Bertie Ahern statement/resignation

lividduck

AngryBollix wrote: »

The irish electorate have a lot to answer for.

As it is foolish to let FF forget what they've done, it is equally foolish the let FF voters forget what they've done.

To make matters worse we still have FF apologists standing up for the likes of Bertie Ahern which is sickening

Sounds a bit like blaming the child abuse victim for trusting the adult.
People voted based on what they knew and on the choice available to them.
We all have a lot to learn.
As fot FF apologists they remind me of holocaust deniers

AngryBollix

ilovesleep wrote: »

Did you watch the youtube clip above of Bertie telling people to commit suicide. His supporters howling laughing and appaudling him. Sickening

These people will continue to support this party. No matter what

AngryBollix

lividduck wrote: »

Sounds a bit like blaming the child abuse victim for trusting the adult.
People voted based on what they knew and on the choice available to them.
We all have a lot to learn.
As fot FF apologists they remind me of holocaust deniers

The difference between child abuse victims and FF voters is that FF voters had a choice in the matter

There are a list of people that perfectly embrace the FF ethos perfectly.

Ray Burke, P Flynn, Charles Haughey etc.

The evidence of FF bullsh1t has been around since before Bertie became leader.

People took the easy way out and chose to ignore what was staring them in the face

ilovesleep

steddyeddy wrote: »

Heres the link: The household taxs goes towards local councils. Local councillers in some cases are massivley corrupt. Our ex prime minister was massivley corrupt. This comes after another ex prime minister took ten million in untaxed donations. None of those people went to jail or will go to jail.

Now I really work hard. A country that doesnt prosecute people who break the law, wastes any taxes and in the process cant account for money spent (county councils) and is corrupt to a level that makes some africans countries jealous doesnt deserve my taxes. It really doesnt. Im better than that. My taxes should go to better ran countries than that. So theres the link bertie pays no taxes on massive donations recieves no fines or jail time and we are all expected to pay a 100 euro each.

There is a counciller out my way and rumour has it he is receiving 5 pensions nearing to 200,000 euros a year.

I don't know what he is like as a person, if he's corrupt or not. The system is broken here in that it allows this imo.

ninebeanrows

steddyeddy wrote: »

By the way are people in poverty who cant pay the tax clueless?

What percentage of houseowners in Ireland are deemed to be in poverty?

Maybe 5-10%, being very generous there. So no reason for those not in poverty to fork out here 2 euro a week. So we should have a 90% take up.

ninebeanrows

It's fair enough expressing your anger at politics etc in this country.

But using it as an excuse not to pay a charge is pathetic.

With this attitude, we'll soon complete our transformation into a failed state.

sunflower27

The country is f*cked yes, and who is responsible for that? And who is now thinking ah sure, no bother here is €100 to get us out of this mess.

It won't get us out of this mess - it is barely going to scratch the surface and who here really believes that the money is going to be well spent? I know I don't. Why would anyone?

Ireland is a laughing stock - the people that ran this country should be thoroughly ashamed but why should they care? They are still being looked after. No skin off their nose is it?

I am not paying! In case that wasn't obvious enough

€2 a week, yeah, and it is staying in my pocket.

Biggins

Weathercheck wrote: »

It's fair enough expressing your anger at politics etc in this country.

But using it as an excuse not to pay a charge is pathetic.

With this attitude, we'll soon complete our transformation into a failed state.

With the attitude of many in top FF being about a personal grab for cash and assets - it didn't stop them away from their direction of personal greed, into what they should have been doing - stopping our state falling to a failed one!

...But they were too busy gaining and grabbing "what the country can give to me personally - not what I can give the country!" to actually perhaps keep their eye on the bigger ball - you know, their elected job! - and let our state fall to the state it's in now!

sunflower27

Biggins wrote: »

With the attitude of many in top FF being about a personal grab for cash and assets - it did stop them away from their direction of personal greed, into what they should have been doing - stopping our state falling to a failed one!

Greed - that is the word.

I moved to Ireland in 2000 and it is my home and where I intend to stay. But I remember thinking very early on - where are the taxes going? The roads are abysmal and the healthcare system a joke. Where are the rewards of paying tax because it certainly isn't being pumped into healthcare, hospitals for children, those in need.

