How to ward off a dog attack? *Mod warning post #43*

hardybuck

seamus wrote: »

Not really. There's a measureable strength difference in the jaws, but all dogs are carnivores. Their teeth are designed to slice flesh and crush bone and are equally capable of causing serious injury. Getting attacked by any dog doesn't tickle.

The size of the dog is likely more important than the strength of their jaws as you will find it more difficult to subdue an angry labrador than an angry Pom.

The Spaniel is bred to have a soft mouth, the opposite of what you have listed above. A terrier is simply not capable of producting anything like the bite that a pitbull is.

While the pitbull may be as likely to bite as the rest, once it does it tends to be lethal. The would-be hard men who are buying them as status symbols these days is doing the breed a lot of damage.

DamagedTrax

hardybuck wrote: »

While the pitbull may be as likely to bite as the rest, once it does it tends to be lethal. .

:eek: what? pitbull bites tend to be lethal? so if you count up the amount of deaths caused by PBTs, by your reasoning that equates to the amount of times PBTs have bitten people?

seriously, either my grasp of english is on the way down or thats a bizarre statement :eek:

Enigma IE

andreac wrote: »

Sorry but what you have posted is the Restricted Breeds list, not a Dangerous Dogs list as you previously mentioned.

The two are very, very different so please dont confuse the two.

Well I was referring to the restricted breed list. My point was that the OP's neighbours dog should be muzzled when in public. The public perception of these dogs is that they are dangerous (or certainly more dangerous than other breeds not listed).

The reasoning being they are restricted and muzzled. I was not meant to imply they were dangerous.

DamagedTrax

Enigma IE wrote: »

Well I was referring to the restricted breed list. My point was that the OP's neighbours dog should be muzzled when in public. The public perception of these dogs is that they are dangerous (or certainly more dangerous than other breeds not listed).

The reasoning being they are restricted and muzzled.

but we shouldnt refer to them as dangerous when they're not. that just reinforces public perception. they are restricted because of their capability, just like a 1000cc bike is restricted to younger drivers.

capability and actuality are very different things.

andreac

Enigma IE wrote: »

Well I was referring to the restricted breed list. My point was that the OP's neighbours dog should be muzzled when in public. The public perception of these dogs is that they are dangerous (or certainly more dangerous than other breeds not listed).

The reasoning being they are restricted and muzzled. I was not meant to imply they were dangerous.

They should never be referred to as Dangerous as they have a bad enough rep as it is without people calling them that.
They are not on the list as they are perceived more dangerous than others, you really should do more reseach before posting such information :rolleyes:

Yes, breeds on the list are meant to be muzzled in public but the OP hasnt even had an issue with these dogs yet and hes wondering about fending off an attack!!

hardybuck

DamagedTrax wrote: »

:eek: what? pitbull bites tend to be lethal? so if you count up the amount of deaths caused by PBTs, by your reasoning that equates to the amount of times PBTs have bitten people?

seriously, either my grasp of english is on the way down or thats a bizarre statement :eek:

What are you on about? My point is that if the pitbull bites you, you're in serious trouble. If a terrier bit you it mightn't only just about break the skin. Don't complicate it any more than it needs to.

DamagedTrax

hardybuck wrote: »

What are you on about? My point is that if the pitbull bites you, you're in serious trouble. If a terrier bit you it mightn't only just about break the skin. Don't complicate it any more than it needs to.

you said "pitbull bites tend to be lethal"

if you're over dramatising the word lethal then fair enough... but in a heated discussion with breed owners who take enough BS from the public you might want to make sure you pick your words carefully or people will get their back up.

Enigma IE

andreac wrote: »

They should never be referred to as Dangerous as they have a bad enough rep as it is without people calling them that.
They are not on the list as they are perceived more dangerous than others, you really should do more reseach before posting such information :rolleyes:

Yes, breeds on the list are meant to be muzzled in public but the OP hasnt even had an issue with these dogs yet and hes wondering about fending off an attack!!

