Bertie Ahern statement/resignation

DEFTLEFTHAND

Oh we're so Pretty oh so Pretty, fill in the gap......

Doc Ruby

jased10s wrote: »

Also how many solicitors got minted off this so called inquiry ?

If there were 300 solicitors involved, which I doubt, they made a million apiece. Write the laws then get the taxpayers to pay off the legal profession to ignore the hypocrisy, good man Bertie.

kryogen

The King of Moo wrote: »

Eh... I know.

I'm saying that he didn't strictly say they should kill themselves, just that he doesn't understand how they don't.

It's still a despicable and stupid thing to say, but I think kryogen is arguing that that distinction is important, and that despite the remark and all evidence to the contrary, Bertie is "a nice chap."

Didnt I say it was a stupid remark?

What I find funny here in the centre of morality is how I appear to be the only one capable of not holding an extreme view of the situation.

Thought with the great logic on display here that people would be able to debate rationally, to converse without trying to be smart arses and score points to get a few thanks' added to their account?

Ah no wait, this is AH!

Still though, internet is serious business

Doc Ruby

kryogen wrote: »

Em, when did I claim Bertie recommended suicide to someone?

Did I not in fact totally refute that claim?

He never told anybody to commit suicide!

Edit- Ah I see you said, anybody, well I can save you some time, you will not be able to find any clip or statement anywhere that has Bertie recommending suicide to someone.

So him apologising for telling people to commit suicide was a figment of our collective imagination was it?

http://www.rte.ie/news/2007/0704/economy.html

I sincerely hope you're just trolling and get banned for it, because there's no hope for you otherwise.

kryogen

Doc Ruby wrote: »

If there were 300 solicitors involved, which I doubt, they made a million apiece. Write the laws then get the taxpayers to pay off the legal profession to ignore the hypocrisy, good man Bertie.

Bertie ordered this Tribunal! Jesus Christ! I never knew that! Why did he want them to investigate himself then? Seems an odd choice.

Also, the Tribunal has found plenty of evidence on many others yet Ahern is being singled out though they were unable to actually show that he did take corrupt payments, its all quite hilarious! Should a small bit of anger be directed to the lesser names in the case?

Was the Tribunal not set up to investigate something a little bit more then Bertie Ahern?

The pensions, Reynolds gets his pension, has done for 18 years now hasnt he? roughly 150k a year too? is that not a disgrace? why is that not causing such outrage?

did shady politics begin and end with Ahern?

People in general are very very stupid.

The King of Moo

kryogen wrote: »

Didnt I say it was a stupid remark?

What I find funny here in the centre of morality is how I appear to be the only one capable of not holding an extreme view of the situation.

Thought with the great logic on display here that people would be able to debate rationally, to converse without trying to be smart arses and score points to get a few thanks' added to their account?

Ah no wait, this is AH!

Still though, internet is serious business

You said earlier that Bertie is a nice chap. You even thanked him.

I don't think anyone is necessarily being irrational or thanks-seeking to express shock at such statements, given Ahern's weaselly nature and the complete disrespect he's shown for the law, the integrity of the office of Taoiseach, and the people of this country.

Just given his statements in the last few days, I don't see how even his most die-hard supporters would want to praise him.

Doc Ruby

kryogen wrote: »

Bertie ordered this Tribunal! Jesus Christ! I never knew that! Why did he want them to investigate himself then? Seems an odd choice.

Also, the Tribunal has found plenty of evidence on many others yet Ahern is being singled out though they were unable to actually show that he did take corrupt payments, its all quite hilarious! Should a small bit of anger be directed to the lesser names in the case?

Was the Tribunal not set up to investigate something a little bit more then Bertie Ahern?

The pensions, Reynolds gets his pension, has done for 18 years now hasnt he? roughly 150k a year too? is that not a disgrace? why is that not causing such outrage?

did shady politics begin and end with Ahern?

