Government sending their goons door to door!

Tomk1

dlofnep wrote: »

I'll invite them in for a cup of tea, and hold them up half an hour so they can't bug anyone else.

As they're about to leave, you could ask for a contribution, as water ain't free & neither is standing under the roof of your house.

If the gov was smart they could as the jehovahs to go door to door for free.

the purple tin

tigger123 wrote: »

Think this story is a bit of a red herring tbh, are they suggesting that office staff are redeployed knocking on doors and shaking a bucket? Can't see it happening.

Sounds like bluff and bluster to me too. Old Hogey is trying to scare people into paying before his imaginary Bond villains come calling.

JoeGil

wexie wrote: »

So hang on, you've got private citizens cleaning the streets and a private company collecting the bins? What services then are you waffling about?

The irish water infrastructure is horrible outdated and really poorly maintained, the roads are in an absolute state (unless you're travelling to or from Dublin).

It's been mentioned before, if the local councils start getting their budgetting in order and introduce some savings and efficiencies (like finding staff that will work more than 5 hours a day) maybe then I'll start considering funding some of these non existent services by means other than income tax, USC, roadtax etc.

Untill then I petty the poor council worker who has the nerve to come round here and I just pray I'll manage to contain my rage when I'm showing him the driveway wearing my steeltoe boots

The services I am referring to are the ones provided by the county council. These include maintenance of roads, footpaths, green areas, lighting etc.

Vizzy

Wibbs wrote: »

The council can fcuk right off pulling this intimidation bullshít.
The council are not pulling any intimidation bull****(if it happens,and I don't believe that it will,it will be on instruction from big Phil)

*A mates brother was on the accountancy/book keeping team for a large Dublin council that shall remain nameless and you would not believe some of it. No I'm serious, you really wouldn't.
Ah the old mates brother routine.
My sisters cousins,brother in laws,brothers wife was doing the same thing and saw no waste at all.

.

JoeGil

fishy fishy wrote: »

I'm assuming from your post that you don't pay tax.

I do but I also know that the country is increasing it's debt burden by at least € 15 billion in 2012 to keep going. This represents about € 8k per household in the country so € 100 is a very small contribution to reduce this borrowing.

twinQuins

Guys, there's little point getting mad at these people just doing their job.

I've worked as a civil servant and it's a job I'd recommend no one ever take. Unless you like being screamed at, threatened and generally insulted for things you're not responsible for, that is.
Getting angry with the people who have no control over these things (most often those on the absolute lowest rung in terms of power) will just piss them off too. At you.

Ghost Buster

Oh goodie. I'll have 100 times more questions for them to answer than they will have to ask me.
How much money could be saved if our politicians pay was brought into line with those for the rest of the world.
How much money could be saved if the Govt pay caps for bankers , executives etc were actually enforced and lowered to those of other countries.
Why does the tiny county i live in need 3 mayors? (Town, County and one for as ****inng village..i kid you not)
Seeing as my wages have gone down for many reasons including The Universal Social Charge and everything else has gone up. i cannot afford to pay for street lighting i dont have, sewage i dont have and for bins, fire services etc which i have to pay for on the double . What do i do?
Then i order them off the property my bank owns.

bonzos

As things stand council staff will hardly answer the phones...does anyone think that these people who are protected by croke park are will go door to door?not a hope!

krudler

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HKSnRkARktk

Show Time

Weathercheck wrote: »

I think it is hilarious that so many of you are highly strung about this relatively small fee for house owners when the vast majority of you don't own a house!

Home owner the last several years old chap and the small fee this year is a lead in to a much larger fee down the road for this bankers bailout. So no i won't pay.

sunflower27

Oh for God's sake.... this is utterly laughable.

it's like some really sh*t sitcom

hondasam

We have to register our details in order to pay, it would take them forever to check who has paid etc. They are just tying to scare people into paying. I don't care who calls I will tell them I have paid unless they have proof I haven't paid.

Show Time

bbam wrote: »

In fairness these guys are not to blame and are being sent out, just doing their jobs. If they are sent out to knock on doors they can't really refuse.
Abusing them over the tax is just showing your ignorance of how the system works. Your frustration should be directed towards government rather than a low level council worker who has no control over it and is just being sent out to do their jobs. Most probably won't want to be out getting crap shouted at them but have no choice.

