Are Kenny Dalglish and Liverpool Done?

Chucky the tree

noodler wrote: »

??

So we were in relegation form when Roy was sacked...we are in relegation form now.

We had a very real possibility of being sacked under Roy, we haven't and never had under Kenny.

Mr Alan

mike65 wrote: »

won't be enough to assuage the concerns some of us have about Dalglish and his ability to oversee a league campaign.

Nothing would be Mike.

A good portion of our fans were crying for Rafa's head when he has us competing for the league title for crying out loud.

At one stage you GENUINELY wanted Big Mick to get the job. Others wanted Owen Coyle. Others Martin O'Neill. Now some will want Brendan Rogers.

Strange breed the modern football fan.

busyliving

Henderson at fault for the first QPR goal...shocking...his useless

noodler

Mr Alan wrote: »

Nothing would be Mike.

A good portion of our fans were crying for Rafa's head when he has us competing for the league title for crying out loud.

??

You are reaching, really reaching for a way to justify your support for another season of Premiership football under Kenny.

Jesus Wept

fml, he wasn't given funds.

Signed sh1te players: yes
Given £100m, no.
Should be let go: yes.

Proceed.

TheDoc

J. Marston wrote: »

This gave me the biggest lol of the week, excellent work

Xavi6

mike65 wrote: »

Hodgson was bad and an outsider!

So being an insider is a requirement to grace the hallowed turf of Anfield?

Mr Alan

noodler wrote: »

??

You are reaching, really reaching for a way to justify your support for another season of Premiership football under Kenny.

You were one of them iirc.

I'm reaching for nothing, if Kenny wants to stay for next season, he'll stay. It's as simple as that.

Mr.Nice Guy

rossie1977 wrote: »

why should there be, last year liverpool were 2nd from bottom for over a month of the season, they were played off the park at home to wolves and blackpool and knocked out of league cup by northampton of the lowest tier, when hodgson left liverpool there were 4 points from relegation and their fans were dreading having to go to old trafford to face man utd in the cup, some thinking it could be double figures

Hang on, is Liverpool's league position last season still being blamed on Hodgson?

Hodgson went to West Brom, a team with a far inferior squad to Liverpool, and they haven't been embroiled in any relegation battle. In fact, they are just 6 points behind Liverpool at the moment. That in itself is extraordinary.

The idea that Hodgson was holding Liverpool back has been shown to be a myth imo. As far as I see it the players were at fault last season and the players are at fault this season.

bookie basher

its obvious liverpool need massive investment in the summer to be competitive,
6 players are needed imo, but do liverpool fans actually trust kenny if he is given the funds in the summers to bring in the right players and then get the best out of them?

mike65

Mr Alan wrote: »

Nothing would be Mike.

A good portion of our fans were crying for Rafa's head when he has us competing for the league title for crying out loud.

At one stage you GENUINELY wanted Big Mick to get the job. Others wanted Owen Coyle. Others Martin O'Neill. Now some will want Brendan Rogers.

Strange breed the modern football fan.

Are you going to keep throwing that back at me? Why not address the matter at hand? A league season that has gone down the pan. Fancy more of that next season? More weird subs, more Charlie Adam, more Jamie Carragher? More questionable tactics, formations and summer transfers?

Helix

is anyone really surprised that a relic like kenny couldn't adapt to the modern game? weren't people telling liverpool fans that this reeked of keggy at newcastle from the start like

firemansam4

Kenny ain't going anywhere, yes are league results of late have been disastrous but we are not really being outplayed by any teams out there at the moment.
It would be madness to sack Kenny now and it will solve nothing, if anything it will make matters much worse, the last thing the club needs now is less stability.
He at least deserves til next season and I really think with 1 or 2 signings things will look a lot better for us next season.
As for this season we have our first cup in 6 years and a great chance of getting another!

mike65

Xavi6 wrote: »

So being an insider is a requirement to grace the hallowed turf of Anfield?

Wise up to the point! Its far easier you are Kenny Dalglish and say the right things. Hodgson spent most of his time saying the wrong things and burnt his bridges pretty quickly as a result. Anyway thats old news.

Dalglish is probably a goner in truth. The next manager will need to be young and probably of a very different "type" - technical.

noodler

Mr Alan wrote: »

You were one of them iirc.

I'm reaching for nothing, if Kenny wants to stay for next season, he'll stay. It's as simple as that.

