Are Kenny Dalglish and Liverpool Done?

LuckyLloyd

4th was gone before Wednesday. It was gone when the final whistle blew against Arsenal. Wednesday was really annoying, but it wasn't vital or important in a competitive sense.

Lawrence1895

Crash Bang Wall wrote: »

So, apart from the FA Cup semi, our season is pretty much over.

The fact that we are out of the running for 4th, what has Kenny got to lose by giving chaps like Sterling some game time? He cant do any worse that a lot of what has played this season. I dont mean starting, 20 mins v Wigan for example wouldnt do the chap any harm.

And when Steven Gerrard lifts that cup, everything will be fine? Don't know, but that might happen...

Sgt Pepper 64

bucketybuck wrote: »

This is pretty much exactly the sort of handwaving I am talking about. Rather than accepting that just perhaps his goals record does not match his reputation among Liverpool fans, instead he gets the unwarranted defense that this international forward was not brought to the club to score goals. You couldn't make it up.

That's my point, the fans love him so he gets a pass, but if he had his exact same productivity at Utd, Spurs or Arsenal he would be quickly on the bench, just as Berbatov, Defoe and Gervinho are.

Ditto 50 million quids of Torres! "plays for the team" "works hard" "all those assists"

Bullocks - bought to score goals - FAILED

Warper

Suarez is a top player, prob Liverpool's best now with Gerrard fading a bit. I would be more worried for Liverpool is he went in the summer than anyone else. He has been extremely unlucky in fairness this season regards scoring goals, he has hit the post on numerous occasions and has shown at both the WC and Copa that he is a world-class player. He has also missed a lot of games through his ban. He will score goals as he always has done.

The problem is the rest of Kenny's purchases. Downing - average, Henderson - average, Carroll - average, Adam - average. That is some waste of money right there and you would be lucky to get half of what they paid for them now. Plus Kenny seems to be extremely conservative in his tactics. So far tbh he should be doing better as there wont be CL football either next season.

noodler

Mr Alan wrote: »

**** 85 mins into the game against QPR the other night we were right back in with a chance of catching 4th.

No.

Chucky the tree wrote: »

You should join us in reality land Al.

Yes.

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

4th was gone before Wednesday. It was gone when the final whistle blew against Arsenal. Wednesday was really annoying, but it wasn't vital or important in a competitive sense.

Yes.

plasmaguy

In these days of the Abromovichs and Qatari Sheiks, and Anzios and so on, it's very hard for the likes of Liverpool to buy world class players in my view.

Take someone like Aquero of Man City. He's probably on something like 200k a week.

Liverpool might afford the transfer fee, but can they compete salary wise with the likes of Man City or the bigger Spanish and Italian clubs.

Plus Liverpool aint exactly the Riveria now is it.

And they won't be in the Champions League.

I wouldn't have very high expectations of Liverpool attracting world class players this summer.

Leiva

plasmaguy wrote: »

In these days of the Abromovichs and Qatari Sheiks, and Anzios and so on, it's very hard for the likes of Liverpool to buy world class players in my view.

Let's say someone like Aquero of Man City. He's probably on something like 200k a week.

Liverpool might afford the transfer fee, but can they compete salary wise with the likes of Man City or the bigger Spanish and Italian clubs.

Plus Liverpool aint exactly the Riveria now is it.

And they won't be in the Champions League.

I wouldn't have very high expectations of Liverpool attracting world class players this summer.

If you think its only Liverpool competing for players when others can offer the 200k a week along with the massive transfer fee your wrong .


Simple exercise :
Replace the word "Liverpool" with Man Utd , Arsenal , Spurs , anyone (bar the sugar daddy clubs), in your above statement and its still valid on all points (inc the Riviera )

Will I Amnt

plasmaguy wrote: »

In these days of the Abromovichs and Qatari Sheiks, and Anzios and so on, it's very hard for the likes of Liverpool to buy world class players in my view.