Where did i say anything about abusing them??
I will have a list of questions which i would hope that can be answered in a clear and concise manner by the government underlings regarding the new bank bailout tax and if i am not happy with the answers i will be more then happy to let them go about their business once i inform them that i won't be paying.

So sorry to say but it is you who is showing their ignorance as you jumped the gun on my post.;)

MagicSean

Lovin the keyboard warrior stuff. So pathetic.

Fighting Irish

If anyone comes near my door, i'll kill them without hesitation!!!1

bmarley

While I don't agree with the property tax and will not be paying myself, I cannot understand why it does not also apply to council tenants..surely these use the same public facilities such as libraries, parks, fire service. It is the same people who are asked to pay everything. I have already paid this tax in the form of stamp duty and I will not be paying any more. So how much is it going to cost to send out people door to door..another waste of money!

MagicSean

hondasam wrote: »

We have to register our details in order to pay, it would take them forever to check who has paid etc. They are just tying to scare people into paying. I don't care who calls I will tell them I have paid unless they have proof I haven't paid.

It wont take long. I reckon it will be done on an estate basis at first. Go through the local estates and see what numbers haven't paid then check the land registry for the owners name. Once the estates are done they'll probably move on to the register of electors for the more rural homes. It's a simple process really.

As to court proceedings, I don't know if you've ever been in court for council cases involving parking fines or litter. They can do a dozen cases in half an hour. This will be no different. The charge will be failing to register and they will probably have a copy of the register and a copy of the land registry as evidence. Not much of a defence can be put against that. The case would probably last a minute at best.

snickerpuss

Just tell them you're renting. Problem solved. I doubt they have any accurate info about who owns the house or whether it's being rented.

ilovesleep

Just like tv licence inspectors but instead household charge tax inspectors.

Remember folks do not give your name to anyone that comes knocking at your door asking for it.

How much is it going to cost them to roll this out?

ilovesleep

Doc Ruby wrote: »

I posted this previously but its worth another go for the keep on taxin' brigade.

Time for a quick look at the joys of Irish public spending, courtesy of the Irish Times:

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/...301773607.html
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/...307765606.html
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/...310194953.html

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/...313204492.html

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/...308953779.html
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/...312795497.html

€650 million spent on unrealised projects

€30m

Children’s hospital
Some €30 million has been spent by the hospital board – mainly in fees to architects, engineers and other consultants or experts – in progressing its plans. The Government says a revised plan will be produced in the coming months.
€42m

Dart Underground
Plans and land acquisition for the Dart Underground have cost millions, but the project has been delayed indefinitely under the new capital spending plans.
€50m

Media Lab Europe
The high-technology “seed bed”, based in Dublin’s Liberties, was run jointly by the government and Massachusetts Institute of Technology, and was one of Mr Ahern’s most favoured projects. Founded in 2000, it went into liquidation a few years later, with consultants describing its output as “dismal”, “surprisingly weak” and “mediocre”.
€130m
PPARS
The HSE’s information technology project started small, at an estimated cost of €9 million in 1997, and ballooned to a cost of €130 million in 2004, before being put on hold by the Health Service Executive in 2007.
€55m

E-voting
Martin Cullen ordered more than 700 of the machines at a cost of €51 million, only to have them placed in storage in 2004 when security concerns emerged. Attempts to sell them have so far been unsuccessful.
€1.5m

Hospital co-location
Almost €1.5 million was paid in legal and financial costs associated with the now abandoned plans to develop co-located private hospitals. Project agreements for each of these hospitals expired in March 2011.
€44m

Decentralisation
Millions have been spent on acquiring sites for the Government’s decentralisation programme in locations where plans to transfer public service offices and State agencies have been either postponed or axed.
€18m Metro West
Millions has been spent on the design of this section of the Metro. It, too, has been shelved indefinitely as a result of cutbacks to capital spending plans.
€150m
Metro North
The decision not to proceed with the Metro North rail project as part of the 2012-2016 capital investment programme will cost the State more than €150 millionincluding compensation to the project bidders.
€100m

Bertie Bowl
Millions were spent on consultancy fees and the clearances of the Abbotstown development in preparation for a national stadium. Political opposition from Fianna Fáil’s coalition partners, the PDs, ultimately scuppered the project, although the FAI went on to relocate its headquarters at the site.
€42m
Thornton Hall
The Government spent €30 million acquiring land for the Thornton Hall “superprison”, which has been delayed indefinitely. A further €12 million has been spent on original plans for the prison and the Central Mental Hospital. Both designs have since been scrapped. Plans for a scaled-down version of the prison have also been long-fingered.
. . . and what €650 million could buy

185 SCHOOLS
+1 CHILDREN’S HOSPITAL
+1.5 AVIVA STADIUMS
+15 MILES OF LUAS TRACK


And thats just a(nother) lazy Saturday first page of Google search. Then you've the fun and games with social housing, with as much as a third of local authority budgets being spent on houses which are now more expensive than those on the open market.

