Are Kenny Dalglish and Liverpool Done?

~Rebel~

Why pray tell is Kuyt suddenly going to score all these european goals for us?

I mean, I love superman and everything, and he was massive in Europe for us in his first two seasons, but at the same time, in 6 Europa League games last seasons he got 1 goal. And in 6 Champions League games the previous season, he got 1 goal.

No, something's amiss here.

I call shenanigans.

That_Guy

mixednuts wrote: »

The article seems more like sour grapes to me .

Eh, he was responsible for dismantling one of, if not the best side we've ever had. From Champions League to 13th place and replacing Ginola, Ferdinand and Beardsley with unproven players like Hamilton and Brady.

His tenure at Newcastle was a shambles.

Flancrest

~Rebel~ wrote: »

Why pray tell is Kuyt suddenly going to score all these european goals for us?

I mean, I love superman and everything, and he was massive in Europe for us in his first two seasons, but at the same time, in 6 Europa League games last seasons he got 1 goal. And in 6 Champions League games the previous season, he got 1 goal.

No, something's amiss here.

I call shenanigans.

I'm not saying he could do this in every European game. But against United or City with the extra time on the ball there is no reason he couldn't.

SlickRic

Flancrest wrote: »

I'm not saying he could do this in every European game. But against United or City with the extra time on the ball there is no reason he couldn't.

there is no extra time on the ball.

it's a myth that stems from a few years ago, it doesn't exist today.

and even at that, it didn't exist to the level that many think it did.

Sappy404

Giggsy11 wrote: »

There are few more too,

"Milan are slow and ageing side" "Serie A is too slow" "La Liga defense is poor", so many to make anyone believe Premier League is the best.

One of the worst perpetuators of this nonsense is RTE. Allowing Dunphy to editorialise the way he does, week in week out, with some extreme absolutist bullshít or other.

"Italian football is on the wane, Bill". Cue Arsenal and Chelsea getting thumped in Italy.

"Arsene Wenger is finished, Bill". Cue Arsenal's best run of form in years.

etc.

That_Guy

Sappy404 wrote: »

One of the worst perpetuators of this nonsense is RTE. Allowing Dunphy to editorialise the way he does, week in week out, with some extreme absolutist bullshít or other.

"Italian football is on the wane, Bill". Cue Arsenal and Chelsea getting thumped in Italy.

"Arsene Wenger is finished, Bill". Cue Arsenal's best run of form in years.

etc.

Dunphy is a WUM. Simple as. Always has, always will be. I find it hilarious that people still get annoyed over stupid things he says. That's what he's there for.

Sgt Pepper 64

Sappy404 wrote: »

One of the worst perpetuators of this nonsense is RTE. Allowing Dunphy to editorialise the way he does, week in week out, with some extreme absolutist bullshít or other.

"Italian football is on the wane, Bill". Cue Arsenal and Chelsea getting thumped in Italy.

"Arsene Wenger is finished, Bill". Cue Arsenal's best run of form in years.

etc.

Just need Dunphy to say

"Chelsea will never win the CL, Bill"

Flancrest

Sgt Pepper 64 wrote: »

Just need Dunphy to say

"Chelsea will never win the CL, Bill"

Didn't realise this was a thread about the genius that is Eammon Dunphy.


You've jumped over the fence baby!!!!!!!!!

~Rebel~

Flancrest wrote: »

I'm not saying he could do this in every European game. But against United or City with the extra time on the ball there is no reason he couldn't.

SlickRic wrote: »

there is no extra time on the ball.

it's a myth that stems from a few years ago, it doesn't exist today.

and even at that, it didn't exist to the level that many think it did.

And why, especially, in God's name would those two sides decide to just give Liverpool extra time on the ball anyway?!

You say there's no reason why he wouldn't pop in a rake of goals against those two sides, simply because the name of the competition would have changed?

It just doesn't make sense.

In 7 matches against those two teams, across 3 competitions this season thus far, he's scored 1 goal.

And yet, we change the title from FA, PL or CC to EL and he's banging them in? Just don't see your logic, sorry.

Flancrest

~Rebel~ wrote: »

And why, especially, in God's name would those two sides decide to just give Liverpool extra time on the ball anyway?!

You say there's no reason why he wouldn't pop in a rake of goals against those two sides, simply because the name of the competition would have changed?

It just doesn't make sense.

In 7 matches against those two teams, across 3 competitions this season thus far, he's scored 1 goal.