It is out and out corruption and greed that got Ireland in this mess and to hell am I forking out to pay for it.

The people that had the chance to improve things for all of Ireland in the main were far too concerned with lining their own pockets - and that is clear as day.

If it is true that Irish politicians are paid more than anywhere else in the world, then I am not remotely surprised.

Doc Ruby

Weathercheck wrote: »

But using it as an excuse not to pay a charge is pathetic.

I think while many people have a problem with the charge, most would be a lot happier paying for it if there wasn't such chronic waste and incompetence throughout the public sector, to say nothing of obscenities like the ECB demanding that the Irish taxpayer cover unsecured bondholders.

We're all getting bent over a barrel here to satisy the whims of people like Bertie, which is why there is such rage at his ongoing shenanigans.

CatFromHue

Does anyone think that Bertie might not have had a bank account as he was going through a divorce and so didn't want his wife getting any of his money? If this was the case when giving his account with the Mahon Tribunal he wouldn't have been able to say this.

lividduck

AngryBollix wrote: »

The difference between child abuse victims and FF voters is that FF voters had a choice in the matter

There are a list of people that perfectly embrace the FF ethos perfectly.

Ray Burke, P Flynn, Charles Haughey etc.

The evidence of FF bullsh1t has been around since before Bertie became leader.

People took the easy way out and chose to ignore what was staring them in the face

What choice, in 2002 we had a choice between Noonan fried of the Taximen and Eircom shareholders, who had just accused a woman of dying of HepC for spite or FF who appeared to have steered the country towards internal peace and economic prosperity.
That said I voted against them in 2007.

the purple tin

Now that Fatty Ahern has resigned from FF, will that affect his pensions at all?

sunflower27

CatFromHue wrote: »

Does anyone think that Bertie might not have had a bank account as he was going through a divorce and so didn't want his wife getting any of his money? If this was the case when giving his account with the Mahon Tribunal he wouldn't have been able to say this.

He couldn't lie straight in bed, so yeah, am sure he was doing something dodgy.

He is an incompetent fool :rolleyes:

Biggins

the purple tin wrote: »

Now that Fatty Ahern has resigned from FF, will that effect his pensions at all?

No, no, no...

The creep gets his pensions for every four years he has served in the Dail.
His pensions have NOTHING to do with his membership of Fianna Fail.

Wild Bill

AJ1 wrote: »

The Mahon Tribunal is a dog without teeth - €300 million euro later and what do you think was the fallout?

Lots of very rich barristers!

Wild Bill

lividduck wrote: »

Sounds a bit like blaming the child abuse victim for trusting the adult.
People voted based on what they knew and on the choice available to them.
We all have a lot to learn.
As fot FF apologists they remind me of holocaust deniers

Holocaust deniers - some of them - the FF vote has crashed from 40% to 15%...even before this report.

However - the child abuse analogy is not only stupid it is seriously offensive to the helpless victims of child abuse :mad:

KKkitty

Bertie was the proverbial wolf in sheeps clothing. He's ripped this country to shreds. Families are suffering due to his corruption. He's a gangster. I for one wouldn't blast the cnut with piss if he was on fire. He knew what he was doing and still continued to do it to the detriment of those who he claimed to govern. I will have no sympathy if he is jailed.

NakedNNettles

He ripped the country to shreds yet got voted into government by the people three times.

Hmmmm! Me confused.

Park Royal

So the dogs in the street knew what was going on......

!.will the dogs advise where the 45,000 dollars came from...???

!!,why did Bertie "not tell the truth" on these matters rather than tell the

truth?

!!!, was it more beneficial for him not to give full details , are the people

who gave him the money so ugly he is afraid of them???.

!!!!, can he show his face in Croke Park?????

v!, it appears there is a case for attacking his pension, as he had a contract

to the state as TD and as Minister. This contract has been broken by his

actions , his state payments can be adjusted as a censure measure.

Indeed all the ministers in the cabinet who set up the Tribunal are guilty of

negligence and should have payment deductions until the Tribunal costs

are paid ......."collective responsibility" ....

v , how is it there are no leaks from Bank Officials , civil servants, taxi

men, house cleaners, St Lukes volunteers, that could shine further light

on these matters.....?