I certainly wasn't looking for Rafa to be sacked the season we finished 2nd so please stop throwing endless amounts of mud in the vain hope something, anything, will stick.

I admit to being disillusioned with him towards the end of the following season.

smokedeels

Maybe the owners of the club are happy with a League Cup and a top-half finish. Did the club mention CL football as much as the media and fans?

Did people, Pool fans or otherwise think that squad could finish above United, City, Chelsea, Spurs and Arsenal?

The fact that Liverpool didn't buy another striker in January, even a cheap one who might grab a few goals tells me the club are happy with their position.

I think he will stay. If as I'm guessing, they are where they should be.

klose

bookie basher wrote: »

its obvious liverpool need massive investment in the summer to be competitive,
6 players are needed imo, but do liverpool fans actually trust kenny if he is given the funds in the summers to bring in the right players and then get the best out of them?

Not after last summers window no, needs a stiff kick up the arse if he stays for the next one.
As crazy as it sounds id say spend most of the budget on a big name guarenteed goalscorer, thats our biggest problem (obviously) Feck this 4-2-3-1 lark, classic 4-4-2 with suarez who is more of a playmaker.

Jesus Wept

smokedeels wrote: »

Did people, Pool fans or otherwise think that squad could finish above United, City, Chelsea, Spurs and Arsenal?

I don't think anyone think the squad could finish above them all.

The rest of your post is equally terrible.

Mr Alan

noodler wrote: »

I certainly wasn't looking for Rafa to be sacked the season we finished 2nd so please stop throwing endless amounts of mud in the vain hope something, anything, will stick.

I admit to being disillusioned with him towards the end of the following season.

You were questioning whether it not he should be sacked after he sent Keane back to Spurs. Stop telling porkies Noodler.

And yes Mike, I'll continue to throw that back in your face. It was a lol-tastic moment & summed up the kneejerkish hysteria that is too common amongst football fans.

Yes, I want us to improve in the league next year. I want to see if Kenny can build on the promising signs we've seen this season & make us a force. If he can't, so be it, but let's not scrap the notion of it in his first season in charge (a season in which we may well end up with 2 trophies).

Orando Broom

bookie basher wrote: »

its obvious liverpool need massive investment in the summer to be competitive,
6 players are needed imo, but do liverpool fans actually trust kenny if he is given the funds in the summers to bring in the right players and then get the best out of them?

Sure. Why not? He can pick up Roger Johnson for seven or eight mil; he's English, Jermaine Jenas an Steve Sidwell could be got for roughly 15m apiece, both English. Sam Ricketts is sorta English, a bargain at 6m. Karl Henry for 10m and David Dunn for 25m would round out the spending. All English all fitting into the Liverpool philosophy, passing and moving in grooves.

Kenny Dalglish is a double agent. FACT.

noodler

Mr Alan wrote: »

You were questioning whether it not he should be sacked after he sent Keane back to Spurs. Stop telling porkies Noodler.

No, you are confusing criticism with wanting him sacked.

Stop telling porkies Alan.

The following season, after we we fell against Lyon AND failed to finish in the top 4, I thought the time was right for a change.

smokedeels

The-Rigger wrote: »

I don't think anyone think the squad could finish above them all.

The rest of your post is equally terrible.

I worded it badly, I meant finish within the top four, so above two of them. What's so terrible about that question, do you think Liverpool have a better squad than any of those sides?

I'm not slagging them off I'm just wondering if too much is being asked of Kenny and his squad.

mike65

Far too much is being asked, as the squad was badly augmented in the summer and the manager is regressing.

Mr Alan

noodler wrote: »

The following season, after we we fell against Lyon AND failed to finish in the top 4, I thought the time was right for a change.

And how spectacularly wrong you were.

niallo27

noodler wrote: »

No, you are confusing criticism with wanting him sacked.

Stop telling porkies Alan.

The following season, after we we fell against Lyon AND failed to finish in the top 4, I thought the time was right for a change.

No no no after all that was happening at the club at the time, he deserved a chance with new owners.

Jesus Wept

smokedeels wrote: »

I worded it badly, I meant finish within the top four, so above two of them. What's so terrible about that question, do you think Liverpool have a better squad than any of those sides?

I'm not slagging them off I'm just wondering if too much is being asked of Kenny and his squad.

