Are Kenny Dalglish and Liverpool Done?

J. Marston

willmunny1990 wrote: »

How about a little bet over soccer access?

i say Dalglish will never achieve a fourth place (or higher) finish under his current spell as manager.

If he leaves and didn't get pool into the top 4, you never post in the soccer forum again.

If pool qualify for the champions league under dalglish, same applies to me. I'll never post here again.


Who's on for it? Time to put this blind faith to the test.

A loser leaves town match. I'm expecting Vince McMahon to post in this thread any minute.

Paul Tergat

willmunny1990 wrote: »

How about a little bet over soccer access?

i say Dalglish will never achieve a fourth place (or higher) finish under his current spell as manager.

If he leaves and didn't get pool into the top 4, you never post in the soccer forum again.

If pool qualify for the champions league under dalglish, same applies to me. I'll never post here again.


Who's on for it? Time to put this blind faith to the test.

What a ****ing retarded offer. Its stacked so heavily in your favour its unreal. Considering 4th is pretty much impossible this season and a very good chance he may move away in the summer you are just acting the big man here imo

willmunny1990

Paul Tergat wrote: »

What a ****ing retarded offer. Its stacked so heavily in your favour its unreal. Considering 4th is pretty much impossible and a very good chance he may move away in the summer you are just acting the big man here imo

Read the thread. some Pool fans are adamant that he wont be going anywhere in the Summer and i agree, i think he'll get next season at the very least.

acting the big man? come down off your high horse. the offer is there for anyone who has 100% faith in dalglish and firmly believes hes the man to get them back into the CL. im not holding a gun to anyones head.

i'll even consider the bet to be void if dalglish leaves in the Summer.

Paul Tergat

willmunny1990 wrote: »

Read the thread. some Pool fans are adamant that he wont be going anywhere in the Summer and i agree, i think he'll get next season at the very least.

acting the big man? come down off your high horse. the offer is there for anyone who has 100% faith in dalglish and firmly believes hes the man to get them back into the CL. im not holding a gun to anyones head.

i have been reading the thread and whats clear is you have seen a spot to make yourself out to be a big man.

the consensus, from at least the sensible posters, is that he hasnt spent well in quite a lot of instances but he has them playing better football and has them going in a direction that a lot are happy with. that does not mean 4th place anytime soon.

imo you are trying to goad people into taking a bet thats ridic heavily weighted in your favour.

doc_17

People love takin about liverpool!

redzerdrog

Oranage2 wrote: »

3/1 max bet 100€ - I'll give your money to charity too when I win - YOu can pick the Charity.

3/1 on something you are guaranteeing wont happen get a grip:rolleyes:

i can guarantee man utd wont get relagated next year
i can guarantee norwich wont win the league next year
i can guarantee stoke wont finish in the top 4 next year

I can make these guarantees without turning around and offering measly odds of 3/1

you cannot guarantee liverpool wont be in the top 4 next year so you should put up or shut up

Nalz

redzerdrog wrote: »

you cannot guarantee liverpool wont be in the top 4 next year so you should put up or shut up

willmunny1990

Paul Tergat wrote: »

i have been reading the thread and whats clear is you have seen a spot to make yourself out to be a big man.

how the hell am i trying to be 'the big man'? What a crock of ****e. all ive done is offered my opinions on dalglish and have offered a reasonable bet. its not that long ago lots of pool fans were confident that dalglish could take them to the title in time so a bet that he wont get them back into the champions league is hardly a stretch ffs.

the consensus, from at least the sensible posters, is that he hasnt spent well in quite a lot of instances but he has them playing better football and has them going in a direction that a lot are happy with. that does not mean 4th place anytime soon.

It doesn't have to be anytime soon. if Dalglish remains pool manager in 5 years time and gets them back into the champions league then, they win the bet.

imo you are trying to goad people into taking a bet thats ridic heavily weighted in your favour.

Damn right its heavily weighted in my favour. but thats your view and mine.

Lots of Pool fans firmly believe that Dalglish will get them back into the champions league. that's their view and i'm asking them if they're up for a bet on it.

Where's the problem?

willmunny1990

willmunny1990 wrote: »

How about a little bet over soccer access?

i say Dalglish will never achieve a fourth place (or higher) finish under his current spell as manager.

If he leaves and didn't get pool into the top 4, you never post in the soccer forum again.

If pool qualify for the champions league under dalglish, same applies to me. I'll never post here again.


Who's on for it? Time to put this blind faith to the test.