Let the dogs speak now , thanks.....

BackScrub

Weathercheck wrote: »

I don't get the link between Bertie and normal people paying the household charge?

Sure why don't we all just stop paying taxes and charges?

Sure , we'd be a fine little nation then.

Some people are really clueless.

You reckon I'm clueless do you? OK, go ahead, sign up so if you want.

When do you think enough is enough then? Do you look at your payslip at all to see how much you're already shelling out? Where's the USC going?

I pity the level your brain is operating at if you were able to pick out the bit where I said we should all stop paying taxes and charges.

Jesus Christ, don't quote a post and then put your own unique twist on what I actually said.

Bah, what am I on about? I don't really care what you think, let them keep pissing on you.

Nodin

Brendan O'Connor Today -

DON'T like Bertie Ahern. Never did. Never got it. Tried to respect that other people did, even though I found that hard.

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/analysis/brendan-oconnor-we-may-never-know-the-true-cost-of-aherns-demise-3060504.html

Brendan O'Connor March 9th 2008

We have seen the greatest minds of our generation destroyed by madness and we have seen the greatest politician of our generation and his government rendered impotent by that madness at the very time we need them most.

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/analysis/times-up-mahon-it-is-getting-tedious-1311528.html

(my bold)

Biggins

Nodin wrote: »

Brendan O'Connor Today -

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/analysis/brendan-oconnor-we-may-never-know-the-true-cost-of-aherns-demise-3060504.html

Brendan O'Connor March 9th 2008

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/analysis/times-up-mahon-it-is-getting-tedious-1311528.html

(my bold)

Them and their short memories... :rolleyes:

“When the final report of the Mahon Tribunal is published, we will act without fear or favour against anyone who is shown to have abused their position in Fianna Fail or in elected office. Action will be swift and comprehensive,”

Micheál Martin, Fianna Fail Ard Fheis, March 2, 2012

Sinead Desmond (presenter): “You’re representing a new Fianna Fail, but then I was thinking about two things from your past. One of them being a – totally legitimate – donation by [Cork property developer] Owen O’Callaghan that found its way into your wife’s Dublin bank account.

That seemed strange to me and had a sniff of the old Fianna Fail. And the second thing, in the Mahon Tribunal you were asked if you ever brought Owen O’Callaghan to meet Bertie Ahern and you said no that you would have remembered if such a thing happened.

And then you were shown Mr Ahern’s ministerial diary which seemed to recollect a meeting between yourself, Bertie Ahern and Owen O’Callaghan but you said you couldn’t recall it. I’ll give you a chance to explain but both of those incidents smell of the old Fianna Fail that put ourselves in the position we find ourselves in.”

LINK

I wonder how is Mr Martins memory to this above statement regarding "swift action" and upon himself for anything that needs to be looked into, questioned and penalties done where applicable?

Fighting Irish

Fighting Irish wrote: »

We asked for it

I dont dispute that either

Wild Bill

But somehow the media and the opposition believe we can afford the luxury of having the majority of political and media energy of this country expended on hounding Bertie Ahern.

Brendan O'Conner in the Sindo, before he re-imagined his past :rolleyes: (calling for Moriarty to be shut down; part of an Indo campaign against the tribunal at the time - early 2008)

As I said earlier:

Bertie responded to Morgan Kelly by advocating folk opposed to Government policy or concerned about loo-la economics should commit suicide.

Six years later, after Kelly and other are totally vindicated, their equally obvious and accurate assessment of the bail-out scam (aka FF policy being implemented by the FG/Lab Regime) is equally dismissively, if not so colourfully, rubbished.

And we have people quoting the 49% Government approval in new poll as vindication of their myopia! Many of these clowns have to be the very same people who supported Bertie in 2006 :pac:

Now they are whining "we didn't know/nobody told us" about the looming catastrophe (and - reality check - that is the REAL issue here; without the crash, FF would still be in power and Moriarty consigned to crank's corner - and nobody bar the die-hard anti-FF element would give a twaddle).

When the bail-out scam implodes in misery and tears (as it most assuredly will) we'll get the same drones once again claiming they didn't realize/weren't warned!