And yet, we change the title from FA, PL or CC to EL and he's banging them in? Just don't see your logic, sorry.

If you read my posts you will see I've come to this conclusion based on the tactics implemented by Ferguson and Mancini when playing in European competitions

Sappy404

Sgt Pepper 64 wrote: »

Just need Dunphy to say

"Chelsea will never win the CL, Bill"

Sure Didier Drogba's a donkey, Bill. He should be sent to the knacker's yard.

Dr Galen

Maybe.....when they are playing Continental opposition

If they were playing us, then it'd be an FA Cup game

Flancrest

Dr Galen wrote: »

Maybe.....when they are playing Continental opposition

If they were playing us, then it'd be an FA Cup game

I think you'll find it would still be a european game and would have no bearing on the outcome of the FA cup

sReq | uTeK

Flancrest wrote: »

If you read my posts you will see I've come to this conclusion based on the tactics implemented by Ferguson and Mancini when playing in European competitions

STOP!!! Posting now, you're embaressing yourself.

Dr Galen

Flancrest wrote: »

I think you'll find it would still be a european game and would have no bearing on the outcome of the FA cup

It would be an English style game is what I meant and you know this. I used the FA Cup analogy as it's another cup competition.

Why, when playing another English side, would Utd or City change their tactics to play as if they were playing AC Milan?

SlickRic

Flancrest wrote: »

If you read my posts you will see I've come to this conclusion based on the tactics implemented by Ferguson and Mancini when playing in European competitions

they would not approach a game with us the same way they approach a "European team".

their tactics against us in a European competition won't change just because it'd be in a European competition and not in the league. you do know that, don't you?

as in, it's not like it gets to the Champions League and/or Europa League, and a switch goes off in these teams' heads, no matter who they're playing, to just sit back (which we've already established doesn't happen like you say it does). they'll address each team on its merits.

my head hurts

Flancrest

sReq | uTeK wrote: »

STOP!!! Posting now, you're embaressing yourself.

Not as much as your spelling is EMBARRASSING you

markie29

some of the posts on this forum are becoming more and more cringeworthy every day

RasTa

Has SOTS finally returned?

sReq | uTeK

Flancrest wrote: »

Not as much as your spelling is EMBARRASSING you

Sorry I was on an iphone, regardless of a grammatical error, your theory’s and notions are horrendously awful but keep them coming, you know that old saying and all that.

"Every statement you make brightens my day but lessens my existence" As I'm having a pretty ****ty day I'll take all the giggles I can get even at the expense of some long term injury

Sgt Pepper 64

SlickRic wrote: »

they would not approach a game with us the same way they approach a "European team".

their tactics against us in a European competition won't change just because it'd be in a European competition and not in the league. you do know that, don't you?

as in, it's not like it gets to the Champions League and/or Europa League, and a switch goes off in these teams' heads, no matter who they're playing, to just sit back (which we've already established doesn't happen like you say it does). they'll address each team on its merits.

my head hurts

I was going to post the same but thought "surely thats too obvious"

Obviously not!

Anyway, both city and utd, either rested certain players or were forced to due to injury against "lesser sides" and that came back to bite em a bit

Flancrest

SlickRic wrote: »

they would not approach a game with us the same way they approach a "European team".

their tactics against us in a European competition won't change just because it'd be in a European competition and not in the league. you do know that, don't you?

as in, it's not like it gets to the Champions League and/or Europa League, and a switch goes off in these teams' heads, no matter who they're playing, to just sit back (which we've already established doesn't happen like you say it does). they'll address each team on its merits.

my head hurts

The tactics will change as both managers approach to European ties is different to PL and FA Cup games. The opposition has no bearing on this

kryogen

Flancrest wrote: »

The tactics will change as both managers approach to European ties is different to PL and FA Cup games. The opposition has no bearing on this

You do know that English teams have met each other in Europe in the past don't you?

SlickRic

Flancrest wrote: »

The tactics will change as both managers approach to European ties is different to PL and FA Cup games. The opposition has no bearing on this

the opposition has no bearing on the tactics?

so it's purely the competition that dictates a team's tactics?

for the love of Christ Almighty and all that is good and holy...i have no words, and i may get a migraine if i go on.

Flancrest

kryogen wrote: »

You do know that English teams have met each other in Europe in the past don't you?

I am aware of this but fail to see the reason for your post.

Flancrest

SlickRic wrote: »

the opposition has no bearing on the tactics?

so it's purely the competition that dictates a team's tactics?

for the love of Christ Almighty and all that is good and holy...i have no words, and i may get a migraine if i go on.

