Are Kenny Dalglish and Liverpool Done?

plasmaguy

amacachi wrote: »

Have a look at the Arsenal thread, I don't think there was a single person who thought we had a shot at the league this year. On the other hand I've put up with "This is our year" from Liverpool fans since before I can remember. Finish 4th, sign a mediocre coupla players, have a chance at the league. Sure look at the Liverpool thread, even a coupla posters in there like to use the "our year" thing as a joke.
I could tolerate 3 more seasons as long as we're really challenging for the title in the third year. Not worried about the cups but a CL run would be nice. when we have a financial advantage and little to no debt to worry about. If Liverpool ever actually get the finger out and build a stadium the fans will be in for the shock of their lives when they see what it means financially for at least half a dozen years.

Grand, fair enough, you know where I stand re Wenger, once the invincibles left, it was game over for Wenger. That's it. I won't say any more because if might offend the people who like to go around calling everyone trolls.

Helix

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

No, it's much simpler than that. We got a great day out and the wonderful experience of winning. And that means an awful lot, and is something that is being woefully undervalued by many people when it suits them.

like liverpool fans in any other season?

the only supporters who ever care about the league cup are the ones who won it

Richard Hillman

Dogleash also seems to think Suarez's handball goal should have stood :pac:

Sgt Pepper 64

why the hell have we got yet another thread on this and do people honestly care that much about the trials and tribulations of a once great but now minor top ten club?

Leiva

Richard Hillman wrote: »

Dogleash also seems to think Suarez's handball goal should have stood :pac:

Did you think that up all by yourself or did your SNA help you ?

Jesus Wept

Sgt Pepper 64 wrote: »

why the hell have we got yet another thread on this and do people honestly care that much about the trials and tribulations of a once great but now minor top ten club?

Thanks for coming.

niallo27

Sgt Pepper 64 wrote: »

why the hell have we got yet another thread on this and do people honestly care that much about the trials and tribulations of a once great but now minor top ten club?

Liverpool are one of the biggest clubs in the world that's why people are obsessed with them, you can't just hand out a couple of thousand plastic flags and become a big club.

plasmaguy

Sgt Pepper 64 wrote: »

why the hell have we got yet another thread on this and do people honestly care that much about the trials and tribulations of a once great but now minor top ten club?

Yeh think you are right. I made an initial post saying I didn't see the point of constantly sacking managers because they are a position or two below where they should be, have a bad run here or there, nett spend of 50 million was never going to deliver a top 4 compared to their competitors, but got jumped on! Threads like these tend to suck you in and you get stuck responding to posters. Leaving it now. Good luck to all yee pool fans, if sacking Dalglish solves everything and delivers a top 4 finish next year (bit of a gamble to be honest), then go for it. They always say Pool fans know their football anyways, so I'm sure this will be the right decision.

Sgt Pepper 64

niallo27 wrote: »

Liverpool are one of the biggest clubs in the world that's why people are obsessed with them, you can't just hand out a couple of thousand plastic flags and become a big club.

Because you have to have something to wave about?

seriously, does the boards world need another thread

its not like you were expected to win the league or anything

niallo27

Sgt Pepper 64 wrote: »

Because you have to have something to wave about?

seriously, does the boards world need another thread

its not like you were expected to win the league or anything

I totally agree with you, I just don't know why you needed to throw in the dig at the end.

RasTa

“It doesn’t matter how well or badly you play, you still need a wee bit of luck sometimes and there is no reason why the second goal should be chalked off for me.” – Liverpool boss Kenny Dalglish.

Yeah sure....

http://www.101greatgoals.com/gvideos/luis-suarez-disallowed-goal-for-handball-liverpool-1-wigan-2/

DB10

Before that CC Liverpool hadn't won a trophy in 6 years, so its not like they can just slag off Arsenal for winning none in that time either.

It creates a winning mentality , but really you need a young group of players winning these trophies so that they can build on it. There is no guarantee these players or Daglish will still be at the club next season.

woodoo

I remember Kenny at Celtic he was dour, grumpy and not up to the job there. He is not good enough to manage Liverpool now either. Back in the 80's he was a great player in a team of brilliant footballers. Any half decent manager could have won with that lot.

amacachi

RasTa wrote: »

Yeah sure....

http://www.101greatgoals.com/gvideos/luis-suarez-disallowed-goal-for-handball-liverpool-1-wigan-2/

Suarez must've pinky-promised he didn't handle it. :pac:

Sgt Pepper 64

niallo27 wrote: »

I totally agree with you, I just don't know why you needed to throw in the dig at the end.

yeah I know - I just cant see whats going to be said here that hasnt already been said in the other one

noodler

Jesus Kenny, at least keep your mouth shut if you haven't seen the replay.

