Are Kenny Dalglish and Liverpool Done?

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willmunny1990 wrote: »

you are like a little hyperactive puppy, biting my shoe, demanding attention.

Go away.

ShiverinEskimo

Mr Alan wrote: »

2 goals & 11 assists.

I'm happy to have him in the squad.

2 goals and 11 assists is a hit.

Torres must be delighted.

Reekwind

plasmaguy wrote: »

There really isn't a lot of world class strikers out there at the moment, and Carrol was ok enough at Newcastle, as was Suarez at PSV and for Uruguay.

His buys looked good on paper, and many others would have been tempted to buy the same players too

No, they wouldn't. Suarez aside, most of Dalglish's big buys were greeted incredulously. Did anyone really believe that Carroll was worth £35m? Downing £20m? Henderson £16m? It was pretty clear at the time, to those with eyes to see at least, that LFC were paying way over the odds for some pretty average players. Hence all the talk at the time of 'the English premium', etc. These are not good buys gone bad and nor did Liverpool have to beat off the opposition to secure the names

And talk of a lack of world class strikers is absolutely laughable when Newcastle (Newcastle!) signed two top strikers for a combined total of less than £10m this season. Papiss Cissé has scored the same number of league goals (3) in his five appearances since signing in January as Carroll has all season. And that's approx £20m in the difference. What about the quality midfield that Rodgers has put together on the cheap at Swansea? All this Ferguson-esque talk of 'no value in the market' is nonsense. The players are there if you know where to look

willmunny1990

Mr Alan wrote: »

2 goals & 11 assists.

I'm happy to have him in the squad.

but he's not just a squad member is he, dalglish has seen him as an important first team player and hes been an utter failure in that regard.

you can use stats to win any argument really, but the truth is Adam has been utter ****e for Pool.

plasmaguy

cambo2008 wrote: »

You don't pay 35m for an ok enough striker.
There's no justifying that transfer.
Suarez was a good buy if Carroll was a good striker,the Carroll transfer negates the good in the Suarez transfer.
It was Ajax by the way,not PSV.

He scored goals a plenty for Newcastle, I think he had something like 18 in the bag during the season he was transferred.

Was he worth 35 million? No...

But then again strikers who can actually score in the Premier League go for a premium these days, not that I am condoning it.

He's been a flop at pool, but then Torres has been a flop at Chelsea.

Hindsight when it comes to transfer buys is always 20-20.

Who would have thought Torres would be this bad for Chelsea for example.

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willmunny1990 wrote: »

but he's not just a squad member is he, dalglish has seen him as an important first team player and hes been an utter failure in that regard.

you can use stats to win any argument really, but the truth is Adam has been utter ****e for Pool.

Adam has played so much because Gerard has been injured so much.

Do try to keep up.

willmunny1990

Des wrote: »

you are like a little hyperactive puppy, biting my shoe, demanding attention.

Go away.

ha, the irony.

SlickRic

Mr Alan wrote: »

Ric, I guess we should just bring Rafa back (someone you wanted sacked).

Then when he doesn't have a 100% hit ratio in transfers, or doesn't make match winning substitutions week in week out, we can want him out again too.

Round & round we go.

why do you go to extremes?

have i asked him to make match winning decisions every week? No.

have i asked him to have a 100% hit ratio on transfers? No.

and i've already stated that I've no idea where I stand on Dalglish other than he isn't the solution for the long term. i think the pressure on him is possibly a little greater than it should be from some quarters, but that is because he largely spunked £100m on some potential, and not a lot else. that was never going to get us top 4.

i don't trust him with a large sum of money right now, i don't see what the problem with that is.

he rarely changes games with his tactics. there have been so many games we've looked lethargic, struggling to score, and nothing changes, or whatever he does doesn't work. last night he took off our best player when QPR had just gained momentum. very strange, and i said it to my mate at the time. and it backfired. i have a right to expect more.