Where I come from in Galway half the city was poisoned by cryptosporidium, YEARS AFTER THE MONEY WAS MADE AVAILABLE TO FIX THE PROBLEM. Who was fired? Nobody. Eyre Square ran millions over budget and became a national disgrace. Some roadworks up the way from me are now also millions over budget and six months overdue, choking the main traffic route for tens of thousands of people. Tens of millions more being blown on removing roundabouts and putting in useless traffic light systems, you can't drive a hundred meters within the city boundaries without hitting lights now. The list goes on and on and on.

Overturn the lot of them, disband the civil service, shake it out into something more modern, and watch the deficit vanish. To hell with this charge and the rest of the tax hikes until we get some accountability, efficiency, and proper management of public finances.

Not to mention in Dublin and Cork millions were spent on landfill sites that are not being used or so it was reported a few months back.

Ghost Buster

MagicSean wrote: »

Lovin the keyboard warrior stuff. So pathetic.

And you can tell they are keybord warriors because they are typing on a keybord on a forum on a computer!
Would it help if you picture me typing one handed whilst brandishing a banner or a sword?
Or will i spray paint my response directly onto my screen?
You have no idea what any of us do outside of boards

boobar

Staff or "goons" sent to do this work are only doing what they're being asked to do. And I'd say a lot of people tasked with this job, will take no joy in calling to people especially pensioners. I doubt they would like to be seens as debt collectors.

In my view, everyone is entitled to their view of whether this is a fair tax and are also entitled to decide whether they will pay it or not, and to take the consequences.

That said, I will treat the staff calling with respect provided they do the same.

old_aussie

Arnold Layne wrote: »

I have a right to defend my property and will exercise it, if these people come calling.

LOL

twinQuins

bonzos wrote: »

As things stand council staff will hardly answer the phones

Have you ever had to take a phone call working in that position? Because nine times out of ten it's some ****less wonder asking you what the hell you're going to do about [insert problem] when you've already told them the last five times they asked there's nothing you can do.

And the person who can do something either isn't there or won't respond to you.

Corkboi

JoeGil wrote: »

Just pay your tax on time and you won't need to get worked up about anybody knocking on your door.

Thats a disgrace JOE

username123

MagicSean wrote: »

It wont take long. I reckon it will be done on an estate basis at first. Go through the local estates and see what numbers haven't paid then check the land registry for the owners name. Once the estates are done they'll probably move on to the register of electors for the more rural homes. It's a simple process really.

As to court proceedings, I don't know if you've ever been in court for council cases involving parking fines or litter. They can do a dozen cases in half an hour. This will be no different. The charge will be failing to register and they will probably have a copy of the register and a copy of the land registry as evidence. Not much of a defence can be put against that. The case would probably last a minute at best.

Lets just think this through - at current levels of non compliance, 1,300,000 people. So if they compiled a list of people to take to court - I dont know how long that would take.

Then they begin hearing the cases at (using your estimate above) 24 cases an hour.

So 1,300,000/24 cases per hour = 5,4167 hours

5,4167/8 working hours a day = 6,770 days

6,770/5 working days a week = 1,354 weeks

1,354/52 working weeks a year = 26 years.

And thats allowing zero time to compile the list. And assuming a dedicated court.

I think we can safely say, based on your estimates - that no one needs to fear being called to court on it.

Migworks

Great read everyone 80)

