What to do about the prop problem.

totallegend

Here's a question. Why was Marcus Horan given a contract extension? It's just as detrimental to the national team to have him clogging up a bench spot as some foreign guy when he offers nothing to Ireland.

CIARAN_BOYLE

totallegend wrote: »

Here's a question. Why was Marcus Horan given a contract extension? It's just as detrimental to the national team to have him clogging up a bench spot as some foreign guy when he offers nothing to Ireland.

because Munster have not got a better option at LH unfortunately.

GerM

totallegend wrote: »

Here's a question. Why was Marcus Horan given a contract extension? It's just as detrimental to the national team to have him clogging up a bench spot as some foreign guy when he offers nothing to Ireland.

Necessity really. Ryan and Kilcoyne are going to both be 24 next season but it remains unknown if they have the ability to come on in a HEC match if WdP ships an injury. Horan is on his last legs and won't be able to do much but he still manages to get through scrum time just about which is essential. With Horan there for a year he should be used as a bench player and as cover but Ryan should be given all the starts against the weaker Pro12 scrums.

Samich

dougieruggie wrote: »

Because they don't turn over ball. Thats the point.

When I played schools rugby do you know how much time we dedicated to scrummaging? Maybe 5-10 minutes 3-4 times a week. Why? because it wasn't important, plain and simple.

You can turn over ball without going back the 1.5m

The scrums goes back at an almighty pace 1.5m, you think the young lads will be able to keep the ball on their side? It will be turned over.

dougieruggie

Samich wrote: »

You can turn over ball without going back the 1.5m

The scrums goes back at an almighty pace 1.5m, you think the young lads will be able to keep the ball on their side? It will be turned over.

It is extraordinarily rare for the ball be turned over at scrums at schools level. So rare that there is literally no point in wasting training time to practice scrummaging. Thats the way it is I'm afraid. Unless you've played SCT with a big six school then I don't think you can comment. Hour long scrummaging sessions just don't happen at schools level where scrums are limited to 1.5metres.

RoundBox11

dougieruggie wrote: »

It is extraordinarily rare for the ball be turned over at scrums at schools level. So rare that there is literally no point in wasting training time to practice scrummaging. Thats the way it is I'm afraid. Unless you've played SCT with a big six school then I don't think you can comment. Hour long scrummaging sessions just don't happen at schools level where scrums are limited to 1.5metres.

Pretentious much? What the point in this thread so?

Chavways

dougieruggie wrote: »

It is extraordinarily rare for the ball be turned over at scrums at schools level. So rare that there is literally no point in wasting training time to practice scrummaging. Thats the way it is I'm afraid. Unless you've played SCT with a big six school then I don't think you can comment. Hour long scrummaging sessions just don't happen at schools level where scrums are limited to 1.5metres.

This year my schools senior team had scrumagging sessions every week for an hour or 2.Seems to have worked for them for the most part.

Morricone

Having played rugby in Argentina I can say with some authority that a whole change in attitude needs to come in the scrum before we start producing quality international props. Look at the sheer number of top class Argentine and Georgian props playing in the French Top 14. They don't have more players than us, well the Argentines do but not by much.

As said previously the 1.5 metre rule has to go.

Underage a lot of the bigger props, by bigger I mean the big fat 14-15 year olds, never learn how to properly scrummage as they rarely face an opponent capable of shifting them at such a young age. Consequently as they move up the ranks their technique rarely if ever improves until suddenly they're 20 and playing a seconds match against some wily old fox from the country who knows every trick in the book. Suddenly the lad who was a big lad at 15 now gets exposed for having shoddy technique.

Also in Argentina there is a real emphasis on scrummaging during training sessions. At least once a week with the club I played for there was 30 minutes of dedicated scrum work between machine and live scrums. More time is dedicated towards the scrum than towards the lineout. That never happens in Ireland. I personally have never seen it.