Daemos

As much as I hate to admit it, serious questions have to be asked at this stage. Obviously he should see out the season, but after that...

KevIRL

Richard Hillman wrote: »

Dogleash also seems to think Suarez's handball goal should have stood :pac:

Dalglish in his post match interview today, referring to Suarez’ second goal which was disallowed for handball; “There is no reason why the second goal should be chalked off.”

Whatever people might say about him he is clearly a classy guy, as shown in the picture below

Jesus Wept

KevIRL wrote: »

Dalglish in his post match interview today, referring to Suarez’ second goal which was disallowed for handball; “There is no reason why the second goal should be chalked off.”

Whatever people might say about him he is clearly a classy guy, as shown in the picture below

As is Alec.

jaykay74

The-Rigger wrote: »

As is Alec.

who

ShiverinEskimo

Alec Baldwin perhaps. Quite classy I suppose.

Jesus Wept

jaykay74 wrote: »

who

Thought I'd try it out, like some of the media peoples call him.

Turtyturd

KevIRL wrote: »

Dalglish in his post match interview today, referring to Suarez’ second goal which was disallowed for handball; “There is no reason why the second goal should be chalked off.”

Whatever people might say about him he is clearly a classy guy, as shown in the picture below

A picture most likely taken out of context...gold star for you.

Nalz

Kenny Dalglish is Alex Ferguson

ShiverinEskimo

Turtyturd wrote: »

A picture most likely taken out of context...gold star for you.

Most likely? How do you figure? What makes your assumption any different from what the picture suggests?

Gold star right back at you.

carlcon

Turtyturd wrote: »

A picture most likely taken out of context...gold star for you.

Unless the context was them playing a game of "let's see if I can kick the ball before you slap it", there is no "context" that justifies a man coming from behind another and trying to kick a ball while he bends down to pick it up.

peterswellman

Turtyturd wrote: »

A picture most likely taken out of context...gold star for you.

Always the victim. This photo is obviously photoshopped by the media who hate Kenny's vibrant young side and are doing their best to make them look bad. It's a disgrace tbh.

gosplan

In the original photo it was a puppy. Martinez bent down to stroke it when Kenny put the boot in.

daRobot

gosplan wrote: »

In the original photo it was a puppy. Martinez bent down to stroke it when Kenny put the boot in.

LOL

J. Marston

The-Rigger wrote: »

As is Alec.

Sir Alex Ferguson, please. Address him by his proper title.

Ya little bollocks!

homerjay2005

peterswellman wrote: »

Always the victim. This photo is obviously photoshopped by the media who hate Kenny's vibrant young side and are doing their best to make them look bad. It's a disgrace tbh.

its not his fault that there is a man in the way of his boot. martinez should be banned for 3 games, for such a horrible act.

dalglish looked a broken man on the interview, this weeks excuse was tiredness. is it not his job to be able to rotate the players to get the best results? he spent 120million in a year on 7 or 8 players, surely that should buy him enough players to be able to rotate a few.

Mr.Crinklewood

KevIRL wrote: »

Dalglish in his post match interview today, referring to Suarez’ second goal which was disallowed for handball; “There is no reason why the second goal should be chalked off.”

Whatever people might say about him he is clearly a classy guy, as shown in the picture below

Crappy link to incident:-

http://watchhighlightsonline.blogspot.com/2012/03/video-suarez-second-goal-vs-wigan.html

Ordinary man

I hope he can stay there for another 10 years. He's doing a better job than roy.

SirDelboy18

Please don't sack him Liverpool, he is just simply too much fun.

I honestly wish that he wins the next 10 Carling Cups if that allows us to witness him week in, week out making a fool of himself in interviews and consigning Liverpool to mid table mediocrity.

Mr. Presentable

RasTa wrote: »

Yeah sure....

http://www.101greatgoals.com/gvideos/luis-suarez-disallowed-goal-for-handball-liverpool-1-wigan-2/

Was the ball not already over the line when he handled it?

J. Marston

Mr. Presentable wrote: »

Was the ball not already over the line when he handled it?

Nope.

