Phil Hogan

foxcoverteddy

Is it me or has phil left the country, not heard a word from him of late, or is he out collecting the 100euro's from the half million who didn't pay.
Still reckon house owners are being screwed, do not all the other people enjoy the facilities provided.
Some one hurry up and get rid of this shower, I know who do you replace them with? Must be someone with Balls, not unless we can get another Mrs thatcher to rise from the ashes.
After all women are far better at many things than men, aren't they?

catbear

Property taxes are part of nearly every OECD economy except Ireland, rates and taxes were abolished in giveaway budgets and electorates who believed in the existence of a magic money tree voted for that. All during the property bubble the only property tax was stamp duty and I heard one estimate of €100,000 in tax per transaction. Another estimate suggests that if private credit was taken out of the equation the Irish economy would have been in recession in 2004.
Property taxes and rates are part and parcel of sustainable public funding. No politician is going to be able to deliver an alternative to sustainable public service with property rates and taxes.
Still way too many people believe that their government is their means by which they can live at everyone elses expense, "what are you going to do for me" rather than demanding what's in the common interest.
Phil Hogan is just another name, put anyone else in and the problem is still the same, people don't see why they should pay taxes on their home yet expect someone else to fund their amenities and other public services. rant over.
BTW foxy, don't make this a sexism thing, you're smarter than that.

foxcoverteddy

Catbear, thanks, no just didn't like seeing the name out of the frame.
Agree about paying our share for the good of the community, as you say Ireland could well have been bankrupt many years earlier.
Much depends on the valuation put on property, I personally do not think those in council properties and unfinished estates should not pay towards the community.
My rates in London covered bin collection, and various community things like street cleaning, public lighting, funding the police, roads etc, water was seperate charge, I guess it included sewage, no one was excluded from payment.
Okay old people were, pensioner's and the like and those on the Social appear to be able to get assistance, also rent allowances etc, which in the manner of things is fine by me.

catbear

I personally think every house should pay except for pensioners. We all have a share in societies benefits and responsibilities, I don't know why anyone who can contribute in some small way should be exempt. Preferential treatment might get some politicians reelected but it creates resentment from those who give against those who take.
Also living off others does nothing for self esteem.

foxcoverteddy

Yes very true unfortunately some have no qualms of letting other's pay.
maybe it stems from a young age.
No system is or will be entirely fair, we have to ignore those whose way of life is such they will do their upmost to avoid paying fofr the good of the majority.
One item that appears to escaped the politicians is the father of children borne by unmarried mother's, no contribution towards upkeep.
Seperated couples is another area where contributions should be made.
Just food for thought to lessen the burden on the paye contributor.
Those at the top will of course had the system sussed out so in most cases minimum payment will be the norm.
Regards , Foxy

Sky King

catbear wrote: »

I personally think every house should pay except for pensioners. We all have a share in societies benefits and responsibilities, I don't know why anyone who can contribute in some small way should be exempt. Preferential treatment might get some politicians reelected but it creates resentment from those who give against those who take.
Also living off others does nothing for self esteem.

They are asking parents for their household charge receipt in Co. Clare as part of the third level college grant application.

Well played imo.

Cabaal

Sky King wrote: »

They are asking parents for their household charge receipt in Co. Clare as part of the third level college grant application.

Well played imo.

Pretty much yeah,
Suppose it can work both ways....if you are not prepared to contribute should the state contribute to you?

Dozen Wicked Words

Sky King wrote: »

They are asking parents for their household charge receipt in Co. Clare as part of the third level college grant application.

Well played imo.

Doesn't sound particularly ethical to disadvantage someone because of what their parents have or haven't done. If they themselves haven't paid something, then fine, but penalising them for someone elses actions? Wrong in my opinion.

Cabaal

dooferoaks wrote: »

Doesn't sound particularly ethical to disadvantage someone because of what their parents have or haven't done. If they themselves haven't paid something, then fine, but penalising them for someone elses actions? Wrong in my opinion.

But the grant is also based against the parents income....it has nothing to do with the student.

Your post suggests its unfair if a students looses out on a grant because the parents earn too much also, again because its nothing to do with the student.

Sky King

But the grant is also based against the parents income....it has nothing to do with the student.

Exactly.

Dozen Wicked Words

Cabaal wrote: »

But the grant is also based against the parents income....it has nothing to do with the student.