If there's a more than one goal in the premiership this weekend, you lose your access.

Fair bet.

DB21

J. Marston wrote: »

A loser leaves town match. I'm expecting Vince McMahon to post in this thread any minute.

ShamoBuc

willmunny1990 wrote: »

Where's the problem?

Look in a mirror!

Sir Gallagher

willmunny1990 wrote: »

how the hell am i trying to be 'the big man'? What a crock of ****e. all ive done is offered my opinions on dalglish and have offered a reasonable bet. its not that long ago lots of pool fans were confident that dalglish could take them to the title in time so a bet that he wont get them back into the champions league is hardly a stretch ffs.



It doesn't have to be anytime soon. if Dalglish remains pool manager in 5 years time and gets them back into the champions league then, they win the bet.




Damn right its heavily weighted in my favour. but thats your view and mine.

Lots of Pool fans firmly believe that Dalglish will get them back into the champions league. that's their view and i'm asking them if they're up for a bet on it.

Where's the problem?

If you're still posting on this forum at that stage half the posters will have fcked off anyway.

ShamoBuc

ShamoBuc wrote: »

Look in a mirror!

0991ynnumlliw

willmunny1990

rarnes1 wrote: »

If there's a more than one goal in the premiership this weekend, you lose your access.

Fair bet.

Not confident enough to take it the rarnes then? didn't think so. I don't blame you tbh.

willmunny1990

willmunny1990 wrote: »

Not confident enough to take it the rarnes then? didn't think so. I don't blame you tbh.

I'm worried for you if you think that was a fair bet tbh.

Sasquatch76

Using the ignore button has the EXACT SAME EFFECT as winning that bet.

PhlegmyMoses

Comparing anybody to Fergie is madness. I remember some Liverpool fans making the point that Fergie took 7 years to win a title when Rafa was in charge, as if this somehow meant that Rafa was also capable of this given enough time. This is ridiculous as it is not the fact that Fergie managed to win the league after a few barren years that makes him a great manager, it's the ensuing 2 decades where he swept all before him.

He is an anomaly. Nobody else has done what he has done. You cannot point to his few turbulent years at the start, or a few dodgy signings, as some kind of proof that other managers are capable of doing what he has done. He is in a league of his own.

ShamoBuc

rarnes1 wrote: »

I'm worried for you if you think that was a fair bet tbh.

On Your Own On Your Own On Your Own:D

Oranage2

redzerdrog wrote: »

3/1 on something you are guaranteeing wont happen get a grip:rolleyes:

i can guarantee man utd wont get relagated next year
i can guarantee norwich wont win the league next year
i can guarantee stoke wont finish in the top 4 next year

I can make these guarantees without turning around and offering measly odds of 3/1

you cannot guarantee liverpool wont be in the top 4 next year so you should put up or shut up

I offered you 3/1 so you put your money where your mouth is or shut up.

Anyway lad I dont know what you think gambling is but it's certainly not like your 10 cent get rich quick accumulator scheme.

You wanted a chump bet so I gave you chump odds. There's no money to be made with these sort of bets so its just bragging rights so either take or dont, I dont care but you're not going to get better than 3/1 off me, dont like it, dont do it simple.

shamrock55

the answer to the original question is "far from it";)

opr

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

Comparing anybody to Fergie is madness. I remember some Liverpool fans making the point that Fergie took 7 years to win a title when Rafa was in charge, as if this somehow meant that Rafa was also capable of this given enough time. This is ridiculous as it is not the fact that Fergie managed to win the league after a few barren years that makes him a great manager, it's the ensuing 2 decades where he swept all before him.

He is an anomaly. Nobody else has done what he has done. You cannot point to his few turbulent years at the start, or a few dodgy signings, as some kind of proof that other managers are capable of doing what he has done. He is in a league of his own.

I am not really sure what point you are trying to make ?

No one is saying that Ferguson is proof that others given time will go on to dominate for decades. What we're saying is even the best manager who did go on to dominate for decades needed time to build a squad. If Ferguson was managing in today's Sky gimme it all now era he probably would never have lasted at the club in those early years.

Forgetting about him completely surely any football fan can see the sacking and rehiring of managers in the Chelsea vein isn't the way to go about bringing success to a club long term. Just over one year isn't enough time to judge how a manager will do in the future.

Opr

bucketybuck

Chucky the tree wrote: »

That was me. He's not a striker, he is a forward. There is a difference.