Cantona's Collars

8 points from 11 games is woeful,£100 million spent on mediocre players.Only for his status he'd be sacked by now,the cup win just papered over the cracks.I hope he stays there.

kryogen

It is very clear that it is because of his standing in the club he has made it this far tbh, the form has been woeful, the post match interviews hilarious, for the wrong reasons and the team is still toothless in front of goal.

I said it when he was appointed and I will say it again, Kenny is not the answer for Liverpool, with that in mind, he can stay as long as he likes imo. Its fun and its fun to watch some peoples attempts to distort events surrounding him and defend him no matter what.

He wasted a lot of money last year and surely he will not be trusted with a lot this year? I would assume he will be moved back upstairs again though as the owners are no fools in that respect. To sack him now would be pointless but I am sure a shortlist is being drawn up and people will be approached at the end of the season. He is clever, very clever with how he handles his image for the Liverpool fans, always has been, but that will surely not be enough to save him.

kippy

donfers wrote: »

Roy Hodsgon is a mediocre man, with a mediocre coaching record and is a mediocre manager. Anyone who thinks he is a good manager knows nothing about football. His only skill is organising poor or badly managed teams into mediocre teams. For relegation threatened sides that have been mismanaged then he is a safe bet as his mediocre football and mediocre playing style and stifling game will bore it's way to a few points here and there and the side will gradually climb a little to a mediocre league position. Roy Hodgson is mediocre, if a team aspires to mediocrity then go ahead and choose him, however Liverpool is the most decorated team in the history of the English game and one of the most well-loved teams in world football, the last manager a club like Liverpool should ever choose is Roy Hodgson.

Having said all that I don't think Kenny is the right man either, although the guy has a million times more class, dignity and understanding of what Liverpool FC is about than Roy Hodgson

I've a post on this thread earlier on about why I dont think Kenny should or will be sacked this season, however some of the comments coming from some Liverpool fans on this thread are just beyond a joke at this point.
1. Roy Hodgson is a mediocre man?? Really, what exactly does this mean? This kind of attitude has been echoed by a few people and is totally undeserved. Whatever about his management skills and capability, to slander him personally is just ridiculous. For this to come from the fans of a club who like to think they have so much history and are well respected is just awful.

2. Some teams are don't and rarely will ever have the resources to be what you describe as "mediocre". In fact the players and managers that keep those teams in a league of the top teams in England when they are hopelessy underfunded in comparison, deserve far more praise than those that spend hundreds of millions and have an annual wage bill that would cover the cost of a new stadium every year for these "mediocre" clubs. Fans follow them not because they are "mediocre" but because they have a massive link to the clubs. Lots of managers were "mediocre" once.

3. To suggest Kenny has any more class than anyone else is just a falacy. You only have to look at how he has handled himself this season to see that. He as no more class than Ferguson, Mourinho, Hodgson, McCarthy.

4. For a guy who "understands what Liverpool is about" (any chance someone can define what Liverpool is about - loaded question btw) he sure as hell doesnt seem to know how to put it into practice.

Father Damo

willmunny1990 wrote: »

Hodgson and west brom has 3 points more than pool and Dalglish away from home in the prem this season having played the same number of away games.

Another rubbish theory bites the dust...

This has pretty much ended the arguement. Close thread Rubbish Roy who apparently is so sh1te is doing better away despite sod all money and a very average team.

As for what did Roy achieve with a top club, he never had a top club before, so its a pointless arguement. But he did reasonably well with alot of mid level clubs. To bring Fulham from the jaws of relegation to a European final is no mean feat. At the moment there is no room for him at a top 4 side- Harry wont leave Spurs for England 2012 (because he knows they will lose. Badly). Wenger is serving life at this stage no matter how bad results go. Chelsea wouldnt go near him and nor would he to them.

doc_17 wrote: »

Roy Hodgson had a record of never winning anything anywhere and also very rarely winning away matches. He also disrespected the club on lots of occassions with his comments (which have been posted already).

Kenny Dalglish made more verbal gaffes in the space of a few weeks than Hodgson managed in his six odd months at the helm.

MonkeyTennis wrote: »

Similar to the Suarez situation, I think non Liverpool fans just dont get it.

:pac:

donfers wrote: »

Roy Hodsgon is a mediocre man, with a mediocre coaching record and is a mediocre manager. Anyone who thinks he is a good manager knows nothing about football. His only skill is organising poor or badly managed teams into mediocre teams.