Take someone like Aquero of Man City. He's probably on something like 200k a week.

Liverpool might afford the transfer fee, but can they compete salary wise with the likes of Man City or the bigger Spanish and Italian clubs.

Plus Liverpool aint exactly the Riveria now is it.

And they won't be in the Champions League.

I wouldn't have very high expectations of Liverpool attracting world class players this summer.

There's only a handful of clubs that can snap up players on the scale City and Chelsea do.
It's a case of getting the best of the rest.
Ba and Hernandez were got for nothing and next to nothing.
It's the management and scouting teams job to find these type of players.

KeithAFC

Suarez is a top player

A top player who struggles to score goals? Suarez is not clinical enough as a forward. He is a striker and needs to score goals.

ShiverinEskimo

Warper wrote: »

Suarez is a top player

Jamie Redknapp is a top top pundit. He's literally on fire.

plasmaguy

mixednuts wrote: »

If you think its only Liverpool competing for players when others can offer the 200k a week along with the massive transfer fee your wrong .


Simple exercise :
Replace the word "Liverpool" with Man Utd , Arsenal , Spurs , anyone (bar the sugar daddy clubs), in your above statement and its still valid on all points (inc the Riviera )

I think Rooney is on 250k a week, no way pool could afford that.

Liverpool and Arsenal certainly cannot compete with Chelsea and Man City salary wise, so kind of invalidates your argument.

Top players will for the most part look at where the best salary is on offer, or at least the opportunity of CL football. The other teams you mention present that opportunity.

Best option is for pool to go down the developing youth policy as they done with Arsenal. Get in young strikers like a young Van Persie and encourage loyalty to the club.

plasmaguy

cambo2008 wrote: »

There's only a handful of clubs that can snap up players on the scale City and Chelsea do.
It's a case of getting the best of the rest.
Ba and Hernandez were got for nothing and next to nothing.
It's the management and scouting teams job to find these type of players.

Fair point, and this is where Dalglish has to be given time to put in the proper structures. I'm not a pool fan I hasten to add, but also not one of these people who want to see other clubs fail if you know what I mean.

I don't think Liverpool can attract the top players like they could in the 1970s and 1980s, mixed in with some local talent.

Anyways, pinning all the blame on Suarez or Carrol or the midfield isn't totally fair.

The midfield and forwards don't concede goals do they.

One or two bad players don't make for a bad team.

Leiva

plasmaguy wrote: »

I think Rooney is on 250k a week, no way pool could afford that.

Liverpool and Arsenal certainly cannot compete with Chelsea and Man City salary wise, so kind of invalidates your argument.

Top players will for the most part look at where the best salary is on offer, or at least the opportunity of CL football. The other teams you mention present that opportunity.

Best option is to go down developing youth as they done with Arsenal. Get in young srikers like a young Van Persie and encourage loyalty to the club.

You do realise that Liverpool in the past 8 months have signed commercial deals worth £300 million + over the next 6 years ?

But your right I would rather we develop the youth programs and nurture our own stars , and not have to succumb or be held to ransom by players strops for over inflated wages .

plasmaguy

mixednuts wrote: »

You do realise that Liverpool in the past 8 months have signed commercial deals worth £300 million + over the next 6 years ?

But your right I would rather we develop the youth programs and nurture our own stars , and not have to succumb or be held to ransom by players strops for over inflated wages .

Fair enough, but they are't going to have a team of superstars any time soon, need to be realistic about that.

Leiva

plasmaguy wrote: »

Fair enough, but they are't going to have a team of superstars any time soon, need to be realistic about that.

Oh I am being realistic you can be assured and i like everyone else can see the massive mistakes in the transfer market that we have made , but the way some folk go on about Liverpool signings/managers on this thread you swear the team they support signed players that turned out to be more than the club expected .