Fair enough, no I don't think we do currently. We've had some key injury problems but quality cover. We have some players who are playing below what they are capable of and we have some players who shouldn't be in the squad.

noodler

Mr Alan wrote: »

And how spectacularly wrong you were.

Meh.

Roy had relegation form for his first 6 months - Kenny is having relegation form for his last six months.

At least Roy didn't waste all the money we got from selling our best assets.

Anyway, as much as I'd love Rafa back to stabilise things now, I am not sure, given how his time at Inter went, if he had the stomach for another season.

Anyway, thats neither here nor there, the issue is Kenny right now despite your attempts to muddy the waters.

Mr Alan

noodler wrote: »

Roy had relegation form for his first 6 months - Kenny is having relegation form for his last six months.

6 months relegation form under Kenny?

Really?

Will I Amnt

Dalglish might be out of touch with the modern game but in fairness if Liverpool had a forward in the mould of RVP,Rooney or Aguero they would be right up there fighting it out for 3rd/4th rather than 6th/7th.

Nalz

Mr Alan wrote: »

6 months relegation form under Kenny?

Really?

October to March - 7 league wins. Not really relegation form but close enought


8 15-Oct-11 H Manchester United D 1-1 (0-0) Gerrard 68 45,065
9 22-Oct-11 H Norwich City D 1-1 (1-0) Bellamy 45 44,931
10 29-Oct-11 A West Bromwich Albion W 2-0 (2-0) Adam 9p; Carroll 45 25,522
11 05-Nov-11 H Swansea City D 0-0 (0-0) 45,013
12 20-Nov-11 A Chelsea W 2-1 (1-0) Rodriguez 33; Johnson 87 41,820
13 27-Nov-11 H Manchester City D 1-1 (1-1) Lescott(og) 33 45,071
14 05-Dec-11 A Fulham L 0-1 (0-0) 25,688
15 10-Dec-11 H Queens Park Rangers W 1-0 (0-0) Suarez 47 45,016
16 18-Dec-11 A Aston Villa W 2-0 (2-0) Bellamy 11; Skrtel 15 37,460
17 21-Dec-11 A Wigan Athletic D 0-0 (0-0) 19,230
18 26-Dec-11 H Blackburn Rovers D 1-1 (0-1) Rodriguez 53 44,441
19 30-Dec-11 H Newcastle United W 3-1 (1-1) Bellamy 29, 67; Gerrard 78 44,372
20 03-Jan-12 A Manchester City L 0-3 (0-2) 47,131
21 14-Jan-12 H Stoke City D 0-0 (0-0) 44,691
22 21-Jan-12 A Bolton Wanderers L 1-3 (1-2) Bellamy 37 26,854
23 31-Jan-12 A Wolverhampton Wndrs W 3-0 (0-0) Carroll 52; Bellamy 61; Kuyt 78 27,447
24 06-Feb-12 H Tottenham Hotspur D 0-0 (0-0) 44,461
25 11-Feb-12 A Manchester United L 1-2 (0-0) Suarez 80 74,844
26 03-Mar-12 H Arsenal L 1-2 (1-1) Koscielny(og) 23 44,922
27 10-Mar-12 A Sunderland L 0-1 (0-0) 41,661
28 13-Mar-12 H Everton W 3-0 (1-0) Gerrard 34, 51, 90 44,921
29 21-Mar-12 A Queens Park Rangers L 2-3 (0-0) Coates 54; Kuyt 72 18,033

Nalz

Trilla wrote: »

October to March - 7 league wins. Not really relegation form but close enough

Actually Bolton have won 6 games in the same time period so I take that back!

Mr Alan

cambo2008 wrote: »

Dalglish might be out of touch with the modern game but in fairness if Liverpool had a forward in the mould of RVP,Rooney or Aguero they would be right up there fighting it out for 3rd/4th rather than 6th/7th.

Exactly. And this is what we need to address in the summer.

There's a lot right at Liverpool. Throwing the baby out with the bathwater, like we did with Rafa, would be a massive mistake.