Exactly. Managers mainly adjust tactics for competitions. Clearly visible in Cup games where teams are afraid of giving away goals

kryogen

Flancrest wrote: »

I am aware of this but fail to see the reason for your post.

Thats probably the crux of why you are failing so much here

I am pie

Flancrest wrote: »

The tactics will change as both managers approach to European ties is different to PL and FA Cup games. The opposition has no bearing on this

In fact the exact opposite is the case. Managers adopt tactics based on the opposition.

Wow. Just wow. Serious question....what age are you? Very curious? Would Liverpool 2007 / 2008 / 2005 champs league ties against English clubs been before your time?

bucketybuck

For the love of god, why do people respond to what are obvious WUM's? The guy couldn't make it any more obvious, yet still people fall for it.

Flancrest

I am pie wrote: »

In fact the exact opposite is the case. Managers adopt tactics based on the opposition.

Wow. Just wow. Serious question....what age are you? Very curious? Would Liverpool 2007 / 2008 / 2005 champs league ties against English clubs been before your time?

No I'm 26 I remember those games very well.
Only managers of poorer teams adjust tactics depending on opposition.
Liverpool would never be the poorer team in a Europa League tie

Will I Amnt

I can't believe this,I really can't.
Let me get it straight.
Ferguson and Mancini would play their "European game"(the style they have adapted to play in Europe as the game is played at a different pace and focuses more on possession etc.)against Liverpool,a team from the very league they have to make this change in their game from.

Flancrest

bucketybuck wrote: »

For the love of god, why do people respond to what are obvious WUM's? The guy couldn't make it any more obvious, yet still people fall for it.

Why would you assume I'm a WUM. Just because my opinion may not be the same as yours doesn't mean I'm a WUM

SlickRic

Flancrest wrote: »

Exactly. Managers mainly adjust tactics for competitions. Clearly visible in Cup games where teams are afraid of giving away goals

so you ARE serious?

this isn't a matter of opinion. this is not a debatable point. you are just plain wrong. no ifs. no buts. you're wrong.

managers take the competition into account sometimes, in terms of which competitions mean more to them than others, and if there's a game coming up soon that they have to cater for. yes, that happens.

but in no way, shape or form is the competition the main reason for tactics. tactics, i'll say again, that don't exist remember. European teams don't "sit back". that's bollocks. they sit back as much as Villa do. or Wigan do. or Sunderland do. or Liverpool do. or any team does where it's necessary or part of the gameplan to combat the team they're playing. they don't decide "because it's Europe" we're going to change. and i won't even get into the point about City and United playing Liverpool differently in a European competition purely because it's in that competition, and they've bought into some false philosophy that European teams "play this way". utter nonsense.

again, this isn't opinion. you're just plain wrong.

Kenny is not catering for this way of playing. that's just a nonsensical viewpoint completely, and a fairly weird excuse for Adam and Downing's failings thus far.

Flancrest

cambo2008 wrote: »

I can't believe this,I really can't.
Let me get it straight.
Ferguson and Mancini would play their "European game"(the style they have adapted to play in Europe as the game is played at a different pace and focuses more on possession etc.)against Liverpool,a team from the very league they have to make this change in their game from.

Again their tactics are mainly based on the competition and not on the opposition. League status would have no bearing on this

I am pie

Flancrest wrote: »

No I'm 26 I remember those games very well.
Only managers of poorer teams adjust tactics depending on opposition.
Liverpool would never be the poorer team in a Europa League tie

It's just that you fail to see the complete an utter insanity of what your saying then is it? Grand so. At least that's cleared up.

Hint. Those previous games were not really any different to League games in pace and general tactics, therefore your point is nonsense.

And, as a Liverpool fan I would have to remind you as much as it may dismay you we have not won a european trophy since 2005. Therefore, Einstein, we frequently been the poor side in European competitions.

Hats off for derailing this thread from the Sack Kenny brigade. That can surely be your own motivation for your surreal posts ! Well done sir.

bucketybuck

Personally as a Utd I cannot wait for next years Champions league. The slower pace of play there is going to suit Giggs and Scholes down to the ground. I cannot see any teams beating us there.

kryogen

Flancrest wrote: »

No I'm 26 I remember those games very well.
Only managers of poorer teams adjust tactics depending on opposition.
Liverpool would never be the poorer team in a Europa League tie

lol

I like you.

