Phil Hogan

foxcoverteddy

So we have a prime example of a TD who should not hold a position in government, the household tax is a balls up, but we are paying him and not asking questions of Kenny. Why is he still there, but perhaps Kenny's absence is convenient.
You are so good at words, use them to effect.

catbear

foxcoverteddy wrote: »

You are so good at words, use them to effect.

Letting us know who you're addressing might help.

foxcoverteddy

Hi Catbear
You have onlyto read the posts in this thread, most of you are so articulate in your writing, it would be wrong to name just one, it is a pleasure to read what you have written.
That was the reason, sorry but have a nicwe day, regards Foxy

catbear

For a start I can think of a few bankers that mislead their investors but are still at liberty. Sean Fitzpatrick is still free even after admitting that he misled auditors for most of the last decade, borrowing money from other Irish financial lenders so he could plug shortfalls while his bank was being audited. When the audit was complete he'd return the loan and the deception continued. Dozens of white collar criminals, like Bernie Madoff, were tried and jailed when their deceptions were uncovered.

I agree that this new tax is unfair, why should someone with a five bedroom house be charged the same as someone in an two bed excouncil house. It isn't a user tax and given the soft touch Irish society has towards white collar crime these funds are likely to wasted.

I hope that the anti house charge protest can combine anti corruption as an equal standard in their cause.

flutered

catbear wrote: »

For a start I can think of a few bankers that mislead their investors but are still at liberty. Sean Fitzpatrick is still free even after admitting that he misled auditors for most of the last decade, borrowing money from other Irish financial lenders so he could plug shortfalls while his bank was being audited. When the audit was complete he'd return the loan and the deception continued. Dozens of white collar criminals, like Bernie Madoff, were tried and jailed when their deceptions were uncovered.

I agree that this new tax is unfair, why should someone with a five bedroom house be charged the same as someone in an two bed excouncil house. It isn't a user tax and given the soft touch Irish society has towards white collar crime these funds are likely to wasted.

I hope that the anti house charge protest can combine anti corruption as an equal standard in their cause.

why should goverment ministers be exempt, it is easy for phil the flute(r) to preach, why do our leaders ? not lead by example, they remind me of the military leaders of old, well behind the firing line, they are like the military leaders of the first world war, who wined and dined on christmas eve while tens of thousands were killed or maimed in one of the greatest massacres known to man.

fabbydabby

Ministers are not exempt from the household charge.

catbear

flutered wrote: »

why should goverment ministers be exempt,.

Why do you ask me that, where in my post did I say they exempt?

Davidian_ie

If you are still undecided about the Household Tax can I beg you one last time to pay it because I'd hate to see our Councillors starve, go without shelter or even end up pushing their car after it runs out of fuel.

http://www.kilkennypeople.ie/news/local/600-for-food-and-travel-expenses-on-weekend-conference-1-3672504

up for anything

Davidian_ie wrote: »

http://www.kilkennypeople.ie/news/local/600-for-food-and-travel-expenses-on-weekend-conference-1-3672504

I thought I was about as pissed off as I could get till I read that. Obviously the human heart has the same unlimited capacity for hatred of government and public service spongers and scroungers as it does for love when another baby comes along.

If I could afford a grave I'd be extremely restless in it.

foxcoverteddy

Well if the household charge is going to the council, I take it we are funding all of the member's to go to conferences, now that is not productive, who runs the conferences?
Are there relationships we should know about, after all it is our money they are spending in the luxury hotels./
Should there not be a ban on all this conference lark whilst so many people are having difficulty making the 100euro, and the council is spending it like it is going out of fashion, thanks Phil.
What expenses are the council workers going to get for knocking at doors?
Presume 95c a mile, would that apply to cyclist's?
I find it difficult to even contemplate supporting our TD in his time of need, when we have Kenny and other's going round the world, who is paying for this sight seeing trip,
What about the guy who went to the St Patricks day parade in the states bet he didn't pay,. and if they take the family who pays for them?
There is something rotten around, the quicker it is sorted the better.

femur61

Actually thought the house hold charge was to fund the government in its time of need. Didn't realise it was to fund our local councils with managers on their 6 week holidays. Pointless roadworks in the city. ripping up some of these pointless roadworks. We really need to erricate parish pump politics and vote for a government and not someone we know just because they can look after their buddies.

Davidian_ie

Well the general consensus is that Phil has made a complete balls up of this, so I guess the procedure now is that he will be rewarded with a job in Europe with a big fat pension to go with it. I'll predict with almost 100% certainty that he'll be in Brussels before Xmas. Hopefully Kevin Cardiff will have the time to show him the sites.

fabbydabby

The fact that our country is run by a parcel of incompetent morons is not a reason to avoid paying the household charge. It is a tax, just like stamp duty, VAT or capital acquisitions tax. Pay it.