People in general are very very stupid.

You're starting to irritate me laddie.

kryogen

Doc Ruby wrote: »

So him apologising for telling people to commit suicide was a figment of our collective imagination was it?

http://www.rte.ie/news/2007/0704/economy.html

I sincerely hope you're just trolling and get banned for it, because there's no hope for you otherwise.

Didnt tell people to commit suicide, this is basic comprehension stuff.

If you bothered to read my posts you would see that I have already mentioned the comment, the stupidity of it, and the apology that followed, but hey, this post may get you a few thanks eh?

you have a problem with my posts report them, apologies for not conforming to what you believe to be right.

kryogen

The King of Moo wrote: »

You said earlier that Bertie is a nice chap. You even thanked him.

I don't think anyone is necessarily being irrational or thanks-seeking to express shock at such statements, given Ahern's weaselly nature and the complete disrespect he's shown for the law, the integrity of the office of Taoiseach, and the people of this country.

Just given his statements in the last few days, I don't see how even his most die-hard supporters would want to praise him.

Theres the rub, I'm not actually a Bertie supporter, or a FF supporter, have never voted FF in my life and dont see myself doing so in the near future.

I am giving my opinion, because of that I am being attacked.

I have no problem with anyone thinking Bertie is a corrupt weasel, none whatsoever, I have never said he is squeeky clean.

Id say Ill leave ye to it tbh, film starting that I want to watch and there really is no point in this.


Edit: your selective paraphrasing of me is just stupid, why did I thank him?

You stating simply that I even thanked him implies more then it should, I thanked him for his work in the North. That was it.

Like arguing with 4 year olds.

ilovesleep

kryogen wrote: »

Which advice?

He made an off the cuff remark regarding people who are constant doomsday sayers, he also apologized, he did not tell them to commit suicide did he? he did not advocate it or say it was the right thing to do.

He questioned how people who see the world so negatively go on living, stupid yes, the point he was trying to make is clear however, and there is a slight difference in advocating killing someone and making a brash statement rejecting some analysts ideas.

The analysts in question were correct, the statements they made were widely available publicly, more so due to his stupid remark, why didnt people heed the advice given?

You wrote previously that Bertie didn't recommend suicide:

kryogen wrote: »

Ah see now your just making stuff up, no politician would ever advocate people killing themselves, poor show.

Now you are acknowledging he did say to commit suicide.

He issued that to an econmist known as Morgan Kelly. Morgan Kelly did some research and discovered that we were going through a property boom similiar to what Finland had in the early 90s. Eventually with such a boom things go downhill within an economy. I believe this was back in 2006. Berties response to this advice to cool the economy and put a lid on property buying was suicide.

If Bertie was truly sorry for uttering such words he would have/should have introduced measures to cool the property buying and ring fence the spending. Instead for example in budget dec 06 dole was increased. There was nothing done with the help that help that Morgan Kelly tried to provide.

kryogen

Doc Ruby wrote: »

You're starting to irritate me laddie.

So?

kryogen

ilovesleep wrote: »

You wrote previously that Bertie didn't recommend suicide:


Now you are acknowledging he did say to commit suicide.

He issued that to an econmist known as Morgan Kelly. Morgan Kelly did some research and discovered that we were going through a property boom similiar to what Finland had in the early 90s. Eventually with such a boom things go downhill within an economy. I believe this was back in 2006. Berties response to this advice to cool the economy and put a lid on property buying was suicide.

If Bertie was truly sorry for uttering such words he would have/should have introduced measures to cool the property buying and ring fence the spending. Instead for example in budget dec 06 dole was increased. There was nothing done with the help that help that Morgan Kelly tried to provide.

Sweet mother of jesus, I am definitely out of here.

No I did not acknowledge what you are claiming, just no.

Good luck to you now.

Doc Ruby

kryogen wrote: »

Didnt tell people to commit suicide, this is basic comprehension stuff.

