New York Giants Thread

krustydoyle

QB's go 6-21 for 69 yards..

Offense goes for a total of 166 yards

Beefy78

Just finished watching the game. Positives are that the D played ok - two TDs came off of turnovers and the offense just wouldn't let the defense get a breather.

The tight ends and OL are terrible. I felt a little sorry for Nassib that he wasn't getting any protection at all. If we can't run the ball and can't protect the QB this will be a horrible season.

Knex*

Watched the first quarter and a bit last night. Holy crap. It was like 2013 again, with Gilbride's offense not able to get anything going. No run game, insane pressure on the QB. Just brutal.

Not the most encouraging game to watch, to say the least.

Flowers looks like he can't handle the LT position at all. Newhouse is Newhouse. Larry Donnell had some of the most embarrassing attempts to block that I've seen from a TE in a while.

Beefy78

At least Donnell tried.... Tye didn't even think to try to block on the Nassibe fumble play.

Knex*

Beefy78 wrote: »

At least Donnell tried.... Tye didn't even think to try to block on the Nassibe fumble play.

I didn't get that far. Not sure I can force myself to go back and watch it either.

Mike Solari definitely has his work cut out to get the blocking in shape for two weeks time.

HigginsJ

Hey guys,

Been a bit out of touch with the Giants for the past 2 months. Can someone give me a synopsis of training camp, pre-season and injuries to date.

Knex*

HigginsJ wrote: »

Hey guys,

Been a bit out of touch with the Giants for the past 2 months. Can someone give me a synopsis of training camp, pre-season and injuries to date.

Hope all is well man.

I'll get something written up either today or tomorrow.

Edit: Will be tomorrow.

HigginsJ

Knex. wrote: »

Hope all is well man.

I'll get something written up either today or tomorrow.

Edit: Will be tomorrow.

Thanks Knex, all is good.

Knex*

Alrighty,

If the other gents want to add to anything I've said, or missed, it would be much appreciated!

I'll start with Ben McAdoo.

All reports from players and reporters are super positive about McAdoo. Aside from clocks being 5 mins ahead still, he's changed everything. Meetings are earlier and shorter. More time spent on fundamentals, music plays all the time, and he's geared a lot of his work towards the "millennials".

Huge focus on training smart, both on the field and in the weight room, as so far, Giants look as healthy as you can hope for.

Rookies

Eli Apple - Personal opinion after the Dolphins game and some training clips, but I think he's gonna be a stud. He's a baller. Flies around the place on special teams, physical at the line when playing outside, and seems to already have some great coverage skills. Its so ideal that he gets to break himself in slowly, taking reps off DRC, and not get thrown into the fire. In two years time I think we'll be very happy here.

He is putting a lot of effort into getting his hands sorted at the line, as he has a tendency to grab hold of the WR, which is fine in college but will get you flagged in the NFL. Picked a knee injury up in that first preseason game but he's fine again.

Sterling Sheppard - The hype train for this man is off the charts. He runs routes like a pro, and even when they ask OBJ about him, he can barely contain his excitement. He won on nearly every route in that 1st preseason game as well, and had an outstanding diving catch to boot. Nassib had a mare though which stopped him even getting targets, despite him killing CBs at the top of his route. I think he'll be a big contributor.

Darian Thompson - I'm wary of sounding too positive about the rookie class thus far, but he's come in and instantly commanded the FS starting berth. He knows football. McAdoo and Spags have said how he gets all his assignments right, and barks out orders to his teammates like a seasoned pro. Landon Collins has been big in praise for him, too. That said, he hasn't made any big plays thus far, in games or in practice, but he hasn't given up any either. He was a ballhawk in college so it'll be interesting to see how he develops.

BJ Goodson - not seen a whole pile of him, but the reports have been good. Apparently, when he tackles, he runs through you. Howard Cross, ex Giant TE, said that he doesn't even want to be near him when he tackles, let alone be the guy he hits. He'll likely get limited playing time but there's already talk of him being a starter by the end of the year. He's behind Brinkley, who played well for us last year, and Robinson (MLB picked up from Washington. He's great in coverage but not so good against the run. Injury prone too. The opposite to Brinkley)

Not seen enough from Perkins, the RB. He looks good in space and a few Giant players have tipped him to shine, but he's buried a bit on the depth chart.

