

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Maybe a signing we might be not looking at is a new number 2 to Fergie.

Is it time Phelan left the building?

IMO I think its time to make change or 2 in backroom staff too. He seems clueless on sideline, maybe im wrong, but I think we need stronger tactical No 2.

Yep - we need a proper AM, someone who is basically the manager. Read Neville's book if you haven't already. He doesn't specifically say just how important the AM is, but it is clear from what he does say. Says, for example, the Barcelona semi's in 08 were ALL CQ's tactics and training - and that players like Ronaldo were part of his vision for the team. Quite scary really, in that I doubt Phelan has the talents and wonder what Fergie is doing without a top tactician beside him.... playing cowardly weak 451's when we need a result.

pinkdoubleeagle

counterlock wrote: »

Your opinion is that he ran the games against Blackburn and Wigan..... You might want to check those results again

Only using those clubs as an example and not specifically the results against them this season. I generally don't slag off United players but do feel that Carrick is the most overated and annoying player to have played in the last ten years

secman

The biggest problem United have at the moment, NO leader on the pitch, that was the big loss with vidic injured for the season. City have YaYa and Kompany as leaders, we don't have one.

secman

homerjay2005

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Maybe a signing we might be not looking at is a new number 2 to Fergie.

Is it time Phelan left the building?

IMO I think its time to make change or 2 in backroom staff too. He seems clueless on sideline, maybe im wrong, but I think we need stronger tactical No 2.

i called this out a few months back and i got slated for it :o i doubt its going to change though anytime soon. i have zero and i mean absolutely no faith in Phelan.

i think the off the pitch in general needs a shake up, fergie needs a strong number 2 and coach, not a yes man like Phelan.

our scouting team also needs a huge kick up the ass, though they do deserve kudos for de gea, smalling and hernandez over the past 2 years. sadly however, fergies "no value" references lie on their shoulders. there is plenty of value, we are just not looking hard enough for it.

a review of our fitness coaches is also needed, 2 seasons out of 3, we have been decimated with injuries.

SlickRic

pinkdoubleeagle wrote: »

Only using those clubs as an example and not specifically the results against them this season. I generally don't slag off United players but do feel that Carrick is the most overated and annoying player to have played in the last ten years

getting rid of him is going about things arseways though.

ok, he's not absolute top class. and the fact he is the best you have is maybe a sing of how central midfield has been neglected by Fergie over the last couple of years in terms of reinforcements.

whether you like it or not, Michael Carrick is your best CM. and has been the mainstay in an engine room that has helped get the team, what looks like, ultimately 89 points. an awesome return, and would win the league any other year pretty much.

getting rid of your best CM would be incredibly stupid. in fact, you may need to come up with a new word for stupid, because the word stupid wouldn't be strong enough to describe the act.

Sgt Pepper 64

homerjay2005 wrote: »

i called this out a few months back and i got slated for it :o i doubt its going to change though anytime soon. i have zero and i mean absolutely no faith in Phelan.

i think the off the pitch in general needs a shake up, fergie needs a strong number 2 and coach, not a yes man like Phelan.

our scouting team also needs a huge kick up the ass, though they do deserve kudos for de gea, smalling and hernandez over the past 2 years. sadly however, fergies "no value" references lie on their shoulders. there is plenty of value, we are just not looking hard enough for it.

a review of our fitness coaches is also needed, 2 seasons out of 3, we have been decimated with injuries.

What is "value" though? There seems to be plenty of one season impact value - hernandez, vdv, and a few others, but I cant think of anyone bought cheaply in the last 2/3 years that has made a lasting impact every season for the top clubs. I think for consistantcy, you do get what you pay for and that means spending over 20 million at least.
It will be interesting to see if Ba and Cisse are just as good next year, even if they move away from Newcastle. Ba hasnt looked the same player since the ACN

(Waiting for the long list of players to prove me wrong now!)

or look at Rooney, you paid, what 30 million for a teenager and now over the years that looks very good value