And when the current Regime is exposed for the duplicitous sleazeballs they clearly are we can have an Enda hatefest - just like the current Bertie one!

Not that I'm not feeling a certain Schadenfreude at plight of Bertie-th-B***** :cool:

Brendan O'C is but one example of the rather unedifying spectacle of former blind supporters now leading the lynch mob.

As they will when Enda's time comes after the collapse of the German Banking scam

ilovesleep

I was thinking about this during the week and it's just a thought but I will throw it out there all the same.

May 2008, Bertie Ahern gave up his role as Taoiseach and passed it onto Cowen. It was reported last year in the papers that there was a dinner between himself (Ahern) and others including banking officials. Why did he leave so suddenly but he knew something - more than likely he knew the banks were rotten and going down. He loosen banking regulation and this was the result - failing banks. He left to resolve himself of his responsibilities.

Now I ask, and I suppose nobody will know but was he the only one of his cabinet that knew of information on the banks. Did he share this information with anyone like Cowen and Lenihan or did he keep it to himself resulting in an overnight rushed job to save the banks in the september of 2008. The result which was disasterous for our economy. If he withheld such information from Cowen and Lenihan, he caused more damage upon damage. If Cowen and Lenihan knew maybe perhaps they could have worked with the EU throughout the summer creating some sort of a rescue plan instead of what they issued - a blanket bank gaurantee on behave of the taxpayer.

Wild Bill

ilovesleep wrote: »

Now I ask, and I suppose nobody will know but was he the only one of his cabinet that knew of information on the banks.

Clearly not. As I have stated above, Morgan Kelly (and very many others) knew - and he was advised to top himself for saying so. :cool:

Next we'll be hearing that Micky Martin, 14 years in Government, didn't know!

And next year (or the year after) we'll be told that "nobody knew" that Kenny/Gilmore where purveyors of economic catastrophe.

Gimme a f****** break :mad:

lividduck

Biggins wrote: »

Them and their short memories... :rolleyes:





LINK

I wonder how is Mr Martins memory to this above statement regarding "swift action" and upon himself for anything that needs to be looked into, questioned and penalties done where applicable?

Damm good post, good to have Biggins back on song!

steve9859

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

steve9859 wrote: »

Christ.....we live in a democracy, right? And 'the people' vote in a particular government who then represent the people, including you. Hence 'the people' sanctioned berties, and various other TD's and councillor's (mostly, but not only FF, by the way) behavior (seeing as everyone knew about it). And are now moaning about it....

So now you are actually suggesting that people who voted against FF and Bertie were somehow endorsing him. Does it get any better?

As an individual you might not have done....as a nation we absolutely did.

Not sure I can make it any clearer than that

steddyeddy

Weathercheck wrote: »

What percentage of houseowners in Ireland are deemed to be in poverty?

Maybe 5-10%, being very generous there. So no reason for those not in poverty to fork out here 2 euro a week. So we should have a 90% take up.

You can pay in inststallments now?

rock chic

kryogen wrote: »

Makes you mad when peoples opinions differ from your own? Internet may not be for you love.

Also, personal abuse is never a good place to start when trying to take a moral high ground.

and were did i abuse you by calling ya a troll hardly personal abuse is it anyway not my fault ya cant see the woods from the trees

i57dwun4yb1pt8

Vanderbilt wrote: »

I genuinely don't feel that Bertie is compos mentis.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ffevexO7a2A

the arrogant fc.uking cocksucker

Doc Ruby

DaDumTish wrote: »

the arrogant fc.uking cocksucker

What I found interesting about that clip was at the end, he leaned on the car door and gazed serenely at the angry mob as if to say, not a one of you can touch me no matter what you do.