Kneejerkish in the extreme. Take Noodler, a few posts ago he says it was right Rafa was sacked. Couple of posts later implies he'd want him back now. Very strange.

mike65

http://www.statto.com/football/teams/liverpool/2011-2012/results

12 points since Chrimbo

willmunny1990

Trilla wrote: »

October to March - 7 league wins. Not really relegation form but close enought


8 15-Oct-11 H Manchester United D 1-1 (0-0) Gerrard 68 45,065
9 22-Oct-11 H Norwich City D 1-1 (1-0) Bellamy 45 44,931
10 29-Oct-11 A West Bromwich Albion W 2-0 (2-0) Adam 9p; Carroll 45 25,522
11 05-Nov-11 H Swansea City D 0-0 (0-0) 45,013
12 20-Nov-11 A Chelsea W 2-1 (1-0) Rodriguez 33; Johnson 87 41,820
13 27-Nov-11 H Manchester City D 1-1 (1-1) Lescott(og) 33 45,071
14 05-Dec-11 A Fulham L 0-1 (0-0) 25,688
15 10-Dec-11 H Queens Park Rangers W 1-0 (0-0) Suarez 47 45,016
16 18-Dec-11 A Aston Villa W 2-0 (2-0) Bellamy 11; Skrtel 15 37,460
17 21-Dec-11 A Wigan Athletic D 0-0 (0-0) 19,230
18 26-Dec-11 H Blackburn Rovers D 1-1 (0-1) Rodriguez 53 44,441
19 30-Dec-11 H Newcastle United W 3-1 (1-1) Bellamy 29, 67; Gerrard 78 44,372
20 03-Jan-12 A Manchester City L 0-3 (0-2) 47,131
21 14-Jan-12 H Stoke City D 0-0 (0-0) 44,691
22 21-Jan-12 A Bolton Wanderers L 1-3 (1-2) Bellamy 37 26,854
23 31-Jan-12 A Wolverhampton Wndrs W 3-0 (0-0) Carroll 52; Bellamy 61; Kuyt 78 27,447
24 06-Feb-12 H Tottenham Hotspur D 0-0 (0-0) 44,461
25 11-Feb-12 A Manchester United L 1-2 (0-0) Suarez 80 74,844
26 03-Mar-12 H Arsenal L 1-2 (1-1) Koscielny(og) 23 44,922
27 10-Mar-12 A Sunderland L 0-1 (0-0) 41,661
28 13-Mar-12 H Everton W 3-0 (1-0) Gerrard 34, 51, 90 44,921
29 21-Mar-12 A Queens Park Rangers L 2-3 (0-0) Coates 54; Kuyt 72 18,033

29 points out of 66.

wow, 1.3 points a game. thats worse than Hodgson's 6 months.

DB10

cambo2008 wrote: »

Dalglish might be out of touch with the modern game but in fairness if Liverpool had a forward in the mould of RVP,Rooney or Aguero they would be right up there fighting it out for 3rd/4th rather than 6th/7th.

Then again they did spend 60 million pounds on two strikers in 2011 in Carroll and Suarez, and also signed Bellamy.

I'm sure if Liverpool had Messi they would be challenging for the Premier League title. But they don't however, it's not a valid excuse really.

amacachi

Neither is quite 6 months but still:

- |P|W|D|L|F|A|GD|Pts|Win%|PPG
Hodgson's last 20 league matches |20|7|4|9|24|27|-3|25|35|1.25
Kenny's last 20 league matches |20|7|6|7|23|19|+4|27|35|1.35

EDIT: Corrected GD.

noodler

Mr Alan wrote: »

Exactly. And this is what we need to address in the summer.

There's a lot right at Liverpool. Throwing the baby out with the bathwater, like we did with Rafa, would be a massive mistake.

Kneejerkish in the extreme. Take Noodler, a few posts ago he says it was right Rafa was sacked. Couple of posts later implies he'd want him back now. Very strange.

You are being a bit extreme. I didn't lead campaigns to get him sacked - I just thought a change might be beneficial.

We have gone from challenging for fourth regularly under Rafa to not under Roy and Kenny. Its not that strange to want some stability.

noodler

Mr Alan wrote: »

6 months relegation form under Kenny?

Really?

Rubbing it in after the other replies have pretty much confirmed it but....really!

ColeTrain

I think Dalglish has spent poorly. Go through his signings and it's staggering to read how much he's wasted. I see a few posters saying Henderson and Caroll are great prospects. For the guts of 55million they'd want to be better than prospects. Then you have the likes of Downing and Adam who were overpaid for but not nearly as bad as the other two.

When he was appointed I was surprised. I thought Liverpool needed someone sharper and as someone already said, it was exactly like Newcastle bringing back Keegan.