He reached a European final. A final that alot of better sides have failed to give a decent challenge to this season.

Having said all that I don't think Kenny is the right man either, although the guy has a million times more class, dignity....

:pac:

Ah now, seriously like. Class?

billybudd

No player is busting a gut for Daglish and that is something that is very worrying.

Give a top class manger €100 million to spend and the least they will get you is CL football.

Helix

Father Damo wrote: »

As for what did Roy achieve with a top club, he never had a top club before,

inter?

Father Damo

Helix wrote: »

inter?

And look what he did there


With significant investment, he presided over a rebuilding phase. Inter had finished 13th and 6th in the seasons prior to his arrival. After a terrible start to the season, Hodgson was brought in and guided the club to 7th place in the 1995–96 season, qualifying for the UEFA Cup. The 1996–97 season saw Hodgson leave Inter after 14 wins, 13 draws and five defeats in Serie A, with Inter placed 3rd in the league, and he was replaced by Luigi Simoni whose side finished 2nd in the league in the 1997–8 season and won the UEFA Cup. In 2009 Hodgson recalled his time at Inter: "We lacked stars, apart from Paul Ince. It wasn't the Inter we see today of household names. They weren't the best technically but physically they were like machines. The Premier League is like that now, but back then Italy was far ahead."[5]


Class act

Actually, look at his general record

guided the Switzerland national team to the last 16 of the 1994 World Cup and qualification for Euro 1996; Switzerland had not qualified for a major tournament since the 1960s. From 2006 to 2007, he managed the Finland national team, guiding them to their highest ever FIFA ranking of 33rd place, and coming close to qualifying for a major tournament for the first time in the nation's history. He has been the beaten finalist in the UEFA Cup and the Europa League.

For a load of jobs few others would be arsed touching he got a few results.

billybudd

Father Damo wrote: »

And look what he did there


With significant investment, he presided over a rebuilding phase. Inter had finished 13th and 6th in the seasons prior to his arrival. After a terrible start to the season, Hodgson was brought in and guided the club to 7th place in the 1995–96 season, qualifying for the UEFA Cup. The 1996–97 season saw Hodgson leave Inter after 14 wins, 13 draws and five defeats in Serie A, with Inter placed 3rd in the league, and he was replaced by Luigi Simoni whose side finished 2nd in the league in the 1997–8 season and won the UEFA Cup. In 2009 Hodgson recalled his time at Inter: "We lacked stars, apart from Paul Ince. It wasn't the Inter we see today of household names. They weren't the best technically but physically they were like machines. The Premier League is like that now, but back then Italy was far ahead."[5]


Class act

Actually, look at his general record

guided the Switzerland national team to the last 16 of the 1994 World Cup and qualification for Euro 1996; Switzerland had not qualified for a major tournament since the 1960s. From 2006 to 2007, he managed the Finland national team, guiding them to their highest ever FIFA ranking of 33rd place, and coming close to qualifying for a major tournament for the first time in the nation's history. He has been the beaten finalist in the UEFA Cup and the Europa League.

For a load of jobs few others would be arsed touching he got a few results.

Like many mid table manager when thrust in to a job with expectations he seems to flounder, Blackburn where considered a top team while he was in charge.

I do think he was treated very poorly by Liverpool fans while in charge.

Hannibal

Oranage2 wrote: »

I think people forget that Rafa left because he was getting no funding so when Woy took over he was left with a very much depleted team - He was then giving a measly 20 million to rebuild -

He was then sacked and Kenny came in a spend 100+ million albeit half the funds came from selling a player but still he spend 100 million and the football has only slightly improved, the win ratios between the 2 managers will show that !

Maybe Woy wasnt the right man but Kenny certainly isnt any better and TBH I'd rather Hodgson manage my team than Dalglish!

Rafa was sacked by email after Christian Purslow undermined him to the players and tried to tell him how to play. Rafa fell out with the then owners in late 2007 over their transfer plans and how slow they were to act in the market and then they tried to replace him with Klinsmann, but they found that replacing a manager who had two European Cup finals and an FA Cup in 3 seasons wasn't going to be easy so from this point on all trust was lost. The owners then famously fell out with each other after this.
Rafa was also operating under a sell to buy policy from 2007 with examples being having to sell Cisse, Bellamy and Luis Garcia to just buy Torres and selling Sissoko to get Lucas.