Another thing that should be done, especially this time of the year, is that young props 17+ at clubs should be brought together on a fine evening for 2 hours and shown by retired club props how too srcummage properly, nothing too intense, just purely technique based and the old heads can impart the little tricks that they now. Give the young lads some work to do for the summer, scrum wise, and maybe do this once a month. It has to be enjoyable but it has to be educational, practical and extremely beneficial at the same time.

In sumation, young props need to learn from a young age how to scrum properly regardless of how dominant they are, the scrums must be contestable and there has to be far more of a training emphasis on scrums. Until that happens, we'll be lucky to have 2 props of quality test standard.

CIARAN_BOYLE

Morricone wrote: »

Underage a lot of the bigger props, by bigger I mean the big fat 14-15 year olds, never learn how to properly scrummage as they rarely face an opponent capable of shifting them at such a young age. Consequently as they move up the ranks their technique rarely if ever improves until suddenly they're 20 and playing a seconds match against some wily old fox from the country who knows every trick in the book. Suddenly the lad who was a big lad at 15 now gets exposed for having shoddy technique.

There are a lot of pros that are like that, big guys that have never learned to scrumage. Its not just an Irish problem. I'm thinking Borlase and Ah You here

Morricone

Morricone wrote: »

Having played rugby in Argentina I can say with some authority that a whole change in attitude needs to come in the scrum before we start producing quality international props. Look at the sheer number of top class Argentine and Georgian props playing in the French Top 14. They don't have more players than us, well the Argentines do but not by much.

As said previously the 1.5 metre rule has to go.

Underage a lot of the bigger props, by bigger I mean the big fat 14-15 year olds, never learn how to properly scrummage as they rarely face an opponent capable of shifting them at such a young age. Consequently as they move up the ranks their technique rarely if ever improves until suddenly they're 20 and playing a seconds match against some wily old fox from the country who knows every trick in the book. Suddenly the lad who was a big lad at 15 now gets exposed for having shoddy technique.

Also in Argentina there is a real emphasis on scrummaging during training sessions. At least once a week with the club I played for there was 30 minutes of dedicated scrum work between machine and live scrums. More time is dedicated towards the scrum than towards the lineout. That never happens in Ireland. I personally have never seen it.

Another thing that should be done, especially this time of the year, is that young props 17+ at clubs should be brought together on a fine evening for 2 hours and shown by retired club props how too srcummage properly, nothing too intense, just purely technique based and the old heads can impart the little tricks that they now. Give the young lads some work to do for the summer, scrum wise, and maybe do this once a month. It has to be enjoyable but it has to be educational, practical and extremely beneficial at the same time.

In sumation, young props need to learn from a young age how to scrum properly regardless of how dominant they are, the scrums must be contestable and there has to be far more of a training emphasis on scrums. Until that happens, we'll be lucky to have 2 props of quality test standard.

Nail on the head.

Great post. Stewart Maguire is a perfect example of the "powerhouse" at underage that struggled the moment he met a technically sound prop.

Morricone

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

There are a lot of pros that are like that, big guys that have never learned to scrumage. Its not just an Irish problem. I'm thinking Borlase and Ah You here

Oh completely, but in other countries they get weeded out or else they are taken away and actually taught how to play the role of a quality prop.

We, the IRFU and the provinces need to start thinking outside the box here, and no more scouring Argentina and Georgia for Irish grandparents because that is pie in the sky bullshít.

Argentina's season runs from March till about the end of November right. Why not send a young, highly rated prop between 19 and 22 over to Argentina for the three months of the summer. Set him up with an elite senior club and set up some sort of a link with the Argentine Rugby Union.

Language won't be an issue as I can vouch that on the majority of rugby teams about 60 to 70% speak English fluently, not decently, fluently. Oliver Tomaszczyk of Worcester Warriors did this in 2006 and he frankly destroyed Rodrigo Roncero when they went toe to toe in November.

Now some might say why would the Argies be willing to work with our props, what would they get out of it themselves. I'll tell you what, set up a link, send over our front rowers there and we'll take their backs and teach them how to catch properly, how to kick out of hand and how to kick. The level of kicking out of hand in Argentine rugby is actually shocking. Its because they never actually learn how to kick out of hand as they play no sport that requires it, so GAA skills that we take for granted, they simply don't have.