I meant restricted, not dangerous. Yes, they are different and point taken.

Just one things however, why are they on the restricted breeds list?

andreac

Enigma IE wrote: »

I meant restricted, not dangerous. Yes, they are different and point taken.

Just one things however, why are they on the restricted breeds list?[/QUOTE]

See Damagedtrax post above in reference to that.

They are also there because of ignorant, narrow minded, clueless people.

DamagedTrax

Enigma IE wrote: »

Just one things however, why are they on the restricted breeds list?

capability to do damage. and idiot owners who use them as weapons instead of pets.

this is 99% of the breed. happy loveable dogs


unfortunatly in the wrong hands they turn into the typical red top characiture. everytime a pit bull attack happens they seem to pull this picture out. i must have seen it on at least 4 different stories at this stage.. including the one that turned out to be a lab attack

hardybuck

DamagedTrax wrote: »

you said "pitbull bites tend to be lethal"

if you're over dramatising the word lethal then fair enough...

Grow up.

Just the one lethal case springs to mind recently though now that I think of it. A woman was walking along on a busy street with a toddler and a small dog on the lead. Not sure what breed.

Anyway a loose pitbull came along, picked up the dog like a toy and savaged it in front of everyone on the street. You can imagine the trauma. Taxi drivers and passers by managed to kick it off eventually.

I haven't heard too many stories of poodles doing this recently.

star-pants

Guys we are not getting into a debate about the restricted breeds list. Only posts from here on are to be about how to defend oneself against ANY dog and I'm changing the title too.

Any posts that are not about how to defend oneself will incur an infraction or ban.

runawaybishop

nevermind

ceegee

I think some of the bull owners on the thread are a bit oversensitive about the way these dogs are viewed. The op has small children and imo he's right to want to know the best way to deal with an attack should it occur. Hes not saying the dog will attack but fending off a pitbull IS a different task to fending off a poodle, and as a responsible parent he should know how to protect his kids if the worst should happen. Likewise I would expect responsible owners of pitbulls to be more prepared for this scenario than owners of some tiny lapdog, they may be less likely to attack than other breeds but the risk of damage is far greater

DamagedTrax

and the OP has been given very good info on how to ward off an attack. talk to the owner, introduce the dog, socialise it with the children.

prevention is better than cure.

to stop an actual attack that is taking place is a completly different scenario. there are no hard fast rules, different dogs will react differently. loud shouting might get rid of one dog but another may need a break stick twisted into its jaws.

its not an easy question to answer unfortunatly but unless the owner is a f'in eejit there's little chance of it happening anyway.

Discodog

But if you set off with the mindset that you want to avoid a very unlikely attack then you will also be scared of the possibility of an attack. This then makes you more likely to be bitten by any dog that senses your fear & reads it as aggression. The dog sees it that if you are afraid, to their eyes, it may be because you are planning to fight or defend yourself.

There is an excellent leaflet entitled "Staying Safe with Dogs" - if you google that exact wording you will see it downloadable as a PDF feel free to PM me if you can't see it. It is written by experts who deal with dogs & families all day long.

axle108

You have two choices here.

You can spend the years that this dog lives beside you worrying whether this dog will attack your kids.

Or you can bring the kids in to see the pup when it arrives. This will introduce them to each other. What harm can a pup be at this stage, even one you fear could attack when older. Then as the dog is growing and going out on walks and your kids are out, they will continually reintroduce and grow up together. Your kids can give treats when the owner is going out with the pup. The dog will love to see the kids. By socialising the dog to your kids, especially when young you have a far better chance of preventing any problems in the future and this goes for whatever breed the neighbour chooses.

callmekenneth

water. water squirted from a bottle down their nose might make them let go if they have a grip on you.

i dont understand people who think viciousness cant be bred into a dog. look at sheepdog, you can get a pup that has never been in a field, near a sheep or ever trained in the slightest but there's something in them their DNA that makes them try to herd. why can aggressive/vicious behaviour not similarly be passed down?

