Bertie Ahern statement/resignation

benway

FF mouthpiece on Vincent Browne, "I'm appealing to the ordinary decent people of Fianna Fáil".

Oh no you din't.

On his site VB took this extract from the report:

Given the existence of such rampant public corruption, the obvious question is why it was allowed to continue unabated?

It continued because nobody was prepared to do enough to stop it. This is perhaps inevitable when corruption ceases to become an isolated event and becomes so entrenched that it is transformed into an acknowledged way of doing business.

Specifically, because corruption affected every level of Irish political life, those with the power to stop it were frequently implicated in it.

Moreover, the general apathy on the part of the public towards that corruption meant that there was insufficient pressure from the public to compel their representatives to take firm action to curtail or eliminate it.

Can we all agree on one thing? This ends now.

mrrepublic

Stinicker wrote: »

If you think I'm Sinn Fein your off your rocker, however SF have more credibility than Fianna Fail anyday. What have FF ever done for Ireland except Bankrupt it several times, allow Rome rule until the 1990's and steal billions whilst condemning millions of people and entire generations to the boat and plane to fling them to the far corners of the globe.

Fianna Fail have been a more destructive and negative force in Ireland than British Rule and if the boys of 1916 could have been brought forward and see what was done to our country and what was done with our "Independence" then they'd have decided not to bother I imagine. FF are a cancer on Irish society for far too long and they alongside the Catholic Church need to be eradicated rather quickly.

What a load of rubbish F.F. will return because the people of Ireland always turn to them to serve them best.

drdeadlift

mrrepublic wrote: »

What a load of rubbish F.F. will return because the people of Ireland always turn to them to serve them best.

are u ok?

tayto lover

goat2 wrote: »

i would like to see assets all assets taken from all those who took envelopes, then and only then will i pay the household charge, and by the looks of it, that looks like never, as there will be nothing taken from them and they will not see the inside of a jail

What ?? You mentioned the "E" word !!!
Remember what happened to the last lad who mentioned that word on t.v. ?

steddyeddy

benway wrote: »

FF mouthpiece on Vincent Browne, "I'm appealing to the ordinary decent people of Fianna Fáil".

Oh no you din't.

On his site VB took this extract from the report:



Can we all agree on one thing? This ends now.

Anything it takes to end it. It is deeply entrenched in Irish society and has been for years. We are all paying for this criminals pension while people in this country are trying to work hard to make ends meet. Sickening to say the least. Our education, health system and reputation will suffer for years to come because nothing was done to stop this. We will all suffer for years more unless something is done now.

Shatstand

NSFW

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BbxpKjHWITc

steddyeddy

Randy Anders wrote: »

It doesn't matter what people say or do, Bertie simply won't give a ****.

Bertie and his ilk are what we call sociopaths, he lacks a conscience and empathy and will continue to lie to himself and others to satisfty his personality disorder

I agree. I actually find it hard to look at the man but to be honest I would say he decided he could get away with it when he saw his boss haughey get away with it. Thats when he knew the Irish people would take it, lie down and do nothing.

ilovesleep

steddyeddy wrote: »

Anything it takes to end it. It is deeply entrenched in Irish society and has been for years. We are all paying for this criminals pension while people in this country are trying to work hard to make ends meet. Sickening to say the least. Our education, health system and reputation will suffer for years to come because nothing was done to stop this. We will all suffer for years more unless something is done now.

Far far too much people are willing to turn a blind eye with a sickening attitude - sure what can we do? Protesting will do nothing. It is us the irish people that allows this sh1t to continue. Look to any other country - spain, portugal, france and they would be protesting on their streets. Uk and greece would be rioting on their streets. We sit back and do nothing and allow it to continue.

Enda Kenny and FG are also deep in corruption if you ask me. Why weren't they holding FF to account? They are buried in corruption also.

RobbingBandit

What is the Irish for Maximilien François Marie Isidore de Robespierre.

RobbingBandit

Shatstand wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BbxpKjHWITc

Surely someone here knows someone who knows Berties mobile number, lets leave him a message.

benway

irish-stew wrote: »

these tribunials have no staning in court.