Simple fact is, in my household, we are down to one wage coming in, have cut back our outgoings (got rid of landline, put 2nd car off road, dropped medical insurance altogether, dont buy bulk heating oil anymore etc, take my rubbish and recycling to a civic amenity site at a fraction of collection cost, even though it's a 45 mile round trip, haven't had foreign holiday in 3 years, nor visited close family in uk in over a year). We live in the country, have no shop, pub, bus service, link to outside world (3 miles to closest village), poor broadband I laugh at Eircoms monthly call to get me back on board. We struggled to make regular mortgage payments last year but kept on top of the regular bills, but as our home is the most important bill, that now gets priority but all other bills are slowly piling up. When we sit down and work out our incomings and slimmed down outgoings there is a deficit of 400 per month. Our house is not a mansion, it's a small bungalow bought during the boom, as 1st time buyers, and was to be a stepping stone to our dream home. Now if we can keep the banks happy for another 23 years (I'll be 68 then) it will be ours finally to pass on to our children who hopefully will be the generation who clear up this mess.
Point is, come into my home, I'll sit you down to my current bills, and you can advise me what to scrap next in order to pay not just 100 euro, but it's true cost over the next few years, plus the cesspit charge, and water charge. ( and when they fail the cesspit because it was built to older standards 30 years ago they will expect me to find over 5k to dig up the entire back garden and install a new Eco friendly one lol)

No More, Can't Pay even if I wanted to!
Don't care anymore, won't happen to me because it's not how I'm wired, but if you think the suicide rate is high in this country, watch the stats rise over the next few years as these measures are imposed on the population.

Btw, most who are for paying the fee are in a position to do so, without it affecting everything else, (in theory i get the concept). For us, it's a case of how the hell are we meant to. And in case you think we still get dole as one is out of work, we don't, got one year that's it.

Btw2
Cheers Bertie, you are now finally being exposed for what you and your corrupt overpaid goons, and some are still in office, got up to, but no doubt you have plenty stashed away, where as we do not.

Fizzlesque

Are the door to door callers expected to collect the money or just issue verbal/written warnings? Expecting them to collect money is ridiculous - it wouldn't be safe for an innocent staff member to be expected to make themselves targets for mugging (if anyone actually did pay them). What kind of receipt would be issued? This doesn't sound like a well thought out idea at all.

I live alone and never answer the door to strangers - for many reasons, and now I've another reason to add to that list.

My previous full time working week has been reduced to a 2-day week (from 5 to 3 then 2) over the last few years, and, although some posters, in favour of this tax, have commented (on other threads) that €2 a week is nothing, I've reached the unenviable position of discovering that sometimes €2 makes all the difference.

Here's a personal anecdote: As I'm now time rich, cash poor, I decided to volunteer as a tutor for an adult literacy scheme (I'm currently involved in the training to become a tutor). Recently I thought I wouldn't be able to get to my course because I didn't think I had the bus fare to and from the training centre. After searching through every coat, bag, pocket and drawer of my house, I managed to get the fare together - just about. I met someone I know at the bus stop on my way home and this person offered for me to travel as their plus one on their pensioner's bus pass. I was thrilled to still have my two euro bus fare to spend on something else and it didn't go into a jar marked 'Household Tax', even though clearly there are some who think it should have.

When I'm working full time (or more than two days, at least) again, I'd be delighted to pay a bit more to fund those in need, but I disagree with that being connected to my house. I have no problem paying towards a better society for all, but I don't agree with being forced to sign up for a tax on something as basic as a place to live.

I've reduced everything in order to survive this recession. I got rid of my television last year. I took over my own waste management (cycle to the recycle centre/compost bin/etc) because I can't afford to pay for that service anymore. I've been eating home made stew (freezing little containers of the stuff) for more than a year now and buying at-their-sell-by-date foodstuffs for just as long. Scrimping on the heating, walking about the house in semi darkness, for fear of bills that can't be paid. It's so long since I've been out socialising, I don't know if I have any social skills left. Cutting my own hair has been an education - at least it grows back, phew!

I don't mention all these things to complain, merely to point out that a household tax scares me because while I've reduced my expenses right down to the wire, the government still want me to give them what I don't have instead of reducing their expenses. There are no more edges left on my budget to trim. If €2 a week makes a difference to me now, what will it be like in a few year's time? I don't know, you don't know, the government don't know. And that scares me. It's not meanness that stops me from paying, it's fear of the bottomless pit. And the fact I genuinely don't have it to give.

MagicSean

Ghost Buster wrote: »

And you can tell they are keybord warriors because they are typing on a keybord on a forum on a computer!
Would it help if you picture me typing one handed whilst brandishing a banner or a sword?
Or will i spray paint my response directly onto my screen?
You have no idea what any of us do outside of boards

I picture keyboard warriors with braveheart facepaint and shouting at the screen every now and then.