he needs to get his finger out and change something that we're doing, and if he can't do that, well then, decisions will have to be made. we can't put everything this season in the League down to luck. at some point responsibility lies with him. if a top class manager becomes available, well then i would like to see Kenny elsewhere within the club.

the cup runs have papered over issues wonderfully. now don't get me wrong, they're extremely welcome, but don't cover issues.

and Kenny does have to prove himself in the modern game, whether you think that's an hilarious statement or not. he did it 20 years ago. football HAS changed. it's quicker, it's stronger, more athletic, the attention to detail is minute. yes it's still played on a pitch with a round ball, but so much is different, and if people can't see that, well i just don't know.

he hasn't proven yet that he can make that difference, and for one thing, his salary should warrant him being able to do it.

Al, a question for you, after last summer's transfer window, would you trust him with a large transfer kitty? because i really don't know if i could...

i recognise Kenny as the legend he is, and would love nothing more than for him to get us going again, but huge question marks are there, and will remain there until he proves he can answer them...

and also, RE: Rafa, during his last season, yes i got frustrated because even considering the fact that he didn't get the funds he was promised to improve things, the last season he handled the playing side of things terribly. lots were calling for change, and at one point i think i said i wouldn't be sorry to see him go. then we were in for Hodgson...and i wanted Rafa back pretty quick! as i said previously in this post, i wouldn't want Kenny gone at all unless there's a proven replacement, and Kenny can stay at the club as the positive influence he is, but in maybe another capacity.

also, Rafa, and you well know this, písses all over Dalglish in terms of management in the modern game. he's proven it. and our current club setup would suit Rafa down to the ground. so yes, i would have him back now.

willmunny1990

Des wrote: »

Adam has played so much because Gerard has been injured so much.

Do try to keep up.

Dalglish knew Gerrard was very unreliable fitness wise going into the season so was obviously happy to rely on Adam being an important first team player.

And Adam has started alot of games with Gerrard too.

Maybe you should heed some of your own advice and 'keep up'.

In fairness, Adam isn't to blame for Liverpool's poor league position.

He was fairly cheap and had a decent first half to the season. Played poorly recentl;y and was subsequently dropped. Brought back last night and was playing well until he was injured.

Plus, he cost sweet fúck all.

Willy, you cant really get on your high horse about anything seeing as Chelsea spunked 62 million on Torres and Meireles and both have been flops, Torres the biggest flop in football history. Remember, the whole Torres deal is about £80-90m.

Plus, you'll be in the Europa with us next year

But hey, you know all that as you're a "Chelsea" fan.

willmunny1990

willmunny1990 wrote: »

Dalglish knew Gerrard was very unreliable fitness wise going into the season so was obviously happy to rely on Adam being an important first team player.

And Adam has started alot of games with Gerrard too.

Maybe you should heed some of your own advice and 'keep up'.

and Lucas

Keep up Willy

Will I Amnt

plasmaguy wrote: »

He scored goals a plenty for Newcastle, I think he had something like 18 in the bag during the season he was transferred.

Was he worth 35 million? No...

But then again strikers who can actually score in the Premier League go for a premium these days, not that I am condoning it.

He's been a flop at pool, but then Torres has been a flop at Chelsea.

Hindsight when it comes to transfer buys is always 20-20.

Who would have thought Torres would be this bad for Chelsea for example.

It's been done to death,that Newcastle side played to Carrolls strengths,he is the absolute opposite kind of player to compliment Suarez.

ShiverinEskimo

rarnes1 wrote: »

In fairness, Adam isn't to blame for Liverpool's poor league position.

Nope. Dalglish is.

Sgt Pepper 64

rarnes1 wrote: »

In fairness, Adam isn't to blame for Liverpool's poor league position.

He was fairly cheap and had a decent first half to the season. Played poorly recentl;y and was subsequently dropped. Brought back last night and was playing well until he was injured.

Plus, he cost sweet fúck all.