There is no reason why this can't work, the IRFU need to be proactive about this situation, a complete change in attitude needs to come towards the scrum otherwise Ireland will continue plodding along and getting exposed by decent loose and tight heads.

Here is Tomaszczyk;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FLFmCM27eSw

.ak

Morricone wrote: »

Oh completely, but in other countries they get weeded out or else they are taken away and actually taught how to play the role of a quality prop.

We, the IRFU and the provinces need to start thinking outside the box here, and no more scouring Argentina and Georgia for Irish grandparents because that is pie in the sky bullshít.

Argentina's season runs from March till about the end of November right. Why not send a young, highly rated prop between 19 and 22 over to Argentina for the three months of the summer. Set him up with an elite senior club and set up some sort of a link with the Argentine Rugby Union.

Language won't be an issue as I can vouch that on the majority of rugby teams about 60 to 70% speak English fluently, not decently, fluently. Oliver Tomaszczyk of Worcester Warriors did this in 2006 and he frankly destroyed Rodrigo Roncero when they went toe to toe in November.

Now some might say why would the Argies be willing to work with our props, what would they get out of it themselves. I'll tell you what, set up a link, send over our front rowers there and we'll take their backs and teach them how to catch properly, how to kick out of hand and how to kick. The level of kicking out of hand in Argentine rugby is actually shocking. Its because they never actually learn how to kick out of hand as they play no sport that requires it, so GAA skills that we take for granted, they simply don't have.

There is no reason why this can't work, the IRFU need to be proactive about this situation, a complete change in attitude needs to come towards the scrum otherwise Ireland will continue plodding along and getting exposed by decent loose and tight heads.

Hmmm... You know the IRFU are hiring a scrum coach right Morricone? Get yer CV in there!

CIARAN_BOYLE

.ak wrote: »

Hmmm... You know the IRFU are hiring a scrum coach right Morricone? Get yer CV in there!

Do, and outline your proposals in the cover letter, stress your contacts in the Argentinian club game.

shuffol

Is there any other sports that help improve scrummaging that young props can learn or be encouraged to get involved in. I think I've heard before that Georgians are such good scrummagers as wrestling is very popular there.

davegrohl48

Without having a very professional setup you would have noticed as well that the Georgians are very well built. We have to board guys in Carton House for weeks of pre-season to get the same effect. They have a big pool of guys naturally built like props. The Wrestling definitely helps as well.
By previous poster as well seems a big emphasis on scrum in Argentina.

A decent prop every two years would be a good aim for us. So we need backup immediately for Ross/Healy. I don't see us producing them much quicker than that. At moment we've only had Ross/Healy since ... Wallace? We haven't had alot of top level props in modern era.

irishbucsfan

I will begrudgingly volunteer myself to go on a fact finding mission to Argentina. I will investigate whether their climate might make for better scrummaging weather, so I will have to go during their summer. I will also need to investigate whether the Argentinian women are coaxing a raised testosterone level out of their youth so I will need some money for alcohol/night clubs etc, as well as a large supply of Irish whiskey that I can gift to my hosts. Finally it also springs to mind that the world famous Argentinian steaks might contain additives that secretly boost scrummaging skills, so I will need to be wined and dined (I stress wined because the tanins might just be key) in some argentinian restaurants.

I am willing to undertake this task, despite how horrible it sounds. I will put the good of my countrys scrums ahead of personal enjoyment. Dulce et decorum est, pro patria mori.

davegrohl48

"irishbucsfan - We have considered your volumous work titled "Vitamin D, Testosterone and Beef protein effects on scrummaging power of developing rugby players."
We are willing to engage in a trial period of barbecue ceilí salsa dancing in Athlone as you suggested.

justsomebloke

davegrohl48 wrote: »

"irishbucsfan - We have considered your volumous work titled "Vitamin D, Testosterone and Beef protein effects on scrummaging power of developing rugby players."