Also the comparisons between Hodgson and Kenny are fúcking comical
If people cant see the difference in play , attitude , responsibility , and passion between the two men then they are only really commenting for a rise and windup .

I am going to stop now cause i have just done full circle .

Have a good weekend .

M.

Warper

plasmaguy wrote: »

In these days of the Abromovichs and Qatari Sheiks, and Anzios and so on, it's very hard for the likes of Liverpool to buy world class players in my view.

Take someone like Aquero of Man City. He's probably on something like 200k a week.

Liverpool might afford the transfer fee, but can they compete salary wise with the likes of Man City or the bigger Spanish and Italian clubs.

Plus Liverpool aint exactly the Riveria now is it.

And they won't be in the Champions League.

I wouldn't have very high expectations of Liverpool attracting world class players this summer.

That is bull. Buying average players just highlights that the manager has a poor eye for quality or poor scouts. Just look at the likes of Napoli or Bilbao who can attract top players. Liverpool are a big name in the World and could easily attract better players than Kenny bought - ffs he has spent a 100m in a year and the wages are high.

Warper

ShiverinEskimo wrote: »

Jamie Redknapp is a top top pundit. He's literally on fire.

He is a lot better than say Hernandez of Utd who cant even make himself a first-teamer and thats a fact.

ShiverinEskimo

Warper wrote: »

He is a lot better than say Hernandez of Utd who cant even make himself a first-teamer and thats a fact.

Nah I think Redknapp is well past it. Hernandez for me.

But to get serious - you're talking through your hoop.

Suarez - 24 Games 6 Goals
Chico - 23 Games 10 Goals.

Laughable thing for you to say.

Will I Amnt

Warper wrote: »

He is a lot better than say Hernandez of Utd who cant even make himself a first-teamer and thats a fact.

He is a more complete all round player but the thing is Hernandez is far better at doing what Liverpool need Suarez to be doing and that's putting a ball in the back of the net.

The fact you have to compare him to a player that doesn't hold down a regular place speaks volumes there.

Will I Amnt

ShiverinEskimo wrote: »

Chico - 23 Games 10 Goals.

Only 15 starts too

Dub13

ShiverinEskimo wrote: »

Xavi's point is that a manager should have the professionalism to rise above the crap coming from the media. Not stoop to their level and make a show of himself and the club.

The media are looking for him to bite and he's chomped down quite a few times this season and the only person who looks bad afterwards is him.

Just like Sir Alex did with the BBC...?

ShiverinEskimo

Eh - exactly what Sir Alex did with the BBC. Saying nothing is always better than saying something stupid.

niallo27

ShiverinEskimo wrote: »

Eh - exactly what Sir Alex did with the BBC. Saying nothing is always better than saying something stupid.

He didn't rise above it when he was questioned about giggs private life, what did he say, "that fella with the laptop, we'll get him Friday, we'll get him". Who does he think he is Tony ****en Soprano.

Joe10000

I think Kenny will go in the summer of his own accord, by all accounts he does not seem to be not handling the pressure too well and with (what he believes to be) the best interests of the club at heart he will resign.

Before I get bashed I want him to stay and ride this out, the road back from the two cowboys and 17th place is going to be a long one.

niallo27

Joe10000 wrote: »

I think Kenny will go in the summer of his own accord, by all accounts he does not seem to be not handling the pressure too well and with (what he believes to be) the best interests of the club at heart he will resign.

Before I get bashed I want him to stay and ride this out, the road back from the two cowboys and 17th place is going to be a long one.

What accounts are these, I think he is loving the pressure, after all he has been through I think it will take a lot more than this to rattle him.

Joe10000

niallo27 wrote: »

What accounts are these .

If I said I had lunch with KD on Sunday would you believe me ? No, so there is no pointing claiming any source on here or any forum.

I didn't by the way.

dannydiamond

Were there seriously fans who thought we could still have finished in 4th before the QPR game, seriously? That ship sailed away with our loss to Arsenal.

