Going back to a cash economy?

smash

After yesterday's announcement from AIB, is this the way things will go? The banks are getting away with murder these days and apart from moving bank, keeping all transactions to cash, or keep a minimum balance of €2500 in your account there's no other way to avoid their fees, which are outrageous really.

The reason I wouldn't move bank is because bank of Ireland are way behind in my opinion with their transfer times and online banking systems, and others are even further behind.

AIB’S DECISION to alter how it calculates fees on its current accounts and make it more difficult for hundreds of thousands of customers to qualify for free banking has been condemned by the National Consumer Agency (NCA) as “overly restrictive and disappointing”.

From May 28th, current account customers will have to keep the balance of their accounts above €2,500 or face fees that could top €100 a year. At present they need only make one purchase on an AIB debit card and carry out one transaction through AIB phone and internet banking during the fee quarter to qualify.

Those who fail to meet the criteria will be charged €4.50 per quarter as a maintenance fee. Charges will also apply to other transactions. The use of a laser card will see consumers hit with a 20 cent charge, while withdrawing cash at a branch will cost 30 cent each time.

AIB claimed that 40 per cent of its customers would still qualify for free banking, but this includes student and graduate accounts, and customers over 60 on AIB Advantage accounts, who will continue to get free banking under the existing terms of their accounts.

“While this was a difficult decision to make, nonetheless it is a necessary one if we are to continue to create the conditions in which we can become a strong and viable entity again,” AIB’s director of personal and business banking, Bernard Byrne, said.

“The fact that this new condition is based on your ability to maintain a €2,500 balance in your current account is very restrictive and disappointing at a time when many consumers are struggling to manage their money,” the NCA’s chief executive Ann Fitzgerald said. “Clearly, many people do not have €2,500 that they can leave permanently sitting in their current account.”

She pointed out that, with no interest paid on credit balances in most current accounts, consumers who chose to leave €2,500 on deposit with AIB would lose out on €100 a year in interest they could earn if this money was on deposit in an interest-paying account.

“Many consumers will be unable to meet this condition unless they move money from a savings account into their current account, thereby losing out on the interest they would earn,” Ms Fitzgerald said. “But the decision really depends on how you use your account. Consumers who are heavy users of their current account may be better off maintaining the €2,500 credit balance, thereby saving more money by avoiding charges than they would earn on deposit.

“AIB’s statement also refers to the approximately 40 per cent of customers who will still qualify for free banking under the new criteria. As this 40 per cent includes students, graduates and over-60s, who all currently have free banking, we would ask AIB to clarify what proportion of their personal current account customers will lose free banking as a result of this decision.”

The NCA called on AIB customers who met the previous criteria for free banking to use the next two months to assess the charges they would be subject to, and to consider switching accounts to maintain free banking services.

Source: http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2012/0322/1224313700754.html

RachaelVO

Good aul Irish bankers, it's no coincidence that bankers rhymes with wankers

Potential-Monke

Having been with AIB & BOI, i can safely say PTSB have been the best so far. Let the bank burn, everyone should switch from them. Bully tactics is what that is.

Biggins

The general reaction to this now, is a lot of anger and a good deal say at least, they will switch banks.
I hope they do.
Once again, a bank that this state now owes, is screwing more money out of the public by another method!

smash

Biggins wrote: »

Once again, a bank that this state now owes, is screwing more money out of the public by another method!

State owned isn't worth the paper it's written on because lets face it, it's still the same people running it and the state don't have a fúcking clue what they're actually doing in there.

Chuck Stone

Cue rise in use of cash and thus the black economy and resulting fall in tax receipts for the state.

