Separate Tri Forum

donothoponpop

What's the feeling on this? I'm sick to the back teeth of the goody-bag mentality on the main forum, is it time to request a separate Tri forum? FWIW I think shotgun is doing a great job, and I'd like to see the Tri logs have their own subforum.

Poll added to get a general idea of what people think.

pconn062

donothoponpop wrote: »

What's the feeling on this? I'm sick to the back teeth of the goody-bag mentality on the main forum, is it time to request a separate Tri forum? FWIW I think shotgun is doing a great job, and I'd like to see the Tri logs have their own subforum.

Poll added to get a general idea of what people think.

Personally I think it's comments like that add fuel to the fire of the so called "goody bag" mentality as you call it. It will put off non tri athletes and newbies of commenting on this forum if more people post elitist comments like that. Also why separate the tri logs? I don't compete in tri myself but I enjoy reading the logs so why would you bother separating them?

MrCreosote

There should definitely be a separate Tri forum- the subforum gets nearly as much traffic as the main forum most days.

While they're at it, maybe there should be another forum for elitist attitudes where people can go to pat themselves on their backs about how great they are at their hobbies, and how much better they are than all those other wasters who don't take things as seriously.
Keep the "goody-bag" discussions!

donothoponpop

Keep the current subforum as part of A/R/T

Point taken about the "goody bag" comment lads. Even though I still stand by it, although its probably a reaction to having been on the main forum for so many years, and seeing the same discussions come up again and again. In my eye's, the lack of challenge or ambition has put off so many of the faster posters, who couch to 5k guys could learn something from.

I'm as newbie to Tri as they come, and some of my basic questions might rankle the more experienced athletes, but they've been answered informatively. The flip side of that is I won't expect medals for getting around my first Tri, and more importantly, won't put my achievement on a par with those who beat me (that's how I see the main A/R/T forum going).

Sorry if I gave mixed messages in the OP; the main purpose is to get an idea of numbers who want a separate forum, although discussion is useful and welcome too.

KentuckyPete

Merge everything back to A/R/T

Agree that there's a lot of repetitive sh1te in the main forum but there are good threads there too. However, once the tri racing season gets going properly we'll no doubt see some repetitive stuff on here too about goody bags / I don't think the course was accurately measured / some guy moved my runners /I do a bit of GAA could I do an Ironman etc.

Personally the current setup works for me - I don't post much but check both forums most days. I don't really have time to read all the logs - for some reason I follow shotgun's regularly but that's it - so I've no real opinion either way on the logs thing.

couerdelion

Keep the current subforum as part of A/R/T

I use both the main and this one quite a bit but would still prefer to see everything seperated out.

In the main I am only reading the tri logs and although I do browse the others now and again if I see one I enjoy I subscribe to it.

Ideally an exact replice of the main forum, with sub forums for equipment, races and logs would work for me.

tunney

Keep the current subforum as part of A/R/T

MrCreosote wrote: »

There should definitely be a separate Tri forum- the subforum gets nearly as much traffic as the main forum most days.

While they're at it, maybe there should be another forum for elitist attitudes where people can go to pat themselves on their backs about how great they are at their hobbies, and how much better they are than all those other wasters who don't take things as seriously.
Keep the "goody-bag" discussions!

As long as we can have a back slapping aren't we all great for our pi$$ poor performances thread.

Sometimes a succinct statement like "sorry thats just a sh1te time" is appropriate.

RacoonQueen

Makes no difference to me. If I'm not interested in a thread or posts I don't read them no matter what section they're in. It's only the internet, it doesn't matter.

woody1

Keep the current subforum as part of A/R/T

"Sometimes a succinct statement like "sorry thats just a sh1te time" is appropriate "

im sure people know by their race position how ****e or otherwise theyve done, i sure do, but my times bad as they are , are still improving, am i meant to be unhappy with that
or does everyone have to aspire to be an ironman


back on topic
is it that hard to navigate to triathlon duathlon adventure racing without even looking at the main art forum,
so i cant see why it cant be left as it is, but ive no huge objection to it being changed..

nerraw1111

I’d favour keeping the logs where they are. Great to click in and out of different logs, be it marathon, sub 60 ten mile attempts, hill running etc. Pain of the arse clicking in and out of different logs.