Fianna Fail relied heavily on stamp duty to pay civil servants and politicians top salaries and they thought we would never stop building cardboard estates and selling them to each other at exponentially increasing prices, so they kept relying on it as part of their 'strategy'.

But why was there not uproar about this?

Property tax is FAR better than stamp duty from an economic point of view since it (in theory at least anyway) is a predictable form of revenue, unlike the stamp duty which as we all saw is extremely fickle.

Property tax is a standard tax in very many countries and I am 100% in favour of it.And if you have a problem with the fact that we are goverened by tweedle dumb and tweedle dee, why not vote them out, or run for election yourself, or campaign for a cause or individual you think will serve us better or do anyfking thing other than moaning and moaning online and ultimately capitulating and paying it anyway, plus penalties, plus interest.

Davidian_ie

If they were up front and told us truthfully what the money was going to be used for and what they foresaw as the eventual charge down the line, that would in some way win me over. They can never be up front about anything in this country. If they turned around and said that look we are ****ed and need a dig out for the country, would people mind paying e100 towards it this year, I'd have paid up. But they are trying to mug us off as usual and applying the usual subterfuge that seems to be par for doing things in Irish politics.

I appreciate your points fabby but I've got a right to moan. What Phil Hogan promised in his manifesto surrounding Local Government was just lies and deceit. He promised to eliminate the very things that annoy me so much about this country. He blatantly lied, so I'll exercise my democratic right to be a moaning, dishonest and reckless individual, just as you chose to be a subservient one.

fabbydabby

Being a dishonest and reckless individual does not affect Phil Hogan.

It affects me. It affects the other people who paid too. It also affects the people who need care and those and in hospitals and a hundred other things tax is used for.

Your dispute is with the people in charge, (and God knows I agree with an awful lot of what you are saying) but choosing to not pay a particular tax... a vital tax, just because you don't like the personalities or methodologies behind its administration does not make any sense.

Davidian_ie

So I'm responsible for all the waste in those departments, all the expense abuses in the system, mismanagement. Eliminate them, streamline councils and I'll gladly pay. You are asking me to throw e100 into a black hole. It's like giving money to a charity, the people who need it most will never see it or get the full value of the contribution. Show me one change to local Govt. since FG/Lab took power and I'll get down to council offices and part with the tax first thing monday morning.

It's costing me e120 to fuel my car now per week and it's only a 1.4, add the road tax and insurance and I've already passed my breaking point. What do I do? Who is going to help me with this problem? My standard of living is so reduced that all I can look forward to tonight is going to The Pumphouse and hoping pints really are e2.50.

Have a nice weekend Fabby and I appreciate and respect your opinions.

Francis H Murphy

Have you seen the photograph of Big Phil - front page of the Irish Independent ?
If ever a picture could tell a story
Who does he think he is ..... Ronnie Briggs the great train robber !

What arrogance.
To pose for such a photo confirms how out of touch the man is with the real difficulties facing ordinary people. Little wonder people are so cynical about politicians. 1 year in and you can not tell the difference from FF - new bottle , old wine
Bring back Willie with his gun !!!
Shame

catbear

fabbydabby wrote: »

Your dispute is with the people in charge, (and God knows I agree with an awful lot of what you are saying) but choosing to not pay a particular tax... a vital tax, just because you don't like the personalities or methodologies behind its administration does not make any sense.

I believe in paying taxes but also accountability in public service. The problem with the methodology is that it's just another tax without a visible benefit. If it truly was a local tax then it should be collected locally but it's not, it's another state tax by a government that's incapable of prosecuting the likes of Sean Fitzpatrick to account.

Bring back Willie with his gun !!!

Willie O'Dea, Fianna Fail, put the debt of gamblers on the taxpayer, the cause of money being diverted away from essential services and you want them back in power?:(

foxcoverteddy

Catbear support you all the way, I reckon old Phil drew the short straw for this mob and they will ship him out as quick as possible.
I do not believe we should be giving money to the local council for the weekend away racket under the guise of conference's.
Who is running the conferences are they at the same hotel's, and why do these people have to spend so much of our money when most of the info is on the internet.
The petrol at 95c a mile is a nonsense, we are buying the car at that rate.
Come on get real people first before your greed,. who pays the bills us.
Catbear why do you not stand for the council, lets get some decent common sense prevailing and get the twisters out.
Well done.

catbear

Foxy with heavy heart I say I don't believe in Irish societies expectations of their elected representatives.

When property developers were gazumping ten years ago, there was no protest march against that greed.

When banks were approving liar loans five years ago there was no protest march against that lax regulation.