Do the people who run this country have any fucking clue what they're doing?

pragmatic1

Bye Bye AIB time to close my account.

eth0

credit union

Run_to_da_hills

This is just a taste of things to come and is what we can expect with the forthcoming roll out of NFC phones. We can expect a transaction charge on every single purchase made.

eth0

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

This is just a taste of things to come and is what we can expect with the forthcoming roll out of NFC phones. We can expect a transaction charge on every single purchase made.

but the d4 crowd won't mind, because its 'cool' and 'modern' and their Dawd will be paying the transaction charge anyway and it will spread from there

Dubit10

As long as we let them get away with it they will continue to operate in the way they have over the last years. Nothing has changed inside the banking system if anything it's getting worse.

eth0

Chuck Stone wrote: »

Cue rise in use of cash and thus the black economy and resulting fall in tax receipts for the state.

Do the people who run this country have any fucking clue what they're doing?

Que rise in fixed, unavoidable taxes like broadcast charge, household charge, existence tax to extract money from people whether or not they're earning anything

Dubit10

Chuck Stone wrote: »

Cue rise in use of cash and thus the black economy and resulting fall in tax receipts for the state.

Do the people who run this country have any fucking clue what they're doing?

They do but why would they care. It's not like a real job in the real world where you fcuk up and get get fired, inside the golden circle of the public and civil service you continue to get paid and can still collect a gold plated pension no matter how much you screw up.

JazzyJ

smash wrote: »

... or keep a minimum balance of €2500 in your account there's no other way to avoid their fees, which are outrageous really.

The reason I wouldn't move bank is because bank of Ireland are way behind in my opinion with their transfer times and online banking systems, and others are even further behind.]

Sure Bank of Ireland already have a minimum balance requirement of €3000. AIB are just keeping up with the Joneses.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056187979

Banks are cnuts.

irelandrover

Biggins wrote: »

The general reaction to this now, is a lot of anger and a good deal say at least, they will switch banks.
I hope they do.
Once again, a bank that this state now owes, is screwing more money out of the public by another method!

I don't understand. How is it screwing money out of people to make them pay for services they use?

Gumbo

Dubit10 wrote: »

They do but why would they care. It's not like a real job in the real world where you fcuk up and get get fired, inside the golden circle of the public and civil service you continue to get paid and can still collect a gold plated pension no matter how much you screw up.

think your in the wrong thread :rolleyes:

Ghandee

irelandrover wrote: »

I don't understand. How is it screwing money out of people to make them pay for services they use?

I think the general feeling of resentment comes dueto the fact that AIB want you to have at least two and a half grand in your account at all times.

Ie, zero interest on your cash.

People who don't have that kind of money lying around, (who need charges the least) are the ones will be penalized here.

I bank with AIB btw.

smash

irelandrover wrote: »

I don't understand. How is it screwing money out of people to make them pay for services they use?

Do you think an additional quarterly fee plus 20-30c per transaction is a fair price to pay for the service consider there's no alternative, the state owns the bank, they've been bailed out by the tax payer to the heavens and to top all that, they make their own interest from your money in the first place?

irelandrover

Ghandee wrote: »

I think the general feeling of resentment comes dueto the fact that AIB want you to have at least two and a half grand in your account at all times.

Ie, zero interest on your cash.

People who don't have that kind of money lying around, (who need charges the least) are the ones will be penalized here.

I bank with AIB btw.

I bank with AIB too. you need 2500 in your account to avail of free fees. otherwise you pay. it is not screwing you to pay for services you use. i currently live abroad and pay fees on my bank account.

RedXIV

Closed my account with AIB last week, had two accounts, one in AIB and another in Ulster Bank, have to say, so far, absolutely no issues with Ulster Bank and happy to give AIB the finger

irelandrover

smash wrote: »

Do you think an additional quarterly fee plus 20-30c per transaction is a fair price to pay for the service consider there's no alternative, the state owns the bank, they've been bailed out by the tax payer to the heavens and to top all that, they make their own interest from your money in the first place?

Would you rather they consistently ran at a loss and needed further injection of taxpayer money or would it make more sense to have people pay for services they use so they don't need taxpayer money?

Biggins

JazzyJ wrote: »

Sure Bank of Ireland already have a minimum balance requirement of €3000. AIB are just keeping up with the Joneses.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056187979

Banks are cnuts.