Right, superman, the book isn't closed yet.

steddyeddy

Are there any movements by the gaurda to investigate these allegations?

psychward

Wheres the legislation to deprive such people of their pensions and make them repay the backpayments and go directly to jail while their assets are confiscated by the CAB and assets they transferred to relatives confiscated too ?
Apologists might say it's impossible retrospectively but I don't think bondholders or the EU care at all about this issue so long as they are paid so no blackmail from anyone more powerful than us can stop us as a sovereign country from treating the corrupt with the respect they showed us.
Did individuals who can't account for the source of money pay capital gains or gift tax on it ? What about the money which according to the tribunal Bartholomew Ahern could not account for it's source? Why are taxpayers paying for a Garda driver and car when he can afford his own security and driver ? The least this government should do is introduce legislation yesterday to confiscate the pensions and Garda bodyguards of any and all politicians who engage in corruption going forward. It is highly suspicious that they have focused on nanny state shyte instead of these real important issues for the last few months. You don't see people in real danger like Padraig McNally with Garda bodyguards posted down to their farms in Mayo. Let Bart take care of himself.

Faolchu

his whole resignation stinks to me. I think FF should have called an emergency session to deal with his and others expulsion, instead they wait at least a week to meet thus giving the rats time to "resign for the sake of the party". i'd put money on it that there was never an intention to seek his expulsion, i'd say MM picked up the phone and was like "bertie me auld son, the ****s hitting the fan, now we can expel you from the party coz i said i was gonna take a heavy hand against shisters like yourself and save face from the publics point of view, but it'll take us at least a week wink wink to have a meeting about it, but if you resigned before we managed to actually have that meeting sure what can we do, go on lad take one for the team"

stinkle

forgive me if this is a stupid question, but how can it be justified that the likes of Bertie still has a Garda bodyguard? Especially when he might yet face more investigations if this is to be believed (though I for one won't be holding my breath):

(from the Irish Times): GARDA COMMISSIONER Martin Callinan has instructed the head of the Criminal Assets Bureau to take charge of investigations arising out of the planning tribunal’s report which identified widespread dishonesty and corruption in public life.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/frontpage/2012/0324/1224313824638.html

I know it's an entitlement for ex-Taoisigh etc, blah blah peace process, but how can the Gardaí involved be happy to escort that liar around everywhere. The Collins family have had to flee the country, yet we waste scant resources on protecting someone who ruined the country and doesn't seem to give a hoot. As another poster pointed out, he certainly has the cash to employ his own security if he feels he needs it.

ilovesleep

Correct me if I am wrong. I read in the garlic man thread that he is paying back what he owes yet he still gets 6 years in prison.

Mentioned in the same thread, there was a car dealer who didn't declare vat on cars or something. He is also paying back what he owes and he got 4 years prison.

Why is the law different for those at the top?

ilovesleep

psychward wrote: »

Wheres the legislation to deprive such people of their pensions and make them repay the backpayments and go directly to jail while their assets are confiscated by the CAB and assets they transferred to relatives confiscated too ?
Apologists might say it's impossible retrospectively but I don't think bondholders or the EU care at all about this issue so long as they are paid so no blackmail from anyone more powerful than us can stop us as a sovereign country from treating the corrupt with the respect they showed us.
Did individuals who can't account for the source of money pay capital gains or gift tax on it ? What about the money which according to the tribunal Bartholomew Ahern could not account for it's source? Why are taxpayers paying for a Garda driver and car when he can afford his own security and driver ? The least this government should do is introduce legislation yesterday to confiscate the pensions and Garda bodyguards of any and all politicians who engage in corruption going forward. It is highly suspicious that they have focused on nanny state shyte instead of these real important issues for the last few months. You don't see people in real danger like Padraig McNally with Garda bodyguards posted down to their farms in Mayo. Let Bart take care of himself.

I agree with this. Enda and co were in power for the past year and there was no progress or move on legislation for white collar crimes.

Do you know why this is? Enda and FG are also corrupt and it's only a matter of time before scandal comes out on Enda.

Biggins

Updated 12.10pm

FIANNA FÁIL HAS confirmed that Bertie Ahern has resigned from the party in a letter received this morning.
In a statement the party said: “Fianna Fáil has this morning received correspondence from former Leader Bertie Ahern confirming his resignation from the Party. The Party has also received confirmation that Councillor John Hannon has resigned his membership.

http://www.thejournal.ie/fianna-fail-we-havent-heard-from-bertie-yet-but-we-expect-to-396533-Mar2012/

Downlinz

Showing too much respect to the Mahon report, he's been convicted of zero wrong doing by law so it concerns me how much pandering him and the party are doing to the controversy driven tabloid and impressionable sheep.