:rolleyes:

Marque forward then, if you wish. Call him what you like, he was still the guy who started on his own up front against QPR. Anybody trying to imply he is like a Van der Vaart* sitting deep to create chances is just talking revisionist nonsense. He was bought to score goals. He has six league goals this season. Fingers should be pointed.

*I have to assume thats what people are trying to spin his position as. If they think he plays a Bergkamp or Sheringham type role then his goalscoring record still sucks balls.

eagle eye

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

Comparing anybody to Fergie is madness. I remember some Liverpool fans making the point that Fergie took 7 years to win a title when Rafa was in charge, as if this somehow meant that Rafa was also capable of this given enough time. This is ridiculous as it is not the fact that Fergie managed to win the league after a few barren years that makes him a great manager, it's the ensuing 2 decades where he swept all before him.

He is an anomaly. Nobody else has done what he has done. You cannot point to his few turbulent years at the start, or a few dodgy signings, as some kind of proof that other managers are capable of doing what he has done. He is in a league of his own.

So I guess what you are saying here is that if it took Alex Ferguson 7 years then all others should get longer?

LuckyLloyd

rarnes1 wrote: »

It's probably not gone unnoticed that some of the same "fans" calling for Kenny's head are the same folk that were calling for Rafa's head when we were in the CL every year, and not just there making up the numbers, but getting to quarters, semis and finals.

Fickle plastic fans.

I for one am thankful for breaking our silverware duck, and can't wait for our second trip to Wembley for a (hopefully) all Merseyside cup semi final.

Last night changed nothing. Season has been okay, could end up as good if we win the second cup, but hasn't been a Hodgsonesque disaster.

Xavi6

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

but hasn't been a Hodgsonesque disaster.

Quick question, as I can't be arsed looking myself, were Liverpool out of all cup competitions when Hodgson was sacked?

Nalz

Xavi6 wrote: »

Quick question, as I can't be arsed looking myself, were Liverpool out of all cup competitions when Hodgson was sacked?

well Dalglish lost his first game in a FA cup tie vs United so they were still in that. Not sure about the league cup

GLaDOS

Had Liverpool even started the FA cup by the time Hodgson was sacked?

Nalz

Xavi6 wrote: »

Quick question, as I can't be arsed looking myself, were Liverpool out of all cup competitions when Hodgson was sacked?

knocked out on pens to Northampton town in third round

ScienceNerd wrote: »

Had Liverpool even started the FA cup by the time Hodgson was sacked?

nope

Will I Amnt

Didn't Northampton knock them out of the league cup?

Chucky the tree

bucketybuck wrote: »

:rolleyes:

Marque forward then, if you wish. Call him what you like, he was still the guy who started on his own up front against QPR. Anybody trying to imply he is like a Van der Vaart* sitting deep to create chances is just talking revisionist nonsense. He was bought to score goals. He has six league goals this season. Fingers should be pointed.

*I have to assume thats what people are trying to spin his position as. If they think he plays a Bergkamp or Sheringham type role then his goalscoring record still sucks balls.

What relevance does it have if he did start up front? It's not his problem the manager doesn't play him in the best position or doesn't have a striker good enough in the team. Just because a player is picked in a position does not mean he is best suited to play that position, I thought even the most clueless would know that. How do you know he bought to score goals? Have a chat with Kenny about it? :rolleyes:


No wonder you put your last point in bold. It's embarrassing how incorrect it is. From 2000 until 2006 he never once broke double figures in the league for goals despite playing 24 games or more every year.

Giruilla

Can't think of a manager who epitomises liverpools 'honourable' culture as much as him... so no

Nalz

Chucky the tree wrote: »

How do you know he bought to score goals? Have a chat with Kenny about it? :rolleyes:

Judging by how much money was spent on him, where he is played, his record in Holland and how little strikers Liverpool had and have even now it would be an educated guess that Suarez was expected to hit the 15-20 goals mark.

Xavi6

ScienceNerd wrote: »

Had Liverpool even started the FA cup by the time Hodgson was sacked?

Trilla wrote: »

nope

So hypothetically he *could* have had a cup run there.

They also topped their Europa League group and made the knockout stages so there's a second cup competition.

So, again hypothetically, when Hodgson was sacked he was in three competitions but wasn't allowed see them out unlike Dalglish who is being afforded that luxury.

Chucky the tree

Trilla wrote: »

Judging by how much money was spent on him, where he is played, his record in Holland and how little strikers Liverpool had and have even now it would be an educated guess that Suarez was expected to hit the 15-20 goals mark.