Jerrell Adams, big TE, is seeing very limited snaps. Could end up on Practice Squad.

Key New Signings

Vernon - Holy **** what a stud. He destroys in practice, he's tearing it up in preseason, and he's commanded a leadership role already. Stays behind doing conditioning drills everyday, and JPP has started joining him for extra sprints etc. Looks the real deal.

Jenkins - He's what we knew, really. Good in man coverage, aggressive, has a big play and a mistake in him. He seems to really want to take on a big role for the Giants though. Nice to see himself and Vernon seem so motivated.

Snacks - He's instantly my favourite non Eli Giants. His background story is amazing. His work ethic is amazing, and you can't run the ball his direction. Himself and Hankins are a near on 700lbs wall of big blue. Historically he's had knee issues, that I didn't know about, but he says its the best he's felt in a while. He started preseason on PUP as a precaution, I believe.

Offensive Line

Been a bit of a crapshow the first two weeks in preseason. Ultimately, there's no depth at all, aside from Bobby Hart. Jerry looks improved to me, and he did a lot of work in the offseason that really impressed Richburg.

Newhouse is the same. Backup quality, really, but he's serviceable if Eli gets the ball out quick.

Not liking how Flowers is progressing at all, unfortunately. Still raw in his technique and I'm pegging him for a holding call every game, tbh.

Pass protection: Interior - Sold. Exterior - Weak.

We still can't run the ball.

Extra

Andre Wisdom - looks totally different. Took up martial arts, dropped a bunch of weight, and looks a lot more explosive to me. McAdoo seems impressed and he's right behind Jennings in the pecking order. Some people are dismayed by this, but I genuinely am a little optimistic by what I'm seeing. OL needs to help our RBs out more, though.

Roger Lewis - UDFA that fell due to rape allegations in college. He looks a player and I'd be shocked if he doesn't see a fair few snaps throughout the season. He gets his share of first team reps already.

Geremy Davis - WR drafted last year. Progressing solidly, and Giants like what they see. He's a big body, torso like a washing machine, kinda guy. Getting his fair share of 1st team reps too.

Cruz - A week ago I'd have said forget about him, but he's had two great days at practice, by all accounts, and will play v the Jets this weekend. Still not raising my hopes, but we'll know more Monday morning.

Owa - 2nd string DE and is in on Nascar packages. Has some explosive plays in him. Hopefully kicks on from his rookie year that was ruined with injury.

Jonathon Cassilas - Has had an oustanding camp and preseason as outside linebacker thus far. JT Thomas, who I really like, is only back from injury so may be a cut casualty considering his salary and not being able to practice thus far.

Ones to watch - Defensive Ends, Romeo Okwara and Stansly Maponga.

HigginsJ

Thanks Knex, you have me all excited now. Delighted that Vernon is working so hard and that it is rubbing off on JPP. Will try to catch some of the Jets game now at the weekend.

I was reading that Josh Norman was spouting off about OBJ again, has he came out with anything in response?

Knex*

HigginsJ wrote: »

Thanks Knex, you have me all excited now. Delighted that Vernon is working so hard and that it is rubbing off on JPP. Will try to catch some of the Jets game now at the weekend.

I was reading that Josh Norman was spouting off about OBJ again, has he came out with anything in response?

Before training camp Beckham had responded to a journalist saying that he made Norman famous. That Norman needs him to be relevant. Not ideal, really.

Then Norman came out again this time and said something the other day, and when Beckham was quizzed on it, he just refused to answer. Said if there were any questions about Jennings charity work, or what Herzlich does for the community, he'd be happy to answer them. Lesson learnt, thankfully.

Just on Beckham, I've noticed that he's learnt a new move. He lines a CB up who's in off coverage and pulls this kinda triple move that involves dragging his leg and then exploding out of the break. Its phenomenal.

That man looks absolutely scary in camp this year. Every interview they ask him about his goals, and he just flatline answers, "Super Bowl 51".

HigginsJ

Knex. wrote: »

Before training camp Beckham had responded to a journalist saying that he made Norman famous. That Norman needs him to be relevant. Not ideal, really.

Then Norman came out again this time and said something the other day, and when Beckham was quizzed on it, he just refused to answer. Said if there were any questions about Jennings charity work, or what Herzlich does for the community, he'd be happy to answer them. Lesson learnt, thankfully.