The difference being (I could be wrong) alone between the BOI and the AIB, is that one is still a private business I think and the other is state owned now.
...And the state knows there is fcuk all money in people's pockets - never mind not a lot in their accounts - but still they are now further charging/penalising them for not having enough (when its the state thats mostly taking it in the first place!) ?

Thats just seriously (at least to me) taking even more of the piss out of the public!

Jonny303

I know this won't be popular, and believe me I'm not involved in the banks but the banks are a business and need to make a profit. They are providing a service, and it's only right that its paid for.

If we keep this attitude that "we own the banks, they should bow to us and do as we want", we will never get back to prosperity.

Yes we have pumped billions into the bank, and technically we own them but a good shop owner dosn't walk around his shop and take stock from his shelves and kid himself into thinking its costing him nothing

smash

irelandrover wrote: »

Would you rather they consistently ran at a loss and needed further injection of taxpayer money or would it make more sense to have people pay for services they use so they don't need taxpayer money?

Ran at a loss? They've been bailed out to balance their books and are letting go 4000 staff.

I have 3 accounts, a credit card and a mortgage with AIB. They make a lot of money from me already. but 2 of those accounts will be closing as a result of this.

This line is important so you can see how many will be affected by this:

AIB claimed that 40 per cent of its customers would still qualify for free banking, but this includes student and graduate accounts, and customers over 60 on AIB Advantage accounts, who will continue to get free banking under the existing terms of their accounts.

Chuck Stone

irelandrover wrote: »

Would you rather they consistently ran at a loss and needed further injection of taxpayer money

I'd hazard a guess that most people would rather that they never received a penny of tax payers money in the first place.

Biggins

Jonny303 wrote: »

I know this won't be popular, and believe me I'm not involved in the banks but the banks are a business and need to make a profit. They are providing a service, and it's only right that its paid for.

If we keep this attitude that "we own the banks, they should bow to us and do as we want", we will never get back to prosperity.

Yes we have pumped billions into the bank, and technically we own them but a good shop owner dosn't walk around his shop and take stock from his shelves and kid himself into thinking its costing him nothing

The banks are a business - and we have given them our money via accounts - but still they want more ...and more ...and more.

You are right - they ARE a business - so its their business to take our basic contributions and make that amount work for them (and for us).
If they fcuk up, they should be held accountable for any too blatant errors.
If they succeed, they should get a reward, thats fair enough.
...In the meantime however, you shouldn't just screw every last cent you can out of the people thats not only putting their trust - but further money - into you, thats just wrong on my book.
Its a immoral step too far!

I might be stupid and wrong for thinking the above buts thats how I feel.

Quite happy as usual that I'm with UB
it's pretty stupid - if you have 2,500 lying around, you'd put it in a savings account and actually earn some interest on it.
I hope they lose a lot of customers for this nonsense

irelandrover

Chuck Stone wrote: »

I'd hazard a guess that most people would rather that they never received a penny of tax payers money in the first place.

So people complain when the banks run at a loss and need state money yet they also complain when the bank take steps to run at a profit by charging people for the services they use.

Ghandee

Biggins wrote: »

The banks are a business - and we have given them our money via accounts - but still they want more ...and more ...and more.

You are right - they ARE a business - so its their business to take our basic contributions and make that amount work for them (and for us).
If they fcuk up, they should be held accountable for any too blatant errors.
If they succeed, they should get a reward, thats fair enough.
...In the meantime however, you shouldn't just screw every last cent you can out of the people thats not only putting their trust - and further money - into you, thats just wrong on my book.
Its a immoral step too far!

I might be stupid and wrong for thinking the above buts thats how I feel.

Biggins new sig is classic!:D

srsly78

In the UK you pay no fees on your current account, and most of them even give you some interest too

the groutch

A bank? Charging fees? For providing a service???
What has the world come to? :rolleyes:

amacca

eth0 wrote: »

existence tax

ah yes...cognito ergo sum -I think therefore I am

I exist therefore I am...taxed

it was only a matter of time


next up...........I consume oxygen therefore I must pay for it.

cocoshovel

I was planning to open a new account with TSB to avail of their visa debit card soon anyway and I guess this will give me that push to make the switch. AIB are a fairly poor bank anyway. Do these fee's apply to student accounts?

smash

cocoshovel wrote: »

Do these fee's apply to student accounts?