You may laugh but diet is probably one of the underlying issues. Diet and strength training knowledge is severely lacking in this country.

You only have to look at the scaremongering about supplements and the lack of squats rack in gym's to see some of the major problem we have in developing players of the right proportions for the positions.

edit: Argentina's Milk also contains rBGH which could help promote more muscle growth, so if we are sending them over there they will have to drink plenty of that

rrpc

We are now firefighting a problem that was evident as much as five years ago. That we currently haven't actually addressed any of the other incipient problems facing us in the next five years is equally disturbing.

We have no proper succession plans for 12 and 13 (Keith Earls may well be the answer at 13, but there's no plan
We have not addressed 4 and 5 either. Ryan is obviously nailed in but he's no youngster.

Other positions are also looking for understudies. 9 and 10 are not backed up even if Murray works out, and if he doesn't...

Tox56

rrpc wrote: »

We are now firefighting a problem that was evident as much as five years ago. That we currently haven't actually addressed any of the other incipient problems facing us in the next five years is equally disturbing.

We have no proper succession plans for 12 and 13 (Keith Earls may well be the answer at 13, but there's no plan B)
We have not addressed 4 and 5 either. Ryan is obviously nailed in but he's no youngster.

Other positions are also looking for understudies. 9 and 10 are not backed up even if Murray works out, and if he doesn't...

With Cave, Griffin and O'Malley available, Earls himself should be Plan B, with one or more of those guys given a go.

Monty Burnz

rrpc wrote: »

We are now firefighting a problem that was evident as much as five years ago. That we currently haven't actually addressed any of the other incipient problems facing us in the next five years is equally disturbing.

What really annoys me is that even if 'Plan Tony Buckley' had worked, we'd still be in more-or-less the same situation with an untried and unproven Mike Ross as the only available alternative when Buckle was injured, and not on the bench anyway for the game at Twickenham.

We need to have a swathe of competent T/Hs or ambidextrous props - 4 at least. This 'one player plus ropey backup' situation is a perpetual recipe for disaster.

RoundBox11

rrpc wrote: »

We are now firefighting a problem that was evident as much as five years ago. That we currently haven't actually addressed any of the other incipient problems facing us in the next five years is equally disturbing.

We have no proper succession plans for 12 and 13 (Keith Earls may well be the answer at 13, but there's no plan
We have not addressed 4 and 5 either. Ryan is obviously nailed in but he's no youngster.

Other positions are also looking for understudies. 9 and 10 are not backed up even if Murray works out, and if he doesn't...

Some of those problems havent been adressed by the IRFU because they havent been necessary yet. Why stick a youngster in at 4 or 5 up until now with POC, DOC, Ryan and Cullen doing fine until recently?

Why stick a youngster in at 10 when we have Sexton and ROG, two of the best OHs in the world?

Why stick in a new 13 until before this year when we have our best player, captain and defensive leader there?

Why stick in a new SH for the sake of it when we have a 22 year old Murray and Reddan?

A lot of these "problems" are just great for forums but arent all actually problems. Here are the solutions to the problems:

4 and 5: when POC and DOC are gone we'll have: Ryan, Tuohy, Toner and Henderson (Nagle?) + whoever emerges between now and then

9: When Reddan, Boss and TOL are gone (TOL should be already) we'll have Murray, Marshall, McGrath + whoever emerges

12: Now that D'arce isn't up to it anymore we have McFadden, Spence, Luke Marshall, McSharry, JJ Hanrahan (in a few years) + whoever emerges

13: Cave, O'Malley, Griffen, Earls, Spence, Farrell (in a few years) + whoever emerges


This is why our props are the biggest problems atm. Because we urgently need test level standard backups RIGHT NOW and the potential guys arent getting game time for their provinces because of the NIQ props.

twinytwo

buck65 wrote: »

Hey OP we have til 2014 to get our props sorted? Is International
rugby cancelled for the next 2 seasons so?
Again this fixation on a competition that reaching the last 4 is our aim, what about winning a competition that we have a hope of winning instead.

