New York Giants Thread

Beefy78

I think they go WR and someone who can play that right side of the OL that you mention.

Personally I'd love us to take Jack in round two and the best pass rusher available round three but I'm not going to beat myself up over Jack again. I've come to terms with him being a Pro-Bowler somewhere else.

krustydoyle

I honestly don't know how I feel about that pick

Fair enough things ahead of us didn't fall into place so I'm willing to accept the Apple pick

Reese has to be gone if it doesn't work out

HigginsJ

I watched the draft on fast forward this morning, really really surprised by that pick, better than taking Hargreaves but if we were to go corner William Jackson III really ought to have been the guy.

I wonder how tempted they were by Tunsil? Surely the guy was worth the risk at 10 considering we are pretty much win now and rookie corners usually get cleaned out alot.

I think at this point Jack will have to wait till the very late rounds before anyone touches him.

Ragland wouldn't be terrible in the 2nd but I would love to go WR. Tyler Boyd or my boy Michael Thomas would be ideal.

glued

If Eli Apple was the highest player on the board at #10 then Reese should just pack his things already. He may turn out to be a good player but completely unimpressed, yet again, with JR's draft strategy.

Beefy78

I've read suggestions that the Bucs had Apple lined up for #11

HigginsJ

glued wrote: »

If Eli Apple was the highest player on the board at #10 then Reese should just pack his things already. He may turn out to be a good player but completely unimpressed, yet again, with JR's draft strategy.

Apple doesn't look a natural fit in the slot, neither are Jenkins or DRC. You could have argued Hargreaves would have been a better fit (would not have liked that pick either) With the way things fell it should have been Tunsil or Lawson.

It looks like a poor pick, the way Mayock was talking about him you'd have said he sounded like a 3rd round developmental player.

KrustyUCC

Marc Ross is really beginning to bug me

Q: If someone sees this as a reach, what would you say?
A: We’ve heard it before. We’ve taken other players that (were called) a reach. Nobody knows. If you get a dime for every expert, I could retire. Come on. Experts? People analyze. People have opinions. What’s it based on? Nobody has seen the tape. Nobody goes to practice. Nobody puts in the work like the scouts do. It’s easy to second-guess and pick and say get everybody’s pick right and tell them what they should do, but you’ve just got to put in the work and trust what you do.

People won't second guess you as much if you actually produced in the drafts

Our drafting is horrible so no notion why he is so smug about a highly questionable pick

HigginsJ

KrustyUCC wrote: »

Marc Ross is really beginning to bug me

Q: If someone sees this as a reach, what would you say?
A: We’ve heard it before. We’ve taken other players that (were called) a reach. Nobody knows. If you get a dime for every expert, I could retire. Come on. Experts? People analyze. People have opinions. What’s it based on? Nobody has seen the tape. Nobody goes to practice. Nobody puts in the work like the scouts do. It’s easy to second-guess and pick and say get everybody’s pick right and tell them what they should do, but you’ve just got to put in the work and trust what you do.

People won't second guess you as much if you actually produced in the drafts

Our drafting is horrible so no notion why he is so smug about a highly questionable pick

1st round picks are hard to miss on, the biggest complaint has got to be the mid to late round picks. Where are the contributors or steals that we see successful teams picking up?

Of the 30 picks from the 3rd round on since 2010 we have hit on how many players? Devon Kennard looks good, aside from that, nothing. I'm not setting the bar very high here either, it is a bunch of guys who barely saw a down in the NFL.

You might want to watch a bit more tape and attend a few more practises there Marc.

HigginsJ

As a point of reference the Seahawks from the 3rd onwards, have drafted

Walte Thurmond
Kam Chancellor
Malcolm Smith
Byron Maxwell
Richard Sherman
KJ Wright
JR Sweezy
Russell Wilson
Luke Wilson
Jeremy Lane

That's how you draft, that's why we are pissy

KrustyUCC

We do better with UDFA than draft from 1st round on

You should be able to get good players in the 3rd

These are our thirds in last few years
Owamagbe Odighizuwa
Jam Bromley
Damontre Moore
Jayron Hosley
Jerrel Jernigan

Contributions SFA

We got decent value out of Williams in 6th 2011 after that i'm looking

HigginsJ

KrustyUCC wrote: »

We do better with UDFA than draft from 1st round on

You should be able to get good players in the 3rd

These are our thirds in last few years
Owamagbe Odighizuwa
Jam Bromley
Damontre Moore
Jayron Hosley
Jerrel Jernigan

Contributions SFA

We got decent value out of Williams in 6th 2011 after that i'm looking

Williams was beyond mediocre really. Was a BC guy so TC stuck with him.