When the banks debts were underwritten by the state in Sept 08 there was no protest march against it then or in the weeks before the bill was ratified in the Dail.

Yet when the bill for these absences of civil care has to be paid, suddenly everyone is surprised. What's the point in running for public office if the minute that you're elected those who voted for you turn on you because you have still have to balance the books.

Why would anyone bring that on themselves? What would my campaign be, magic the debt away? I may as well try to pull a rabbit out of my backside.
That's my perspective.

Thanks for the thought though Foxy, I've been asked before but I had to decline as I knew if I spoke my mind I'd never be elected.

foxcoverteddy

I guess we will see a smiling, brazen, old phil, on all the Sunday papers.
If he was a patriot, then him and Kenny shouild both resign, school children could have done a better job at collecting the, why is it called the household tax?
We have other's walking round, having stolen vast sums of money, pre vious government leaders who were blatantly negligent whilst in office, and have virtually put two finger's up to the general public.
The current mob have not put into effect their manifesto, why not they got voted in on it, one presumes it is a waste of time and money having one.
All I can say is RESIGN, but who do we elect in their place?:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

bennyob

Big phil, minister for sneaky taxes......

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FeXO67yuhDk&feature=youtu.be

foxcoverteddy

well Bennyob, as our friends keep saying there is something rotten in Leinster House and the council offices in Kilkenny.
The election manifesto has gone out of the window, and Phil and his mates are shagging the Irish people for all their worth.
I do not think we can go on much more in this state, ex minister's who were blatantly negligent are popping around here and there.
If truth was known there is so much undercover skulduggery going on, we would be shocked.
If we ditch this mob who is there to take over? They are all rotten to the core.
We need a new party made up of genuine Irish patriot's, not Phil baby's scared out of their wits people.
Perhaps some one can suggest how we go from here.

foxcoverteddy

Oh dear our Phil is complaining that his private life should not be in the public domain. That's easy righted Phil baby, get out of public life.
Having made the biggest ball's up in governmental history, it is definately time to move on, yes Portugal is probably far enough, go man go.
You cannot believe that some one can be so arrogant, vote for us we will put things right, like councils that waste money, the number of TD's, the use of vehicles by ex minister's, what a programme.
Haven't seen much in the way of axction apart from shafting the public who voted for them.
We have people on the boards who make them look like school kids, when will they ever learn.

catbear

I disagree foxy, the biggest cock up in Irish political history was covering the banks debts. Everything happening goes back to that decision. What was your reaction to it back in sept 08?

flutered

foxcoverteddy wrote: »

Oh dear our Phil is complaining that his private life should not be in the public domain. That's easy righted Phil baby, get out of public life.
Having made the biggest ball's up in governmental history, it is definately time to move on, yes Portugal is probably far enough, go man go.
You cannot believe that some one can be so arrogant, vote for us we will put things right, like councils that waste money, the number of TD's, the use of vehicles by ex minister's, what a programme
We have kids on the boards who make them look like pre school kids, when will they ever learn.

fixed that for you op.

foxcoverteddy

Hi Catbear, yep you are right, what did I think of the decision?
Well at the time we were fed lie after lie by Mr Cowan.
When the dust had sort of settled I guess like everyone else we felt cheated, mislead, who could you trust?
The captains of industry, who it turns out were not much better, in fact worse than the usual trough swillers, and many are still there, thanks Philly baby, you are doing a grand job.
I know your feelings I have the same problem withmy wife, we discuss these matters in great depth, but no she will not stand.
We need new leadership, people who are true patriots, Catbear do you hear me.
Perhaps the Irish are soft and gentle but in this world is that not something to be proud of, but equally it doesn't stop us tipping out the current politicians.
We need a new leadership far removed from Philly Baby, who doesn't believe in paying for bad service, what crap, how does he think we all feel.
Take care and sincere regards. Foxy

femur61

Todays Irish Examiner has a story about Big Phil and a lenghty meeting that took place shortly after the Moriarty Tribunal
http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/hogan-lowry-met-after-moriarty-findings-189496.html

foxcoverteddy

Interesting info on Philly baby, it seems we do not know where we are with these folk, they are more akin to butterflies than politicians.
One might say we are only there to provide the money, other wise we are a hindrance.
It is an opinion that one cannot trust those who hunt with the hare and the hounds.
Any more good stories?

femur61

foxcoverteddy wrote: »

Interesting info on Philly baby, it seems we do not know where we are with these folk, they are more akin to butterflies than politicians.
One might say we are only there to provide the money, other wise we are a hindrance.
It is an opinion that one cannot trust those who hunt with the hare and the hounds.
Any more good stories?

I can see you haven't had your coffee yet havewn't a clue waht any of that means