Are Kenny Dalglish and Liverpool Done?

SlickRic

Mr Alan wrote: »

I'm sorry Slick, but you were a staunch supporter of his before the last couple of months, so essentially the last few games have entirely changed your opinion & now your in the "I'm not saying he should be sacked, but serious questions should be asked" camp. Serious questions should be asked, I agree, but one of those questions is not, "should we get rid of Kenny after one season? (a season in which we win at least 1 trophy, decent chance of 2, and qualify for Europe).

i would have never been "staunch". i gave Kenny a huge benefit of the doubt for a long time over the games where we seemed to play well but didn't score.

but yes, the last couple months have to cause me to move camp. it's not all down to luck, etc, which Kenny seems to bemoan a lot. there's a point at which something isn't right.

as you well know, i simply don't know if I want Kenny to stay on. firstly, because his use of £85m was hap-hazard at best, plain horrendous at worst, and secondly, because i just don't know if he's capable at managing at this level anymore. he has to prove it. and a Carling Cup win (see Birmingham), and an FA Cup run (see Bolton last year) are not automatically a sign that we're on the right path.

and i don't see what's wrong with that position, and there are some who seem to ridicule that position.

he's steadied the boat, but in essence, that is all he seems to have really done. he's done the job Roy was supposed to do. but Kenny has to prove he can get us to the next level, and the signs have to get better.

but let me ask you this, since you ask it about Roy Hodgson so much (who i abhor for his antics while in the job, just to clarify from the outset)...Kenny's a club legend and always will be, but do you believe any of the top clubs would be falling over themselves to get Kenny Dalglish in if he were out of work tomorrow?

LuckyLloyd

KeithAFC wrote: »

Not challenging for the league title or getting back into the Champions league? Graham Souness said it best, any team can win a cup.

Except Arsenal.

And in anycase, we can't challenge for either of those things now, so it absolutely makes sense to prioritise the FA Cup.

Dub13

KeithAFC wrote: »

Not challenging for the league title or getting back into the Champions league? Graham Souness said it best, any team can win a cup.

When the League is gone and CL spot gone this changes things,we already have EL football next season so not much difference were we finish in the league.

The flip side to this is would fans give up an FA cup win to be a few more spots up the league table..?I know I would not.

LuckyLloyd

To put in its simplest terms: a double cup winning season would be far more memorable for the fans and, crucially, exciting for the players than any season we finish 4th without silverware.

ShiverinEskimo

Dub13 wrote: »

We are in the business of winning trophy's,so it makes sense.

It's lucky you real fans are around to show the non-real fans the kind of ambition you have for your club.

KeithAFC

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

To put in its simplest terms: a double cup winning season would be far more memorable for the fans and, crucially, exciting for the players than any season we finish 4th without silverware.

Short term thinking. Finishing in the Champions league spots gives you a better platform to get in better players and use it as a spring board to possibly challenge for the title.

There is no guarantee Liverpool will win the FA cup. So is a Carling cup win and finishing 7th to possibly 10th good enough? I don't think so. Not when you consider the money spent and some of the good players you do have.

Chucky the tree

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

To put in its simplest terms: a double cup winning season would be far more memorable for the fans and, crucially, exciting for the players than any season we finish 4th without silverware.

Not sure agree with this. Most of the players have said while the Carling Cup is good, 4th is priority. The younger players might prefer the silverware and medals. Also, do you think other players who'd like to sign would think that? I certainly don't, top players in Europe would rather sign for a team who finished 4th then one who concentrates on domestic cups.

KeithAFC

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Not sure agree with this. Most of the players have said while the Carling Cup is good, 4th is priority. The younger players might prefer the silverware and medals.

The Liverpool owners said top 4 was priority.

Big Pussy Bonpensiero

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

To put in its simplest terms: a double cup winning season would be far more memorable for the fans and, crucially, exciting for the players than any season we finish 4th without silverware.

After Juande Ramos won the CC he proceeded to get 2 points from 24 the following season. 2 seasons on from Spurs, traditionaly a selling club, finishing fourth we still have all our top players and indeed have added some more. CL is far more important than either domestic cup, even than both of them.

Dub13

ShiverinEskimo wrote: »

It's lucky you real fans are around to show the non-real fans the kind of ambition you have for your club.