Basic comprehension, alright so lets talk about basic comprehension for a while. This means the understanding of very simple things, that only a complete simpleton would be unable to understand.

Now while there is no doubt that you're a person of tremendous intelligence and discretion, with a high level of skill at piercing complex layers of meaning with a single glance, and in no way a simpleton, it takes a bit of work to misinterpret what Bertie Ahern said when he commented that he didn't know why people didn't commit suicide.

Indeed it takes a fairly special level of interpretation to see that any other way, especially after he admitted publicly that he was wrong to make that comment.

I note you have a football personage in your sig there, and I also note that Bertie was an ardent fan of football, wasting over a hundred million euros of taxpayer money that could have paid for a hospital on his Bertie bowl that was never built.

Now while a thoroughgoing moron would put a football obsession over a hospital, there is no question in my mind for one that you could ever be described as such an individual, all things considered.

I respect your opinions and that they are as valid as the next man's.

kryogen wrote: »

you have a problem with my posts report them, apologies for not conforming to what you believe to be right.

Apology accepted and posts reported.

ilovesleep

kryogen wrote: »

Em, when did I claim Bertie recommended suicide to someone?

Did I not in fact totally refute that claim?

He never told anybody to commit suicide!

Edit- Ah I see you said, anybody, well I can save you some time, you will not be able to find any clip or statement anywhere that has Bertie recommending suicide to someone.

Here we go:
http://m.youtube.com//v=hfjGSfuSQpA

KeithM89_old

Mod

Anymore flaming/baiting and youre gone.
You know who you are.

The King of Moo

kryogen wrote: »

Theres the rub, I'm not actually a Bertie supporter, or a FF supporter, have never voted FF in my life and dont see myself doing so in the near future.

I am giving my opinion, because of that I am being attacked.

I have no problem with anyone thinking Bertie is a corrupt weasel, none whatsoever, I have never said he is squeeky clean.

Id say Ill leave ye to it tbh, film starting that I want to watch and there really is no point in this.


Edit: your selective paraphrasing of me is just stupid, why did I thank him?

You stating simply that I even thanked him implies more then it should, I thanked him for his work in the North. That was it.

Like arguing with 4 year olds.

There's a time and place for everything. Why thank him now, when there's so much justified anger against him, in a thread dealing with his corruption, and not his (exaggerated) work in the North?
Mention it a few years down the line, but to do so now just seems like trolling, even if that's not your intention.

I won't even bother with your remarks about stupidity.

cloptrop

If anyone thinks somebody would study to get a degree spend their life making connections in the political world then be a td for the good of the people they are pooping out their cake vessels. The people you think would do this and be honest dont exist. Id say every td out there is on the take in some shape or form , if he wasnt nobody in the elite would trust him therefore he wouldnt get in power.
THE PARTY PICK THE LEADERS

Biggins

hondasam wrote: »

It's typical of Bertie to jump before he is pushed. I know the pension is a small thing but I don't think he should still get it. I agree there are plenty more like him in FF and FG.

He's making a habit of jumping isn't he?
Jumping from government, jumping from closets, jumping from a party?
I wish he would just go jump off the end of a pier and save us a state funeral cost!

AvarusAnimus

Miserable scumbag...

i57dwun4yb1pt8

id give me savings to see a picture of this fat turd and p flynn
hanging from lamposts by the neck , being eaten by crows

... hey but thats just me

Spread

After Celia's evasive answers ......... how come she's been given a job by a newspaper. Should the CAB look into her (aunts) house ........... ill gotten gains etc. As for the Bertie ........... is perjury not a jailable offence?

Awful_Bliss

I will personally go berserk if nothing happens to this punk. I've been raging since he made that comment about suicide, his invincible attitude and his sly, slick and sliminess. And I will never vote again if none of the present administration sent this c*nt to some sort of fiery hell.