That's not 100% true. The finding can't ground a prosecution in itself, it'll still have to be framed in terms of a criminal charge, brought before a Court and the evidence presented again, with the higher standard of proof beyond reasonable doubt.

But it has about the same standing as a Garda investigation, it should set off at least 30 prosecutions from the bit that I've skimmed over in it, no guarantee they'll be found guilty, but for those who have been identified as engaging in corruption, there clearly are cases to answer.

cloptrop

6000 posts on people giving out about the government in one thread, one man finally organises a protest and people make jokes and disapear haha I love it here , the only people that are serious are just pretending to be serious to encourage jokes at their expense.

Stinicker

RobbingBandit wrote: »

Surely someone here knows someone who knows Berties mobile number, lets leave him a message.

He gets something like a ten grand a month telephone allowance so its probably engaged, theres a cracking bird on babestation so he's probably on the phone to her now laughing at the country!

Orando Broom

ilovesleep wrote: »

Far far too much people are willing to turn a blind eye with a sickening attitude - sure what can we do? Protesting will do nothing. It is us the irish people that allows this sh1t to continue. Look to any other country - spain, portugal, france and they would be protesting on their streets. Uk and greece would be rioting on their streets. We sit back and do nothing and allow it to continue.

Enda Kenny and FG are also deep in corruption if you ask me. Why weren't they holding FF to account? They are buried in corruption also.

How have Greece fared? Still over a barrel? Yes. Our problems will not be solved or address by people meandering around the streets with placards. There is no alternative Government that could come in and reform. FG were voted in with a Labour tack on for checks and balances. Both parties swept home on promises of reform and tackling cronyism, waste you name it.

What is different? Nothing same shïte different shades. So now what. Protest until the Government fall and elect what? A minority government of the lunatic fringe? Then what more protests until we reelect FF on the promise of them providing cheap credit for businesses and prospective home owners.

Protest is pointless because we don't know what we want. We all what these aspirational, amorphous ideals, no corruption, fairness, honesty? Who'll give them to us? The twenty year veterans of the current system? Name me one Irish man or woman who could lead a revolution in this country, who could sweep out the old guard of all colour and stripe and root and branch reform our dysfunctional political system. One name, that is all I ask.

benway

Still on VB, Charlie Flanagan reckons Bertie could be charged with lying under oath for one thing, as well as tax offences...

Shatstand

Orando Broom wrote: »

Name me one Irish man or woman who could lead a revolution in this country, who could sweep out the old guard of all colour and stripe and root and branch reform our dysfunctional political system. One name, that is all I ask.

Aidan Cooney.

steddyeddy

ilovesleep wrote: »

Far far too much people are willing to turn a blind eye with a sickening attitude - sure what can we do? Protesting will do nothing. It is us the irish people that allows this sh1t to continue. Look to any other country - spain, portugal, france and they would be protesting on their streets. Uk and greece would be rioting on their streets. We sit back and do nothing and allow it to continue.

Enda Kenny and FG are also deep in corruption if you ask me. Why weren't they holding FF to account? They are buried in corruption also.

You got that right. Some people in this country have been brainwashed to think we can do nothing about it. Thousands of people reported for social welfare fraud and this scumbag gets away with it. Unbelievable. A lot of the Irish would prefer to attack each other. Some enlightened man in another thread referred to me as craven because I have to leave the country to make a future for myself. No wonder people like bertie get away with sh1t like this.

Captain Darling

policarp wrote: »

A prick is a useful thing. . .

Good for riding people and pissing all over them. Bertie was quite adept at that.

steddyeddy

A friend of mine in america sent me the american view on things.

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-03-22/business/sns-ap-eu-ireland-secret-payments_1_secret-payments-prime-minister-bertie-ahern-corruption

Of particular interest is their disbelief at this:

Prime Minister Charles Haughey, who was found guilty by a previous tribunal of receiving more than €10 million ($13 million) in secret payments from many of Ireland's top businessmen while in office. Haughey faced no criminal charges

wexie

Orando Broom wrote: »

Name me one Irish man or woman who could lead a revolution in this country, who could sweep out the old guard of all colour and stripe and root and branch reform our dysfunctional political system. One name, that is all I ask.

Obama vows to return to 'magical' Ireland
Barack Obama given Irish ancestry certificate

I'm telling ya, it's a sign.....