No. Read the article.

Run_to_da_hills

the groutch wrote: »

A bank? Charging fees? For providing a service???
What has the world come to? :rolleyes:

Yes and particularly after bailing them out for their errors using the deeds of the State that will tie us all in debt for generations to come.

Biggins

the groutch wrote: »

A bank? Charging fees? For providing a service???
What has the world come to? :rolleyes:

...while other banks also charge fees on some current accounts, they are calculated in a different way – for example by the amount of money passing through the account on a monthly basis, or the number of online banking transactions.
Under AIB’s new system, customers will need to maintain a balance of at least €2,500 in their current accounts for a three-month period in order to avoid the charges.
Otherwise accounts will be subjected to a €4.50 quarterly maintenance fee, with an additional 20c for every electronic transaction and 30c for every other transaction

http://businessetc.thejournal.ie/customers-should-consider-ditching-aib-over-new-charges-nca-chief-392258-Mar2012/

ACCOUNT HOLDERS with AIB should consider walking away from the bank after it introduced a new regime of charges, the chief executive of the National Consumer Agency has said.
Ann Fitzgerald called the charges “an insult” to current and future customers of AIB. She urged consumers not to “stay passive...

Nothingbetter2d

print the punt again :P sorry someone had to put that in before a mod locks the thread

Fran1985

Potential-Monke wrote: »

Having been with AIB & BOI, i can safely say PTSB have been the best so far. Let the bank burn, everyone should switch from them. Bully tactics is what that is.

Really PTSB, the bank forcing mortgage customers into default with their massively high interest rates on loans and mortgages? This is a bank is trying to tax its way of recession. Their loan book is full of loss making tracker mortgages that were givin away left right and centre. Only a matter of time before they put fee's on their accounts

JazzyJ wrote: »

Sure Bank of Ireland already have a minimum balance requirement of €3000. AIB are just keeping up with the Joneses.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056187979

Banks are cnuts.

I don't think thats true. I'm with bank of ireland and don't pay fees. if you use online banking 3 times a month (pay rent, bill and put 2pence into a low interest savings account) as well as have a certain amount of money going through your account, ie your salary, you wont pay fees. Yes its a few hoops but stuff you'll do anyway. just cancel standing orders and pay everything manually on 365, takes 2 minutes of your life.

In fairness, AIB should look at having a get out of paying fee's clause like BOI. Getting everyone to use online banking takes some of the work load of the staff, which in AIB's case will be reduced by 2500 over the coming months.

KingEnda

When I think of the wonderful promises AIB made me when I signed up with them when I was at college ..............

Run_to_da_hills

KingEnda wrote: »

When I think of the wonderful promises AIB made me when I signed up with them when I was at college ..............

That was the initial honeymoon period when you were offered all these low interest student loans etc, now you are out in the big bad world.

Fluorescence

Hope AIB lose all their customers for this bullshit. FFS they're a state owned bank now, they can't go pulling stunts like this.

No wonder all the older folk seem to be keeping all their money in cash these days.

Kensington

Going back to a cash economy is stupid. The banks charge a cash handling fee on retailers based on how much cash they process - in many cases it's cheaper (and safer) to handle electronic payments.
More cash = higher charges = higher prices charged to you and my by the retailer to cover costs.

Secondly, where does all the cash come from? The ATM. They'll just slap charges on cash withdrawals.

Frankly, the free banking sillyness was one of the celtic tiger feck ups by the banks. They allowed the money they made from investments and lending cover the day to day costs of providing current accounts. Since both of those fell through the floor they're now left with a massive shortfall of money. Providing you with banking services isn't free.

Free banking is on the way out - Ulster Bank announced recently their intentions to withdraw free banking, or introduce similar criteria to qualify for free banking. They're the last crowd currently offering it no strings attached.

smash

Kensington wrote: »

Secondly, where does all the cash come from? The ATM. They'll just slap charges on cash withdrawals.

