Are Kenny Dalglish and Liverpool Done?

PhlegmyMoses

eagle eye wrote: »

So I guess what you are saying here is that if it took Alex Ferguson 7 years then all others should get longer?

That is exactly what I meant. If you are hard of reading.

Jesus Wept

willmunny1990 wrote: »

Exactly.

they are just another football club. the idea that they are something different and someone has to 'get' the club to manage them is just a romantic delusion.

Strongbow10 wrote: »

LFC is like a political party, you have to toe the party line. Shankly was the man who laid the foundations and all late comers have to pay homage.

The boss has to make the fans feel like they are part of the most exclusive party in the world. Roy didn't have Kennys shapes, the snarling at media in response to the medias non existent bias against the club.

Roy was spotted laughing with Fergie when we lost to United, which was unforgiveable, but Kenny has the shapes and political nous to know what to say and do in defeat, thats what the fans want.

Mediocrity will be celebrated so long as this mediocrity wins the heart of the support through sheer effort and love for the club. And maybe one great performance in 7.

Romanticism is a big part of the club, its like Kevin Keegan syndrome only not as bad. Dalglish isn't a bad manager and he will have something Liverpool fans find important, respect amongst his peers.

But make no mistake, "The Liverpool Way" needs to be taken apart and rebuilt as its not applicable today.

Generalisations are general.

You're the worst for it Willy, I don't even know if to take you seriously.

Father Damo wrote: »

The appointment of Dalglish following the sacking of a world class manager was the beginning of the end of Liverpool being any sort of decent club of good character.

He has won one 3rd rate trophy.

Liverpool under him are unwatachable.

His results have, generally, been woeful.

The Suarez episode, and in particular his handling of it, was one of the most embarassing periods of any clubs history. Even the FAI of yesteryear would have handled it better. The handling of the handshake incident was the final nail in the coffin. As I say these days, Liverpool, and a great deal of their fans, are no different from Man Utd these days (bar succcess of course). Rafa might have been the king of underachievement but jesus at least they played enjoyable to watch football generally.

The sooner this clown and Suarez are both shown the door the faster the club can begin to rebuild itself as one deserving of some degree of respect.

Oasis or Blur?

Father Damo

Revolution9 wrote: »

So Dalglish, with four league titles and a few domestic cup wins, is a poor manager and Rafa with two La Ligas and a European Cup is an underachiever and some chap who won the odd Scandinavian title and nothing else over 35 years of management is world class?

Baffling.

Hodgson is showing what a great manager he is at WB with limited funds and average players.

Dalglish has a style that went out 30 years ago. Past it.

Mark my words, Hodgson with the money Dalglish had would be giving the title a good run. Not praying to qualify for the Europa league.

opr

Xavi6 wrote: »

Can you please explain this to me, it's something I've never understood. What did he not or need to 'get' to succeed? What's so different at Liverpool compared to the other clubs he has succeeded at? Please don't say history.

It's just about not being an idiot who pandered to the media. I could probably do similar for Kenny but at the time I posted this in relation to Rafa/Roy :

Everything Rafa said or did came from a love of the club which was always clearly evident. He defended it bitterly and still is from interviews in recent times. One thing I always say is that I loved Rafa the man and I think to a large degree so did most of the support.

Let me give you some examples.

"I have come here to win, and my players have to have the same mentality."

"I am young, I want to win lots of matches and in the right way. I hope the players think like us that it is possible to win titles.

"I want the supporters to be proud of the team, of the manager, of the players, of the club."
Rafael Benitez


"Are people suggesting that we should be doing the same as Arsenal, who have had the same team together for the last six years and Chelsea, who have just won the league?

"If so I would accuse them of being unrealistic at this moment in time.
Roy Hodgson

---

"When you see the supporters and how the club works it is like a religion to them. We will try to do our best to bring more trophies back for them."
Rafa Benitez


"This is a new team, there are four or five new players. We finished seventh last season so I don't understand why it's suggested we should be comparing ourselves every day with Chelsea or Manchester United at this early stage of the season.