I can be completely positive that nobody who is brave enough to make threats on this forum will actually attack people who call to their door.

username123

Fizzlesque wrote: »

Are the door to door callers expected to collect the money or just issue verbal/written warnings? Expecting them to collect money is ridiculous - it wouldn't be safe for an innocent staff member to be expected to make themselves targets for mugging (if anyone actually did pay them). What kind of receipt would be issued? This doesn't sound like a well thought out idea at all.

Dont worry, its just another scare mongering tactic to try and get people to pay before the deadline.

They clearly didnt scare enough people with the ESB bill checking fantasy - lets face it, if you could use the utility bills to check then why send people door to door - whats next, public registrations in the town square overseen by men in uniforms with guns?

username123

MagicSean wrote: »

I can be completely positive that nobody who is brave enough to make threats on this forum will actually attack people who call to their door.

And I can be completely positive that the notion of council workers calling to the door is pure bluff and scare tactics.

MagicSean

username123 wrote: »

Lets just think this through - at current levels of non compliance, 1,300,000 people. So if they compiled a list of people to take to court - I dont know how long that would take.

Then they begin hearing the cases at (using your estimate above) 24 cases an hour.

So 1,300,000/24 cases per hour = 5,4167 hours

5,4167/8 working hours a day = 6,770 days

6,770/5 working days a week = 1,354 weeks

1,354/52 working weeks a year = 26 years.

And thats allowing zero time to compile the list. And assuming a dedicated court.

I think we can safely say, based on your estimates - that no one needs to fear being called to court on it.

A dedicated court? It will be done at district court level, which sits daily and in many different counties. So 25 counties with 5 court sittings a week is 125 courts per week. Then there's the Dublin courts which have god knows how many district court sittings a week but I will be conservative and say 25. So 150 district court sittings a week times 46 weeks is 6900 per year. So if each district dedicates 2 hours per sitting to these cases (Lets say 3 minutes a case) they will get through 40 cases per sitting which is a total of 276000 cases per year. So about 5 years to prosecute everyone. And that is only using existing court schedules and not accounting for if they introduce dedicated court dates to deal with the capacity issue.

Wibbs

bbam wrote: »

Fine by me pal.
Wallow in your own **** to prove a point if you want to.
It's either this tax or an increase in PAYE. Anyone who at this stage thinks they're not going to be paying more tax over the next few years is a true idiot. How do people think the country will be funded? The standard of living we expect costs money to have, where is that money to come from. Then when people get sick they whinge cos the local hospital has been downgraded, or when their thick kid is in a class of 35 and the teacher hasn't time to spend with him so he can barely read and write by age 12.

Eh I hate to break it to you "pal", at the height of the "boom" and when the tax coffers were at their highest in the history of this state the hospitals and the health service were a sick(no pun) joke. We had/have one of the single worst run health services in the western world. I watched my own father die as a result of it(and he had private healthcare, god luv the poor bastards in the public end). People have actually died because of these gross inefficiencies. You should look up the breast cancer survival rates comparing us to France or Germany then get back to me. This from one of the single most expensive per capita health services in the western world? The schools? There was many a child being taught in unheated prefabs. Ask teachers and parents across the board about our education system. I assure you the only point I want to prove is no more until we get more back.

Weathercheck wrote: »

I think it is hilarious that so many of you are highly strung about this relatively small fee for house owners when the vast majority of you don't own a house!

I own a house. Paid enough tax to do so too. All but a couple of my friends are similar.

Bullseye1 wrote: »

How about we cut out the waste before going back with hat in hand. The about of people who gladly give more money after bad in this country is shocking. Have you not read of the waste of tax payers money over the past ten years yet your happy to give them another €160,000,000.

This. I know the clowns will waste it. It is a 24 carat given.

Doc Ruby wrote: »

I posted this previously but its worth another go for the keep on taxin' brigade.

*great list of sadly unsurprising fookups by the Doc*

And thats just a(nother) lazy Saturday first page of Google search. Then you've the fun and games with social housing, with as much as a third of local authority budgets being spent on houses which are now more expensive than those on the open market.

Where I come from in Galway half the city was poisoned by cryptosporidium, YEARS AFTER THE MONEY WAS MADE AVAILABLE TO FIX THE PROBLEM. Who was fired? Nobody. Eyre Square ran millions over budget and became a national disgrace. Some roadworks up the way from me are now also millions over budget and six months overdue, choking the main traffic route for tens of thousands of people. Tens of millions more being blown on removing roundabouts and putting in useless traffic light systems, you can't drive a hundred meters within the city boundaries without hitting lights now. The list goes on and on and on.