I think the main forum is still an interesting read. The tri forum will just get as repetitive as the main one after a while, doesn’t prevent good threads though.

tunney

Keep the current subforum as part of A/R/T

woody1 wrote: »

"Sometimes a succinct statement like "sorry thats just a sh1te time" is appropriate "

im sure people know by their race position how ****e or otherwise theyve done, i sure do, but my times bad as they are , are still improving, am i meant to be unhappy with that
or does everyone have to aspire to be an ironman

I meant sometime calling a spade a spade is required.

Sometimes someone is overweight.
Sometimes someone is slow for their age/sex.
Sometimes something is a stupid idea.

The lack of *honest* discussion on the main is frustration to say the least.

woody1

Keep the current subforum as part of A/R/T

fair enough, cant argue with that.

Krusty_Clown

What's the point? Is it for disassociation? An equal status thing?
By all means do it, but do it for a worthwhile reason.

elvis jones

Keep the current subforum as part of A/R/T

What do you mean i can't do the women's mini marathon ?

donothoponpop

Keep the current subforum as part of A/R/T

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

What's the point? Is it for disassociation? An equal status thing?
By all means do it, but do it for a worthwhile reason.

I think a standalone forum would help Tri expand, by having its own flavour. I've lost count of the amount of times someone slow*- there, I said it- on the A/R/T forum accuses other posters of being "elitist", as if that was a bad thing. There doesn't seem to be a similar level of couch-5k-marathon mutual backslapping on the Tri subforum, nor is there any dilution of achievement or competition, and I'd think it could grow better with its own charter and rules.

*Please note I'm not knocking anyone for being slow, or doing couch-5k, or whatever. I'm well aware "slow" is subjective, and everyone has to start from somewhere.

RayCun

I think your new tri-goggles haven't had the rose tint washed out yet

donothoponpop

Keep the current subforum as part of A/R/T

RayCun wrote: »

I think your new tri-goggles haven't had the rose tint washed out yet

What do you mean by that?

RayCun

donothoponpop wrote: »

What do you mean by that?

If someone asks a couch 2 5k question in the main forum, chances are you've heard it a million times before, and answered it a thousand times yourself. The number of 'advanced' threads hasn't really gone down that much/at all, but you've had your fill of the more basic questions and so each new one is another spike in your brain There are as many fast runners around as there always were, but maybe you're not learning as much from them any more - because you've already learned so much - so their inputs don't register as much.

In tri, on the other hand, everything is new! and exciting! "How do I train for my first tri?" oohh, good question! "what kind of bike should I get?" hey, I want to know that too! and everyone seems to know so much more than you....

...but give it a while, and these questions will no longer be new, and you'll realise that there are plenty of newbie triathletes too, and omg you've just turned into tunney :eek:

donothoponpop

Keep the current subforum as part of A/R/T

RayCun wrote: »

If someone asks a couch 2 5k question in the main forum, chances are you've heard it a million times before, and answered it a thousand times yourself. The number of 'advanced' threads hasn't really gone down that much/at all, but you've had your fill of the more basic questions and so each new one is another spike in your brain There are as many fast runners around as there always were, but maybe you're not learning as much from them any more - because you've already learned so much - so their inputs don't register as much.

In tri, on the other hand, everything is new! and exciting! "How do I train for my first tri?" oohh, good question! "what kind of bike should I get?" hey, I want to know that too! and everyone seems to know so much more than you....

...but give it a while, and these questions will no longer be new, and you'll realise that there are plenty of newbie triathletes too, and omg you've just turned into tunney :eek:

Yeah Ray, I said this myself several posts back. My personal opinion shouldn't matter much; this is about something that has been discussed and dragged out for years. Tri is one of the biggest sports in Ireland now, and its lumped in with the running boom, and that shouldn't be the case.