it is fair to be wary of pitbulls, no other dog has been designed and bred like they have to fight to the death, the "flight" seems to be non existent in some of them. i'd say their neck muscles are so thick choking them out would be very difficult. i saw a video where a pitbull was attacking a woman's on the lead dog in brazil, polic arrived and kicked it very hard until it let go, it ended up dying from it's injuries and it's tail never stopped wagging, both woman and her pet were injured.

poisonated

<BANNED>

DamagedTrax

callmekenneth wrote: »

i dont understand people who think viciousness cant be bred into a dog. look at sheepdog

i dont wanna stray too off topic but i guess it's related. if not feel free to delete MOD

pit bulls were bred for dog fighting. we all know that. but that dark part of their history is also their saving grace as they were bred to be completely human friendly. the 'handler' had to be in the ring with the dog and any dogs that showed human aggression were culled.

its not a nice subject but it is a very big part of the breed and how they are with humans.

a well bred pit shouldnt show human aggression.

the problem dogs come from whacker wanting to breed his crazy bitch to gitser's nutter dog (no offence intended to anyone called whacker or gitser!). or the money hungry breeders who will breed a blue dog because they know it will fetch top dollar but give no consideration to temperment.

Laisurg

Not had any issues with dogs myself but when my father has been attacked by a fair few dogs (apparently training dogs to fight was quite fashionable where he grew up :mad:) he said he used to just kick them in the head repeatedly and hope they backed off so really not sure if there's a reliable way of defending yourself against a large dog that's gone berserk without a weapon apart from climbing onto something that they can't get onto.
To be honest I think the best course of action would be to teach the kids how to treat a dog (eg not to pull on its ears, tail or poke it in the eyes etc) and introduce the kids to it when it comes.

callmekenneth

DamagedTrax wrote: »

i dont wanna stray too off topic but i guess it's related. if not feel free to delete MOD

pit bulls were bred for dog fighting. we all know that. but that dark part of their history is also their saving grace as they were bred to be completely human friendly. the 'handler' had to be in the ring with the dog and any dogs that showed human aggression were culled.

its not a nice subject but it is a very big part of the breed and how they are with humans.

a well bred pit shouldnt show human aggression.

the problem dogs come from whacker wanting to breed his crazy bitch to gitser's nutter dog (no offence intended to anyone called whacker or gitser!). or the money hungry breeders who will breed a blue dog because they know it will fetch top dollar but give no consideration to temperment.

very interesting. i think we're not talking about well bred pits though.

fight til you're too tired then play dead...

getz

well from my experience when faced with a aggressive dog ,is to stand perfectly still and calm[i know this may be hard to do] the dog will come over to have a sniff,then when it realizes you are not a threat it will walk away,if you have a small dog and it comes over to attack,stand between your dog and the aggressive dog it will send out a signal to it that you are a pack leader and it will keep its distance,i often meet large dogs that when they see my bully get aggressive,my bully knows i am the pack leader and will protect him so he stays calm ,so far i have had three bullies and two staffies and as yet no aggressive dogs have gone passed me

DamagedTrax

callmekenneth wrote: »

very interesting. i think we're not talking about well bred pits though.

we dont know what type of breeding the pit in question is. it might not even be a pit, you'd be amazed at how many people wouldnt know a pit bull if shown one.

have a look at this little quiz and see how you do.

http://www.pitbullsontheweb.com/petbull/findpit.html

Discodog

callmekenneth wrote: »

i dont understand people who think viciousness cant be bred into a dog. look at sheepdog, you can get a pup that has never been in a field, near a sheep or ever trained in the slightest but there's something in them their DNA that makes them try to herd. why can aggressive/vicious behaviour not similarly be passed down?

Any dog can be made to be aggressive by ill treatment or by encouraging & rewarding aggression. It's not about the dog or it's breeding. Yes some breeds have natural traits but aggression isn't natural - it has to be taught by man. Aggression is too risky which is why the majority of dog fights end with little damage.

