New York Giants Thread

HigginsJ

Beefy78 wrote: »

We're in a good position in terms of starters however I think I'm right in saying that only BJ Goodson of the current roster is contracted for 2018, and Goodson doesn't have a career start yet. I'd expect at least one player to be drafted there.0

The more I think about it the more worried I get about things after this season coming, what with the contracts that will be up on the OL and the lack of any linebackers on the roster coupled with what you'd have to assume will be a decline from the likes of Eli and Marshall plus the loss of DRC I wonder if our window really is just this season coming.

We are well built for the next 3-4 years, aside from Eli. OBJ & Sterling are an outstanding WR duo, the o-line is lacking a LT obviously but aside from that it is strong.

The D-line is a beast, and in the secondary we have 2 guys who are already among the best at their positions and Apple's rookie year gives you great hope.

The contracts of Pugh, Richburg & OBJ are going to be huge obviously but with the cap continuing to go up & if you took out Eli's contract you are in a great spot.

This has to be make or break year for Eli, he looks done to me. He throws so many lame duck passes it is unreal. He is being bailed out a stupid rate by OBJ. He will have possibly the best WR corp in the NFL this year with possibly the best D in the NFL. It is all there for him.

Knex*

Yeah, if Eli doesn't perform as a top 15 QB this year, then he's done I would think. The fact we need to resign the likes of Richburg, Pugh, OBJ etc will not work in his favour if he can't be productive.

His deep ball and inability to step into his throws for a big stretch of last year is certainly a worry. It can't all be because of Flowers and the OL. I do think he needs a good TE though, almost as much as we need an improvement at that LT spot.

I also think that talent wise, Giants have the platform of a staple playoff team for a few years. QB is really the question though. If Eli can't last 3 years at a high level, or we can't strike lucky with a QB, we're not going to be competitive.

I'm in favour of drafting a QB in every draft, or every 2nd draft, till pretty much the end of time - similar to the Patriots. You're going to get at least a tradeable prospect from time to time.

HigginsJ

Knex. wrote: »

I'm in favour of drafting a QB in every draft, or every 2nd draft, till pretty much the end of time - similar to the Patriots. You're going to get at least a tradeable prospect from time to time.

Couldn't agree with you more, we need to do a bit of a job in promoting them & building a bit of interest. The Nassib thing was poor, from the comments that we hope he never plays for us to zero reports during the off-season of great progress etc. Even if it is nonsense you need to build them up.

Drafting a QB late and often is no harm I would say, considering the importance of the position you need cover. Just look at what happened the Raiders in the playoffs last year and what happened the Pats when Brady was out.

Beefy78

I just don't see Eli going anywhere any time soon regardless of his level of play, which is why I can't see how his contract can be taken out of consideration when talking about Richburg & Pugh. I think Eli is here for another two years regardless. What are we going to do? Cut him?

HigginsJ

Beefy78 wrote: »

I just don't see Eli going anywhere any time soon regardless of his level of play, which is why I can't see how his contract can be taken out of consideration when talking about Richburg & Pugh. I think Eli is here for another two years regardless. What are we going to do? Cut him?

Cut him and you save $10 million if done in 2018 or $17 million in 2019 so things are in the teams favour from that standpoint.

That said you would find it very hard to cut him but let's say he gets an injury this season & Geno outperforms him (not a ludicrous statement) then what do you do? We also need to get ready for 2 years time when Eli is out of contract, a highly regarded QB is needed this year or next to give them a little time.

McAdoo should have been a godsend for Eli but apart from an initial step forward things have continued to be more bad Eli than good Eli.

Beefy78

I doubt Geno makes the 53 tbh

HigginsJ

Beefy78 wrote: »

I doubt Geno makes the 53 tbh

Really, pretty much no one else even if we take a rookie. He would be of the better backups in the league

KrustyUCC

I'm hoping Marshall will be a security blanket for Eli this year

Double team OBJ and it gives Marshall 1 on 1

For the draft I hope other teams by pass OT so we have the choice

Lots of mocks have us getting Bolles

Bit much to hope Ramczyk is still there at 23

NFL mock draft live had us taking Evan Ingram from Ole Miss

He looks an interesting prospect

Give Eli a TE and Shep over the middle with OBJ and Marshall

Should take pressure off

Knex*

Only worry about Engram is that he's more like a wide out than he is a Tight End, and with OBJ and Shep, I'm not sure Giants will want to opt in that direction. He does get compared to Jordan Reed a lot though.

Issue there is that with our OL worry, we probably need a TE who can put their hand in the dirt in order for them to really be that blanket for Eli. Signing the blocking TE from the Vikings will help there, but I'm not at all sure on his pass catching ability. Seemed fairly nonexistent in Minnesota.

I've no idea about the tackles in this draft really. Nothing sounds promising. Cam Robinson seems massively projected as a RT, and considering that's where many think Flowers should be, its not an inspiring pick. Bolles seems the most polished, but he's older. I've heard people mention you need the right scheme for him also.

Ramczyk just doesn't seem to have any 'wow' factor or hype around him, but to be fair, in recent years a lot of the linemen that have, haven't really lived up to it. I've heard people question his love for the game as well.