Unless you know any international standard props that are hidden away somewhere????

Ross prob wont be at the world cup. so............. Also if we can aim to win the 6n/gs then we should aim at winning the wc otherwise whats the point?

durkadurka

irishbucsfan wrote: »

I will begrudgingly volunteer myself to go on a fact finding mission to Argentina. I will investigate whether their climate might make for better scrummaging weather, so I will have to go during their summer. I will also need to investigate whether the Argentinian women are coaxing a raised testosterone level out of their youth so I will need some money for alcohol/night clubs etc, as well as a large supply of Irish whiskey that I can gift to my hosts. Finally it also springs to mind that the world famous Argentinian steaks might contain additives that secretly boost scrummaging skills, so I will need to be wined and dined (I stress wined because the tanins might just be key) in some argentinian restaurants.

I am willing to undertake this task, despite how horrible it sounds. I will put the good of my countrys scrums ahead of personal enjoyment. Dulce et decorum est, pro patria mori.

Eh..... With the greatest disrespect..Pumping your inferior Irish seed into the magnificent bodies of beautiful Argentinian ladies is only going to weaken their gene pool.

We need to send The Bull over to Georgia on an agricultural fact finding mission.

Or else bring Castrogiovanni over to coppers and let him run amok.

.ak

RoundBox11 wrote: »

Some of those problems havent been adressed by the IRFU because they havent been necessary yet. Why stick a youngster in at 4 or 5 up until now with POC, DOC, Ryan and Cullen doing fine until recently?

Because they've been aging and picking up injuries for some time now, and it's evident in the clubs that there aren't many coming through. Leinster and Ulster both ran programs in order to introduce new locks - don't know if that was the IRFU's idea or the branches tho...


Why stick a youngster in at 10 when we have Sexton and ROG, two of the best OHs in the world?

No one is saying that. We're covered at 10

Why stick in a new 13 until before this year when we have our best player, captain and defensive leader there?

Because he's 30+ and also picks up knocks? Why do we have to wait until he's under the knife before blooding a 13 in test rugby?

Why stick in a new SH for the sake of it when we have a 22 year old Murray and Reddan?

No one is saying that either. The future is bright at SH in theory - Reddan to start, Murray to bench, and Marshal/McGrath/Cooney to come through the ranks

A lot of these "problems" are just great for forums but arent all actually problems. Here are the solutions to the problems:

4 and 5: when POC and DOC are gone we'll have: Ryan, Tuohy, Toner and Henderson (Nagle?) + whoever emerges between now and then

9: When Reddan, Boss and TOL are gone (TOL should be already) we'll have Murray, Marshall, McGrath + whoever emerges

12: Now that D'arce isn't up to it anymore we have McFadden, Spence, Luke Marshall, McSharry, JJ Hanrahan (in a few years) + whoever emerges

13: Cave, O'Malley, Griffen, Earls, Spence, Farrell (in a few years) + whoever emerges


This is why our props are the biggest problems atm. Because we urgently need test level standard backups RIGHT NOW and the potential guys arent getting game time for their provinces because of the NIQ props.

The biggest problem here is the IRFU's conservatism in general. It's not just Kidney - the IRFU turn blind eyes to everything. The TH problem was as real 5 years ago as it was now. What was the solution to Hayes? Buckley. Talk about trying to fit a round peg into a square hole. What was the perception beyond that? Why wasn't the IRFU setting up induction plans THEN? If NIQ props were interrupting the process of native props then why didn't the IRFU do something about it? It's all too little too late.

rrpc

RoundBox11 wrote: »

Some of those problems havent been adressed by the IRFU because they havent been necessary yet. Why stick a youngster in at 4 or 5 up until now with POC, DOC, Ryan and Cullen doing fine until recently?