This is coming from someone that would largely be considered an optimist.

Father Damo

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Opposition fans being embarrassed doesn't concern us though. Their standards or expectations for what a Liverpool manager should or shouldn't say are irrelevant.

That is exactly where the problem is.

Dalgligh is behaving with all the arrogance and clownishness that, in my mind, only United or Chelsea fans would have tolerated in the past. By tolerating and encouraging his sh1te they have become no better than their nearest rivals.

If Benitez had been such a prize plonker in how he handled things, he would have rightly lost the fans. He would have been chastised as being an embarassment to all the club apparently stood for.

Dalglish seems to get special licence to behave like this based on his previous achievements.

opr wrote: »

It's just about not being an idiot who pandered to the media. I could probably do similar for Kenny but at the time I posted this in relation to Rafa/Roy :

Everything Rafa said or did came from a love of the club which was always clearly evident. He defended it bitterly and still is from interviews in recent times. One thing I always say is that I loved Rafa the man and I think to a large degree so did most of the support.

Let me give you some examples.





The man from when he arrived bought himself huge amounts of good faith off the field with his actions and words in complete contrast to Roy. Stuff like going for a drink with the fans and always getting Liverpool's back in the media galvanised his love in the fans eyes.

I don't give a crap how our manager comes across to other people as long as he is defending Liverpool, its players and the team. Something Roy has failed miserably to do and instead has alienated fans at almost every media opportunity he gets.

Opr

You are seriously over romanticising the love for Benitez. The arguement that a few maybe I shouldnt have said that comments from Hodgson somehow makes him unfit for Liverpool, given the amount of sh1te Dalglish has come out with, is beyond laughable. You dont get the likes of Alex Ferguson calling Hodgson one of the games greatest managers for the fun of it. Lets be honest, Fergie probably doesnt rate Dalglish at all, and with good reason. Get rid of Dalglish and cash in on a sale of Suarez- he is a a Terry like player. Has brilliance but attracts negativity like flies to sh1te.

redzerdrog

Father Damo wrote: »

That is exactly where the problem is.

Dalgligh is behaving with all the arrogance and clownishness that, in my mind, only United or Chelsea fans would have tolerated in the past. By tolerating and encouraging his sh1te they have become no better than their nearest rivals.

If Benitez had been such a prize plonker in how he handled things, he would have rightly lost the fans. He would have been chastised as being an embarassment to all the club apparently stood for.

Dalglish seems to get special licence to behave like this based on his previous achievements.



You are seriously over romanticising the love for Benitez. The arguement that a few maybe I shouldnt have said that comments from Hodgson somehow makes him unfit for Liverpool, given the amount of sh1te Dalglish has come out with, is beyond laughable. You dont get the likes of Alex Ferguson calling Hodgson one of the games greatest managers for the fun of it. Lets be honest, Fergie probably doesnt rate Dalglish at all, and with good reason. Get rid of Dalglish and cash in on a sale of Suarez- he is a a Terry like player. Has brilliance but attracts negativity like flies to sh1te.

what a load of rubbish

You have managed to do in one post that willmunny hasnt been able to do in 100s and get straight onto my ignore list

Father Damo

redzerdrog wrote: »

what a load of rubbish

You have managed to do in one post that willmunny hasnt been able to do in 100s and get straight onto my ignore list

Imn going to assume I am not on Ignore

You cant honestly say as a fan your jaw wasnt dropping at every piece of rubbish he came out with over the Suarez incident.

The T Shirts
The blind defence of him at all costs
Still claiming nothing happened when Suarez obliquely admitted it and said Evra was a rat for reporting it
His reaction to the handshake incident, before being forced by the owners to finally change his tune because of the amount of ridicule and disrepute he was bringing the club

Father Damo

redzerdrog wrote: »

what a load of rubbish

You have managed to do in one post that willmunny hasnt been able to do in 100s and get straight onto my ignore list

Imn going to assume I am not on Ignore

You cant honestly say as a fan your jaw wasnt dropping at every piece of rubbish he came out with over the Suarez incident.