Considering he was bought to play with Torres I don't really agree. There are very few second strikers/forwards who'll ever hit 15-20 goals in the league. Bergkamp only did it once, Berbatov has only done it twice in England, and even Rooney has only managed it 3 times in 8 years for United.

Nalz

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Considering he was bought to play with Torres I don't really agree.

and how do you know this? had a chat with Kenny did you?

opr

Xavi6 wrote: »

So hypothetically he *could* have had a cup run there.

They also topped their Europa League group and made the knockout stages so there's a second cup competition.

So, again hypothetically, when Hodgson was sacked he was in three competitions but wasn't allowed see them out unlike Dalglish who is being afforded that luxury.

Come on Xavi no one had an agenda against Hodgson. We all hated the kind of football we played under him but more than anything he didn't get the club. His media interviews constantly were terrible in which he came across as a babbling fool.

I know people from the outside won't have liked how Kenny has handled the media but as was pointed out during the Hodgson era no one gives a **** as long as the person is defending Liverpool. Des summed it up perfectly below.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=77718269

Besides which if people bothered to understand why Kenny treats the cretins in the media with such contempt it might paint it in a different light.

Even if Liverpool fans are showing more rope than they should to Kenny the guy not just for what he has done on the pitch as a player and manager of this club in the past but what he has done off it deserves that and much much more.

People can **** off with this Hodgson got a raw deal crap!

Opr

LuckyLloyd

Also eh - knocked out of a cup against Northampton...AT HOME!

Liam O

Xavi6 wrote: »

So hypothetically he *could* have had a cup run there.

They also topped their Europa League group and made the knockout stages so there's a second cup competition.

So, again hypothetically, when Hodgson was sacked he was in three competitions but wasn't allowed see them out unlike Dalglish who is being afforded that luxury.

Ultimately the main difference between Liverpool in the first half of the season and the second half was Luis Suarez. The improvement in form was pretty much directly down to his play imo which had an uplifting effect on all those around him. Hodgson is blamed for signing Poulsen and Konchesky but he was given little money and went for players who were available cheap.

Chucky the tree

Liam O wrote: »

Ultimately the main difference between Liverpool in the first half of the season and the second half was Luis Suarez. The improvement in form was pretty much directly down to his play imo which had an uplifting effect on all those around him. Hodgson is blamed for signing Poulsen and Konchesky but he was given little money and went for players who were available cheap.

Yea, that explains the 7 points from 9 games after Hodgson was sacked and before Suarez was signed. Clearly down to the uplifting effect Suarez had while he was in holland.

Xavi6

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Also eh - knocked out of a cup against Northampton...AT HOME!

Cup shocks happen to all clubs.

Arsenal under George Graham were dumped out of the FA Cup by Wrexham in 1992. They didn't sack him and look what happened the next year

Xavi6

opr wrote: »

Come on Xavi no one had an agenda against Hodgson. We all hated the kind of football we played under him but more than anything he didn't get the club. His media interviews constantly were terrible in which he came across as a babbling fool.

Can you please explain this to me, it's something I've never understood. What did he not or need to 'get' to succeed? What's so different at Liverpool compared to the other clubs he has succeeded at? Please don't say history.

willmunny1990

Xavi6 wrote: »

Can you please explain this to me, it's something I've never understood. What did he not or need to 'get' to succeed? What's so different at Liverpool compared to the other clubs he has succeeded at? Please don't say history.

Exactly.

they are just another football club. the idea that they are something different and someone has to 'get' the club to manage them is just a romantic delusion.

Jayob10

Xavi6 wrote: »

Can you please explain this to me, it's something I've never understood. What did he not or need to 'get' to succeed? What's so different at Liverpool compared to the other clubs he has succeeded at? Please don't say history.

I have to say as a diehard Liverpool fan I find it hard to disagree with you hear in terms of what it means to "get" the club.

I do disagree with you on Hodgson though, should not be let near a club like Liverpool. It was just a bad fit, he's not a bad boss, but the football was well and trully gutter football.

Strongbow10

LFC is like a political party, you have to toe the party line. Shankly was the man who laid the foundations and all late comers have to pay homage.

The boss has to make the fans feel like they are part of the most exclusive party in the world. Roy didn't have Kennys shapes, the snarling at media in response to the medias non existent bias against the club.

Roy was spotted laughing with Fergie when we lost to United, which was unforgiveable, but Kenny has the shapes and political nous to know what to say and do in defeat, thats what the fans want.

Mediocrity will be celebrated so long as this mediocrity wins the heart of the support through sheer effort and love for the club. And maybe one great performance in 7.