Its dealing with reality unfortunately,nothing to do with our overall ambition.If we were here saying would could still come 4th/5th you would A) say the same and Say we are deluded.

counterlock

K-9 wrote: »

Don't see why it is, I'd say its an intrinsic part of it and indeed probably the main driving force behind why some are calling for him to go after a very good job last season, a Cup win this season and a Cup Semi Final that we don't even know the result of because its only bloody March and he's barely a year in the job.

Its a joke tbh and a sad indictment of what all the money has done for "modern" fans. Spolt infants tbh.

I think the sport and pressure on managers has changed too much over the past 25 years for it to be a valid.
Any manager at any club would be under serious pressure if they were in Kennys situation. The fact that he has treated the media the way he has throughout the season and undermined his predecessor meant that they first chance given, they'll get the knives out.

Another quote from him today

"People should take an intelligence check. Judging our performance by league position alone is disrespectful."

Will I Amnt

I see plasmaguy is brandishing the ignore hammer again to anyone that disagrees with him in any way
There'll be nothing left for him to read if he keeps going at this rate.

PhlegmyMoses

Dub13 wrote: »

Its dealing with reality unfortunately,nothing to do with our overall ambition.If we were here saying would could still come 4th/5th you would A) say the same and Say we are deluded.

If you are spending £100m on players and £5.5m p/a on your manager, you have to expect a better tilt at CL football, surely? No way you can dress that up.

LuckyLloyd

THFC wrote: »

After Juande Ramos won the CC he proceeded to get 2 points from 24 the following season. 2 seasons on from Spurs, traditionaly a selling club, finishing fourth we still have all our top players and indeed have added some more. CL is far more important than either domestic cup, even than both of them.

Yes, but you are primed to lose your manager and some of those players this season, particularly if your recent patchy form continues and you finish 5th. What has been really achieved by Spurs so far? You remain a club hoping to slug it out for fourth, with no realistic prospects of a league title or meaningful European run. How different is that from Martin Jol's best season?

People are accusing us of short term thinking! Spurs have not set any sort of new standard worth emulating for Liverpool.

LuckyLloyd

KeithAFC wrote: »

Short term thinking. Finishing in the Champions league spots gives you a better platform to get in better players and use it as a spring board to possibly challenge for the title.

There is no guarantee Liverpool will win the FA cup. So is a Carling cup win and finishing 7th to possibly 10th good enough? I don't think so. Not when you consider the money spent and some of the good players you do have.

Gerrard said earlier this season that medals are going to be worth more to him when he retires than top four finishes. Players play to win stuff.

4th hasn't been on the table since Arsenal nicked us in Anfield. As such, it is right that the focus is now the FA Cup.

LuckyLloyd

So, we wanted X in the league and we got Y. The difference between the two is Z.

Z is made up to some extent by B, what has been achieved in the two cup competitions we entered this year.

For sure, Z > B, but not by as much as people wish to suggest in this thread.

Essentially the debate here is not that we have failed to achieve our objectives in the league, it is how much other aspects of Kenny's second reign to date assuage the disappointment caused by same.

Big Pussy Bonpensiero

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Yes, but you are primed to lose your manager and some of those players this season, particularly if your recent patchy form continues and you finish 5th. What has been really achieved by Spurs so far? You remain a club hoping to slug it out for fourth, with no realistic prospects of a league title or meaningful European run. How different is that from Martin Jol's best season?

People are accusing us of short term thinking! Spurs have not set any sort of new standard worth emulating for Liverpool.

Look where we have come from, look where ye have come from. Look where we are now, look where ye are now. Look how much we've spent, look how much ye've spent. Nuff said.

Sgt Pepper 64

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Gerrard said earlier this season that medals are going to be worth more to him when he retires than top four finishes. Players play to win stuff.

4th hasn't been on the table since Arsenal nicked us in Anfield. As such, it is right that the focus is now the FA Cup.

Great, pls have a word with Stevie G to repeat his "backpass" to Chelsea when we play you (Just make sure its not to Torres though, cos he will still cock it up!)

counterlock

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

People are accusing us of short term thinking! Spurs have not set any sort of new standard worth emulating for Liverpool.

I'd much rather be in Spurs position - better quality in the team over overall and with a strong possibility of CL next year. The only downside is that Redknapp is probably gone at the end of the year.

The downside to Liverpool is much more - Europa league next year (get used to 3 matches in 6 days), still need a replacement for Gerrard, need another striker

LuckyLloyd

THFC wrote: »

Look where we have come from, look where ye have come from. Look where we are now, look where ye are now. Look how much we've spent, look how much ye've spent. Nuff said.