Fifteen years pass by and the worst that's happened is that he's (almost) forced to leave a party. That's like me leaving a tiddlywinks club only to go back to my home where I have a nice pension. Soooooo sick of this crap!!!

Wild Bill

Interesting to see history repeating itself as we speak! :rolleyes:

Bertie responded to Morgan Kelly by advocating folk opposed to Government policy or concerned about loo-la economics should commit suicide.

Six years later, after Kelly and other are totally vindicated, their equally obvious and accurate assessment of the bail-out scam (aka FF policy being implemented by the FG/Lab Regime) is equally dismissively, if not so colourfully, rubbished.

And we have people quoting the 49% Government approval in new poll as vindication of their myopia! Many of these clowns have to be the very same people who supported Bertie in 2006 :pac:

Now they are whining "we didn't know/nobody told us" about the looming catastrophe (and - reality check - that is the REAL issue here; without the crash, FF would still be in power and Moriarty consigned to crank's corner - and nobody bar the die-hard anti-FF element would give a twaddle).

When the bail-out scam implodes in misery and tears (as it most assuredly will) we'll get the same drones once again claiming theydidn't realize/weren't warned!

And when the current Regime is exposed for the duplicitous sleazeballs they clearly are we can have an Enda hatefest - just like the current Bertie one!:pac:

Not that I'm not feeling a certain Schadenfreude at plight of Bertie-th-B***** :cool:

Jesus Wept

kryogen wrote: »

Em, when did I claim Bertie recommended suicide to someone?

Did I not in fact totally refute that claim?

He never told anybody to commit suicide!

Edit- Ah I see you said, anybody, well I can save you some time, you will not be able to find any clip or statement anywhere that has Bertie recommending suicide to someone.

Close enough. Complete scum, I don't know how he doesn't commit suicide.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hfjGSfuSQpA

UglyBolloxFace

Spread wrote: »

After Celia's evasive answers ......... how come she's been given a job by a newspaper. Should the CAB look into her (aunts) house ........... ill gotten gains etc. As for the Bertie ........... is perjury not a jailable offence?

Yes it is, but you have to remember that the Mahon Tribunal was not a court of law, so therefore, despite that fact that the little **** lied through his teeth, he did not commit perjury.

What a complete waste of money, seeing as it has no power whatsoever. Why couldn't they have just initiated Garda investigation/court proceedings on the suspicion of him committing corruption?

Dirty miserable old fat bastard.

AJ1

The Mahon Tribunal is a dog without teeth - €300 million euro later and what do you think was the fallout? Bertie is squeezed out of FF, in other words, Nothing! You know it, I know it and you can be damn sure Bertie knows it, otherwise he'd have an army of barristers representing his defamation claim :mad:

bensweeney

psychward

AJ1 wrote: »

The Mahon Tribunal is a dog without teeth - €300 million euro later and what do you think was the fallout? Bertie is squeezed out of FF, in other words, Nothing!

The slimy shyster will probably leave FF first before they can expel him and from then on in Berties ego-maniacal mind nobody will be able to say he was expelled.

Kind of like how Haughey ''agreed'' to ''accompany'' the Gardai (who came to arrest him) to the local station for questioning instead of being arrested as he should have been.

Pandora2

hondasam wrote: »

I wonder if they can take his pension of him. He should not get away with everything and I don't think he will.

He has only resigned from the Party, he still remains a retired member of Dail Eireann, this will have no effect on his pension !!:rolleyes: No real loss to him at all!!

AudreyHepburn

I don't understand the sudden shock and outrage......we've all known for years what Bertie and FF are really about.

Lets not act as though the Mahon report is telling us anyting new.

Vanderbilt

I genuinely don't feel that Bertie is compos mentis.

There is something massively strange in how he hasn't shown an ounce of remorse for any of his failures or actions.

Everything he does seems to be schemed or some form of scam.