"It will be nice if we can get there. We will see but I certainly don't make that demand upon the players."
Roy Hodgson

---

When they start talking and talking about us, it shows they are worried about playing Liverpool,"
Rafa Benitez

"Northampton are a formidable opponent"
Roy Hodgson

---

"No, I'm not thinking about a draw. We're going out to win."
Rafa Benitez



"It was a good point because we knew it was going to be a tough game. (Referring to a draw against a mid-table Dutch side)
Roy Hodgson

---

Never call me the special one!"
Rafa Benitez

"To suggest that, because I have moved from one club to another, that the methods which have stood me in good stead for 35 years and made me one of the most respected coaches in Europe don't suddenly work is very hard to believe.
Roy Hodgson

---

"To work hard and have our supporters behind us and believing until the end, you run a little bit more."
Rafa Benitez

"The protest does not help but it is something I have had to live with since I came to the club,"
Roy Hodgson

---

"I have a lot of confidence in the team, maybe Milan are favourites -- they have a lot of good players -- but we have confidence and we can win." (Referring to one of the best teams in the world at the time)
Rafa Benitez


To get a result here would have been Utopia (Referring to Everton)
Roy Hodgson

---

I picked the team which I felt was right for the game and I have no regrets about that. In the first half Burnley were better than us but in the second half we were better. The bad thing is we conceded a poor goal and it was then always going to be difficult for us to score on a bad pitch against a team that was fighting for everything.
Rafa Benitez - refuses to blame youngsters after Burnley loss

"These players have to accept responsibility. I accept responsibility for changing a lot of players in the team, I did it because I honestly thought the players I put on the field were good enough to win the game and they weren't.
Roy Hodgson - lays into youngsters after Northampton loss

The man from when he arrived bought himself huge amounts of good faith off the field with his actions and words in complete contrast to Roy. Stuff like going for a drink with the fans and always getting Liverpool's back in the media galvanised his love in the fans eyes.

I don't give a crap how our manager comes across to other people as long as he is defending Liverpool, its players and the team. Something Roy has failed miserably to do and instead has alienated fans at almost every media opportunity he gets.

Opr

opr

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

I understand what point you are trying to make but there is no comparison to be made between Kenny Dalglish, Rafa, or any other manager for that matter, and Alex Ferguson. The crux of the idea is that it took 7 years for a manager like Fergie to win the league and look how he did. Clinging to the idea that because it took Ferguson a few years to make the breakthrough then other managers may do so is ridiculous. The proceeding 20 years proved that he was a great manager even when he was doing poorly and that Manchester United were right to stick with their man. This categorically is not the case for 99.99% of managers as they will never achieve anywhere near the success he has had if you left them in charge for 50 years.

Whilst I don't agree that you should adopt a Chelsea approach, the "Ferguson took 7 years" argument, which has been made time and time again, muddies the water when you are trying to evaluate a manager. Judge managers on their own merits, not on some barometer set by the greatest manager in English football. Basically, there's a middle ground between sticking by your man, Fergie-style, and sacking a manager every year in an Abramovichian fit of pique.

wtf are you even talking about ? This post is among the greatest load of cock I have ever seen posted on this forum.

Opr

niallo27

willmunny1990 wrote: »

Exactly.

they are just another football club. the idea that they are something different and someone has to 'get' the club to manage them is just a romantic delusion.

They are not just another football club though as you say, its Liverpool FC, one of the biggest clubs in the world, for ****s sake this thread is over 30 pages long already.

Revolution9

opr wrote: »

wtf are you even talking about ? This post is among the greatest load of cock I have ever seen posted on this forum.

Opr

Nice ninja edit

Xavi6

opr wrote: »

Let me give you some examples.

Cheers for that

I don't give a crap how our manager comes across to other people as long as he is defending Liverpool, its players and the team.