Yea those 3rd rounders are dreadful.

KrustyUCC

Williams was a system guy who was productive at BC but not able to run North and South in NFL

The BC thing is overblown. We only drafted 3 BC guys in all TC tenure

Snee and Kiwi worked out pretty well

Beefy78

Interesting that Shepard is a returner, as is the RB we signed a few weeks back. I think Harris is WR2 this season.

krustydoyle

Very interesting pick.. I'm liking it

Beefy78

Very good night's work

glued

Some interesting picks. Hopefully we'll pick up a LB and a RB somewhere along the line.

KrustyUCC

Mayock likened Shepard to Julian Edelman

Hopefully that assessment is accurate

Good insurance policy for Cruz

Bit on small size

Thompson I like the size and Interceptions

Knock on him is he misses tackles

Not ideal

KrustyUCC

Pick is in

B.J. Goodson LB Clemson

KrustyUCC

What in hell

5th Round

Paul Perkins RB UCLA

Not sure we needed another RB

1 pick left and still no help on O line

Beefy78

I don't think there was ever any intention to address the OL in the draft after the first round. And to be honest I'm not sure it was a high priority. Didn't they give up like the fifth least sacks last season? I appreciate the running game was terrible but I think the committee policy was the biggest single reason for that.

All that said, hopefully we trade for Anthony Davis.

glued

KrustyUCC wrote: »

What in hell

5th Round

Paul Perkins RB UCLA

Not sure we needed another RB

1 pick left and still no help on O line

We do need a RB tbh. Hopefully that means Williams will get cut.

Kylo Ren

R.I.P Eli.

Beefy78

Jordan Raanan ‏@JordanRaanan 5m5 minutes ago
Ben McAdoo on right side of OLine: 'The story has yet to be written' #giants

Jordan Raanan ‏@JordanRaanan 4m4 minutes ago
Asked if he wants to add OL to right side, McAdoo says 'if the right somebody shows up.' #giants

HigginsJ

So what does everyone make of the draft class as a whole? Outside of the Sheppard & Perkins picks it looks a pretty poor draft to me.

I just don't understand going DB in the 1st, it is far from our biggest need & in no mans world could Eli Apple be considered the best player on the board, even at his own position.

It's hard not to like the Sheppard pick, I'd have slightly preferred Michael Thomas but this kid looks like someone who will step in day 1 & be productive for a very long time. I'd be shocked if he had anything less than 60 catches this year.

Mykelle Thompson, Cooper Taylor, Bennett Jackson, Landon Collins & Nat Berhe. That's 6 draft picks spent on 5 safeties in the last 3 drafts before this one. Here is a suggestion, instead of wasting another pick, how about we try to develop these guys. The Darius Thompson pick on its own isn't terrible but in the context of the resources we are pumping into the position it brings player evaluation & development into serious question.

I don't know a tonne about Goodson but I have read that he is similar in style to Ragland but lacks even his athleticism or ability to read the game. If this guy ends up anything other than a special teamer I'd be surprised.

Love the Perkins pick. We can waive goodbye to Andre Williams & it protects against any regression from Jennings. Think by the start of the 2017 season this guy will be entrenched as our starter. Love the pick.

Again on Jerrell Adams I don't know a tonne, the reports give some hope but again we have shown no ability to develop raw guys.

wawaman

http://espn.go.com/blog/new-york-giants/post/_/id/46529/2016-new-york-giants-draft-picks-analysis-for-every-selection

Beefy78

I like all six picks

HigginsJ

Beefy78 wrote: »

I like all six picks

I love reading in depth analysis posts like this :pac:

glued

Not impressed with the draft but that's really based on the selection of Apple. A lot of the best writers are defending the pick but it seems to me as if we didn't expect Floyd to be gone at that point and JR has just pulled the trigger on Apple. I don't really like judging the picks at this point as the draft is a massive lottery.