Would love to shake the hand of the person in the clip below:

"You're working for Ireland Judges, its important we get the Truth"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ffevexO7a2A

Pandora2

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

I don't understand the sudden shock and outrage......we've all known for years what Bertie and FF are really about.

Lets not act as though the Mahon report is telling us anyting new.

No, it is certainly not breaking news for most of us but, we have been told ad nauseum down through the Years, that we must wait for the full outcome of the Report, by Bertie and a great number of Serving FF/PD & Green Ministers & TD's (whilst, of course, they frustrated the process!)that an expectation of some sort of meaningful action was created and for what its worth, Bertie has now taken action!!:rolleyes:

Toby Take a Bow

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

I don't understand the sudden shock and outrage......we've all known for years what Bertie and FF are really about.

Lets not act as though the Mahon report is telling us anyting new.

There were a good 500,000 (?) people who voted for them in the last election, and double that in the one before. I guess they're all just keeping quiet at the moment. I really, really hope that we see a significant (and I mean significant) drop in support in opinion polls released in the next couple of weeks. It may restore some sort of hope in the voting public.

sunflower27

Vanderbilt wrote: »

I genuinely don't feel that Bertie is compos mentis.

There is something massively strange in how he hasn't shown an ounce of remorse for any of his failures or actions.

Everything he does seems to be schemed or some form of scam.

Would love to shake the hand of the person in the clip below:

"You're working for Ireland Judges, its important we get the Truth"

He is just playing hard ball now in the hope it all dies down. No way will he admit anything, I wouldn't expect him to.

Enjoyed that clip though. Thanks for posting it I love the way he leans on the car door in a 'you don't scare me' way. Notice he doesn't linger there long though

Good thing his was the first car parked.... what a coincidence

bensweeney

Did anyone see this about Bertie Ahern not paying the household charge?

http://www.politics.ie/forum/current-affairs/184835-bertie-ahern-says-he-not-paying-household-charge.html

BackScrub

Nothing much will change as long as there's a shower of eejits in this country happily registering to pay the household charge. We deserve what we get.

ninebeanrows

BackScrub wrote: »

Nothing much will change as long as there's a shower of eejits in this country happily registering to pay the household charge. We deserve what we get.

I don't get the link between Bertie and normal people paying the household charge?

Sure why don't we all just stop paying taxes and charges?

Sure , we'd be a fine little nation then.

Some people are really clueless.

Vanderbilt

BackScrub wrote: »

Nothing much will change as long as there's a shower of eejits in this country happily registering to pay the household charge. We deserve what we get.

So in essence you're suggesting that is better to create a tax base from unsustainable sources such as stamp duty. That worked out really well didn't it.

Bertienomics at its finest.

And if true, its hardly surprising that Bert has decided he wont pay the charge - man of de people and all that. Always take the easy road Bert - lowest common denominator.

KKkitty

Bertie is bringing out a book. It's called P.S. I owe you

lividduck

KKkitty wrote: »

Bertie is bringing out a book. It's called P.S. I owe you

Actually its called PS I ****ed you over big time and got away it!

ilovesleep

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

I don't understand the sudden shock and outrage......we've all known for years what Bertie and FF are really about.

Lets not act as though the Mahon report is telling us anyting new.

For me, all this highlights something very big in society. Discrimination! With all this and the ruins of the economy, classes in society has been created - lower class, middle class and higher class with some of that higher class corrupted and hungry for power and what what that power will buy them. It is the lower, middle and some of the higher class that is funding this corruption and greed like paupers. It is us that have to abide by the laws that they create whereas laws don't apply to them.

Some examples:
Oap's chased by revunue.
6 years prison for a man that labeled apples on a box of garlic to avoid paying tax.
4 years for a car dealer who didn't declare VAT.
A man in galway charged for stealing a tip jar.