The T Shirts
The blind defence of him at all costs
Still claiming nothing happened when Suarez obliquely admitted it and said Evra was a rat for reporting it
His reaction to the handshake incident, before being forced by the owners to finally change his tune because of the amount of ridicule and disrepute he was bringing the club

d22ontour

plasmaguy wrote: »

In these days of the Abromovichs and Qatari Sheiks, and Anzios and so on, it's very hard for the likes of Liverpool to buy world class players in my view.

Take someone like Aquero of Man City. He's probably on something like 200k a week.

Liverpool might afford the transfer fee, but can they compete salary wise with the likes of Man City or the bigger Spanish and Italian clubs.

Plus Liverpool aint exactly the Riveria now is it.

And they won't be in the Champions League.

I wouldn't have very high expectations of Liverpool attracting world class players this summer.

I don't buy into this at all, mostly, wages apart of course , Liverpool are still a lure for many players, some things clubs don't lose overtime.
Liverpool have bought/produced as many if not more world class players than any other top English team in the last 10 years imo.
They suffered from Rafas last year with G+H as owners and Rafa being poor to Woy being Woy to Kenny who has in fairness bought with funds raised from sales mainly trying to stabilise the club.He has started that and the job at hand is not like it was 3 years ago when the top four was almost set in stone.
Your point about oil money clubs has 2 clubs who should finish top four every year due to this cash influx which leaves two places for United,Arsenal,Liverpool and Spurs who i didn't think would last the pace this year to fight for 'Newcastle too if they last the pace which is great'.
The bar has been raised somewhat and will take time for Liverpool to be capable of getting there, beating United/City/Arsenal/Chelsea/Spurs at home is useless if you lose away to Wigan the next week, has been Liverpools main problem for many years now, no point being good enough to beat the best if you struggle against the rest.
Liverpool imo would be best giving Kenny 2 more years with some sort of funds to attempt breaking into the top four and then see were they are, i would imagine 5th-6th in those two years would be best finishes with the current funding.
City and Chelsea are here to stay unless their owners get bored, i wouldn't fancy Liverpools chances against finishing above United and Arsenal with their current managers as things stand.

Father Damo

Oranage2 wrote: »

I had to hold my tongue on the whole racism incident but Dalglish has to realise that this isnt the 1980s anymore, racism in his day might have been the done thing but in 2012 there shouldnt be room for racist bigots like him but it's perhaps a reflection of the fans that support Dalglish.

You can even leave racism out of it, the time has nothing to do with it, blind arrogance is all it is. Lets assume, for example, instead of multiple racist remarks, Suarez made multiple references to the Munich crash. The fact is, Dalglish would have been there half denying it happened and half saying that even if it did it happen it was only banter anyway. The man clearly does not have the PR skills to be managing a club.

Nalz

how many times is Ferguson mentioned in this "Are Kenny Dalglish and Liverpool Done" thread? Can someone please count for me?

monkey9

Trilla wrote: »

how many times is Ferguson mentioned in this "Are Kenny Dalglish and Liverpool Done" thread? Can someone please count for me?

Who started the thread????


And why???

ShiverinEskimo

monkey9 wrote: »

Who started the thread????


And why???

I did. Because it was the latest in a lengthening line of poor league results for Liverpool under Dalglish.

Keep up.

monkey9

Kenny Dalglish and Liverpool will never be done!! Fail of a thread title!! Love the way though, that Man U fans are still obsessed with a seventh placed club!! It's almost like LFC is still relevant!!

ShiverinEskimo

Yep. We discussed this 'obsession' retort a couple of pages back too.

Go read the thread and post something original when you're up to speed.

There's a good lad.

monkey9

ShiverinEskimo wrote: »

Yep. We discussed this 'obsession' retort a couple of pages back too.