Willy, you cant really get on your high horse about anything seeing as Chelsea spunked 62 million on Torres and Meireles and both have been flops, Torres the biggest flop in football history. Remember, the whole Torres deal is about £80-90m.

Plus, you'll be in the Europa with us next year

But hey, you know all that as you're a "Chelsea" fan.

Cant argue with any of that!

I think Chelsea and Liverpool need to sign an agreement NOT to do any more transfer business together!

Joe Cole, Meireles, Torres - even Stevie Clarke is losing some of his defending coach shine!

Nigel Spackman is one I do remember being a success at both clubs, more so at Pool

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cambo2008 wrote: »

It's been done to death,that Newcastle side played to Carrolls strengths,he is the absolute opposite kind of player to compliment Suarez.

Carroll is a pretty one dimensional kind of player.

Dalglish has spunked 35m on him, and not set his team up to play to that dimension, at all.

He is trying to force a 35m square peg into a round hole.

It's incredibly stubborn and naive. Naive to think that "long ball to a big man" tactics still work, twenty odd years after they went out of fashion.

ShiverinEskimo

ShiverinEskimo wrote: »

Nope. Dalglish is.

You a Pool fan? Or did you change your name ?

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rarnes1 wrote: »

You a Pool fan? Or did you change your name ?

you don't recognise Shiv?

He's been around since Kenny was manager last time nearly.

ShiverinEskimo

rarnes1 wrote: »

You a Pool fan? Or did you change your name ?

Huh?

willmunny1990

rarnes1 wrote: »

In fairness, Adam isn't to blame for Liverpool's poor league position.

He was fairly cheap and had a decent first half to the season. Played poorly recentl;y and was subsequently dropped. Brought back last night and was playing well until he was injured.

Plus, he cost sweet fúck all.

Willy, you cant really get on your high horse about anything seeing as Chelsea spunked 62 million on Torres and Meireles and both have been flops, Torres the biggest flop in football history. Remember, the whole Torres deal is about £80-90m.

Plus, you'll be in the Europa with us next year

But hey, you know all that as you're a "Chelsea" fan.

we've had our fair share of flops i have no problem admtting, mostly down to Roman but what exactly has that got to do with dalglish and Liverpool

rarnes1 wrote: »

and Lucas

Keep up Willy

i would say your 3 most important central midfielders going into the season were Lucas, Gerrard and Adam.

Adam was was always going to play alot because Gerrard and Lucas couldnt play all the time and often dalglish goes with a 5 man midfield.

Adam was clearly signed as an important first team player, to argue otherwise is absurd.

veXual

A lot of people are questioning the acquisition of British players namely Henderson, Carroll, Downing & Adam. I thought it was Nesv/Fenways policy to buy young local talent in and "exploit" their marketability. Exploit being a strong word but I can't think of another at the moment. It's worked for them in their previous ventures so they've invested in the same philosophy with Liverpool. Policy seems to be invest young, develop and then "profit". "Profit" being interpreted as success or selling players on for €€ profit.

Now this method dosen't necessarily guarantee immediate success, rather a roadmap for future success. I believe Carroll & Henderson still have time, Downing not so much so we'll agree that he has been a bit of a disaster. I also think it's worth noting Adam has played slightly further back this season than he did last. Correct me if I'm wrong there but his contribution hasn't been a total failure in my eyes.

Another issue I'd like to raise is how involved Daglish was in last seasons transfers. Again I'm not a Liverpool fan but I'm sure the club didn't go for Carroll because Kenny asked them to do so. A lot of people seem to be hung up on this and wanting to point the finger at Daglish.

Tactically I don't know how Liverpool have been this season. The consensus seems to be that they've been poor. This at least is the one issue that can be laid at Daglish's feet.

How do people think Liverpools tactical misgivings can be remedied? That's something I'd like to see discussed here. Maybe I should wander over to the superthread to have a look into it...