RayCun

donothoponpop wrote: »

Yeah Ray, I said this myself several posts back. My personal opinion shouldn't matter much; this is about something that has been discussed and dragged out for years. Tri is one of the biggest sports in Ireland now, and its lumped in with the running boom, and that shouldn't be the case.

(I don't mind whether tri wants to stay a subforum, go it alone, or merge)

Do you think a new forum is needed because tri is too big to be a subforum? (I don't think it has been that busy, so far)
Or because the standard is higher and it needs to be cut loose before its dragged down?

elvis jones

Keep the current subforum as part of A/R/T

tunney wrote: »

I meant sometime calling a spade a spade is required.

Sometimes someone is overweight.
Sometimes someone is slow for their age/sex.
Sometimes something is a stupid idea.

The lack of *honest* discussion on the main is frustration to say the least.

Thats me, but the mirror can tell me things you never will;)

shotgunmcos

Keep the current subforum as part of A/R/T

RayCun wrote: »

(I don't mind whether tri wants to stay a subforum, go it alone, or merge)

Do you think a new forum is needed because tri is too big to be a subforum? (I don't think it has been that busy, so far)
Or because the standard is higher and it needs to be cut loose before its dragged down?

I think it should be a separate Forum becaue its a completely different sport. Regardless of how big, small, exciting, new, drab etc.. it may be

elvis jones

Keep the current subforum as part of A/R/T

RayCun wrote: »

(I don't mind whether tri wants to stay a subforum, go it alone, or merge)

Do you think a new forum is needed because tri is too big to be a subforum? (I don't think it has been that busy, so far)
Or because the standard is higher and it needs to be cut loose before its dragged down?

Compared to others i stated in another thread is really busy. Others hasn't posts in 3 weeks yet are there.

Example being Frisbee, last post on Feb 25th.

Oryx

Even if dpop turns into tunney, tunney will still think his times are sh*te.

Should there be a separate tri forum.... Well, I wouldnt mind if there was, it would be a one stop shop. But would this forum remain, or would mini-ARs and Duathlons have to have their own forums too? I see where people are coming from on the training log thing, I look at the current training log forum and I havent a clue who is training for what so I hardly ever browse there. I sub to about ten logs at the moment, and tend to pick up on new interesting ones by word of mouth, so its not a big deal.

The elitist attitude does bother me, in all the forums though. Its not that I dont think you can tell someone they are slow, or should aim higher, of course you can. (Im slow ffs) But at the same time it needs to be done with tact. You dont want to alienate people. I didnt get talked down to (much -the tactless ones know who they are... ) when I posted here first, but at the same time I established pretty quickly how low in the rankings I was. Its just a close thing between showing someone what they need to work towards, and making them feel like not good enough to post. That doesnt happen here, but I wouldnt want anyone to feel like this is a clique that only the best can join.

griffin100

How do you split the training logs between Tri logs and the the logs of those that can't swim?

For example Jackyback is going for a sub 3 in Barca in a couple of weeks but his longer season goal is IM - does his log go in the Tri or Running log forum?

Do you have to swear an oath of allegiance at the time of the split and declare yourself as an official (run log) or a provisional (tri log) or as a dissident (messing log)?

We could set up an 'elite' sub forum for those that are bored of looking at repeated pleb questions. You could e-mail your race results to an elite mod who could send you a password to enter, assuming your results were up to scratch - sub 9hr IM; sub 2.30 marathon; sub whatever in a messing event. Then all of the elites could get together and compare war stories.

The only place where there is any real sustained year round activity is in the training logs. A dedicated tri forum is going to be very quite in the winter......

It ain't broke, leave it alone. Far too much messing with the layout already this year.

tunney

Keep the current subforum as part of A/R/T

RayCun wrote: »

(I don't mind whether tri wants to stay a subforum, go it alone, or merge)

Do you think a new forum is needed because tri is too big to be a subforum? (I don't think it has been that busy, so far)
Or because the standard is higher and it needs to be cut loose before its dragged down?