But you're satisfied with where you are now? I wouldn't be if I was you. You essentially have nothing to show for your good spell relative to the history of your club, and you haven't exactly established rock solid foundations that would allow this good spell to continue in the medium to long term.

Will I Amnt

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

KeithAFC wrote: »

Short term thinking. Finishing in the Champions league spots gives you a better platform to get in better players and use it as a spring board to possibly challenge for the title.

There is no guarantee Liverpool will win the FA cup. So is a Carling cup win and finishing 7th to possibly 10th good enough? I don't think so. Not when you consider the money spent and some of the good players you do have.

Gerrard said earlier this season that medals are going to be worth more to him when he retires than top four finishes. Players play to win stuff.

4th hasn't been on the table since Arsenal nicked us in Anfield. As such, it is right that the focus is now the FA Cup.

Going in the to the cup game on such a poor run is hardly good for morale.
I'm astonished at people's view that it doesn't matter finishing way down the table as Europa is already secured

LuckyLloyd

counterlock wrote: »

I'd much rather be in Spurs position - better quality in the team over overall and with a strong possibility of CL next year. The only downside is that Redknapp is probably gone at the end of the year.

The downside to Liverpool is much more - Europa league next year (get used to 3 matches in 6 days), still need a replacement for Gerrard, need another striker

So I hear all the time. Yet:

- the management issue is huge;
- CL football for next year is not assured;
- squad contingency for next season is uncertain;
- ticket prices are tapped out; stadium expansion / movement isn't currently on the cards;

Spurs have got to this point through a brilliant strike rate on transfers over the past few years. The return relative to the amount spent and level of players acquired is way above expectation. Gareth Bale's development was also an extraordinary slice of good fortune.

Right now they have a good squad, but it is very foolish indeed to think that their model is sustainable.

ShiverinEskimo

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

But you're satisfied with where you are now? I wouldn't be if I was you. You essentially have nothing to show for your good spell relative to the history of your club, and you haven't exactly established rock solid foundations that would allow this good spell to continue in the medium to long term.

They've taken advantage of Arsenal and Chelsea having poor seasons. Something which despite massive investment Dalglish and Liverpool were a long way off being able to do as it turns out. Chelsea will strengthen this summer and Arsenal are likely to aswell but Spurs should have their CL football which will attract a top manager and players should Redknapp tip on. Liverpool will not attract the kind of talent that will be required to break back into the top 4 for some time if they continue as a mid-table club. Carling cup win or no.

Whatever way you want to factor in a league cup win the fact is Dalglish forked out 100m just to stand still in the league. Spurs look like finishing top 4 in 2 out of 3 seasons - they are infinitely in better shape than Liverpool as things stand.

LuckyLloyd

cambo2008 wrote: »

Going in the to the cup game on such a poor run is hardly good for morale.
I'm astonished at people's view that it doesn't matter finishing way down the table as Europa is already secured

Why are you astonished? Bottom line is that the difference between 5th and 12th is £4m or so in prizemoney (I believe). I'd obviously prefer us to win every game between now and the end of the season, but I know which game (hopefully games!) during that period matter most at this point.

J. Marston

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

If you are spending £100m on players and £5.5m p/a on your manager, you have to expect a better tilt at CL football, surely? No way you can dress that up.

There's no way Dalglish is on £5.5 million a year, is there?

LuckyLloyd

ShiverinEskimo wrote: »

They've taken advantage of Arsenal and Chelsea having poor seasons. Something which despite massive investment Dalglish and Liverpool were a long way off being able to do as it turns out. Chelsea will strengthen this summer and Arsenal are likely to aswell but Spurs should have their CL football which will attract a top manager and players should Redknapp tip on. Liverpool will not attract the kind of talent that will be required to break back into the top 4 for some time if they continue as a mid-table club. Carling cup win or no.

Whatever way you want to factor in a league cup win the fact is Dalglish forked out 100m just to stand still in the league. Spurs look like finishing top 4 in 2 out of 3 seasons - they are infinitely in better shape than Liverpool as things stand.

They'll need the manager to work out and their signings to keep working out to the level they have though. And if they don't hold fourth place, the consequences could be dire.

They have nothing formidable established, and no major trophy (or major trophy challenge) to show for this much admired period.