DOCs form has been slipping for two seasons now, he's no longer starting for Munster. Cullen has never been anything but a fringe player in the Irish setup and is also at the end of his career which leaves us with POC and Ryan. Nobody understudying them to take over: Toner has 3 caps (108 minutes) from late 2010, Tuohy has two sub appearances and McCarthy (also ageing) has 100 minutes.

Why stick a youngster in at 10 when we have Sexton and ROG, two of the best OHs in the world?

And how long has ROG left at international level? He announced he'd be retiring at the last RWC and even if that was a ploy to get him a start it still highlights the fact that his days are numbered. Ian Keatley has two starts from three years ago and nada since. Madigan has 0.

Why stick in a new 13 until before this year when we have our best player, captain and defensive leader there?

And when he's gone? How much more is left in the tank?

Why stick in a new SH for the sake of it when we have a 22 year old Murray and Reddan?

Reddan is 32 this year and nearing the end of his (stop-start) international career. Murray has started well, but needs to adapt his game to play with Sexton. His injury was a reminder that we are always one injury away from disaster in some positions.

A lot of these "problems" are just great for forums but arent all actually problems. Here are the solutions to the problems:

4 and 5: when POC and DOC are gone we'll have: Ryan, Tuohy, Toner and Henderson (Nagle?) + whoever emerges between now and then

9: When Reddan, Boss and TOL are gone (TOL should be already) we'll have Murray, Marshall, McGrath + whoever emerges

12: Now that D'arce isn't up to it anymore we have McFadden, Spence, Luke Marshall, McSharry, JJ Hanrahan (in a few years) + whoever emerges

13: Cave, O'Malley, Griffen, Earls, Spence, Farrell (in a few years) + whoever emerges

You're assuming that these players can make the step up to international rugby and slot in when needed. In reality most of them have zero or as good as zero caps and have never been properly tested. I'm not suggesting starting them, but they would benefit from a trip to NZ and spells on the bench, subbing on with experienced players to give them a taste and get them up to speed. I could have named as many players again as you have, but until we actually put them on the picth, we're going to have absolutely no idea as to who's going to succeed and who's not going to make the grade.

This is why our props are the biggest problems atm. Because we urgently need test level standard backups RIGHT NOW and the potential guys arent getting game time for their provinces because of the NIQ props.

We're in a firefight with our props. We've kicked the problem to touch for almost five years with the Micawbrian attitude that 'something will turn up'. Well something did turn up and it was our lack of a backup TH. We ran Hayes into the ground and left Ross out of the mix until he was absolutely, definitely needed. How lucky we were that he stepped up to the mark and actually improved the situation, but he's getting on in years (and was at the time of his first cap) and yet there's nobody waiting in the wings.

Yes, the provinces are to blame but our structure is such that the IRFU call the shots on player contracts, so they can't duck the blame in that regard either. The current search for a high performance props coach is a belated recognition of that responsibility but surely that's something that should have been done five years ago when the Irish scrum was held together with duct tape and band aids? On another thread here, there's a list of Irish props plying their trade elsewhere in the world. How did that come about?

My point is that whilst we're firefighting the TH (and wider scrum problems) we're ignoring the smouldering combustibles elsewhere on the pitch.

irishbucsfan

Toner has 3 caps

rrpc

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Toner has 3 caps

I thought he had too, but when I looked him up on the IRFU website, he wasn't listed at all :eek:

edit: Got him on a player search. One start and two subs - 108 minutes total in 2010 AIs

Wexfordboy89

does anyone know way ruaidhri murphy was refused permission by the IRB to change his nationally to Aus.i was reading an article online of an interview with him recently were he said that the IRB refused him permission to declare for AUS on the grounds he wasn't AQ but i thought that he was born there or that his parents were from Aus seems like a strange thing to do if hes already AQ????

leftleg

Wexfordboy89 wrote: »

does anyone know way ruaidhri murphy was refused permission by the IRB to change his nationally to Aus.i was reading an article online of an interview with him recently were he said that the IRB refused him permission to declare for AUS on the grounds he wasn't AQ but i thought that he was born there or that his parents were from Aus seems like a strange thing to do if hes already AQ????