Your post suggests its unfair if a students looses out on a grant because the parents earn too much also, again because its nothing to do with the student.

I don't think its the same as if the student loses out because the parents earn too much but I will try again, only this time slightly more specifically.

Doesn't sound particularly ethical to disadvantage someone (who would otherwise be entitled to the grant when the parents income has been means tested using the criteria set by the local council) because of what their parents have or haven't done. If they themselves haven't paid something, then fine, but penalising them for someone elses actions?

Still wrong in my opinion, but you are more than entitled to yours.

foxcoverteddy

If you had read Catbear's earlier posts you will see Catbear is an advocat of an alternative style of government, the present system is unethical, unjustice and is allowing what can only be described gutter snipes from helping themselves from the communal pot.
We have to accept there will be some who are unable to pay the household charge, we had our Mr Hogan pontificating about extracting the money from those who see they have no duty to their fellow countrymen, but are quite prepared to enjoy the benefits.
However one must ask, why the current system was implemented, to recover the amount outstanding will no doubt use the proceeds so far collected.
The timing and application was indeed an act of political suicide, such applications need far more careful planning.
One also wonder's why property owner's were chosen to support the rest of the community, do not council tenents, those who live in unfinished estates, those in rented private accomodation enjoy the benefits.
Yes, it is called property tax, true an essential part of running the county, perhaps there might be a great improvement in the irish infastructure if we all pay.

foxcoverteddy

No one commenting on the last gaff, surprise surprise, unless you have been warned off.
I will not vote for him, I wasn't going to, but now it is just gone from bad to worse, there are times to keep stum.

S28382

Phill hogan like most other politicians is a twat that only cares about his own pay grade. He messed up twice in the last couple of days he is detached from the ordinary person and the struggles that some of them are going through.

femur61

I know its not PC but I wouldn't want a traveller family moving in next door to me. I think he is so inept at public speaking, I can understand why people dislike him but honestly if a poll was taken tomorrow would people be happy with a traveller family moving in beside them - the results would not be surprising.

Benny Cake

femur61 wrote: »

I know its not PC but I wouldn't want a traveller family moving in next door to me. I think he is so inept at public speaking, I can understand why people dislike him but honestly if a poll was taken tomorrow would people be happy with a traveller family moving in beside them - the results would not be surprising.

I agree completely with your point. However, it doesn't change the fact that Phil Hogan is a complete simpleton....

S28382

femur61 wrote: »

I know its not PC but I wouldn't want a traveller family moving in next door to me. I think he is so inept at public speaking, I can understand why people dislike him but honestly if a poll was taken tomorrow would people be happy with a traveller family moving in beside them - the results would not be surprising.

I agree about the traveller issue i would hate it they moved in beside me now even tho when i was young where i was living was near a halting site so they were always around. The thing with travellers is if you respect them they will respect you if you automatically show your displeasure at them then they wont give a fu*k about you or your property but if you be upfront with them then the majority of them respect that and they will never bother you and thats coming from living 10 mins from a halting site for 26yrs. Where im living now is near a small halting site and id often see the travellers pass through the housing estate and if i seen them id always say well and they would be friendly. I know some of the travellers are assholes its just a shame that there is a few of them that give themselves a bad name.

frankie2shoes

My two cents worth.....
If you bought a house in the last ten years you should be exempt from property tax til the ten year period is up. Too many of us paid very high stamp duty rates which we are paying off as part of our mortgage. Asking us to now pay rates is a form of double taxation. I was too young to remember but as far as I'm aware rates were amalgamated into another tax in 1974. A tax we still pay.
I know, as a nation, we are in dire straits, but the, so called, middle class is being sucked dry and there isn't much more it can give. Its time to look somewhere else for cash. The bank of Frank is near bankruptcy but there'll be no bailout for me!!!!

Threadhead

I can understand some of the gripes people might have about living near traveller families and that's absolutely fair enough. But for the sake of balance, I just want to state that I have lived right next to settled travellers for the best part of 15 years and never once has there been a problem. When I was a kid we had a halting site very close to our house and again, there wasn't a problem in the slightest with them. We played with traveller children for years with absolutely no bothers at all.

I have spent the best part of my life being neighbored by travellers and have had nothing but good experiences with all members of the travelling community. There are far worse people than travellers to be living next to. But that's just my opinion.