Even blindly to the point of embarrassment?

PhlegmyMoses

opr wrote: »

wtf are you even talking about ? This post is among the greatest load of cock I have ever seen posted on this forum.

Opr

You should probably re-read your own posts.

Opr

opr

Xavi6 wrote: »

Cheers for that

Even blindly to the point of embarrassment?

Well no which should be evident because that was the main reason Hodgson had to go in the end. You may not think Kenny comes across well but if you look into the history of why he treats the media with such contempt it shouldn't be such a surprise. The Suarez thing should and could have been handled much better but it was a pretty extraordinary situation.

tbh as a City fan who has completely lucked out with finding someone like Mancini so early you should appreciate the need for stability and keeping someone like that in charge. I remember many a cry of he was too defensive etc etc and needs to be sacked. Thankfully for City people who know better have stuck with him.

Opr

opr

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

You should probably re-read your own posts.

Opr

What's clear is if United had people like you as fans in his early years he would have been sacked. God how I wish that was the case!

Opr

Jesus Wept

To get a result here would have been Utopia (Referring to Everton) - Roy Hodgson.


Dream big buddy, dream big.

LuckyLloyd

Xavi6 wrote: »

Even blindly to the point of embarrassment?

Opposition fans being embarrassed doesn't concern us though. Their standards or expectations for what a Liverpool manager should or shouldn't say are irrelevant.

Xavi6

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Opposition fans being embarrassed doesn't concern us though. Their standards or expectations for what a Liverpool manager should or shouldn't say are irrelevant.

I know and that's fair enough, when Mancini was going on about moral victories I thought the same thing, but surely there has to be a point where you go "Ah here..."?

Dalglish now just comes across as an ignorant paranoid prick in press conferences. Sure he may have an issue with those on the other side of the mic but you have to maintain a level of professionalism for the sake of the club and its reputation.

Leiva

Xavi6 wrote: »

I know and that's fair enough, when Mancini was going on about moral victories I thought the same thing, but surely there has to be a point where you go "Ah here..."?

Dalglish now just comes across as an ignorant paranoid prick in press conferences. Sure he may have an issue with those on the other side of the mic but you have to maintain a level of professionalism for the sake of the club and its reputation.

Professionalism from the English media ??? ... Give me a fùcking break !

Kenny gives them as much respect as they deserve .

He doesn't play the game - Give me that any day compared to the vomit rising love in that Harry Rednapp likes to knock one off to .

ShiverinEskimo

Xavi's point is that a manager should have the professionalism to rise above the crap coming from the media. Not stoop to their level and make a show of himself and the club.

The media are looking for him to bite and he's chomped down quite a few times this season and the only person who looks bad afterwards is him.

Will I Amnt

mixednuts wrote: »

He doesn't play the game - Give me that any day compared to the vomit rising love in that Harry Rednapp likes to knock one off to .

Redknapp-fighting for 3rd/4th,sf FA cup,playing what a lot of people think is the most attractive style of football in the league.Some of the shrewdest,value for money transfers in recent history.

Dalglish-fighting for 6th/7th,Carling cup winners,sf FA cup,can be absolutely awful to watch at times,involved in one of the worst transfers in history among others that some would call disasters.

I don't know about you but I wouldn't give a flying f**k if he hung out the window of his van every day with his own microphone begging to be interviewed if that was the alternative.

Leiva

cambo2008 wrote: »

Redknapp-fighting for 3rd/4th,sf FA cup,playing what a lot of people think is the most attractive style of football in the league.Some of the shrewdest,value for money transfers in recent history.

Dalglish-fighting for 6th/7th,Carling cup winners,sf FA cup,can be absolutely awful to watch at times,involved in one of the worst transfers in history among others that some would call disasters.

I don't know about you but I wouldn't give a flying f**k if he hung out the window of his van every day with his own microphone begging to be interviewed if that was the alternative.

