Proposed cut to Allowances

Flashgordon197

Various pay agreements have legally treated the Degree allowance for teachers as part of core pay and even for pension purposes. A degree is obviously necessary for teaching. It should never have been called an allowance as that has connotations of something temporary -while its obviously not.
The main reason why teachers allowances were targeted was because shock horror most of our graduates going into teaching have honours degrees and an MA. Paying new entrants 27K after 4 years in college is a joke. You will get the dregs of graduates into the Profession if this continues. I know the usual anti teacher pedants will start replying now. The same pedants who have chips on their shoulders going back decades . We have major issues in the modern classroom controlling kids who have not been taught basic manners -we need to pay new teachers a decent wage.
I look forward to court case if they cut my allowance.

I would warn all teachers that they will try and cut your allowances BUT after the Fiscal Referendum

Inspector Coptoor

The allowances need to be done away with and the gross amount of your Degree and Dip allowance added on to your point on the scale and let their be just one number on the left hand side of the pay packet for basic wage.

Any A, B or SD positions could be added as/if they were forthcoming.

I agree completely with the above poster.
the "allowances" are part of our pay and should be treated as such, not referred to as some sort of bonus.

TheDriver

allowances are a wrong terminology, its more the jogsaw that makes up our pay, thats it. Allowances sound like some nice freebie that we should be lucky we have.

dambarude

This has caused massive consternation in the teaching colleges (well Mary I anyway). There was a protest about a month/three weeks ago which was quite well attended. I and many others have written to TDs all over the place. I've about 15-20 generic reply letters sitting in my drawer from TDs, and the two ministers involved. Ruairí Quinn is very non-commital on it, and passes the book to Brendan Howlin's department at every opportunity. This is the stock response:

Ruair&#237 wrote: »

Thank you for your recent email to the Minister for Education and Skills, Mr. Ruairi Quinn T.D.

As you are aware, regardless of starting pay, the remuneration of teachers in the same school will often differ due to a number of factors such as the qualifications held by individuals, the work undertaken by the teacher as well as the starting date of the teacher in the public schools system. Teachers who were new entrants to teaching between 5 December 2011 and 31st January 2012 are eligible for allowances on the basis of their qualifications at entry to the profession to a maximum of €4,426 p.a. As of 1st February 2012 no new beneficiaries will receive allowances (excluding principal and deputy principal allowances) until the outcome of the public sector wide review of allowances by the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform.

This interim position was taken as, without immediate action, the upward pressure on the cost of qualification allowances due to increased general levels of education in the population would have cancelled out savings made elsewhere in the education system and would bring about even harsher adjustments to schools and services than have been seen in the past number of years.

The Minister is not in a position to comment further on the position in relation to teacher allowances until the outcome of the public service-wide review of allowances is known. If you have any further queries in this regard you may contact the Departments Schools Division, Teachers Terms and Conditions Section in Cornamaddy, Athlone, Co. Westmeath, ph: 090 648 3600.

I hope this information is of assistance to you.

The INTO was initially very slow to say anything of note on the matter, wary as they were of upsetting the applecart with established teachers.

The Teaching Council has apparently sent a response to the minister on the matter. This is one of few places where they have a direct remit - the upholding of standards in the profession.

Had I graduated three years ago my salary would upwards of 25% higher. As it stands many current teachers-in-training are seriously questioning their career choice.

lennyloulou

I feel so sorry for any new graduates that will be job seeking shortly.... i am teaching 10 yrs..... lived on the basics in college, had no social life that 'identifies' with the typical student life... i had high rent for the area and worked my ass off for college.
The sacrifices my parents made were fantastic and tough on them-to help me out with food, clothes for teaching practice and the basics while i studied for the 4 years- we had 6 reaching practices- anyhow..... I could not have done it without them ( i also worked part time in a pub, collecting glasses)
What i am saying is - Was the struggle through college worth it, then the job hunting and job to job for three years..... I REALLY DO NOT KNOW!
i love my subject and the kids by and large are great.... but when it comes down to it... my wages are a struggle to live on- i really do not know how in the world new graduates will be supoose to live /pay rent/eventaully get mortgages/pay VHI etc- ye are taking a HUGE CUT and not enough is been done about it.......
Unfortunately i think ye are all being bullied

Southeast1

I agree with all the above posters. Allowances are and always have been a part of core pay. What is happening to new entrants is disgraceful and in my opinion, maybe even unconstitutional. I think student teachers or NQT's should request their union to take a legal case against it. Its time to stand up for ourselves. The Department will do as much against us as they think they can get away with. People need to wake up IMO as the pressures on teachers are increasing year on year.
Planning, out of hours meetings, Incidental Inspections, and the constant bashing by certain sections of the media are taking their toll on the profession.