Sgt Pepper 64

willmunny1990 wrote: »

we've had our fair share of flops i have no problem admtting, mostly down to Roman but what exactly has that got to do with dalglish and Liverpool



i would say your 3 most important central midfielders going into the season were Lucas, Gerrard and Adam.

Adam was was always going to play alot because Gerrard and Lucas couldnt play all the time and often dalglish goes with a 5 man midfield.

Adam was clearly signed as an important first team player, to argue otherwise is absurd.

Adam and Carroll were bought on the back of the old perilous "One good season" philosophy and therein lies the problem!

Crann na Beatha

This post has been deleted.

geeky

To be honest, I don't think he's massively underachieved this year given what he has. If you had a look at both the first team and squads, You'd have them pegged as probably the sixth best team in the league, maybe a bit better than Arsenal or Spurs if it all gelled just right. And they would be sixth if it weren't for an out-of-their-skins performance from Newcastle in the first half of the season. There's still a good chance that they'll overtake Newcastle. Outside the league, he's won one cup and may yet win a second.

The two biggest concerns are alleged overspending and inconsistency, with the Suarez fiasco also as a black mark about his judgement.

On overspending, the two transfers you can really hold against him are £35m for Carroll and £20m for Downing.
On the first, it's worth taking into account the special circumstances of what was, effectively, a three-way deal: Liverpool wanted to realise a £15m profit on swapping Torres for Carroll, Ashley cleverly pushed for what he could get, and Roman paid up. You could well argue that Carroll was the wrong man to swap for - at this moment, it looks like he was. But despite how dreadful he's been, Carroll is young, quick and fast when he's at full fitness. I also think he's suffered because of the events since his transfer, more of which anon.

As for Downing, well, he's no £20m player in my eyes. Then again, he has a history of taking some time to settle in, and may deliver well into next season. He's capable of delivering great things in the right role. But he's not in that right role...

I think that the team's inconsistency stems from a lack of clarity about how Liverpool are meant to play. They've arguably suffered from the very strong form of both Suarez and Bellamy, which has let the team lean on individual talents in the final third rather than having a set plan for the final ball. I genuinely think that, when they bought carroll, they wanted to run with a 4-4-2, whipping balls in for the big man, while Suarez pounced on any scraps. But a combination of factors (Carroll's injury and poor form, Suarez proving better than anyone expected, Bellamy having a bigger role than expected) have derailed that plan. They've been playing with a mix of what's been working (letting the supporting striker do the work) and what they're supposed to do.
In my eyes, with all the disruption of the transfers, it's easy to see how this situation arose. But Kenny needs to get a handle on it quickly. If I were a Liverpool fan, I wouldn't be calling for his head over the QPR result. But I would be seeking evidence that there's a real plan for the attack by the end of the season.

Sgt Pepper 64

Sgt Pepper 64 wrote: »

Cant argue with any of that!

I think Chelsea and Liverpool need to sign an agreement NOT to do any more transfer business together!

Joe Cole, Meireles, Torres - even Stevie Clarke is losing some of his defending coach shine!

Nigel Spackman is one I do remember being a success at both clubs, more so at Pool

Liverpool's defence has been actually not too bad this season.

In fact, I think Liverpool might have the 2nd best defensive record in the league after City. I'll stand corercted on that though.

It's been the final third where Liverpool have fallen down, actually finishing chances.

I would even say, we'd be in the higher bracket for chances created. Chances converted, we're bottom I think

Last night was a prime example of Liverpool's problems this season. Lovely slick passing from defence through midfield, Suarez picks it up about 40 yards from goal beats a player and there is NO Liverpool player in the box. And that's the way it's been all season tbh.

A proven goalscorer is needed, and I mean proven over a number of years at a top level. I'm thinking someone like Huntalaar, that sort of player.

Crann na Beatha

This post has been deleted.