Tipsy McSwagger

<snip>

JohnMc1

I agree with Phil Hogan. The travellers have no one to blame but themselves. They don't want to assimilate and they don't want to follow our laws. Instead they would rather act like wild animals and they can get away with because the Gardai is scared of them and the bleeding hearts brigade.

Captain Havoc

The traveler bashing stops here.

Dozen Wicked Words

Captain Havoc wrote: »

The traveler bashing stops here.

So this is a halting site?

S28382

Who was bashing the travelers and what was said coz i didnt see it.

Captain Havoc

S28382 wrote: »

Who was bashing the travelers and what was said coz i didnt see it.

The answers:

femur61 wrote: »

I know its not PC but I wouldn't want a traveller family moving in next door to me.

Benny Cake wrote: »

I agree completely with your point.

S28382 wrote: »

I agree about the traveller issue i would hate it they moved in beside me now

JohnMc1 wrote: »

The travellers have no one to blame but themselves. They don't want to assimilate and they don't want to follow our laws. Instead they would rather act like wild animals and they can get away with because the Gardai is scared of them and the bleeding hearts brigade.

fifilasparkle

I agree with Threadhead - there are worse people to be living beside. I think people are people - regardless of whether travellers or settled - if they are annoying and a bad neighbour, they will be anyway - regardless of what background they have. I think that for a politician to step in to prevent a traveller family from being settled close to one of his constituents is an absolute disgrace for anyone and makes them a racist, but for a politician and a member of government to do it? He should be fired. No one is allowed to judge another so why does he get away with it?

I think Irish people's attitudes to travellers generally is also a disgrace - John Joe Nevin is a traveller and we were all delighted to claim his victory in the Olympics as a wonderful thing - yet the majority of people actively dislike everything about his background bar the medal. All of you should be ashamed of yourselves. Just my two cents worth.

JohnMc1

fifilasparkle wrote: »

I agree with Threadhead - there are worse people to be living beside. I think people are people - regardless of whether travellers or settled - if they are annoying and a bad neighbour, they will be anyway - regardless of what background they have. I think that for a politician to step in to prevent a traveller family from being settled close to one of his constituents is an absolute disgrace for anyone and makes them a racist, but for a politician and a member of government to do it? He should be fired. No one is allowed to judge another so why does he get away with it?

I think Irish people's attitudes to travellers generally is also a disgrace - John Joe Nevin is a traveller and we were all delighted to claim his victory in the Olympics as a wonderful thing - yet the majority of people actively dislike everything about his background bar the medal. All of you should be ashamed of yourselves. Just my two cents worth.

You can cry racism or discrimination all you want. Its not going to change anything. And trying to stifle complaints against them will only make things worse.The reason people have a negative opinion of the travellers is because of the travellers themselves. Its up to them to change peoples perception of them. Sadly the majority of the travellers don't want to change or become part of normal society. So sadly ones like John Joe are a rarity and an exception to the rule.

fifilasparkle

JohnMc1 wrote: »

You can cry racism or discrimination all you want. Its not going to change anything. And trying to stifle complaints against them will only make things worse.The reason people have a negative opinion of the travellers is because of the travellers themselves. Its up to them to change peoples perception of them. Sadly the majority of the travellers don't want to change or become part of normal society. So sadly ones like John Joe are a rarity and an exception to the rule.

I will give you that not all travellers help their reputation, but that doesn't mean that the rest of us are perfect either. If I am not mistaken a gang war in Dublin has resulted in a number of shootings in the last week alone; drugs and all the associated criminal activities abound in our society and I am sure all those robberies and cases of fraud reported yesterday were not all done by travellers but by a number of members of the rest of society.

If people continuously expect the worst from travellers they will never have the motivation to do better. If you put a child down consistently, (assuming the child was not taken from you by social services) you would end up with a child who probably just lives up to the insults you directed at them for all their lives. How is it different with travellers? No one is suggesting you have to love them and invite them to your party, but we do need to give them a chance and not always expect the worst from them.

Cabaal

fifilasparkle wrote: »

If people continuously expect the worst from travellers they will never have the motivation to do better.

Nonsense,
The opportunity for any section of Irish society to succeed are available including travelers. Blaming settled people for the problems that travelers can cause and some most certainly do cause is just foolish.

Benny Cake

fifilasparkle wrote: »

If people continuously expect the worst from travellers they will never have the motivation to do better

Are you for real?