Will I Amnt

Flancrest wrote: »

Again their tactics are mainly based on the competition and not on the opposition. League status would have no bearing on this

sReq | uTeK

I don't know what european football you're watching perhaps teams sat back in the early 90s as it was a new game adapting to european football but EVERYTEAM in europe is all about pressure high up the pitch and hunting in packs, this is easily visible in ANY of barcelona's games a tactic they've adopted since they've dominated club football, a tactic they also use in LA Liga.

It was the same when athletico madrid came to england to play united.

United don't go into european games and go, right time to play like we did back in 1994 lets stick 10 people behind the ball and let them pass it left and right but nothing will penetrate, they may come out with a more defensive team to try and stop the Home team from scoring but hey will still PRESS the ball as ALL teams do now "refer to previous paragraph"

Do you think fergie goes to himself ' **** we're playing liverpool in the champions league at old trafford, right new tactics as apposed to this is the premierleague, lets let them have plenty of time on the ball so that dirk 'lugs' kyut can score.

LOL, go back to sleep you donkey.

Xavi6

citytillidie wrote: »

Just linking that site made the article a joke

The name of the site doesn't change the quotes, anything to dismiss criticism of Kenneth eh?

But here's the original article anyway -

http://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/newcastle-united/nufc-news/2012/03/28/asprilla-how-dalglish-destroyed-the-entertainers-72703-30640337/

I am pie

Xavi6 wrote: »

The name of the site doesn't change the quotes, anything to dismiss criticism of Kenneth eh?

But here's the original article anyway -

http://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/newcastle-united/nufc-news/2012/03/28/asprilla-how-dalglish-destroyed-the-entertainers-72703-30640337/

Perhaps you could send us some other interesting criticisms of managers from around 15 years ago. I imagine they would also be relevant. Spice those ones up to by ensuring a complete charlatan is the source of the article.

Anything for a bit of Kenny bashing eh?

PhlegmyMoses

I am pie wrote: »

Perhaps you could send us some other interesting criticisms of managers from around 15 years ago. I imagine they would also be relevant. Spice those ones up to by ensuring a complete charlatan is the source of the article.

Anything for a bit of Kenny bashing eh?

It's a thread criticising Dalglish. Why would he provide quotes about other managers and derail a serious thread?

Flancrest

SlickRic wrote: »

so you ARE serious?

this isn't a matter of opinion. this is not a debatable point. you are just plain wrong. no ifs. no buts. you're wrong.

managers take the competition into account sometimes, in terms of which competitions mean more to them than others, and if there's a game coming up soon that they have to cater for. yes, that happens.

but in no way, shape or form is the competition the main reason for tactics. tactics, i'll say again, that don't exist remember. European teams don't "sit back". that's bollocks. they sit back as much as Villa do. or Wigan do. or Sunderland do. or Liverpool do. or any team does where it's necessary or part of the gameplan to combat the team they're playing. they don't decide "because it's Europe" we're going to change. and i won't even get into the point about City and United playing Liverpool differently in a European competition purely because it's in that competition, and they've bought into some false philosophy that European teams "play this way". utter nonsense.

again, this isn't opinion. you're just plain wrong.

Kenny is not catering for this way of playing. that's just a nonsensical viewpoint completely, and a fairly weird excuse for Adam and Downing's failings thus far.

So should I call you Alex or Roberto because the only way this can be fact is if you are indeed the manager of United or City

plasmaguy

I reckon a 45 year old Giggs and a 44 year old Scholes will still be playing and pulling the strings at league and CL level in a few years, the way things are going.

SlickRic

Flancrest wrote: »

So should I call you Alex or Roberto because the only way this can be fact is if you are indeed the manager of United or City

it's common sense.

you play the team, not the competition.

kryogen

Flancrest wrote: »

So should I call you Alex or Roberto because the only way this can be fact is if you are indeed the manager of United or City

Nobody could miss the point that much by accident.

Has to be on purpose, I really like you.

Will I Amnt

plasmaguy wrote: »

I reckon

That's usually where you go wrong

Sgt Pepper 64

Flancrest wrote: »

Again their tactics are mainly based on the competition and not on the opposition. League status would have no bearing on this

If you keep saying it, wil it be true?

Flancrest

SlickRic wrote: »

it's common sense.

you play the team, not the competition.

Again this is your opinion. Not one that is shared by many people with a vast knowledge of football management

SlickRic

i don't care what you say. the primary thing a manager looks at for a game against a team is NOT the competition they are playing in.

it's just preposterous. completely and utterly preposterous.