ShiverinEskimo

geeky wrote: »

You'd have them pegged as probably the sixth best team in the league, maybe a bit better than Arsenal or Spurs if it all gelled just right.

:eek:

ShiverinEskimo

ShiverinEskimo wrote: »

Huh?

Just asking a question, don't recognise you round these parts.

ShiverinEskimo

rarnes1 wrote: »

Just asking a question, don't recognise you round these parts.

"We don't take Kiiiiindly to your type round here"

"Now now skeeter - he ain't hurtin nobody"

Sgt Pepper 64

Aquila wrote: »

Lads give him time,takes time to make a mark,anyone who thought Kenny could waltz in and carry on where he left off in the eighties was deluded to say the least

I agree. A bit of summer shuffling, some players out, some in.
Its still a good season for Pool, 1 cup and euro football in the bag, maybe another cup to follow. Lets face it - in terms of trophies, that could be more than most of the current top 5 could achieve! Only one club from Manchester is going to win a pot this season, Chelsea\Spurs are the other possibles for a pot from the "big" six

bucketybuck

geeky wrote: »

They've arguably suffered from the very strong form of both Suarez .../... Suarez proving better than anyone expected

People keep saying this? Hasn't Suarez only gotten something like 6 goals this season?

I would say the only person to get more blind faith than Daglish would be Suarez.

Chucky the tree

bucketybuck wrote: »

People keep saying this? Hasn't Suarez only gotten something like 6 goals this season?

I would say the only person to get more blind faith than Daglish would be Suarez.

10 goals and 7 assists in 30 games this season. That's pretty good for someone who isn't a striker.

Oranage2

bucketybuck wrote: »

People keep saying this? Hasn't Suarez only gotten something like 6 goals this season?

I would say the only person to get more blind faith than Daglish would be Suarez.

Yep - 6 goals and 3 assists but dont let 'End Product' cloud your judgement on the world's greatest player to have ever played association football.

Reekwind

bucketybuck wrote: »

People keep saying this? Hasn't Suarez only gotten something like 6 goals this season?

I would say the only person to get more blind faith than Daglish would be Suarez.

Suarez gets credit because he's been playing well. The goals haven't flowed because there's no one alongside to capitalise on the chances that he's creating. Which means that opportunities go to waste or he tries to do it all himself. But he's clearly a good cut above the rest of the recruits and the only one who looks anything approaching top class

ShiverinEskimo

Chucky the tree wrote: »

10 goals and 7 assists in 30 games this season. That's pretty good for someone who isn't a striker.

WTF?

plasmaguy

You can't blame Daglish for the situation he inherited thanks to Benitez/Hodgson.

Lost Torres through no fault of his own (no CL football, etc), and left with a couple of other poor forwards, and forced to go out and buy some under pressure.

Suarez looked a good buy on paper, but I'm not sure he's a finisher, even Kuyt seems a better goal scorer.

As for Carroll, he's good for the odd flick on such as against Man Utd in the FA Cup.

ShiverinEskimo

plasmaguy wrote: »

You can't blame Daglish for the situation he inherited thanks to Benitez/Hodgson.

Lost Torres through no fault of his own (no CL football, etc), and left with a couple of other poor forwards, and forced to go out and buy some under pressure.

Suarez looked a good buy on paper, but I'm not sure he's a finisher, even Kuyt seems a better goal scorer.

As for Carroll, he's good for the odd flick on such as against Man Utd in the FA Cup.

100 million of his purchases have walked in the door. The stuff he inherited is actually the good stuff.

That_Guy

plasmaguy wrote: »

You can't blame Daglish for the situation he inherited thanks to Benitez/Hodgson.

Nonsense. He inherited a war chest given by the new owners and has spent big money on average players.

Lost Torres through no fault of his own (no CL football, etc), and left with a couple of other poor forwards, and forced to go out and buy some under pressure.

He knew what was happening with the Torres deal hence the reason we could push up the price for Carroll and Liverpool willingly accepted.