Whereas politicians with dodgy expenses are protected with a tribunal and rewarded with massive pensions, paid for by us paupers. One of these politicians had a duty to care for this country and he ran it into the ground by ignoring warnings and creating an over bloated economy and his sidekicks Cowen and Lenihan tied tighter nooses around our necks.

Today we have FG in power and they don't have much of an appetite to change things.

sunflower27

ilovesleep wrote: »

For me, all this highlights something very big in society. Discrimination! With all this and the ruins of the economy, classes in society has been created - lower class, middle class and higher class with some of that higher class corrupted and hungry for power and what what that power will buy them. It is the lower, middle and some of the higher class that is funding this corruption and greed like paupers. It is us that have to abide by the laws that they create whereas laws don't apply to them.

Some examples:
Oap's chased by revunue.
6 years prison for a man that labeled apples on a box of garlic to avoid paying tax.
4 years for a car dealer who didn't declare VAT.
A man in galway charged for stealing a tip jar.

Whereas politicians with dodgy expenses are protected with a tribunal and rewarded with massive pensions, paid for by us paupers. One of these politicians had a duty to care for this country and he ran it into the ground by ignoring warnings and creating an over bloated economy and his sidekicks Cowen and Lenihan tied tighter nooses around our necks.

yes, it is obvious the politicians are protected - it is why they can be as deceitful to the degree they are.

Until they too are accountable for their blatant dishonesty, nothing will ever change.

There is us - and then there is 'them'.

AngryBollix

KKkitty wrote: »

Bertie is bringing out a book. It's called P.S. I owe you

Or ps I banged the nations arse for 30 years and still managed to secure 3 terms as Taoiseach

Bullseye1

Weathercheck wrote: »

I don't get the link between Bertie and normal people paying the household charge?

Sure why don't we all just stop paying taxes and charges?

Sure , we'd be a fine little nation then.

Some people are really clueless.

We could also look at having more efficent government. Some people are clueless throwing good money after bad.

AngryBollix

The irish electorate have a lot to answer for.

As it is foolish to let FF forget what they've done, it is equally foolish the let FF voters forget what they've done.

To make matters worse we still have FF apologists standing up for the likes of Bertie Ahern which is sickening

Bullseye1

His resignation has taken is expulsion out of the equation. If he cared for his party he should have done it a long time ago.

steddyeddy

Weathercheck wrote: »

I don't get the link between Bertie and normal people paying the household charge?

Sure why don't we all just stop paying taxes and charges?

Sure , we'd be a fine little nation then.

Some people are really clueless.

Heres the link: The household taxs goes towards local councils. Local councillers in some cases are massivley corrupt. Our ex prime minister was massivley corrupt. This comes after another ex prime minister took ten million in untaxed donations. None of those people went to jail or will go to jail.

Now I really work hard. A country that doesnt prosecute people who break the law, wastes any taxes and in the process cant account for money spent (county councils) and is corrupt to a level that makes some africans countries jealous doesnt deserve my taxes. It really doesnt. Im better than that. My taxes should go to better ran countries than that. So theres the link bertie pays no taxes on massive donations recieves no fines or jail time and we are all expected to pay a 100 euro each.

AngryBollix

Given that Bertie Ahern has brass stones I was half expecting him to tough this one out for some reason. It would have been brilliant to have watched michael martin being forced to stay true to his word

steddyeddy

Weathercheck wrote: »

I don't get the link between Bertie and normal people paying the household charge?

Sure why don't we all just stop paying taxes and charges?

Sure , we'd be a fine little nation then.

Some people are really clueless.

By the way are people in poverty who cant pay the tax clueless?

ilovesleep

AngryBollix wrote: »

The irish electorate have a lot to answer for.

As it is foolish to let FF forget what they've done, it is equally foolish the let FF voters forget what they've done.

To make matters worse we still have FF apologists standing up for the likes of Bertie Ahern which is sickening

Did you watch the youtube clip above of Bertie telling people to commit suicide. His supporters howling laughing and appaudling him. Sickening