^^five points in there which I was not discussing but dont let me stop you - go knock yourself out .

Will I Amnt

mixednuts wrote: »

^^five points in there which I was not discussing but dont let me stop you - go knock yourself out .

Well you're having a go at another manager who is doing a fantastic job despite how he deals with the media.
But you're right,my points were irrelevant,apologies.

Mr Alan

ShiverinEskimo wrote: »

Xavi's point is that a manager should have the professionalism to rise above the crap coming from the media. Not stoop to their level and make a show of himself and the club.

How can a Utd fan say this with a straight face with the way Ferguson has behaved in the last 20 years?!

Mr Alan

Mr Alan wrote: »

ShiverinEskimo wrote: »

Xavi's point is that a manager should have the professionalism to rise above the crap coming from the media. Not stoop to their level and make a show of himself and the club.

How can a Utd fan say this with a straight face with the way Ferguson has behaved in the last 20 years?!

You couldn't make it up

LuckyLloyd

Xavi6 wrote: »

I know and that's fair enough, when Mancini was going on about moral victories I thought the same thing, but surely there has to be a point where you go "Ah here..."?

Dalglish now just comes across as an ignorant paranoid prick in press conferences. Sure he may have an issue with those on the other side of the mic but you have to maintain a level of professionalism for the sake of the club and its reputation.

ShiverinEskimo wrote: »

Xavi's point is that a manager should have the professionalism to rise above the crap coming from the media. Not stoop to their level and make a show of himself and the club.

The media are looking for him to bite and he's chomped down quite a few times this season and the only person who looks bad afterwards is him.

In your opinion. In your opinion.

Liverpool fans don't have a problem with how he deals with the media. The owners clearly don't have a problem as he hasn't moderated his treatment of Sky Sports all season; and even the likes of Des doesn't see it like ye do.

This is not an issue, no matter how much you want it to be.

JimsAlterEgo

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

In your opinion. In your opinion.

Liverpool fans don't have a problem with how he deals with the media. The owners clearly don't have a problem as he hasn't moderated his treatment of Sky Sports all season; and even the likes of Des doesn't see it like ye do.

This is not an issue, no matter how much you want it to be.

this the same owners who forced him to apologise re the hanshake incident, no they dont care at all.:D

Leiva

JimsAlterEgo wrote: »

this the same owners who forced him to apologise re the hanshake incident, no they dont care at all.:D

Forced who ? News to me . Link or GTFO

willmunny1990

mixednuts wrote: »

Forced who ? News to me . Link or GTFO

do you not remember?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/17004667

LuckyLloyd

JimsAlterEgo wrote: »

this the same owners who forced him to apologise re the hanshake incident, no they dont care at all.:D

His week to week treatment of the media has not changed all season. The above actually serves to prove my point - they had an issue with the Suarez incident and stepped in, ergo they wouldn't be shy in stepping in if they felt his daily attitude with the media was a problem. Dalglish hasn't changed his tune, which means they don't have a problem with how he deals with them.

As such, this isn't an issue no matter how much you are convinced it is.

Leiva

willmunny1990 wrote: »

do you not remember?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/17004667

Where does it say forced ? and Kennys apologly was specific to the post match interview he gave , nothing more .

Willy your posts and contributions really are some of the worst this forum has ever had the displeasure to hold .

I see now fans of every club (inc your own) have the measure of you and it brings a smile when I see folk don't even need the ignore functionalty of boards.ie as they have the brain power to see through your tripe .

Long may it continue I say-as soon the tipping point will be reached and your back talking to yourself in your bedroom Mr Forever Alone.

X

willmunny1990

mixednuts wrote: »

Where does it say forced ?

:rolleyes:

petty arguing over terminology.

and Kennys apologly was specific to the post match interview he gave , nothing more .

the interview after the hanshake incident, which is what jimsalterego was referring to?