Suarez looked a good buy on paper, but I'm not sure he's a finisher, even Kuyt seems a better goal scorer.

To be fair to Suarez, he has talent and ability but has been desperately unlucky in terms of the amount of times he's hit the post this season.

As for Carroll, he's good for the odd flick on such as against Man Utd in the FA Cup.

35 million well spent. :rolleyes:

plasmaguy

ShiverinEskimo wrote: »

100 million of his purchases have walked in the door. The stuff he inherited is actually the good stuff.

Again, it was always going to be difficult/impossible to replace Torres.

Anyways, a cup and possibly another in the bag in his first season equals success.

Liverpool fans need to be more realistic. Did they seriously think they could win the league this season?

Man City must have spent 3-400 million the last few years.

The days of Liverpool dominance of the league are over, possibly forever, unless they get an oil sheik to buy them. Even a top 4 finish is probably beyond them for the next few years.

They are in a realistic place in the table.

Dempsey

Ultimately he is responsible for everything that has/hasnt gone right for Liverpool but at this stage I dont think sacking the manager will solve the problem. His biggest failure has been not managing the expectations of the board and the fans better and thats why he is under so much scrutiny now and I think the players will begin to feel that now and their performances could suffer like under Roy Hodgson.

Strange to think that, at this stage of the season, Steve Kean's job is safer than Dalglish's.

plasmaguy

Dempsey wrote: »

Ultimately he is responsible for everything that has/hasnt gone right for Liverpool but at this stage I dont think sacking the manager will solve the problem. His biggest failure has been not managing the expectations of the board and the fans better and thats why he is under so much scrutiny now and I think the players will begin to feel that now and their performances could suffer like under Roy Hodgson.

Strange to think that, at this stage of the season, Steve Kean's job is safer than Dalglish's.

Fair point.

But how long was it before Ferguson won a cup, any cup at Man Utd? Over 4 years.

It takes time to build a successful team.

steelcityblues

plasmaguy wrote: »

Again, it was always going to be difficult/impossible to replace Torres.

Anyways, a cup and possibly another in the bag in his first season equals success.

Liverpool fans need to be more realistic. Did they seriously think they could win the league this season?

Man City must have spent 3-400 million the last few years.

The days of Liverpool dominance of the league are over, possibly forever, unless they get an oil sheik to buy them. Even a top 4 finish is probably beyond them for the next few years.

They are in a realistic place in the table.

John Henry said the goal was to be in the top 4, so you can't get away from that.

Orando Broom

plasmaguy wrote: »

Fair point.

But how long was it before Ferguson won a cup, any cup at Man Utd? Over 4 years.

It takes time to build a successful team.

Ferguson's first three signigns were viv Anderson Brian McClair and Steve Bruce. None were transfer records.

Dalglish spent £35m a fantastic sum even in this era on a player whose style of play would never, ever repay his transfer fee. Ever. Big men up front should never cost £35m. Even Llorente who is 50 times the player Andy Carroll could ever dream to be is not a £35m player.

Xavi6

That_Guy

plasmaguy wrote: »

Again, it was always going to be difficult/impossible to replace Torres.

How? He wasn't firing on all cylinders at Liverpool and it was clear that he was unhappy.

Anyways, a cup and possibly another in the bag in his first season equals success.

Possibly but the FA Cup isn't a foregone conclusion. A Carling Cup is decent yes but only a Carling Cup and a non top 4 finish wouldn't be classed as a success given the money they've spent.

Liverpool fans need to be more realistic. Did they seriously think they could win the league this season?

Realistically, Liverpool's aim was top 4. Always was but it doesn't look likely at all anymore.

Man City must have spent 3-400 million the last few years.

Yep but Liverpool have spent 100 million to try and bridge the gap... Didn't work. Won't work and the manager has to be culpable.

The days of Liverpool dominance of the league are over

Have been for a while.

Even a top 4 finish is probably beyond them for the next few years.