Just on Beckham, I've noticed that he's learnt a new move. He lines a CB up who's in off coverage and pulls this kinda triple move that involves dragging his leg and then exploding out of the break. Its phenomenal.

That man looks absolutely scary in camp this year. Every interview they ask him about his goals, and he just flatline answers, "Super Bowl 51".

Great to hear. I was listening to First Take and even Kellerman was pointing out that OBJ burnt him in the game last year. Kellerman reckons that OBJ is now the one inside Norman's head. I really didn't like the crap about a hit being out on OBJ. **** like that really should bring some sort of ban or fine Norman's way.

Knex*

Yeah, the league doesn't need another bounty gate type scandal. Odell is just too good, though. He definitely destroyed Norman last year.

Read a breakdown before and it had a 90% success rate for OBJ v Norman in that game. Closest receiver to him v Norman all year was Brown or Julio at about 55%, or something like that.

I know Beckham was really disappointed with how none of his team mates showed any fight or stood up for him in that Panthers game last year. Preston Parker in his rookie year was great for that. In that Rams game he was straight over to smack into the people who had the hit out on OBJ.

If there is a hit out on him in games this year, I hope the team shows more fight and has his back. Can't let it escalate to him spearing Norman's head either, though, obviously.

wawaman

Knex, you have got my hopes up again now. Didnt watch the Bills game after reading the comments about it

Knex*

wawaman wrote: »

Knex, you have got my hopes up again now. Didnt watch the Bills game after reading the comments about it

I'm normally a cynic as well!

I will say, I wouldn't be putting the house on a playoff appearance, or anything, but I definitely think that this team is trending up.

Our first team D in preseaon has actually looked impressive. Took the Dolphins to half way through the 2nd quarter to even get a first down. Similar to the OL, depth is the issue in places. I think with the D, however, there's so much youth there that there's good promise. The OL doesn't have that except for Bobby Hart.

If our D can improve to help us keep .50, or higher, through the first four games or so, then I think we've a great shot at the playoffs. The offense will be in sync by then, I imagine, and Odell and Eli will win games on their own, as we all know. Its about time that other people stepped up to the plate.

The first half of this Jets game will tell us a lot.

Beefy78

I didn't know Snacks had injury issues. Hasn't he played pretty much every game since he came into the League?

Knex*

Beefy78 wrote: »

I didn't know Snacks had injury issues. Hasn't he played pretty much every game since he came into the League?

Yeah, pretty much. He had some procedures done on his knee a few years back and it bothers him from time to time. Its manageable though.

https://twitter.com/JordanRaanan/status/760518797182861313?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw

The left knee that caused him trouble in recent days and over the past few years wasn’t a problem.

"This is probably the first practice with no pain in probably about two years," said Harrison, who signed a five-year, $46.25 million deal this offseason with the Giants after spending the first four years of his career with the Jets.

From here:

http://www.espn.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/id/208586/giants-dt-damon-harrison-off-pup-list-feels-better-than-he-did-with-jets

HigginsJ

So...... No Superbowl run then yea??

Knex*

HigginsJ wrote: »

So...... No Superbowl run then yea??

Didn't get to see it last night, so will have to catch up tonight, hopefully. How did it go?

Beefy78

It was hard to watch at times. The OL has massively regressed. Every time a running back got the ball there were two or more defenders in the backfield on top of them. The first team offense is a major concern right now.

Positive points were that the defense looks legit. The bulk of points conceded throughout preseason by the first team have been off of turnovers. JPP seems to be tackling much better than I thought he would be able to. King and Nassib both did really well for the first touchdown.

The Jets looked much the better team sadly.

Beefy78

This sums it up:

"The starting unit ran 29 plays, and none of them were contested further than the Giants' own 46-yard line.

In eight series, the Giants' first-team offense ...

• Scored zero points.

• Ran 29 plays for a total of 61 yards. That's 2.1 yards-per-play.

• Rushed the ball 13 times for six yards. That's 0.46 yards-per-carry.

• Had three first downs.

• Saw Eli Manning get knocked around frequently.

• Finished each series with a punt, one of which was blocked.