This is why the UK are proposing to change the law away from breeds & onto responsible owners - it will be a criminal offence to posses a dog as a weapon or train one to be aggressive.

Yes any big, strong dog could pose a threat but we don't perceive most of them as dangerous. Our impressions are based on what we see. So the snarling guard dog is often a GSD or the "self defence" or "weapon" dog is sometimes a Pit Bull. Our irrational fear of certain breeds actually makes the situation worse because it makes the irresponsible people choose them. A St Bernard could inflict serious damage to a person but we see them as big & cuddly helping people trapped in snow etc. If scumbags started owning Labradors we would soon see them as a dangerous breed. Its not the breed but the type of owner & the reason why they have the dog.

DamagedTrax

someone once said to me that if jack russells were the size of pit bulls they'd be the thug's favoured dog

hollypink

A question on the dog's trust leaflet - it says you should walk rather than run from a bad-tempered/angry dog.

I run in a rural area sometimes and I generally encounter one or two dogs outside the houses on my route. Sometimes they just bark a lot and rush to the gate to make sure I'm not hanging around but the other day, one was growling as well as barking and came out onto the road towards me. I crossed to the other side of the road and kept running at the same pace (which is pretty slow in fairness). Was that the wrong thing to do? Should I have stopped and walked? In this case, the dog didn't chase me, just stood on the road watching but it would really scare me if one did chase me, even if that's all he did.

DamagedTrax

hollypink wrote: »

A question on the dog's trust leaflet - it says you should walk rather than run from a bad-tempered/angry dog.

I run in a rural area sometimes and I generally encounter one or two dogs outside the houses on my route. Sometimes they just bark a lot and rush to the gate to make sure I'm not hanging around but the other day, one was growling as well as barking and came out onto the road towards me. I crossed to the other side of the road and kept running at the same pace (which is pretty slow in fairness). Was that the wrong thing to do? Should I have stopped and walked? In this case, the dog didn't chase me, just stood on the road watching but it would really scare me if one did chase me, even if that's all he did.

sounds like it was just a little 'hey this is my area' from the dog. you crossed the road and any confrontation was avoided so yes, it was the right thing to do in that situation.

Discodog

hollypink wrote: »

A question on the dog's trust leaflet - it says you should walk rather than run from a bad-tempered/angry dog.

I run in a rural area sometimes and I generally encounter one or two dogs outside the houses on my route. Sometimes they just bark a lot and rush to the gate to make sure I'm not hanging around but the other day, one was growling as well as barking and came out onto the road towards me. I crossed to the other side of the road and kept running at the same pace (which is pretty slow in fairness). Was that the wrong thing to do? Should I have stopped and walked? In this case, the dog didn't chase me, just stood on the road watching but it would really scare me if one did chase me, even if that's all he did.

I would always slow to a walk - mind you I never run

Talk to the dogs & get to know them then they will learn to ignore you. My neighbour's collie used to rush out barking when I walked my dogs past the drive - now he comes with us for a walk

hollypink

DamagedTrax wrote: »

sounds like it was just a little 'hey this is my area' from the dog. you crossed the road and any confrontation was avoided so yes, it was the right thing to do in that situation.

Hope I didn't derail the thread but it was kind of a similar query. I should add though that unlike the OP, this dog wasn't a pitbull. It was actually a small dog although I wouldn't have a clue of the breed. I can understand the OP being nervous about a pitbull, to someone unfamiliar with dogs like myself, the name conjures up an image of aggression (unfairly, I accept). I'm sure I encounter them when I'm out running in parks around Dublin and I'm not afraid of them because I don't recognise breeds so only judge them by their behaviour!

Discodog wrote: »

I would always slow to a walk - mind you I never run

Talk to the dogs & get to know them then they will learn to ignore you. My neighbour's collie used to rush out barking when I walked my dogs past the drive - now he comes with us for a walk

Getting to know the dogs isn't an option really, I'm only there once a month or so. It would be good if other people started running or walking on that route so the growling dog would get used to people passing by the gate. At the moment, pedestrians are a bit of a rarity there.