For me its separation, events subforum, logs subforum, gear subforum. I really don't care about a pure runners perspective.

yes it will be quieter but the AR board would have alot less traffic too with no triathletes posting about bikes, races or the like.

elvis jones

Keep the current subforum as part of A/R/T

tunney wrote: »

For me its separation, events subforum, logs subforum, gear subforum. I really don't care about a pure runners perspective.

yes it will be quieter but the AR board would have alot less traffic too with no triathletes posting about bikes, races or the like.

Thats true as i never know to post there or in the cycling forum about bike issues. At least here we'd have a home to do it.

hf4z6sqo7vjngi

Keep the current subforum as part of A/R/T

Seperate tri forum for me as i rarely read the main page anymore, in fact i seem to generally spend more time on ST lately.
I reckon things will pick up here though once race season kicks off.

RayCun

shotgunmcos wrote: »

I think it should be a separate Forum becaue its a completely different sport. Regardless of how big, small, exciting, new, drab etc.. it may be

That's a good point, and that's why I was keen for there to be some separation - triathletes are a distinct group in A/R/T, with their own concerns, events, etc
But is the break that clean? Lots of triathletes run proper races too, without the long warmup - would an entirely different forum just make things more awkward?

Donelson

Keep the current subforum as part of A/R/T

I have to admire the triathlon guys/girls as you all seem pretty clued in. I reckon it's the fear of drowning that stops people from just "giving it a lash" so from that point of view a stand alone forum would make a lot of sense, but AR should come back to the main page, a it seem like more of "ah sure I'll give that a go" mentality that you find with running.

nerraw1111

Actually shotgun makes a good point, it is a separate sport so on that point, probably should be a separate forum. Which in turn might attract more people to post rather than wade through non related posts.

Regarding the elitist attitude. I'm not so sure. I appreciate that Tunney calls it as he sees it. Bit rough around the edges, I'd go with your PB is soft rather than your times are **** approach but still the same message. Not sure if this is a triathlete thing or a boards.ie thing but I find it refreshing.

But that shouldn't be a reason to dismiss the main ART forum

baza1976

Merge everything back to A/R/T

donothoponpop wrote: »

I'm as newbie to Tri as they come, and some of my basic questions might rankle the more experienced athletes, but they've been answered informatively. The flip side of that is I won't expect medals for getting around my first Tri, and more importantly, won't put my achievement on a par with those who beat me (that's how I see the main A/R/T forum going).

Theres a certain "Mr T" here who will put you in your place in the tri forum someday

shotgunmcos

Keep the current subforum as part of A/R/T

Comprehensive enough poll... hmmm

Enduro

I presume the intent for the separatists is to leave the "AR" part behind. Which makes perfect sense for real AR, as the best home for real AR would probably be the outdoor pursuits forum.

However the mongrel multisports events that get labelled "AR" are closer to triathlon than any other sport. If someone was looking for advice on training for these races I'd point them in the direction of the triathlon forum. They're just half-arsed xterras for non-swimmers after all. Actually, where would X-terras go in the split?

RayCun

The mongrel stuff would have to go with triathlon. It makes no sense to leave them with Athletics/Running, and there's not enough of a community to support a separate forum.
Running/Kayaking/Biking
Swimming/Biking/Running
Running/Biking/Running
they're all inbred cousins

tunney

Keep the current subforum as part of A/R/T

RayCun wrote: »

The mongrel stuff would have to go with triathlon. It makes no sense to leave them with Athletics/Running, and there's not enough of a community to support a separate forum.
Running/Kayaking/Biking
Swimming/Biking/Running
Running/Biking/Running
they're all inbred cousins

Emmmm throwing a heavy ball.
Lobbing a point stick in a field.
Jumping over a bar.
Playing in a sand pit.

Even AR already has aload of toss in it you should really take the adventure racing too.

RayCun

tunney wrote: »

Emmmm throwing a heavy ball.
Lobbing a point stick in a field.
Jumping over a bar.
Playing in a sand pit.