Big Pussy Bonpensiero

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

But you're satisfied with where you are now? I wouldn't be if I was you. You essentially have nothing to show for your good spell relative to the history of your club, and you haven't exactly established rock solid foundations that would allow this good spell to continue in the medium to long term.

That's not the point of the thread. Stop deflecting attention away from the point of the thread. And fyi, more than happy. There's no such thing as instant success, which I think is the point so many of those defending Dalglish are trying to express.

SlickRic

J. Marston wrote: »

There's no way Dalglish is on £5.5 million a year, is there?

a recent article listing managers' wages around the world suggests he's on £4.7m p/a.

i don't have the article at hand.

so i assume that "£" is meant to be a "€"

amacachi

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

They have nothing formidable established, and no major trophy (or major trophy challenge) to show for this much admired period.

If they win tomorrow they're in the FA Cup semi-final, does that not count as a major trophy challenge to you?

Big Pussy Bonpensiero

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

So I hear all the time. Yet:

- the management issue is huge;
- CL football for next year is not assured;
- squad contingency for next season is uncertain;
- ticket prices are tapped out; stadium expansion / movement isn't currently on the cards;

Spurs have got to this point through a brilliant strike rate on transfers over the past few years. The return relative to the amount spent and level of players acquired is way above expectation. Gareth Bale's development was also an extraordinary slice of good fortune.

Right now they have a good squad, but it is very foolish indeed to think that their model is sustainable.

What an outrageously stupid post. I'm on the phone now so I will address when I go home, but let me get this clear, are you suggesting us developing players and not spending money is unsustainable? So what, you suggest we should splash the cash like Liverpool are?

counterlock

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Right now they have a good squad, but it is very foolish indeed to think that their model is sustainable.

The extra 30 million a year from CL makes it much more sustainable than Liverpool's current model.

Will I Amnt

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Why are you astonished? Bottom line is that the difference between 5th and 12th is £4m or so in prizemoney (I believe). I'd obviously prefer us to win every game between now and the end of the season, but I know which game (hopefully games!) during that period matter most at this point.

Embarassment more than anything.
The league is a foolproof gauge of what kind of season you have had.
You play the same amount of games against the same teams and everybody has to play each other home and away.
A cup run can gloss over these elements.

You only need to look to Bimingham last season to see that.

ShiverinEskimo

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

They'll need the manager to work out and their signings to keep working out to the level they have though. And if they don't hold fourth place, the consequences could be dire.

At the moment there's nothing to say they won't work out.

In the business of the current though it's quite clear that Dalglish and his signings aren't working out to the required level.

As it stands Spurs are healthier. You can try and predict the future all you want but while you're staring into your crystal ball Spurs fans are enjoying 4th place and Liverpool are 7th and the gap to 6th is widening while the gap to 8th is narrowing.

K-9

counterlock wrote: »

I think the sport and pressure on managers has changed too much over the past 25 years for it to be a valid.
Any manager at any club would be under serious pressure if they were in Kennys situation. The fact that he has treated the media the way he has throughout the season and undermined his predecessor meant that they first chance given, they'll get the knives out.

Hodgson came out with some dodgy references originally and basically said Rafa had undermined Kenny, wouldn't believe anything he says tbh. Hodgson undermined himself, he didn't need any help.

Another quote from him today

Yeah, he has a point, it seems Cups are distractions and meaningless going on this thread, I'm sure City thought the same last season.

ShiverinEskimo

K-9 wrote: »

Hodgson came out with some dodgy references originally and basically said Rafa had undermined Kenny, wouldn't believe anything he says tbh. Hodgson undermined himself, he didn't need any help.



Yeah, he has a point, it seems Cups are distractions and meaningless going on this thread, I'm sure City thought the same last season.

City also got a CL place last year. Big big difference.

The cup win meant the 34 years thing was over and was a monkey off their back but don't think for a second that their biggest achievement wasn't their placing in the league.

counterlock

And it was FA cup, and they beat their biggest rivals in the final.

Hodgson is a discussion for another thread I think - 6pts behind you by the way :cool:

PhlegmyMoses

SlickRic wrote: »

a recent article listing managers' wages around the world suggests he's on £4.7m p/a.

i don't have the article at hand.

so i assume that "£" is meant to be a "€"

Yep, both signs should be €

K-9

ShiverinEskimo wrote: »

City also got a CL place last year. Big big difference.

The cup win meant the 34 years thing was over and was a monkey off their back but don't think for a second that their biggest achievement wasn't their placing in the league.