And those numbers, as jarring as they are, feel somewhat inadequate in describing just how poor the Giants were offensively. "

http://www.nj.com/giants/index.ssf/2016/08/giants_takeaways_vs_jets.html#incart_river_index

krustydoyle

Brought back Will Beatty today... 1 yr deal

Knex*

Just seeing that, yeah. Happy with that, tbh. If he's anyway healthy he'll be at least a solid player.

HigginsJ

It's a very sensible move, if fit, he will be starting really.

wawaman

Please don't happen again, please don't happen again

wawaman

A wins a wins a win

ssshhh123

Happy with a win on opening day I could get use to this

Knex*

A win, and something positive to build upon. Our running game was far more impressive than theirs. Who'd have thought that?

krustydoyle

Vernon and Harrison were excellent..

Absolutely delighted with that win

Beefy78

Zeke Elliot is a **** Andre Williams.

I'm buzzing, not sure how I'll sleep. I'm made up for Cruuuuuuuuuuuuuuuz

HigginsJ

Really unimpressed with that last night. You would think with a rookie QB/RB combo we could force a few turnovers but Prescott had it easy until the Redzone, our coverage was awful. Run D was outstanding, considering that O-Line would make me look good it was a very good effort. Vernon & Harrison were great.

Nice to see Cruz back, looked good. With Shepard also looking decent we have a potentially outstanding WR group. High praise coming for Shepard but I thought it was OBJ catching that TD the way he went up for it. Good to see Jennings getting the majority of the workload and only Vereen subbing in. Hope we don't go back to the ridiculous running back by committee we had last year.

Good Eli/Bad Eli was out in show again. The interception for me was all Eli, I know Shepard had slightly given up on the route but that was well before Eli threw it. The lateral to Jennings was begging for trouble, very lucky to get away with it. His pass for Shepard's TD was also underthrown. He has some great throws mixed in as well. I'd be very worried that he was under pressure from that D, is our O-Line really that bad?

Sure a win is great but that Cowboys team is no great shakes (especially with all their drug suspensions on D). It is not a great performance to start the year and if Williams had his head on straight we likely would have lost.

Beefy78

Eli arguably shouldn't have thrown the pick but the ball was out before he knew that Shep wasn't where he was supposed to be. It's high risk having a check-out throw like that but the Giants are putting it on the WR and not the QB.

I think you're being a bit harsh - Witton killed us as always and they were dinking and dunking it underneath but the Defense stood firm when it counted. Elliot won't have a tougher match all season, IMO, and Vernon & JPP got plenty of pressure on Prescott even if there weren't any sacks. The OL will have tougher tests but they did better than anyone could have hoped and the only sacks were where Eli held onto the ball for too long.

Apple and Thompson both looked great, DRC and Jenkins had Dez in their pockets, Collins looks a different player to last season.

If Williams gets out of bounds it is still almost certainly a win. Would have been a 67(?) yard field goal attempt considering the only route out of bounds he had was laterally from where he got the ball.

Knex*

All valid points, but I do think the INT has to go 50% on Shepard. If it was Randle we'd be killing him.

The amount of holds the Dallas line got away with was honestly ridiculous, and that certainly impeded the sack numbers. Also Snacks had a clear sack but somehow thought Prescott had thrown the ball away, so just shoved him lightly so as to avoid a roughing the passer call. He realised too late that Dak had actually pump faked. Bad mistake, but understandable.

I think Spags and the D made some decent adjustments in 2nd half that allowed us to actually get our D into the game, but I am still worried about our ability to stop those passes underneath. TEs and slot receivers will still be our achilles. Kelvin Sheppard is far from a polished MLB. Thought Keenan Robinson did well in coverage in the 2nd half when called upon though, and when Darian Thompson started getting reps it was noticeable. Berhe is an absolute missile in run coverage, but he's not a free safety. Collins and our secondary in general were decent enough last night, I thought, and Jonathon Cassilas did quite well. We kept Dez to 8 yards, or something. Not to be sniffed at.

Willing to let the poor pass rush slide for the time being due to the standard of the Dallas OL, and also the holds. Man, I honestly can't get over those holds and how they weren't called. Absolutely blatant some of them.

Key takeaway for me: We kept Dallas to about 3.5 yards a carry last night, and averaged almost 5 yards ourselves. That's not to be sniffed at all.