Orando Broom

wexie wrote: »

Obama vows to return to 'magical' Ireland
Barack Obama given Irish ancestry certificate

I'm telling ya, it's a sign.....

His track record in change does not inspire hope.

ilovesleep

mrrepublic wrote: »

What a load of rubbish F.F. will return because the people of Ireland always turn to them to serve them best.

Do you know why this is?
Every time FF fcuk up people emerigrate and leave. These are the people that want and need change and reform. These people change things by emerigrating and leaving, taking their votes with them.
See how power hungry FF was? They never allowed those who newly emerigrated to have a vote on matters at home.
1950s emerigration, 1980s emerigration, and now the late 00s.

It was mentioned in the politics forum that corruption is going back decades to the 1960's and it's still alive and well in Ireland 2012.

Jack_Russell

http://irishecho.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/working-abraod-3856.jpg

Merch

steddyeddy wrote: »

A friend of mine in america sent me the american view on things.

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-03-22/business/sns-ap-eu-ireland-secret-payments_1_secret-payments-prime-minister-bertie-ahern-corruption

Of particular interest is their disbelief at this:

Jesus, they must think we are a bunch of backwards fluckwits, they are probably right, if I could get out I would.

steddyeddy

Merch wrote: »

Jesus, they must think we are a bunch of backwards fluckwits, they are probably right, if I could get out I would.

If we let this go on without something being done they would be right.

Jack_Russell

Merch wrote: »

Jesus, they must think we are a bunch of backwards fluckwits, they are probably right, if I could get out I would.

working-abraod-3856.jpg

Pdfile

next time i see him ima pimp slap him, with pics/video to follow shortly afterwards.

expectationlost

the guy was taoiseach for 11 years he won

John Doe1

Ahern is a prime example of why dublin should be given back to the vikings

PerlenBacher

Bertie is bad enough. But its the people who supported him and still do that make me sick.

Was watching the news earlier and it interviewed a few random members of the public. Most were telling it the way it is ... except one woman in perticular :rolleyes:

To quote, "Bertie wasnt all that bad, sure he did good things like the croke park thing" :rolleyes:

RobbingBandit

Orando Broom wrote: »

Name me one Irish man or woman who could lead a revolution in this country, who could sweep out the old guard of all colour and stripe and root and branch reform our dysfunctional political system. One name, that is all I ask.

Me, yes I am serious. Fcuk these basterds who are in power and opposition, elections do not work and neither does oligarchy as lets face it the same people running every few years or those they have inspired is not democracy. We need to overhaul the entire public system nothing should be allowed to remain as it is it does not work, if your family be that any member of it has served in any area of politics and fcuked up in any way you should be prohibited from doing so.

Jesus Wept

Awful_Bliss wrote: »

I bet Bertie doesn't give two f**ks about being expelled from Fianna Fail. He's on a fat pension and living off giving speeches to idiots who still believe he's a faultless man. He will give a f**k if he's thrown in jail and buggered by three big lads in the jacks. We all know this won't happen.

The current government think, however, that they can put thousands of people in court for not paying a 100euros household charge. They'll let this cockroach off the hook along with the likes of Sean Fitzpatrick et al.

Most of them know he is crooked, they just admire it.

John Doe1 wrote: »

Ahern is a prime example of why dublin should be given back to the vikings

Yea it's a Dublin thing alright. Crooked politician all over the country.

expectationlost

you could get him kicked off the council of state but you'd probably have to wait till he's prosecuted so....:/

gurramok

benway wrote: »

Still on VB, Charlie Flanagan reckons Bertie could be charged with lying under oath for one thing, as well as tax offences...

Ah yeh, will he get 6 years like the garlic man? Yeh right.:rolleyes:

KeithAFC

wexie wrote: »

Obama vows to return to 'magical' Ireland
Barack Obama given Irish ancestry certificate

I'm telling ya, it's a sign.....

Lets hope it is just the Republic.

cournioni

PerlenBacher wrote: »

Bertie is bad enough. But its the people who supported him and still do that make me sick.