Has he not played for Ireland underage; would that stop him?? correct me if im wrong

Wexfordboy89

leftleg wrote: »

Has he not played for Ireland underage; would that stop him?? correct me if im wrong

he has at under 20 but i wouldn't think that would stop him??? im not big up on rugby so that way i asked as theres a lot more knowledgeable people on here then me i was just curious as as to why the IRB did this.

CIARAN_BOYLE

Wexfordboy89 wrote: »

does anyone know way ruaidhri murphy was refused permission by the IRB to change his nationally to Aus.i was reading an article online of an interview with him recently were he said that the IRB refused him permission to declare for AUS on the grounds he wasn't AQ but i thought that he was born there or that his parents were from Aus seems like a strange thing to do if hes already AQ????

AFAIK his parents were Irish who lived in Aus for a while before coming back to Ireland. Ruadhri was born here. The family then went back to Aus when he was young and while he qualified for Aus under residency if you leave before representing the country apparently you don't count as qualified any more. He then moved back to Ireland went to Castleknock. He then did the Leinster academy and Exeter chiefs before moving to Australia with the intent to qualify (again) under residency and play for Australia.

CIARAN_BOYLE

leftleg wrote: »

Has he not played for Ireland underage; would that stop him?? correct me if im wrong

No it wouldn't

It is only binding when you play for a countries senior representative side, next most senior representative side (usually A but for France and Wales U20s) or most senior representative 7s side against another countries senior representative side, next most senior representative side or most senior representative 7s side

Wexfordboy89

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

AFAIK his parents were Irish who lived in Aus for a while before coming back to Ireland. Ruadhri was born here. The family then went back to Aus when he was young and while he qualified for Aus under residency if you leave before representing the country apparently you don't count as qualified any more. He then moved back to Ireland went to Castleknock. He then did the Leinster academy and Exeter chiefs before moving to Australia with the intent to qualify (again) under residency and play for Australia.

oh right thanks for that just wondered why.Are the Ozzie's gonna wait three years for him to become NQ again??? he`ll be almost 27/28 by then and i know that not old but would it not be old to only just starting out international rugby?

WeeBushy

Wexfordboy89 wrote: »

oh right thanks for that just wondered why.Are the Ozzie's gonna wait three years for him to become NQ again??? he`ll be almost 27/28 by then and i know that not old but would it not be old to only just starting out international rugby?

They're hardly going to shun him if he's performing in the mean time. 27/28 isn't that old for a prop to be starting out at international level, he'll have been gaining plenty of high level experience in the mean time. If he's good enough when he qualifies he'll be picked.

CIARAN_BOYLE

Wexfordboy89 wrote: »

oh right thanks for that just wondered why.Are the Ozzie's gonna wait three years for him to become NQ again??? he`ll be almost 27/28 by then and i know that not old but would it not be old to only just starting out international rugby?

For props it isn't that old. Hayes got his first cap at 27, Ross made his debut at 29. Or even in Australia Ma'afu got internatioanl debut at 26.

I dunno if Murphy will end up being good enough to play for Australia, its not like he is starting for the Brumbies anyway.

Wexfordboy89

WeeBushy wrote: »

They're hardly going to shun him if he's performing in the mean time. 27/28 isn't that old for a prop to be starting out at international level, he'll have been gaining plenty of high level experience in the mean time. If he's good enough when he qualifies he'll be picked.

i suppose your right there i mean Strauss is what 26/27 and he`s good enough to play international rugby.wonder why he`s so intent on playing for them if he`s not really Australian anyways good luck to lad there`s lot of guys that want to pull on the green of Ireland

CIARAN_BOYLE

Wexfordboy89 wrote: »

i suppose your right there i mean Strauss is what 26/27 and he`s good enough to play international rugby.wonder why he`s so intent on playing for them if he`s not really Australian anyways good luck to lad there`s lot of guys that want to pull on the green of Ireland

Because he was offered a job in Australia and not in Ireland and saying that he wants to play for Australia sounds good for the media.