Even AR already has aload of toss in it you should really take the adventure racing too.

Hardly anyone does field events in A/R/T, so setting up a Field events forum would be even worse than trying to set up (mongrel) Adventure races in their own forum. During the winter it would be 90210 talking to himself about the T&F season in Oz, and in the summer maybe two or three people doing track&field in Ireland.
And the people that do take part in field events, also take part in track events - they're all runners too.
(Plus, the discussion of elite athletics is as much about field as about track.)

Similarly, the people who take part in Gaelforce-type ARs also do triathlon and duathlon. Not all of them, and not all triathletes do ARs, but there's a big crossover.

donothoponpop

Keep the current subforum as part of A/R/T

This has been going on for years. How hard is it to understand that Triathletes want their own forum, to discuss their own sport? Initially it was lumped in with marathon running, presumably because they are both endurance sports. Of course that led to problems when fast 10k runners with no interest in Tri, started posting and had to endure threads about TT bikes; or Triathletes had to suffer thread after thread from beginner marathoners. Why repeat that mistake by adding a diluting carbuncle of GF/Roar/AR, when its such a tiny overlapping set? Just do it right this time, recognize the large amount of Triathletes looking for a Triathlon forum, call it Triathlon, and worry about where to fit any variants after.

RayCun

donothoponpop wrote: »

Why repeat that mistake by adding a diluting carbuncle of GF/Roar/AR, when its such a tiny overlapping set?

Where else should they go?
Athletics/Running/GF/Roar/AR makes no sense as a forum
GF/Roar/AR would be a dead zone 90% of the year, and even in the summer wouldn't be that busy. No-one would use it because no-one is there.
Triathlon/Duathlon/GF/Roar/AR isn't perfect, but has a lot more logic.

RacoonQueen

Is it just me that doesn't give a crap whether tri has it's own forum or not? Who cares whether it's a standalone forum or a subforum? Who cares if it's lumped in with running and theres some threads about a 5 hour marathon and a one hour 10k? Who cares if theres a couple of threads about adventure races in the tri forum? Don't like thread. Don't read thread. If this is your biggest problem in life lads, any of you want to swap lives with me?!

Seriously, tri has it's own subforum now. Be happy.

There's a fair few people who've done triathlons on here who probably wouldn't have if the information wasn't accessible because it's been in with running. Yourself included possibly DP. Just sayin' like....

donothoponpop

Keep the current subforum as part of A/R/T

RacoonQueen wrote: »

Is it just me that doesn't give a crap whether tri has it's own forum or not? Who cares whether it's a standalone forum or a subforum?

That's what the poll is for. Currently, over 70% or respondents appear to give a care enough to vote Tri gets a standalone forum.

But I don't think anyone is making out its a huge life issue or anything; as you said yourself earlier, it's just the internet.

nerraw1111

There was no problem with Gaelforce etc being in the events forum, don’t see why it can’t revert to that. We’re talking about a dozen threads over the course of the year.

The training/questions will be similar to tri, maybe the odd ‘best swimming armbands’ question, but they’ll overlap.

Oryx

You didn't put a Don't care/Atari jaguar option.

RayCun

griffin100 wrote: »

How do you split the training logs between Tri logs and the the logs of those that can't swim?

On this question - I had a look at some other forums, and we could do something like this
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=17
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=164

So, if a new Triathlon/Duathlon/Adventure Racing forum is created, you could have an Events subforum (if you wanted), a link to the Training Logs subforum (in A/R), and a link to the Gear and Equipment subforum (in A/R). Nobody would have to choose which side of the wire to train on...

tunney

Keep the current subforum as part of A/R/T

RayCun wrote: »

On this question - I had a look at some other forums, and we could do something like this
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=17
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=164

So, if a new Triathlon/Duathlon/Adventure Racing forum is created, you could have an Events subforum (if you wanted), a link to the Training Logs subforum (in A/R), and a link to the Gear and Equipment subforum (in A/R). Nobody would have to choose which side of the wire to train on...