Willy your posts and contributions really are some of the worst this forum has ever had the displeasure to hold .

I see now fans of every club (inc your own) have the measure of you and it brings a smile when I see folk don't even need the ignore functionalty of boards.ie as they have the brain power to see through your tripe .

Long may it continue I say-as soon the tipping point will be reached and your back talking to yourself in your bedroom Mr Forever Alone.

X

Ha! :pac:

Vudgie

This thread is nothing more than a thinly veiled attempt to bash Liverpool outside of the official thread.

Avoid.

Will I Amnt

Vudgie wrote: »

This thread is nothing more than a thinly veiled attempt to bash Liverpool outside of the official thread.

Avoid.

"Are <insert managers name here> and <insert clubs name here> done" threads have been around a long time.
It's higher profile and the volume of rivals will be high but you can't just sweep it under the carpet and ignore it.

JimsAlterEgo

cambo2008 wrote: »

"Are <insert managers name here> and <insert clubs name here> done" threads have been around a long time.
It's higher profile and the volume of rivals will be high but you can't just sweep it under the carpet and ignore it.

and they happen for a reason, namely club is getting sh!te results

It can't be ignored...:)

RasTa

Vudgie wrote: »

This thread is nothing more than a thinly veiled attempt to bash Liverpool outside of the official thread.

Avoid.

Thread worthy

"It's too early for us to talk about winning the league," said Henry according to reports on Monday. "[But] our main goal is to qualify for the Champions League. If we don't, it would be a major disappointment."

Although I don't see him getting sacked or stepping down, going to be an interesting summer.

Will I Amnt

rarnes1 wrote: »

It can't be ignored...:)

Great input rarnes,glad it gave you a smile.

JimsAlterEgo

Although I don't see him getting sacked or stepping down, going to be an interesting summer.

Its a tricky one, this was the danger of appointing him in the first place, if it doesn't work out then what can they do if he doesn't voluntarily move aside or upstairs.

LuckyLloyd

I could pick so many games from this season, but just taking some particulary irritating ones:

- beat Swansea
- beat Norwich
- beat Man City at home
- beat Wigan away

i.e. turn just four of the games we dominated into wins and we are 8 points better off and this thread doesn't exist.

Ultimately we should have won more league games this year, but the problems are obvious and correctable. Up the rate we convert chances created. Simples.

LuckyLloyd

Also, people really are underestimating our owners if they believe they'll be slow in removing Kenny should they deem it neccesary.

RayCon

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Also, people really are underestimating our owners if they believe they'll be slow in removing Kenny should they deem it neccesary.

Agreed ... the new owners dont suffer from sentimentality ...

Mr Alan

RasTa wrote: »

Thread worthy

Although I don't see him getting sacked or stepping down, going to be an interesting summer.

John Henry is right. It will be disappointing not to get 4th place & it was certainly our goal for the season.

However, disappointing does not & should not equate to a sacking in a managers first season attempting to reach his targets. Add in a Cup won. And a semi final of another to come & this thread really is ridiculous to be honest.

Will I Amnt

Mr Alan wrote: »

RasTa wrote: »

Thread worthy

Although I don't see him getting sacked or stepping down, going to be an interesting summer.

John Henry is right. It will be disappointing not to get 4th place & it was certainly our goal for the season.

However, disappointing does not & should not equate to a sacking in a managers first season attempting to reach his targets. Add in a Cup won. And a semi final of another to come & this thread really is ridiculous to be honest.

Ah Al,what position will it take to make this thread worthy....10th?.....15th?

ShiverinEskimo

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Ultimately we should have won more league games this year, but the problems are obvious and correctable. Up the rate we convert chances created. Simples.

Ah yes, score more goals from chances. Simples.

Here I thought ye needed to win more throws.

Mr Alan

cambo2008 wrote: »

Ah Al,what position will it take to make this thread worthy....10th?.....15th?

Those positions would certainly merit this thread a little more, yes.