Not sure why we drafted another project safety. Why not develop the guys we have and bring in a vet? I wouldn't be against Rolle coming back in as long as his snaps are limited.

Still need to pick up a RT and find a LB to be able to compete with Dallas IMO.

Morrison J

Giants were their own worst enemy with the Apple pick. It'd leaked before the draft that they liked Floyd and Conklin. No big coincidence that teams traded ahead of them so. I reckon they panicked and then took Apple who's a big reach imo.

They kind of saved themselves as the draft went on though. Love the Sterling Shepard pick and the Thompson and Adams picks were really good value too imo.

krustydoyle

Rolle is already letting it be known he wants to come back..


Edit: Reese just said he'll look into making him fit..

Prediction is that he won't make the final squad

HigginsJ

w Adams, S, Connecticut
Donte Deayon, CB, Boise State
Mykel Esiobu, WR, Lakeland
Michael Hunter, CB, Oklahoma State
Greg Milhouse Jr., DT, Campbell
Cedrick Lang, TE, UTEP
Melvin Lewis, DT, Kentucky
Roger Lewis, WR, Bowling Green
Ryan Malleck, TE, Virginia Tech
KJ Maye, WR, Minnesota
Romeo Okwara, DE, Notre Dame
Darius Powe, WR, California
Mike Rose, DE, NC State
Josh Woodrum, QB, Liberty

Here is our list of UDFA's to date, we have had some recent success with UDFA's in the last few years. Not terribly familiar with any of the players to be honest, might see if I can dig up a few scouting reports.

Beefy78

HigginsJ wrote: »

I love reading in depth analysis posts like this :pac:

Honestly though what do you need? All seem like clean guys with a lot of upside and I wouldn't count any of them out of making some sort of contribution this season.

Like most of the rest of you I can only go on some highlights and what I've read but Thompson seems a perfect fit alongside Collins, I can't wait to see Shepard out there making plays, I think the running back will get a shot to impress and is probably the long-term option there once Jennings & Vereen are gone and sounds like the tight end was a good value pick at a position where we're not that strong.

But ultimately history says that at least half of the picks will be busts and we won't know which half for a couple of years so I'll save the bulk of my analysis until then

Seems like a lot of the criticism is for the Apple pick. I believe them that he was the next name on their list so what can you do really than give them the benefit of the doubt? With Tunsil being there on the board it guarantees that this will be an ongoing topic, as will Hargreaves' progression at Tampa Bay. I heard Apple's former College coach on the radio over the weekend saying that the criticisms of him (too much hands, not watching the ball) were exactly what they were telling him to do as opposed to being his natural game and if he can't play that way in the NFL then we're going to need to wait and see what he can do. You assume that the Giants have done their homework on him.

Knex*

HigginsJ wrote: »

Romeo Okwara, DE, Notre Dame.

That's a Giant's Defensive End name if ever I've seen one.

Beefy78

Okwara sounds promising from what I've read. The UDFA receiver they picked up sounds a decent player too.

Here's a little piece on the Giants 2016 draft class. Hopefully it makes HigginsJ feel a little better

http://www.bigblueview.com/2016/5/1/11547918/2016-nfl-draft-review-new-york-giants-invictus-sterling-shepard-jerell-adams

HigginsJ

Beefy78 wrote: »

Okwara sounds very decent from what I've read. The UDFA receiver they picked up sounds a decent player too.

Here's a decent piece on the Giants 2016 draft class. Hopefully it makes HigginsJ feel a little better

http://www.bigblueview.com/2016/5/1/11547918/2016-nfl-draft-review-new-york-giants-invictus-sterling-shepard-jerell-adams

IT gave me a warm fizzy feeling inside :P Interesting read, I just can't get on board with all the picks.

I'd hate it to happen but the Sheppard pick is being so widely hailed as great that it is doomed to failure!!!