Overturn the lot of them, disband the civil service, shake it out into something more modern, and watch the deficit vanish. To hell with this charge and the rest of the tax hikes until we get some accountability, efficiency, and proper management of public finances.

Nail. On. Head DR. Many nails indeed.

Vizzy wrote:

Ah the old mates brother routine.
My sisters cousins,brother in laws,brothers wife was doing the same thing and saw no waste at all.

TBH it was not my mates brother. It's called "Not getting this website(or the person in question) sued". I could give you any number of examples of inefficiency, downright waste and indeed corruption I've had direct experience of with two councils that shall remain nameless for the above reasons. Things like lucrative contracts tendered out even though the winning bid was already decided. Allocations of public funds in the form of grants for people who knew people. In any event you don't have to believe me or anyone else, but if you think that the majority of councils in this country are efficiently run for the most part, all I can say to you is "welcome to this dimension Vizzy, how did you manage it and can the rest of us pop over to yours?".

shockwave

They will just deduct it from peoples wages and dole payments, much easier than taking people to court.

username123

MagicSean wrote: »

So about 5 years to prosecute everyone.

Fair enough - but 5 years still isnt acceptable. Lets face facts here - no one, troika included, is going to accept that much public money being spent to claim back 100 euro per case. Its just fantasy land to think otherwise.

iguana

If anyone like this comes to my neighbourhood I'll be taking them around to the side of the house where the public footpath was swept away last October and now exists 300m of dangerous rubble that I see my elderly neighbours walking over everyday as it's the route to Tesco. Then I'll go hysterical pregnant woman on them about the danger to my precious unborn any time I need groceries and how any time I call the council about it they pretend they have no record of the damage and even though the first day after the flood they put up signs warning of the danger. And whenever I call the 'dangerous places' department which has in it's remit the responsibility for riverbanks they always put me on to the roads department which has nothing to do with this footpath.

MagicSean

username123 wrote: »

Fair enough - but 5 years still isnt acceptable. Lets face facts here - no one, troika included, is going to accept that much public money being spent to claim back 100 euro per case. Its just fantasy land to think otherwise.

Five years using exisiting capacity. And in most cases the council will also be awarded costs plus they will likely be allowed deduct the court fines from source. And after all that you will still owe the charge plus interest accrued. People not paying will be the biggest money maker for the state.

hondasam

MagicSean wrote: »

It wont take long. I reckon it will be done on an estate basis at first. Go through the local estates and see what numbers haven't paid then check the land registry for the owners name. Once the estates are done they'll probably move on to the register of electors for the more rural homes. It's a simple process really.

As to court proceedings, I don't know if you've ever been in court for council cases involving parking fines or litter. They can do a dozen cases in half an hour. This will be no different. The charge will be failing to register and they will probably have a copy of the register and a copy of the land registry as evidence. Not much of a defence can be put against that. The case would probably last a minute at best.

You are probably right, when we want something from them it takes for ever in a day but the other way round they will work fast. I still think it will be a complete shambles when it starts. I would not be surprised if they actually scrap the idea and start again with another tax that is easier to collect.

username123

MagicSean wrote: »

Five years using exisiting capacity. And in most cases the council will also be awarded costs plus they will likely be allowed deduct the court fines from source. And after all that you will still owe the charge plus interest accrued. People not paying will be the biggest money maker for the state.

Its a nice imaginary game, but thats all it is. Never happen.

MagicSean

iguana wrote: »

If anyone like this comes to my neighbourhood I'll be taking them around to the side of the house where the public footpath was swept away last October and now exists 300m of dangerous rubble that I see my elderly neighbours walking over everyday as it's the route to Tesco. Then I'll go hysterical pregnant woman on them about the danger to my precious unborn any time I need groceries and how any time I call the council about it they pretend they have no record of the damage and even though the first day after the flood they put up signs warning of the danger. And whenever I call the 'dangerous places' department which has in it's remit the responsibility for riverbanks they always put me on to the roads department which has nothing to do with this footpath.

And they will tell you that there is nothing they can do as the list of exempt houses is a legal document that cannot be changed until next year. I have a similar problem in that the roads in my estate aren't finished but because the builder is not in liquidation my estate is not exempt. I was not going to pay until I got an assurance from the council that they would be taking the developer to court on the matter. So next year either the developer will have a court order to finish the estate or he will be liquidated and the estate will be exempt. So it's win win for me.