I worry greatly for the future of education in this country especially in light of Quinn's 'reform' (or should i say cost cutting!!!) agenda.

doc_17

I am very much against the targeting of younger and NQTs. The unions should be doing more. But just as an aside - I was at a union meeting meeting recently and there wasn't anyone there under 30. Decisions are made by those who show up.

TheDriver

thats because any union meeting I have had experience of goes on and on and on and seems to be lots of discussion but never a decision quickly.

doc_17

Our union meetings are always less than 2 hours, not excessively long in my opinion.

And if a teachers don't want to come to them because of their duration then they shouldn't really complain too much about the erosion of their terms and conditions. Decisions are made by those who show up.

TheDriver

but how can you expect people to turn up when they are going to be facing into a meeting with 2 "experienced" members going around in circles arguing about something as interesting as jacks paper.
I wish our branch was like yours to be honest

doc_17

Run for election. Change rarely happens unless someone makes it happen!

Flashgordon197

Im a proud member ASTI but Im starting to have doubts over its effectiveness. A prime example is last years convention passed a motion stating opposition to Incidental inspections-but lo and behold on they go.

My understanding is that there is a Pro Pat King majority on Standing committee that in general moderates any serious radicalism. Now I know Mr King was right to get us back into Croke Park but now we are drifting towards the rocks. You can bet you the Government has a further agenda to screw us and I have heard some of this directly from a senior inspector.

Basically management duties will be part and parcel of all you day-for no Pay. Supervision for free.

The drifting towards the rocks is also due to members. Half the schools in Dublin dont have a school steward. I know Dublin North sent a petition to many Dublin schools to get incidental inspections special conference and in many schools nothing happened.

BTW-there is a rally in the teachers club at 830 pm this Tuesday to fight back against this drift/cuts.

doconnell

Someone in another education forum that I usually frequent has asked if people will actually bother to attend this rally on the 27th. As a trainee about to qualify to work in a profession that will now pay under the average industrial wage (If I'm lucky)...I'll be there! It will be interesting to see the turnout of young teachers on Tues.

Cailin CoisFarraige

doconnell wrote: »

Someone in another education forum that I usually frequent has asked if people will actually bother to attend this rally on the 27th. As a trainee about to qualify to work in a profession that will now pay under the average industrial wage (If I'm lucky)...I'll be there! It will be interesting to see the turnout of young teachers on Tues.

If only it was that easy. With 3 weeks left until the end of semester, essays, assignments and presentations due, I wish I had the luxury of going off protesting on Tuesday.
At the minute, getting the best degree I can has to take priority over what I think, unfortunately, might be a waste of time. NQT's are being taken advantage of because we don't have the formal power to represent ourselves. It's disappointing and frustrating but there doesn't seem to be anyone interested that has the power to reverse these decisions. Best of luck doconnell, hope Tuesday goes well.

solerina

lennyloulou wrote: »

I feel so sorry for any new graduates that will be job seeking shortly.... i am teaching 10 yrs..... lived on the basics in college, had no social life that 'identifies' with the typical student life... i had high rent for the area and worked my ass off for college.
The sacrifices my parents made were fantastic and tough on them-to help me out with food, clothes for teaching practice and the basics while i studied for the 4 years- we had 6 reaching practices- anyhow..... I could not have done it without them ( i also worked part time in a pub, collecting glasses)
What i am saying is - Was the struggle through college worth it, then the job hunting and job to job for three years..... I REALLY DO NOT KNOW!
i love my subject and the kids by and large are great.... but when it comes down to it... my wages are a struggle to live on- i really do not know how in the world new graduates will be supoose to live /pay rent/eventaully get mortgages/pay VHI etc- ye are taking a HUGE CUT and not enough is been done about it.......
Unfortunately i think ye are all being bullied

I totally agree with you...13 years teaching, started on point 3 of the scale and although I am managing to keep all my bills paid I definately do not have money for luxuries, its a struggle to save for a summer holiday etc. The NQTs are really being made scape goats and if I find money tight I really feel for them as their wages are so much less.