Was watching the news earlier and it interviewed a few random members of the public. Most were telling it the way it is ... except one woman in perticular :rolleyes:

To quote, "Bertie wasnt all that bad, sure he did good things like the croke park thing" :rolleyes:

I'm convinced that the people who support him are buying into his whole "ah how are ya", smiley, "look at me aren't I friendly?!" act that he puts on. He's a abject little ****er, and I hope he gets what should be coming to him.

the groutch

I can't wait to dance on his grave, like that guy did with Haughey

Biggins

cournioni wrote: »

I'm convinced that the people who support him are buying into his whole "ah how are ya", smiley, "look at me aren't I friendly?!" act that he puts on...

Thats exactly how Haughty got elected - and Ahern was his underling (Minister of Finance - no less!).
The man learned well from his other previous crook!

...And think on this, the Mahon Tribunal only really dealed with a few financial dealings, within a very small couple of years.
So what might have been going on for some time before that and with how many other people, over years, decades...?
We will never know!
...Well unless Ahern is in a dock and maybe - maybe spills some secrets he's keeping. A dock where many maybe still in power, does not want to see him in!

Chairman Meow

Jack_Russell wrote: »

poor aul Bertie,

didn't he have a portrait of Padraig Pearse in his office?

and him a lover of the GAA as well, a modest pint drinker, a man of the paeple, an ordinary man, and a more devout Catholic you'll not witness.

didn't ye all vote fer him when we were booming?

and if we were still booming wouldn't ye still be voting 'n cheering fer him?

sure he transformed this place!

I never voted for FF or Bertie, ever. I always knew he was crooked as a dogs hind leg. He's a lying, cheating, underhanded scumbag of a human being who should be ashamed to show his ****ing face in public.
But hey it only cost a few hundred million Euro to prove what everyone already knew...that was money well spent.
The ****er should rot in jail.

ilovesleep

Biggins wrote: »

Thats exactly how Haughty got elected - and Ahern was his underling (Minister of Finance - no less!).
The man learned well from his other previous crook!

...And think on this, the Mahon Tribunal only really dealed with a few financial dealings, within a very small couple of years.
So what might have been going on for some time before that and with how many other people, over years, decades...?
We will never know!
...Well unless Ahern is in a dock and maybe - maybe spills some secrets he's keeping. A dock where many maybe still in power, does not want to see him in!

Pressure has to be put on this fcuk big time so he sings.

Did the tribunal find anything about his office - 200,000+ euro was spent renovating his office. That's the same amount as a mortgage and money went missing there but into who's pocket?

Biggins

ilovesleep wrote: »

Pressure has to be put on this fcuk big time so he sings.

Did the tribunal find anything about his office - 200,000+ euro was spent renovating his office. That's the same amount as a mortgage and money went missing there but into who's pocket?

The tribunal judges wanted to dig more into other areas but there was a rush to court by opposition, to force the judges to have more limited remit in what they could delve into.
The judges suspected there might be more, much more (and I suspect they were/are right) but if they wanted to go further and investigate more - that soon was shot down by heads in Dublin.
The obvious question arises - if heads in Dublin were innocent - what had they to fear?

toexpress

Digging further into things is really rather pointless. We all knew for quite some time what Bertie Ahern and many of his friends and colleagues were. We didn't need a 15 year tribunal and millions of Euro spent to tell us that. It simply, in the most expensive way possible, confirmed what anyone with a brain in their head already knew.

If we spend more money digging it will still be an exercise in futility because even if they find him corrupt and charges are brought before a court of law Bertie will delay for years and years and if it did actually get a hearing date he would never see the inside of a prison cell.

I hate to break this to the nation but the time served for any of these has been done. It was Frank Dunlop and he certainly didn't serve his time with dignity and respect for the Irish people.

As frustrating as it is I suggest we all suck it up and move on. Nothing more will ever happen

ilovesleep

toexpress wrote: »

Digging further into things is really rather pointless. We all knew for quite some time what Bertie Ahern and many of his friends and colleagues were. We didn't need a 15 year tribunal and millions of Euro spent to tell us that. It simply, in the most expensive way possible, confirmed what anyone with a brain in their head already knew.