Unless you switch manager. Kenny's not getting the best out of what he has and it's evident. A manger like say, Jurgen Klopp would be ideal at Liverpool in my opinion. He's built a young and excellent side with Dortmund and I think he could get the best out of Liverpool players.

They are in a realistic place in the table.

No they are not. Realistically they should be on the fringes of the top 4 at the moment and not 5 points behind us.

plasmaguy

steelcityblues wrote: »

John Henry said the goal was to be in the top 4, so you can't get away from that.

And John Henry knows what about soccer? That's right, zero, like all these American, Russian and Qatari owners.

Football is a tough business, and to be honest if he wanted to buy success or a top 4 finish, you'd nearly have to replace all the Liverpool players bar perhaps Reyna and Gerard.

plasmaguy

That_Guy wrote: »

How? He wasn't firing on all cylinders at Liverpool and it was clear that he was unhappy.



Possibly but the FA Cup isn't a foregone conclusion. A Carling Cup is decent yes but only a Carling Cup and a non top 4 finish wouldn't be classed as a success given the money they've spent.



Realistically, Liverpool's aim was top 4. Always was but it doesn't look likely at all anymore.



Yep but Liverpool have spent 100 million to try and bridge the gap... Didn't work. Won't work and the manager has to be culpable.



Have been for a while.



Unless you switch manager. Kenny's not getting the best out of what he has and it's evident. A manger like say, Jurgen Klopp would be ideal at Liverpool in my opinion. He's built a young and excellent side with Dortmund and I think he could get the best out of Liverpool players.



No they are not. Realistically they should be on the fringes of the top 4 at the moment and not 5 points behind us.

Yeh and if Klopp doesn't get 4th or 5th, what then, sack him too? Where does it end?

Seriously need to give Daglish more time, at least until the end of next season.

Sacking a manager in his first full season and after delivering one cup and potentially another, just because he is 1 or maybe 2 places down the table from where his team should be, is frankly daft, even you must admit that.

plasmaguy

plasmaguy wrote: »

Dempsey wrote: »

Ultimately he is responsible for everything that has/hasnt gone right for Liverpool but at this stage I dont think sacking the manager will solve the problem. His biggest failure has been not managing the expectations of the board and the fans better and thats why he is under so much scrutiny now and I think the players will begin to feel that now and their performances could suffer like under Roy Hodgson.

Strange to think that, at this stage of the season, Steve Kean's job is safer than Dalglish's.

Fair point.

But how long was it before Ferguson won a cup, any cup at Man Utd? Over 4 years.

It takes time to build a successful team.

There's not many here that were around back then or were too young I'd imagine

Chucky the tree

ShiverinEskimo wrote: »

WTF?

Which part is confusing you?

Dempsey

plasmaguy wrote: »

Fair point.

But how long was it before Ferguson won a cup, any cup at Man Utd? Over 4 years.

It takes time to build a successful team.

Well thats my point about managing expectations. Seems that fans are pissed more so about him not reaching the goals that he said he'd achieve this season. Given the status he has with Liverpool, he's probably the only man that could have said to fans and the board, "Right, this is going to be a 3-4 year thing, no quick fixes to the current problem" and got them to accept that.

He had a rebuilding job to do, he shouldnt have aimed so high so quickly whilst changing the core of the team in such a short space of time.

That_Guy

plasmaguy wrote: »

And John Henry knows what about soccer? That's right, zero, like all these American, Russian and Qatari owners.

What the fúck? I'm sure he does know a lot about soccer. If he doesn't, I'm sure he knows about investment and potential returns. I don't think he'd throw 100 million into the transfer kitty if he didn't think the propsect of Champions League football was too far away.

Football is a tough business, and to be honest if he wanted to buy success or a top 4 finish, you'd nearly have to replace all the Liverpool players bar perhaps Reyna and Gerard.

Bollocks. The majority of your players have a ton of Champions League experience.