I do think LT is our biggest need in the entire roster, so if they think Ramczyk is the guy, fair enough. Its just that I also think a 3 down TE would really extend Eli's career and boost this offense if our current crop of linemen can improve on last year and give us at least average production in the pass and run game.

If the front office can have faith in Flowers no longer being a holding turnstile, it gives us so much more options, flexibility and value at 23.

Current needs I would go:

1) LT
2) TE
3) LB
4) DT
4) RB
5) RT/RG
6) DE

Some of the ordering is probably interchangeable a bit, but that's my general thoughts on it.

KrustyUCC

"If the front office can have faith in Flowers no longer being a holding turnstile, it gives us so much more options, flexibility and value at 23."

True but not sure anyone can have faith there as the improvement people though Flowers had from year 1 to 2 never materialised

krustydoyle

Looks like Blount is close to signing according to rapoport

Beefy78

HigginsJ wrote: »

Really, pretty much no one else even if we take a rookie. He would be of the better backups in the league

They like Josh Johnson I think. I think we'll draft one and then Smith & Johnson will go down to pre-season. Johnson knows the system, knows the players and was just signed to a two year deal (Geno was signed to a one year deal).

We'll see. Maybe they'll keep both.

HigginsJ

krustydoyle wrote: »

Looks like Blount is close to signing according to rapoport

Reported a few places now, I'm a bit meh about it considering he is unlikely to be that cheap. I'd rather wait till after Thursday in case we can get a back we like somewhere in the middle rounds.

I havent seen a tonne of Blount but from what I know he is a 2 down power back. They are dime a dozen. If the Pats think Rex Burkhead & Mike Gillislee are better options then I'd be wary. Also has Blount produced anywhere other than NE?

Knex*

On the Pats Mike Gilislee thing, I actually quite liked what I saw from him last year. Wouldn't surprise me to see him have a big year for the Pats.

Not too sure about Blunt either, but we can do with the experience in our RB unit and he can make the tough yards, which we certainly lack.

KrustyUCC

from what little i see of him Blount is a back that gets better with carries

reckon Vereen will feature heavily this year so Blount may not be a great fit in that case

Blount does seem good near the goal line

All depends on the $ though

Knex*

KrustyUCC wrote: »

from what little i see of him Blount is a back that gets better with carries

reckon Vereen will feature heavily this year so Blount may not be a great fit in that case

Blount does seem good near the goal line

All depends on the $ though

He's never earned more than 2m, so the price can't be too much. Hopefully anyway.

Beefy78

Seems like a good mix of skills - Blount near the goal and where you need the tough yards, Vereen in passing situations and Perkins can do a bit of everything.

Knex*

Geoff Schwartz with a great article on Offensive line play, drafting linemen, and Ereck Flowers.

http://www.sbnation.com/2017/4/25/15358566/nfl-draft-offensive-line-prospects-evaluation-geoff-schwartz?utm_campaign=sbnation.social&utm_medium=social&utm_content=sbnationnfl&utm_source=twitter

wawaman

So Evan Engram it is. Surprised we passed on Njoku

Beefy78

I don't think they were ever high on Njoku. The beat-writers have been cool on that name throughout the process. The Giants just don't think he's as good as Engram, same as Eli Apple over Vernon Hargreaves last year.

Knex*

Only playing catch up on everything now, but a little surprised that we took Engram. Definitely a case of best player available for Reese, as a TE who is pretty much only a receiver isn't exactly our need.

Still, adding a weapon like that to OBJ, Sheppard and Marshall is ridiculously exciting. Hopefully our OL holds up.

KrustyUCC

Bit surprised we went with Engram

Seems like boom or bust player depending on who is evaluating him

I do think he will be a miss match in the pass game. Hopefully he can improve his blocking

Some writers saying Reece got outmanoeuvred again

I get a bit worried when Reece is comparing him to Jordan Reed

His last TE comparison had Adrien Robinson as the JPP Óg Tight Ends

Knex*

Linemen, on both sides of the ball, and a linebacker are what we're hopefully looking at tonight.

If Zach Cunningham is there at round 2, I'd be very happy with that.

Some potential value in edge rushers as well; Bowser, Jordan Willis & Daeshon Hall.

Pity Ramczyk is off the board, as an argument could have been made to trade up to the top of the 2nd for him, similar to Giants getting Collins two years ago.

Beefy78

It's a lot further to jump this year though. It looks to me that there should be good players in positions of need available at least in the second round and probably the third. I still think they'll take a running back at some point and it'll be interesting to see what they do if a QB they like is available.

Definitely want to see them bring in an offensive lineman in the second round either way, unless there's someone available in another position who they just cannot turn down..

HigginsJ

O-Line for definite needs to be addressed tonight. If Kaaya were there in the 3rd I'd pull the trigger at QB.

What picks do we have tonight?

Knex*

Pick 23 in both rounds, so 55th overall in the 2nd and 87th in 3rd.

Handy tracker here. http://www.espn.com/nfl/draft/teams/_/name/nyg

krustydoyle

Schefter saying we tried to trade up for Mahomes last night

Beefy78

I don't buy it.

KrustyUCC

Pick is in

Dalvin Tomlinson DT Alabama

Replacement for Hankins i presume

Knex*

What's the thoughts on Tomlinson? How should I feel?