Hodgson undertook the job knowing that the previous sell to buy policy would continue and he was effectively a steady hand until the club was sold, his total outlay is around £25m and it wasn't a rebuilding job it was more of a maintain stabilty job. He had Reina, Johnson and Agger seriously considering their futures due to the quality of football and poor man management.
In his time at Liverpool, Shelvey, Jovanovic, Cole, Wilson (£2m), Aurelio, Poulsen (£4.5m), Konchesky (£3.5m), Jones (£2.3m) and Meireles (£11.5m) all joined the club. Shelvey and Jovanovic were Benitez signings that the club had already committed to buy. The seven Hodgson buys were of a shocking quality with Poulsen and Konchesky possibly the two worst players ever to wear the shirt, Cole was on £5m per year in wages, Jones was never good at Boro and Aurelio was previously released by Benitez over his injury record. The sales of Benayoun, Riera, San Jose and Mascherano financed Hodgsons recruits.
What's worse about the Hodgson buys is that Konchesky was sold for £1.5m, Poulsen sold for free, Jones can't be sold as no one will buy him, Aurelio is still injured and Cole is on loan at Lille with Liverpool paying most of his £100k per week. Meireles was sold for £12m so we broke even. Hodgsons legacy is of aging players with no sell on value.

Dalglish has a net spent of roughly £30m with sales of around £80m and buys of £110m. The big eye openers were Carroll for £35m, Henderson for £16m, Adam for £8.5m and Downing for £18.5m. All of these players have failed to perform to anything near or like their previous form and their weaknesses further exposed by injuries to key players like Gerrard and Lucas. Enrique and Suarez look good buys who could easily fetch more than their original price and Coates at 22 costing £5m looks so far so good for a young centre back.
For me Dalglish's biggest failure is the midfield area. The defence has been pretty solid but the midfield is letting the attack down with not enough good supply and/or clear cut chances created. Suarez often has to beat 2 or 3 men to get a shot off.
He let the sublimely talented and star of our pre-season Aquilani leave on loan and also Meireles leave to a major rival plus with injuries to Gerrard and Lucas we have played Spearing and Adam in the middle and both are way out of their depth. Henderson isn't a right winger and Downing for an experienced international and PL player is only starting to hit his grove after nearly 7 months. When Dalglish has played Gerrard he's been way too deep as seen today, Gerrard's best form was from 2004 to 2009 when he was practically a centre forward or playing high on the right wing where he didn't have to defend and could concentrate solely on attacking play.

Joe10000

MrMatisse wrote: »

The man is off the pace. You cant just leave him there until the club is relegated

We have YNWA as our anthem for a reason. Kenny has done more for this club then any man alive and he knows what's best for the club more then you or me.

blatantrereg

Commentator mentioned in RTE highlights that Liverpool would be in the bottom three if the league had started on new year's day. [In fact he might have said absolute bottom].

Shockingly bad tbh. That said, sacking managers hasn't turned out to be a good move for Liverpool in recent years.

Maximus Alexander

I'm just intrigued to find out, if Liverpool's decline continues, will their fans remain as numerous and vocal as ever? Because as a United fan, I'm fairly certain there would be less of us about if United ever dropped out of the top four, let alone started descending into the middle of the table.

Richard Hillman

DB10 wrote: »

Before that CC Liverpool hadn't won a trophy in 6 years, so its not like they can just slag off Arsenal for winning none in that time either.

It creates a winning mentality , but really you need a young group of players winning these trophies so that they can build on it. There is no guarantee these players or Daglish will still be at the club next season.

Cliche Overdose

batistuta9

blatantrereg wrote: »

Commentator mentioned in RTE highlights that Liverpool would be in the bottom three if the league had started on new year's day. [In fact he might have said absolute bottom].

Shockingly bad tbh. That said, sacking managers hasn't turned out to be a good move for Liverpool in recent years.

18th he said they'd be in

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

I'm just intrigued to find out, if Liverpool's decline continues, will their fans remain as numerous and vocal as ever? Because as a United fan, I'm fairly certain there would be less of us about if United ever dropped out of the top four, let alone started descending into the middle of the table.

you mean will kids still start to support them two clubs if they weren't at the top. probably not tbh, some will still grow up to support l'pool & united because members of their family do, but more will start supporting teams doing well at the time.

look how many kids/teenagers you see wearing chelsea tops now compared to how many supported them here years ago, i knew of 2 people growing up who supported chelsea and 1 was someone my mother knew.