You're missing the point. FG could be very well deep rooted in corruption and this is the party that we elected last year to care for this country and in reality they are just covering their own asses.

crusher000

To think the men of 1916 laid down their lives to get this countries Independance for the likes Bertie and the majority of our politicians could line their own pockets and break our nation. Do our politicians say an Oath on election to the Dail? If so any politician found not only to be corrupt but incompetent should be charged in bringing the security of this State into jeopardy. I have said it before not on these forums and will say it again our politicans do not represent the majority of the citizens of this country whom are working class and until that day comes it will be always about them making more money and keeping the rest of us down. We need greater represntation for the working and poor classes (don't like using these terms but what's the alternatives) to truly reflect the demographic make up of Irelands population.

dark crystal

One thing I'm still not clear about - if Bertie is expelled from the FF party, will he still be entitled to his pension...

Faolchu

so here's a question, am i right in thinking that the CAB or what ever can confiscate the proceeds of crime? if so and hypothetically its proven that he did take a back hander. the back hander would be a proceed of a hypothetical crime as fraud is a crime. so CAB can seize the funds of the alleged crime.

take this hypothetical situation on step further. he hypothetically does many a favor for his mates and in return gets a few extra ticks on the ballot paper as well as the occasional dig out or tip on the horses etc. now the alleged fraud that has taken place has resulted in his election to government should his ministers pay & benefits including pension then not be considered the proceeds of crime and thus seized by the CAB?

probably never happen but its a nice pipe dream

Biggins

toexpress wrote: »

Digging further into things is really rather pointless. We all knew for quite some time what Bertie Ahern and many of his friends and colleagues were. We didn't need a 15 year tribunal and millions of Euro spent to tell us that. It simply, in the most expensive way possible, confirmed what anyone with a brain in their head already knew.

If we spend more money digging it will still be an exercise in futility because even if they find him corrupt and charges are brought before a court of law Bertie will delay for years and years and if it did actually get a hearing date he would never see the inside of a prison cell.

I hate to break this to the nation but the time served for any of these has been done. It was Frank Dunlop and he certainly didn't serve his time with dignity and respect for the Irish people.

As frustrating as it is I suggest we all suck it up and move on. Nothing more will ever happen

Digging further is never fully pointless - it clearly shows alone, that such bad behaviour will not go un-investigated or that crooks might further escape from having to answer for their actions.

There IS the argument that the country cannot afford another Tribunal - this is true.
A question arises though, as to how common criminals, drug barons, banks and related people can be investigated by the likes of the CAB, the Gardi, etc and their investigation processes, over a shorter period of time and why can't those same abilities/skills be applied to our current lot under suspicion within and now retired from the Dail?

If we are just seen to say "We can't investigate, the matter is too big and too costly" - that alone acts as a further incentive to others thinking of doing similar or already involved in similar activities, that they can continue on their illegal path so that their antics get so big and large that we would be put off by the scale of their accumulation of crimes!

To do nothing at all - is a sheer single incentive for crooks to continue.
A compromise, a further better way of investigation beyond 'tribunals' must be found and used.

Faolchu

dark crystal wrote: »

One thing I'm still not clear about - if Bertie is expelled from the FF party, will he still be entitled to his pension...

its a ministers pension and as he served as a minister then i would think he would be entitled to it regardless of being a party member or not because its related to his time in government ad not his time as a party member, i mean indos etc get ministers pensions if they hold ministerial positions.

Biggins

dark crystal wrote: »

One thing I'm still not clear about - if Bertie is expelled from the FF party, will he still be entitled to his pension...

Absolutely - all of them.

He was elected to the Dail - from which the pensions come.

ilovesleep

crusher000 wrote: »

To think the men of 1916 laid down their lives to get this countries Independance for the likes Bertie and the majority of our politicians could line their own pockets and break our nation. Do our politicians say an Oath on election to the Dail? If so any politician found not only to be corrupt but incompetent should be charged in bringing the security of this State into jeopardy. I have said it before not on these forums and will say it again our politicans do not represent the majority of the citizens of this country whom are working class and until that day comes it will be always about them making more money and keeping the rest of us down. We need greater represntation for the working and poor classes (don't like using these terms but what's the alternatives) to truly reflect the demographic make up of Irelands population.

I'm almost in tears at the thought of it. The people of 1916 fought and died to free us from the english rule and for our independence just to have our very own screw us over.