We live in a country of innocent until proven guilty and this doesn't appear to be whats happening.

Faolchu

ilovesleep wrote: »

Correct me if I am wrong. I read in the garlic man thread that he is paying back what he owes yet he still gets 6 years in prison.

Mentioned in the same thread, there was a car dealer who didn't declare vat on cars or something. He is also paying back what he owes and he got 4 years prison.

Why is the law different for those at the top?

because it was proven in a court of law that they had in fact broken the law and as criminals they must face a penalty. as yet bertie et al have not been convicted of wrong doing and no criminal investigation has taken place unfortunately.

I suspect that should an investigation happen it will take a number of years (anglo anyone??), cost a small fortune and a he'll get a small if any sentence.

Ash.J.Williams

ilovesleep wrote: »

Correct me if I am wrong. I read in the garlic man thread that he is paying back what he owes yet he still gets 6 years in prison.

Mentioned in the same thread, there was a car dealer who didn't declare vat on cars or something. He is also paying back what he owes and he got 4 years prison.

Why is the law different for those at the top?

the difference is Garlic man was not very good at breaking the law, Bertie was a master at it.

Spread

He should not have been allowed to resign. He should have been fucked out ignominiously. Why did he tell such cock&bull lies unless he was trying to conceal something. And those retired high-flying cops should be made to answer questions ........ truthfully, if possible. But that's asking too much for a tin pot democracy. Is there not another brave journalist out there who is willing to ferret out the truth?

Pandora2

Fighting Irish

Spread wrote: »

He should not have been allowed to resign. He should have been fucked out ignominiously. Why did he tell such cock&bull lies unless he was trying to conceal something. And those retired high-flying cops should be made to answer questions ........ truthfully, if possible. But that's asking too much for a tin pot democracy. Is there not another brave journalist out there who is willing to ferret out the truth?

Who in their right mind would come clean and tell the truth in this case?

ilovesleep

Enda Kenny was very fast last summer to issue a speech to the vatican on abuse in catholic church.

I would now like to hear what he has to say about corruption within the politicial field in Ireland and what his future plans are surrounding this?

Does he hope to introduce legislation for zero tolerence on corruption?
If a politician is found to be corrupt what will be the penality for him/her?

Biggins

I see today that the creep was in Nigeria (yet again) over the last few days, giving another €30,000 speech to possible Nigerian Investors.
A trip (and money gathering exercise) that he makes regularly to the country.

Details: http://www.thejournal.ie/after-resignation-from-ff-ahern-is-keynote-speaker-at-nigerian-conference-397553-Mar2012/

BERTIE AHERN WAS in Nigeria giving the keynote speech at an investors’ forum as news of his resignation was confirmed by Fianna Fáil yesterday afternoon.
It has emerged that the former taoiseach was speaking to international investors in Ogun State in south-western Nigeria at a conference entitled ‘Ogun State: Open for Business’, a phrase used often by the current Taoiseach Enda Kenny

His membership of the Washington Speakers’ Bureau (WSB) sees Ahern earn at least €30,000 every time he makes a speech according to the WSB website which notes: ”Bertie Ahern brought peace and political prominence to Ireland, creating a progressive strategy and blueprint for other countries of the world to follow.”

Reportedly by the Indo some time back - he actually gets €40,000 a trip/speech!
Who needs €2,800 a week in state pensions... eh?

tayto lover

Biggins wrote: »

I see today that the creep was in Nigeria (yet again) over the last few days, giving another €30,000 speech to possible Nigerian Investors.
A trip (and money gathering exercise) that he makes regularly to the country.

Details: http://www.thejournal.ie/after-resignation-from-ff-ahern-is-keynote-speaker-at-nigerian-conference-397553-Mar2012/





Reportedly by the Indo some time back - he actually gets €40,000 a trip/speech!
Who needs €2,800 a week in state pensions... eh?

Yes Bertie is out milking the Nigerians and telling them how he sorted out this country and its problems. A real hero is our Bertie, the cnut.

Biggins

tayto lover wrote: »

Yes Bertie is out milking the Nigerians and telling them how he sorted out this country and its problems. A real hero is our Bertie, the cnut.

Indeed.
Cowan by the way, is in Washington doing a speech for around €30,000.