**** 85 mins into the game against QPR the other night we were right back in with a chance of catching 4th. After the game it's crisis time & the managers future is in jeopardy.

Madness.

TBH, I couldn't give a **** if we finish 5th or 10th, so the rest of the season imo should be about rebuilding confidence & trying to win the FA Cup.

Nalz

Mr Alan wrote: »

TBH, I couldn't give a **** if we finish 5th or 10th, so the rest of the season imo should be about rebuilding confidence & trying to win the FA Cup.

You have the fixtures to do this imo. FA cup will be interesting too.

I think Liverpool will be in the top 6 by the end of the season but the signings made were poor imo.

LuckyLloyd

ShiverinEskimo wrote: »

Ah yes, score more goals from chances. Simples.

Here I thought ye needed to win more throws.

If we were regularly getting outplayed and were rarely creating many chances or dominating games I'd be panicking.

There is a lot going on week in, week out that is positive.

Crash Bang Wall

So, apart from the FA Cup semi, our season is pretty much over.

The fact that we are out of the running for 4th, what has Kenny got to lose by giving chaps like Sterling some game time? He cant do any worse that a lot of what has played this season. I dont mean starting, 20 mins v Wigan for example wouldnt do the chap any harm.

_blank_

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

the likes of Des

Stay classy. :rolleyes:

That_Guy

Crash Bang Wall wrote: »

The fact that we are out of the running for 4th, what has Kenny got to lose by giving chaps like Sterling some game time?

He's already got 100 million worth of sterling starting already.

SlickRic

i just hope he buys well in the summer.

that is the single biggest issue I have with Kenny (& Comolli) thus far. that needs to be sorted quite badly.

we can't blow big money on potential and/or crap again.

bucketybuck

Chucky the tree wrote: »

What relevance does it have if he did start up front? It's not his problem the manager doesn't play him in the best position or doesn't have a striker good enough in the team. Just because a player is picked in a position does not mean he is best suited to play that position, I thought even the most clueless would know that. How do you know he bought to score goals? Have a chat with Kenny about it? :rolleyes:

This is pretty much exactly the sort of handwaving I am talking about. Rather than accepting that just perhaps his goals record does not match his reputation among Liverpool fans, instead he gets the unwarranted defense that this international forward was not brought to the club to score goals. You couldn't make it up.

That's my point, the fans love him so he gets a pass, but if he had his exact same productivity at Utd, Spurs or Arsenal he would be quickly on the bench, just as Berbatov, Defoe and Gervinho are.

Chucky the tree

Mr Alan wrote: »

Those positions would certainly merit this thread a little more, yes.

**** 85 mins into the game against QPR the other night we were right back in with a chance of catching 4th. After the game it's crisis time & the managers future is in jeopardy.

Madness.

TBH, I couldn't give a **** if we finish 5th or 10th, so the rest of the season imo should be about rebuilding confidence & trying to win the FA Cup.

You should join us in reality land Al.

bucketybuck wrote: »

This is pretty much exactly the sort of handwaving I am talking about. Rather than accepting that just perhaps his goals record does not match his reputation among Liverpool fans, instead he gets the unwarranted defense that this international forward was not brought to the club to score goals. You couldn't make it up.

That's my point, the fans love him so he gets a pass, but if he had his exact same productivity at Utd, Spurs or Arsenal he would be quickly on the bench, just as Berbatov, Defoe and Gervinho are.

His goal scoring record could be better but that is also countered with the problem that he gets zero help from the team. He has no one to create chances for him and he has no one to help take defenders away from him. I'm not to disappoint with his production, 30 games played 11 goals and 7 assits all the while he gets little to no support from the team. Berbatov scored 9 goals in 31 games in his first season in the league for United and the following season he played in even more games, clearly rewarding his great productivity there. Defoe was consistently rewarded for lack of productivity at spurs aswell. I mean he only scored over 15 goals once in his career at spurs.