Obviously, that isn't what he is getting at though. A Carling Cup and in March, a cup Semi isn't bad.

counterlock wrote: »

Hodgson is a discussion for another thread I think - 6pts behind you by the way :cool:

Maybe stop quoting him then if you don't want to discuss it or get a blog.

cson

Question for the Liverpool fans; would you rather have had the cup double this season [if it happened] or 3 years of playing Champions League football?

stumpypeeps

I think it would be pointless to sack Dalglish. Give him at least another year. Yes this is a difficult phase but persisting with him is our best chance at long term success.

KeithAFC

Liverpool will not attract the kind of talent that will be required to break back into the top 4 for some time if they continue as a mid-table club. Carling cup win or no.

That is the crux of the matter. Football has changed from the 90s and early 00s.

opr

cson wrote: »

Question for the Liverpool fans; would you rather have had the cup double this season [if it happened] or 3 years of playing Champions League football?

Some important things need to be clarified around this important question.

Do we win any other cups in the other seasons ? You say champions league football. Have we won the league ? Finished second ? How are Man United doing in this time period ? Does Kenny get to remain manager ? Do we win the Champions league when we enter ? Maybe Rafa comes back ?

Opr

Kess73

counterlock wrote: »

The extra 30 million a year from CL makes it much more sustainable than Liverpool's current model.

Not true. One thing that has changed to a massive degree at Liverpool over the past few years is how the club is run in business terms. The club has been dragged into the modern era in terms of sponsorship money etc, and come the summer another big and new sponsorship deal (Warrior) kicks in.

Financially the club is healthier now than it has been for nearly two decades including when it was in the CL on a regular basis.

On the pitch Liverpool are underachieving in the league, but in commercial terms the club is doing very well, something that should become more and more apparant in the coming years.

I think Spurs are a very well run club in commercial terms but I do think that in terms of new growth it may have maxxed out some avenues. It will still remain a well run club though.

stumpypeeps

KeithAFC wrote: »

That is the crux of the matter. Football has changed from the 90s and early 00s.

It's all about the wages that a club can offer in my opinion. Fortunately Liverpool are quite competitive in that department.

Nalz

opr wrote: »

Some important things need to be clarified around this important question.

Do we win any other cups in the other seasons ? You say champions league football. Have we won the league ? Finished second ? How are Man United doing in this time period ? Does Kenny get to remain manager ? Do we win the Champions league when we enter ? Maybe Rafa comes back ?

There's a joke in there right?

Why have you spaces before your question marks?

cson

opr wrote: »

Some important things need to be clarified around this important question.

Do we win any other cups in the other seasons ? You say champions league football. Have we won the league ? Finished second ? How are Man United doing in this time period ? Does Kenny get to remain manager ? Do we win the Champions league when we enter ? Maybe Rafa comes back ?

Opr

Right I'm framing it in the context of next year being the 3rd year Liverpool have been out of the Champions League. So in 3 years of being out of the CL, if you do a Cup double then its better than finishing 3/4th for 3 years.

Obviously the Warrior and Standard Chartered deals you signed recently offset the loss to great extent but at the same time £30m per year for the last 3 years could have the club closer to the top of the league.

Obviously the caveat here is the club was disgracefully run for a couple of years.

KeithAFC

stumpypeeps wrote: »

It's all about the wages that a club can offer in my opinion. Fortunately Liverpool are quite competitive in that department.

Yes, but quality players do want to know if you will be competing at the top level in European football. You could possibly get away with no CL football for a season or even two but if you are struggling to get in after 3-4 seasons, you will struggle to attract the top quality players.

Players will look at that and see which clubs are competing at the highest level in Europe.

plasmaguy

AGC wrote: »

Page 44 to save you thrwaling through your posts.

Oh, I didn't realise the grammar police were monitoring this thread.

I guess you aren't happy with the way I phrased it, since technically 1 trophy more is the equivalent of winning more trophies, just as to say if I own one apple and you none, I own more apples than you. I suppose it's pointless arguing though.

The League Cup is far from the mickey mouse tournament people like to portray it, Arsenal tried their best to win it last year, Spurs were delighted winning it a few years ago, as was Sir Alex and Man Utd in 2009.

Sad to see some Liverpool fans denigrating their own league cup success.

stumpypeeps

KeithAFC wrote: »

Yes, but quality players do want to know if you will be competing at the top level in European football. You could possibly get away with no CL football for a season or even two but if you are struggling to get in after 3-4 seasons, you will struggle to attract the top quality players.