I would really prefer a split in the gear at the very least as well. Most of the advice from the "runners" on ART on gear (runners and watches) is fairly horrific.

shotgunmcos

Keep the current subforum as part of A/R/T

A/R/T as a whole is the 3rd or 4th busiest Forum on the Sports side of Boards. Splitting out a separate Forum would not dilute it too much IMO. It would more than likely still be in the top 10 in terms of traffic.

I'd drop the 'duathlon' too and call it 'Triathlon/Adventure Racing'. Duathletes will check out a Triathlon Forum and Enduro can build his own little sandcastle for 'proper' Adventure Racing within that Forum I might even give one a go after I do a few mongrels

Sure its not currently broken as Griffin100 says and what is the point of a separate Forum? Good question and each to their own opinion

I'd happily move my Log to a Tri/AR logs section and I'd also happily wander back to the A/R Forum as I do like running too The sub forum works fine but its still just a piggy back on A/R/T and as such cannot have its own events, gear, buy & sell etc...

Nwm2

Keep the current subforum as part of A/R/T

Oryx wrote: »

The elitist attitude does bother me, in all the forums though. Its not that I dont think you can tell someone they are slow, or should aim higher, of course you can. (Im slow ffs) But at the same time it needs to be done with tact. You dont want to alienate people. I didnt get talked down to (much -the tactless ones know who they are... ) when I posted here first, but at the same time I established pretty quickly how low in the rankings I was. Its just a close thing between showing someone what they need to work towards, and making them feel like not good enough to post. That doesnt happen here, but I wouldnt want anyone to feel like this is a clique that only the best can join.

The best triathlon forum on the web is also the most elitist...

drquirky

tunney wrote: »

I would really prefer a split in the gear at the very least as well. Most of the advice from the "runners" on ART on gear (runners and watches) is fairly horrific.

TBH this is the type of attitude that turns people off tri. This idiotic fake hardman crap is so tedious. Listen dude, there are a bunch of people you call "runners"on the athletics forum who could drop your ass in the dust on a run and make you weep for your mommy. I've seen your times and guess what, they ain't that good. Get over yourself.

tunney

Keep the current subforum as part of A/R/T

drquirky wrote: »

TBH this is the type of attitude that turns people off tri. This idiotic fake hardman crap is so tedious. Listen dude, there are a bunch of people you call "runners"on the athletics forum who could drop your ass in the dust on a run and make you weep for your mommy. I've seen your times and guess what, they ain't that good. Get over yourself.

And I've never pretending to be anything other than sh1t. I'm a computer nerd that likes a bit of exercise and I am happy with that.

However the typical triathlete is usually more knowledgeable about gear than runners. If triathletes were honest its the gadgets and gizmos that are half the attraction. Go have a look at the recent gear thread on water bottle carriers for running - see when and with whom this thread descended into "Oh I sellotape a 7-up bottle to my back with some sellotape" and similar.

Triathletes like gadgets and gear, compensating some might say. The AR gear sub forum is tedious and boring, any questions ultimately end up on a tangent.

drquirky

tunney wrote: »

And I've never pretending to be anything other than sh1t. I'm a computer nerd that likes a bit of exercise and I am happy with that.

However the typical triathlete is usually more knowledgeable about gear than runners. If triathletes were honest its the gadgets and gizmos that are half the attraction. Go have a look at the recent gear thread on water bottle carriers for running - see when and with whom this thread descended into "Oh I sellotape a 7-up bottle to my back with some sellotape" and similar.

Triathletes like gadgets and gear, compensating some might say. The AR gear sub forum is tedious and boring, any questions ultimately end up on a tangent.

Fair enough- I can respect that- perhaps I misunderstood your original tone. If so I apologize.

baza1976

Merge everything back to A/R/T

drquirky wrote: »

Fair enough- I can respect that- perhaps I misunderstood your original tone. If so I apologize.

I voted to keep it as it is, but after reading some posts here today I say let this ship sail. Besides MCOS training logs I won't miss much else