Go read the thread and post something original when you're up to speed.

There's a good lad.

Couldn't be arsed reading the thread after seeing the thread title!! Same old, same old. Man U fans still talking ****e about Liverpool is all i hear, see and read!!

Loving the patronisation, by the way. That must mean you're more intelligent and well read than me. Good for you!!

monkey9

ShiverinEskimo wrote: »

I did. Because it was the latest in a lengthening line of poor league results for Liverpool under Dalglish.

Keep up.

So go start a 'Are Roberto Martinez and Wigan done?' thread so! Go for it. The floor is yours!!

Professional Griefer

monkey9 wrote: »

So go start a 'Are Roberto Martinez and Wigan done?' thread so! Go for it. The floor is yours!!

I don't think Wigan were aiming for a massively high place. Its the fact that Liverpool were, and are doing so poorly that theres a topic about it.

Please stop crying, if the thought of other people discussing this upsets you so much, leave. You can choose to ignore it. Or discuss it, and stop banging on about other stuff.

d22ontour

Trilla wrote: »

how many times is Ferguson mentioned in this "Are Kenny Dalglish and Liverpool Done" thread? Can someone please count for me?

Once, by you strangely enough.

Nalz

monkey9 wrote: »

Who started the thread???
And why???

Look monkey9.

Liverpool are in bad form.
Shocking form one might say.
7 league wins in 6 months.
Some of the clubs purchases are not producing.
Then there is the Suarez fiasco that some feel was dealt badly by Liverpool and Dalglish.

I'm assuming thats why the thread was started. No Need for this fúcking Man United vs Liverpool fans bullshít.

monkey9

Trilla wrote: »

Look monkey9.

Liverpool are in bad form.
Shocking form one might say.
7 league wins in 6 months.
Some of the clubs purchases are not producing.
Then there is the Suarez fiasco that some feel was dealt badly by Liverpool and Dalglish.

I'm assuming thats why the thread was started. No Need for this fúcking Man United vs Liverpool fans bullshít.

Oh don't get me wrong. We're shockingly sh!te at the moment. I'm in no way backing away from that arguement. We. Are. ****!! End of arguement!!

But this 'are 'insert Liverpool's manager name' and Liverpool done' thread is getting a bit ridiculousness!!

It just makes me laugh that it goes to so many pages!!

ShiverinEskimo

monkey9 wrote: »

It just makes me laugh that it goes to so many pages!!

Keep adding to them there.

monkey9

ShiverinEskimo wrote: »

Keep adding to them there.

No!!!

monkey9

ShiverinEskimo wrote: »

Keep adding to them there.

I will not!!

monkey9

ShiverinEskimo wrote: »

Keep adding to them there.

Sh!t.

Father Damo

monkey9 wrote: »

Oh don't get me wrong. We're shockingly sh!te at the moment. I'm in no way backing away from that arguement. We. Are. ****!! End of arguement!!

But this 'are 'insert Liverpool's manager name' and Liverpool done' thread is getting a bit ridiculousness!!

It just makes me laugh that it goes to so many pages!!

But the main fact here is that anyone, Liverpool fan or otherwise, should have seen the rot kicking in from the start. I cringed when, as a Liverpool fan, I heard Dalglish was coming back. I knew beyond doubt it would be a failure (although I merely thought results wise- I had no idea of the level of embarassment it would be). I knew the club was going the wrong way in forcing Hodgson out. Liverpool had a great opportunity to, with the new owners, stay with Roy and become a legitimate title challenger again. Under Dalglish they will be lucky to get into the Europa cup, they wont in a million years challenge for Europe.

dannydiamond

Father Damo wrote: »

I knew the club was going the wrong way in forcing Hodgson out. Liverpool had a great opportunity to, with the new owners, stay with Roy and become a legitimate title challenger again.

Sweet suffering jesus.