Edit: Here's the stat line

Rashad Jennings 18 75 4.2
Shane Vereen 6 38 6.3

Giants 24 113 4.7


Ezekiel Elliott 20 51 2.5
Alfred Morris 7 35 5.0
Dak Prescott 2 12 6.0
Keith Smith 1 3 3.0

Cowboys 30 101 3.4

Beefy78

I was glad that Alfred Morris didn't get the ball more.

tgdaly

I can see some of everyone's points here. Only saw the first 2 and a bit of the third quarter, but my opinion would be;

1. Defense looks much improved. I know it was a rookie qb and rb and it's definitely disappointing that we couldn't get any turnovers or sacks, but let's not forget that Dallas o-line is miles and away the best line in the league (the guys on commentary even went as far as to describe it as the best unit in the league) so sacks would always be hard to come by.

2. Running game looks a lot better. Definitely think Jennings should be the bell cow but Vereen still has a big part to play in the passing game.

3. Passing game will only get better as the year goes on. Cruz will get his sharpness back, Shepard will only grow, throw in Beckham, Donnell and Vereen out of the backfield and I think there are a lot of good weapons there. A lot will depend on the o-line. Didn't look that bad what I seen last night but definitely harder assignments ahead

wawaman

Wasn't pretty to say the least but we are 2-0. Now for a week of obj/Norman nonsense

Knex*

Must win game for Washington as well, next week.

Thought Eli played pretty well today, despite our struggles. Great to see Shepard step up. Was very impressed with our D as well.

We've given ourselves a decent platform to build from now.

Beefy78

A win is a win. It wasn't pretty but I think someone will get a pasting from this offense soon. Eli played well.

derm0j073

I'm cautiously optimistic about this season after those first two games. We look fairly well organised both sides of the ball. We've looked good defending the red zone and Eli has plenty of options going forward. I'm not sold on our running game but all things considered I'm a happy man, after that pre season I wasn't expecting a 2-0 start.

HigginsJ

Really need the win now next week to set us up for later in the year as we have 2 tough road trips against the Vikes & Pack after this. Also would give us a great leg up in the division race

Knex*

Not looking forward to the Vikings game at all, and Eli usually has a nightmare against them, for whatever reason.

Packers I think we could actually win. McAdoo surely has some great insight into them, you would think, and their offense is still looking very off. Rodgers could have easily have been intercepted multiple times last night.

Win two of the next three games, and you'd have to be very optimistic for the playoffs. Redskins will be bringing the heat, however, as its a must win game for them.

Beefy78

Just watched the Vikings game form last night and yeah that one will be tough. I think their corners can be got at, which is something, but their pass-rushers will be licking their lips at the thought of attack our OL.

krustydoyle

Safety Thompson out for a few weeks after a knee injury yesterday

HigginsJ

krustydoyle wrote: »

Safety Thompson out for a few weeks after a knee injury yesterday

Oh thats a real shame, he looks like he could be very good. Himself & Collins could be a great safety tandem

glued

HigginsJ wrote: »

Oh thats a real shame, he looks like he could be very good. Himself & Collins could be a great safety tandem

I agree. Collins is looking very good. Flowers footwork was quite decent for a change yesterday too. And when is Odell going to catch those easy TDs?

Janoris Jenkins is definitely my favourite free agent signing. We've not had a set of corners like this for a good while!

Beefy78

HigginsJ wrote: »

Oh thats a real shame, he looks like he could be very good. Himself & Collins could be a great safety tandem

Different Thompson. It is Mykkele Thompson who is out for a couple of weeks.

Tristram

How is Vernon looking?

Beefy78

He has looked good. Probably better defending the run than I was expecting. He doesn't stop working. Didn't get as much pressure on Brees though as he did on Dak the week before.

Tbh all of the big free agents have been great. I'm a bit in love with Snacks Harrison.

Knex*

krustydoyle wrote: »

Safety Thompson out for a few weeks after a knee injury yesterday

Damn. Collins gets the reigns loosened a bit when he's on the field, as they sit DT as the single high safety and allow Collins to blitz. Was great at it yesterday when called upon.

That'll hurt us a bit. At least Berhe seems to be doing decent, and he's a monster against the run, so hopefully we'll get by. Hopefully we get DT back by Green Bay.

Knex*

Somehow missed that it was Mykkel Thompson injured, not Darian! Harsh, but if you had to pick one to be injured, it would be Mykkel. Thankfully it doesn't look serious.