Romanticism is a big part of the club, its like Kevin Keegan syndrome only not as bad. Dalglish isn't a bad manager and he will have something Liverpool fans find important, respect amongst his peers.

But make no mistake, "The Liverpool Way" needs to be taken apart and rebuilt as its not applicable today.

Chucky the tree

It's quite easy to not "get" a club. I'd never expect a City manager to be be grinning stupidly at Fergie after getting soundly beaten by them. I'd never expect a City manager to say "We'll cross that bridge when we come to it" rumours of one of Cities biggest rivals wanted to buy their best player. I wouldn't expect a City boss to describe beating Bolton away as a "famous victory". Some of the other stuff he came out while not having anything to do with getting a club was comically bad.

Revolution9

Well he certainly didn't "get" the expectations of the fans when he described away wins at Bolton and Trabzonspor as "famous victories" for the club.

And sorry to bring up the dreaded topic of history, but surely he was aware that Liverpool have had slightly more notable wins in the past than the two aformentioned.

So yeah, I think it's accurate to say Roy didn't really understand Liverpool football club at all.

Father Damo

The appointment of Dalglish following the sacking of a world class manager was the beginning of the end of Liverpool being any sort of decent club of good character.

He has won one 3rd rate trophy.

Liverpool under him are unwatachable.

His results have, generally, been woeful.

The Suarez episode, and in particular his handling of it, was one of the most embarassing periods of any clubs history. Even the FAI of yesteryear would have handled it better. The handling of the handshake incident was the final nail in the coffin. As I say these days, Liverpool, and a great deal of their fans, are no different from Man Utd these days (bar succcess of course). Rafa might have been the king of underachievement but jesus at least they played enjoyable to watch football generally.

The sooner this clown and Suarez are both shown the door the faster the club can begin to rebuild itself as one deserving of some degree of respect.

Strongbow10

Revolution9 wrote: »

Well he certainly didn't "get" the expectations of the fans when he described away wins at Bolton and Trabzonspor as "famous victories" for the club.

And sorry to bring up the dreaded topic of history, but surely he was aware that Liverpool have had slightly more notable wins in the past than the two aformentioned.

So yeah, I think it's accurate to say Roy didn't really understand Liverpool football club at all.

it really is all lip service though. Kenny is better at paying the fans lip service. His better brand of football will yield a similar points haul. With more money spent may i hasten to add. He has more love for the club but he has the politics of how to talk to the fans down to a tee.

I hated Hodgson being at the club, but if things keep going as they are a win at Bolton will become a famous win for us. Something we couldn't manage this season.

LFC 2012 have no right to feel our famous reputation allows us to take no joy out of beating such sides.

Revolution9

Father Damo wrote: »

The appointment of Dalglish following the sacking of a world class manager

So Dalglish, with four league titles and a few domestic cup wins, is a poor manager and Rafa with two La Ligas and a European Cup is an underachiever and some chap who won the odd Scandinavian title and nothing else over 35 years of management is world class?

Baffling.

PhlegmyMoses

opr wrote: »

I am not really sure what point you are trying to make ?

No one is saying that Ferguson is proof that others given time will go on to dominate for decades. What we're saying is even the best manager who did go on to dominate for decades needed time to build a squad. If Ferguson was managing in today's Sky gimme it all now era he probably would never have lasted at the club in those early years.

Forgetting about him completely surely any football fan can see the sacking and rehiring of managers in the Chelsea vein isn't the way to go about bringing success to a club long term. Just over one year isn't enough time to judge how a manager will do in the future.

Opr

I understand what point you are trying to make but there is no comparison to be made between Kenny Dalglish, Rafa, or any other manager for that matter, and Alex Ferguson. The crux of the idea is that it took 7 years for a manager like Fergie to win the league and look how he did. Clinging to the idea that because it took Ferguson a few years to make the breakthrough then other managers may do so is ridiculous. The proceeding 20 years proved that he was a great manager even when he was doing poorly and that Manchester United were right to stick with their man. This categorically is not the case for 99.99% of managers as they will never achieve anywhere near the success he has had if you left them in charge for 50 years.

Whilst I don't agree that you should adopt a Chelsea approach, the "Ferguson took 7 years" argument, which has been made time and time again, muddies the water when you are trying to evaluate a manager. Judge managers on their own merits, not on some barometer set by the greatest manager in English football. Basically, there's a middle ground between sticking by your man, Fergie-style, and sacking a manager every year in an Abramovichian fit of pique.