Because there is a hefty appearance bonus for playing international rugby and he reckons that he has as much of a chance of getting into the Australian team.

Someone earlier in the thread mentioned that Australia have capped 12 props that play in the five super rugby teams. In comparison Ireland have capped four of the props playing in the four provinces.

Wexfordboy89

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

Because he was offered a job in Australia and not in Ireland and saying that he wants to play for Australia sounds good for the media.

Because there is a hefty appearance bonus for playing international rugby and he reckons that he has as much of a chance of getting into the Australian team.

Someone earlier in the thread mentioned that Australia have capped 12 props that play in the five super rugby teams. In comparison Ireland have capped four of the props playing in the four provinces.

12 jaysus there must be a real lack of good props in Aus then?cant make a guy play for you if doesnt want to plenty of good props coming thorugh for ireland young McAllister at ulster and Furlong from my home town of new ross in the leinster academy are two that i know of

jacothelad

http://youtu.be/tyoAHjn1Jfo

leftleg

would make you wonder why he hes not playing back here; looks like a great srummager; why don't the provinces go for that instead of the marquee signing?? Any insights anybody??

jacothelad

leftleg wrote: »

would make you wonder why he hes not playing back here; looks like a great srummager; why don't the provinces go for that instead of the marquee signing?? Any insights anybody??

He was at Ulster and developed a poor reputation 'socially' I am led to believe. He came back towards the tail end of last season and was in contract discussions but somehow they became derailed. I can't say why.

GerM

jacothelad wrote: »

He was at Ulster and developed a poor reputation 'socially' I am led to believe. He came back towards the tail end of last season and was in contract discussions but somehow they became derailed. I can't say why.

I remember reading some rumours about him socialising in a big way during negotiations similar to what EOD did in Narbonne but nothing to suggest that was anything other than conjecture. However, he's just turned 28 and about to join his third club in three years and fourth overall so something doesn't add up.

It's all very odd. He never made an appearance for Ulster according to their site but got one appearance for the Wolfhounds in 2009 so was clearly rated by someone in Ireland. One of the mysteries of rugby.

CIARAN_BOYLE

leftleg wrote: »

would make you wonder why he hes not playing back here; looks like a great srummager; why don't the provinces go for that instead of the marquee signing?? Any insights anybody??

Its not like he is getting a lot of gametime in England

http://www.ercrugby.com/eng/matchcentre/players_statistics_archive.php?player=8775&includeref=dynamic
http://www.premiershiprugby.com/squads.php?player=8356&includeref=dynamic
If he was playing week in week out that would be one thing but he is not

.ak

GerM wrote: »

I remember reading some rumours about him socialising in a big way during negotiations similar to what EOD did in Narbonne but nothing to suggest that was anything other than conjecture. However, he's just turned 28 and about to join his third club in three years and fourth overall so something doesn't add up.

It's all very odd. He never made an appearance for Ulster according to their site but got one appearance for the Wolfhounds in 2009 so was clearly rated by someone in Ireland. One of the mysteries of rugby.

It would make sense. I've always heard from friends that work in the IRFU that often players, sometimes high profile even, miss out on selection due to 'attitude' issues. Seems to be a big thing.

jm08

jacothelad wrote: »

He was at Ulster and developed a poor reputation 'socially' I am led to believe. He came back towards the tail end of last season and was in contract discussions but somehow they became derailed. I can't say why.

saw an interview with him when he said he decided not to go to Ulster when he heard Afoa was signed as he knew he wouldn't get much gametime with him there.

tolosenc

Disappointed that in nearly 100 posts, noone has refered to this situation as a "proplem".

BA-DUM-TSH.

Chavways

tolosenc wrote: »

Disappointed that in nearly 100 posts, noone has refered to this situation as a "proplem".

BA-DUM-TSH.

Oh My

WeeBushy

Properly prepropstrous.

durkadurka

Some serious impropriety going on here.