Players will look at that and see which clubs are competing at the highest level in Europe.

I would have to agree with that assessment. The owners need to think long and hard this summer. Back Dalglish and give him the time to achieve greater performance or consider replacing him. Should they replace him, they need to be certain the incumbent will bring improvement.

Mr Alan

SlickRic wrote: »

but yes, the last couple months have to cause me to move camp. it's not all down to luck, etc, which Kenny seems to bemoan a lot. there's a point at which something isn't right.

So you do agree. Your opinion has changed in the last 2 months. Over a series of games (Arsenal & QPR) where tbh, the manager couldn't have done anything more really.

I agree something isn't right.

It's the footballing trend though of sacking the manager whenever "something isn't right" is what the issue is here.

Whoever replaces him, unless he gets CL football in the first year as well as a 100% hit rate in the transfer market will be subject to the same constant, "something isn't right" lark. We had it with Benitez when he was killing half of Europe ffs. Idiots.

SlickRic wrote: »

as you well know, i simply don't know if I want Kenny to stay on. firstly, because his use of £85m was hap-hazard at best, plain horrendous at worst, and secondly, because i just don't know if he's capable at managing at this level anymore. he has to prove it.

Did he not prove that he still had it last season when he came in?

This is why we gave him the job afterall?

Even up to Jan, we were there or thereabouts where we wanted to be in regards to the league & were doing well enough to think we'd be challenging for the CL places come the seasons end.

Again, I reiterate this, it's the last 10 games that are the issue. The form we have is shocking. If we win against Arsenal & QPR, two pretty freaky games, we're right in it. The margin in those games was so minimal, so so minimal, calls for a sacking or even serious consideration of it because of it is genuinely insanity to me.

I'm not sure myself if Kenny is going to be the man to bring us where we want to be, but **** me, the improvement in the teams play, the end of last season, the cups and the majority of this season where we were there or thereabouts are reason enough to not throw the baby out with the bathwater. He deserves more than a season to see if he is that man. Constant criticism & thinly disguised calls for his head help no one & actually make his job much more difficult.

SlickRic wrote: »

and a Carling Cup win (see Birmingham), and an FA Cup run (see Bolton last year) are not automatically a sign that we're on the right path.

They are not assurances or anything of the sort, but they are decent signs none the less. No?

SlickRic wrote: »

and i don't see what's wrong with that position, and there are some who seem to ridicule that position.

When it becomes sustained, tbh, it makes the managers job unsustainable. It's part of the reason modern football is ****ed. Once it reaches a certain level, imo

SlickRic wrote: »

he's steadied the boat, but in essence, that is all he seems to have really done. he's done the job Roy was supposed to do. but Kenny has to prove he can get us to the next level, and the signs have to get better.

Well the signs are as such imo;

-vastly improved performances
-improved results
-cup win
-semi final of another cup to come
-loss of majorly important players for massive chunks of season(Gerrard/Lucas/Suarez/Agger)

Saying he's steadied the ship, when in reality, he's won a trophy in his first season, and has a good chance of winning another is a little disingenuous. But tbh, I think "steadying the ship" in his first full season at the club isn't the worst in the world. Steadied the ship & won a trophy? Even better? Steadied the ship & a good chance of winning 2 trophies?! Hell yes!

SlickRic wrote: »

Kenny's a club legend and always will be, but do you believe any of the top clubs would be falling over themselves to get Kenny Dalglish in if he were out of work tomorrow?

1) We are not a top club anymore. People need to stop operating under that assumption. We really really aren't. As much as it hurts me to say it.

2) I see the point you're trying to make, and it's a decent one tbf, however, it is somewhat different. Trying to compare Kenny Dalglish's situation with Liverpool to any other club is folly in the extreme. Kenny is a proven excellent manager - already this season, he's won more than Hodge has in any top league throughout his illustrious career. Kenny was a top manager who was in retirement, he came out of retirement for Liverpool when we needed him because, without sounding bent, he loves us. The connection wouldn't be the same with any other club therefore the question is somewhat moot. However, now as soon as the ship is perceived to be "steadied" we wanna **** him off so some shiney new foreign manager the same people are gonna piss and moan over? No thanks. I'd prefer to give the man a chance to try and do his job.

And by "a chance", i mean more than one season, cause 1) I'm not a Chelsea fan and 2) I'm not a Russian oil billionaire.