HigginsJ

HigginsJ wrote: »

w Adams, S, Connecticut
Donte Deayon, CB, Boise State
Mykel Esiobu, WR, Lakeland
Michael Hunter, CB, Oklahoma State
Greg Milhouse Jr., DT, Campbell
Cedrick Lang, TE, UTEP
Melvin Lewis, DT, Kentucky
Roger Lewis, WR, Bowling Green
Ryan Malleck, TE, Virginia Tech
KJ Maye, WR, Minnesota
Romeo Okwara, DE, Notre Dame
Darius Powe, WR, California
Mike Rose, DE, NC State
Josh Woodrum, QB, Liberty

Here is our list of UDFA's to date, we have had some recent success with UDFA's in the last few years. Not terribly familiar with any of the players to be honest, might see if I can dig up a few scouting reports.

So looking through the list most of these guys won't make it past rookie mini camp.

The best shots are Deayon at corner, Lewis at WR & Malleck at TE.

All 3 have plenty of upside with some obvious flaws (Deayon is small, Lewis is slow & Malleck is not a great blocker).

If I had to bet I would say that Deayon & Malleck end up on the practise squad which would be a successful UDFA class.

HigginsJ

Knex. wrote: »

That's a Giant's Defensive End name if ever I've seen one.

Can go one better for you, we have signed Helva Matungulu from Western Carolina. He is a 6'5, 294lb DT. He arrived in America in 2011 & was asked to join the team. He spent the 1st 2 years on the bench learning the rules. He was played on the O-Line and at TE before finally settling at DT.

To say this guy is a long shot is an understatement. He apparently ran the 40 in 4.94 seconds (a hair slower than Nkemdiche at similar size) which is decent moving for a guy his size. He has 31 tackles, 1 & 1/2 sacks along with 4 & 1/2 tackles for loss in the last 2 years.

wawaman

Today is the last Sunday without football until after the super bowl !! ����

krustydoyle

So did anyone watch last night???

I watched bits and pieces but one thing I came away with is Nassib hasn't improved an inch since he was traded.

Knex*

Yeah, watched the first half. Nassib was brutal, to be honest. He had the jitters, like a QB who's been shellshocked and doesn't trust anything. Bizarre to watch. He underthrew everything, had 2 INTs, 3 fumbles, and was just not at the races at all.

Shepard is as advertised. Absolute stud. Won pretty much every route, and if Eli was at QB he'd have had far more than his one catch. Apple is all action. Did well on D and was very active on special teams. Came off with a knee injury but reports are he'll be fine. Shepard also came off with a groin injury, but he's not even getting treatment for it now so its a nonissue.

Thompson at safety plays like a pro. He sets the D up and barks out orders and is a natural leader. You'd never think he was a rookie.

The first team d-line looks ridiculous. Vernon had a few hurries in limited snaps. I don't think teams are going to be able to run the ball against that line, its insane.

Giants D as a whole looked pretty good until midway through the 2nd. They hadn't even given up a first down until that point.

Andre Williams looked a totally different player, in the few snaps we saw of him. He's got a burst now, and looked promising. Perkins looked decent, despite fumbling a handoff.

Bobby Rainey had two fumbles to live up to his notoriously poor ball security reputation.

Newhouse didn't look great against the 1s, but the rest of the line seemed fine to me. Bobby Hart looked decent against the 2s, but the rest of the backups look fairly poor, unfortunately.

Magico Gonzalez

Giants O Line looking very weak against the Bills, cant get anything going at all on the ground. Not impressive.

KrustyUCC

I know it's the preseason but we are looking very very poor

Magico Gonzalez

KrustyUCC wrote: »

I know it's the preseason but we are looking very very poor

Kinda making the Bills look good. Run game looks bad, O Line looks loose and open. Lotta work to do for the Giants.

KrustyUCC

I'm having nightmares that the Oline will get Eli killed in the regular season

D looking poor too

Deayon is too small to make a roster

Itssoeasy

I've just seen the Giants score. I've not seen a minute of the game. Knex is it the bills being very good or are the Giants having a disaster.

KrustyUCC

I wouldn't recommend watching any of it

We are playing horrible

Getting beaten up on both sides of the ball

The only positive is Brad Wing which tells you how bad the rest are

krustydoyle

Imagine the worst performance we put in last year... Then double it.. Absolutely brutal

KrustyUCC

Real worry week 1 with Brown suspended too

Obarski not up to it

krustydoyle

I can't believe that 28 yard FG miss

No idea who the kicker will be wk 1 now

KrustyUCC

First preseason shut out since 2001 coming up