And here's the problem. It's unavoidable. Companies do not pay in cash any more so you need a bank account.

Saint_Mel

Fran1985 wrote: »

...
In fairness, AIB should look at having a get out of paying fee's clause like BOI. ...

AIB had ... by using internet banking & Lazer a couple of times a quarter you were exempt ... but now they will be charging extra for using Lazer!

tunedout

irelandrover wrote: »

I don't understand. How is it screwing money out of people to make them pay for services they use?

You don't understand how it is screwing money?

One company is charging for these services, another company is providing a better service for free.Therefore , in my mind, the company that is charging is 'screwing' its customers.

Now they want me to pay them for keeping and accessing money that I give to them at a 0% interest rate? That 'service' I provide to them is <was> payment enough for their services.

My current business on other products, likely future business (now Ulster Banks future business), and cross selling opportunities I used to provide to AIB simply by being a Current Account holder more than paid for the cost of these services.

Nothingbetter2d

Kensington wrote: »

Going back to a cash economy is stupid. The banks charge a cash handling fee on retailers based on how much cash they process - in many cases it's cheaper (and safer) to handle electronic payments.
More cash = higher charges = higher prices charged to you and my by the retailer to cover costs.

Secondly, where does all the cash come from? The ATM. They'll just slap charges on cash withdrawals.

Frankly, the free banking sillyness was one of the celtic tiger feck ups by the banks. They allowed the money they made from investments and lending cover the day to day costs of providing current accounts. Since both of those fell through the floor they're now left with a massive shortfall of money. Providing you with banking services isn't free.

Free banking is on the way out - Ulster Bank announced recently their intentions to withdraw free banking, or introduce similar criteria to qualify for free banking. They're the last crowd currently offering it no strings attached.

if your shop has an atm u can offset some of the fees by lodging money into the atm

Doc Ruby

This is gas it really is.

Banks use your money to lend out for mortgages and businesses etc. By doing so they make a healthy profit.

So this is the banks charging you for the privelege of giving them a profit. You're literally paying them to rake in cash for themselves.

irelandrover

tunedout wrote: »

You don't understand how it is screwing money?

One company is charging for these services, another company is providing a better service for free.Therefore , in my mind, the company that is charging is 'screwing' its customers.

Now they want me to pay them for keeping and accessing money that I give to them at a 0% interest rate? That 'service' I provide to them is <was> payment enough for their services.

My current business on other products, likely future business (now Ulster Banks future business), and cross selling opportunities I used to provide to AIB simply by being a Current Account holder more than paid for the cost of these services.

if you give them enough money at 0% interest rates they give you free fees. What other banks are offering free fees? Ulster Bank have already stated that they are considering bringing in fees.

Charging you for services is not screwing you over.

Doc Ruby

Kensington wrote: »

They allowed the money they made from investments and lending cover the day to day costs of providing current accounts.

That's exactly what they are supposed to do; if they can't manage that they really shouldn't be in business.

I mean what an amazing service they provide, a place to store my money. Impressive. Its not like anyone else but a bank could do that.

tunedout

irelandrover wrote: »

if you give them enough money at 0% interest rates they give you free fees.

Why should I give them any money at 0% interest rate? They don't give me any at that rate.

irelandrover wrote: »

What other banks are offering free fees?

Ulster Bank

irelandrover wrote: »

Ulster Bank have already stated that they are considering bringing in fees.

Until that happens (probably won't), Ulster Bank will do just fine.

irelandrover wrote: »

Charging you for services is not screwing you over.

It is if you can get a better service somewhere else for free.

Kensington

Nothingbetter2d wrote: »

if your shop has an atm u can offset some of the fees by lodging money into the atm

I'm talking the likes of Dunnes, Tesco, Superquinn etc. where you could easily take in several thousand euro through a single till in the space of a couple of minutes. In the likes of The Square, for example, on a busy day you have 20 odd tills all going non-stop for hours on end in both Dunnes and Tesco.