There's a few good players in the squad but how much money would it take to bring in what's needed to challenge for 4th spot? Too much is the answer and I wouldn't trust Dalglish with it another cent.

Yakult

Despite our league form being as bad as I've ever seen it, I still have some fate. If by Christmas we still havent improved then I will start asking questions about KD.

murpho999

You know in 1989/90 if the internet was around there would have been a thread entitled "Are Alex Ferguson and Man Utd Done?".

He had spent big money but had disastrous league form, calls for his head from supporters was huge but board stuck with him, FA Cup win relieved some pressure and bought him time and the rest is history.

Lesson is that some managers and projects deserve time.

AwayWithFaries

WTF is this shítty thread about?

Don't know why any Liverpool fan would want Kenny out at this stage, madness.

Sure we've had some disappointing results but all in all I think we have been playing really well except for one major problem. We can't score goals. If we had just one player who would bang in regular goals in the form of RvP we'd be flying.

Fúck it guys have a little faith, people who go abandoning ship at the first sign of trouble don't deserve to be called Liverpool fans.

ColeTrain

Yakult wrote: »

Despite our league form being as bad as I've ever seen it, I still have some fate. If by Christmas we still havent improved then I will start asking questions about KD.

Christmas is a long time away and you would only start asking questions then?!

Mr Alan

noodler wrote: »

Its not that strange to want some stability

So maybe stop wanting managers sacked every 12 months?

Allow a manager to build something. It takes more than a season. It did with Rafa. It did with Redknapp. It did with Mancini. It does with any manager.

Jesus Wept

AwayWithFaries wrote: »

WTF is this shítty thread about?

Don't know why any Liverpool fan would want Kenny out at this stage, madness.

Sure we've had some disappointing results but all in all I think we have been playing really well except for one major problem. We can't score goals. If we had just one player who would bang in regular goals in the form of RvP we'd be flying.

Fúck it guys have a little faith, people who go abandoning ship at the first sign of trouble don't deserve to be called Liverpool fans.

We scored 2 tonight. :pac:

KeithAFC

DDC1990 wrote: »

Some people think that Managers have some sort of Magic Touch and change matches on the fly.

Kenny picked a team, that went out and dominated the match totally.
Liverpool should have been 5-0 up tonight after 10 minutes.
We had upwards of 18 corners tonight.

2-0 up.

The defence made 3 errors and QPR capitalised. One by Skrtel, One by Henderson and one by Enrique.

How anyone can blame Kenny for that is beyond me. Its just a reflection of Liverpools **** luck this season.

Adam and Carroll were disasterous buys.
Coates, Henderson and Downing have potential to work out and show flashes of brilliant.
Enrique (for most of the season) and Suarez have been great signings.

Along with this Kenny has Blooded Spearing and Kelly into more then servicable first teamers, and has managed to get the best out of Skrtel.

We've had **** luck with injuries, with Lucas, Gerrard, Johnson and Agger all missing large chunks of the season.

We've qualified for Europe (fine its through the Cup), one more season for Kenny to work the magic, and get us back in the Top 4.

One key error in your post. Kenny Dalglish signed utter sh*t. That is why you aren't competing to get into a top 4 position. Don't use injuries as an excuse.

Adam, Carroll, Downing, Henderson and co just aren't that good. It really is that simple.

murpho999

cambo2008 wrote: »

Dalglish might be out of touch with the modern game but in fairness if Liverpool had a forward in the mould of RVP,Rooney or Aguero they would be right up there fighting it out for 3rd/4th rather than 6th/7th.

How is he out of touch with the "modern game"?

This is bollix.

Ball is still round, still 11 v 11 etc.

Have Ferguson and Wenger changed their management style over the last few years for "modern game"?

Mr Alan

murpho999 wrote: »

How is he out of touch with the "modern game

I think this criticism is hilarious too.

amacachi

murpho999 wrote: »

Have Ferguson and Wenger changed their management style over the last few years for "modern game".

Yes.

paulieeye

murpho999 wrote: »

You know in 1989/90 if the internet was around there would have been a thread entitled "Are Alex Ferguson and Man Utd Done?".

He had spent big money but had disastrous league form, calls for his head from supporters was huge but board stuck with him, FA Cup win relieved some pressure and bought him time and the rest is history.

Lesson is that some managers and projects deserve time.

Indeed, and he was in there 3 years at that stage...and finished 11th in 89 I think!