Tigger

username123 wrote: »

Lets just think this through - at current levels of non compliance, 1,300,000 people. So if they compiled a list of people to take to court - I dont know how long that would take.

Then they begin hearing the cases at (using your estimate above) 24 cases an hour.

So 1,300,000/24 cases per hour = 5,4167 hours

5,4167/8 working hours a day = 6,770 days

6,770/5 working days a week = 1,354 weeks

1,354/52 working weeks a year = 26 years.

And thats allowing zero time to compile the list. And assuming a dedicated court.

I think we can safely say, based on your estimates - that no one needs to fear being called to court on it.

thats not how enforcement works
each council area will take people to court one at a time
people will pay

i'm happy to bet that by thiss thime next year there will be 60+% compliance

MagicSean

username123 wrote: »

Its a nice imaginary game, but thats all it is. Never happen.

Go to your local district court on a day when there are a ton of council cases on the list and watch how fast they go through them. And that solicitor gets paid on a case by case basis so it is well worth his time to get as many convictions as he can in a short space of time.

Predalien

MagicSean wrote: »

Go to your local district court on a day when there are a ton of council cases on the list and watch how fast they go through them. And that solicitor gets paid on a case by case basis so it is well worth his time to get as many convictions as he can in a short space of time.

They don't get paid on a case by case basis, they are salaried employees of the council, they get no extra for extra work.

username123

MagicSean wrote: »

Go to your local district court on a day when there are a ton of council cases on the list and watch how fast they go through them. And that solicitor gets paid on a case by case basis so it is well worth his time to get as many convictions as he can in a short space of time.

Oh sorry, Im not suggesting that speed of cases is an imaginary game, what Im saying is that its an imaginary game to think the government will take people to court over the household charge. Its too expensive and too time consuming, thats already been admitted.

username123

Tigger wrote: »

thats not how enforcement works
each council area will take people to court one at a time
people will pay

i'm happy to bet that by thiss thime next year there will be 60+% compliance

60+% in a year is not going to make Troika happy.

Doc Ruby

ilovesleep wrote: »

Not to mention in Dublin and Cork millions were spent on landfill sites that are not being used or so it was reported a few months back.

And lets not forget the cool €300 million for Bertie's day in court tribunal, which resulted in a 950 word statement from the crook. Tip of the iceberg.

Give me a year of a clear run at it, a team of auditors and the backing of the guards and I'll cut ten times what this tax will bring in from the deficit, just in pure cruft and incompetence alone. Six months if the team is German and three months if they are Japanese, as long as I get to love up the Japanese women.

MagicSean wrote: »

So about 5 years to prosecute everyone.

Do you seriously believe any politician will prosecute the majority of homeowners in the country? They'd be done in politics forever, and their party with them. These people are citizens with votes, not ATMs you punch the keys of until money comes out.

mattjack

MagicSean wrote: »

And they will tell you that there is nothing they can do as the list of exempt houses is a legal document that cannot be changed until next year. I have a similar problem in that the roads in my estate aren't finished but because the builder is not in liquidation my estate is not exempt. I was not going to pay until I got an assurance from the council that they would be taking the developer to court on the matter. So next year either the developer will have a court order to finish the estate or he will be liquidated and the estate will be exempt. So it's win win for me.

And you believe that.There are very few estates covered by exemptions.

Sizzler

I LOL'd when I saw this earlier!

As much as I despise the unions does anybody seriously think they willl let their untouchable members materially change their day job to go and do this?? I seriously doubt it ! Allied to the fact that the unions have already drawn the battle lines on same and are also calling for mass bycott.

It costs a minimum of 1,000 yo yos to get someone in to court, this simply doesnt make sense! It just cant and wont work.

If someone calls to my door I'll just say "speak to the landlord"! They dont have a clue who owns what and this is simply propaganda / desperation and downright scaremongering by bully boy Phil and co.

I am reliably informed the numbers being quoted have been inflated to make it sound like more people have paid than actually have and I believe in one particular council area in Dublin up around 30% of the "registrations" have been from people to file their exemption!!!

RTE are peddling the numbers on a daily basis...WHY? They are only short of having a ticker on their website at this stage FFS. Impartiality my hole.

iguana

MagicSean wrote: »

And they will tell you that there is nothing they can do as the list of exempt houses is a legal document that cannot be changed until next year. I have a similar problem in that the roads in my estate aren't finished but because the builder is not in liquidation my estate is not exempt. I was not going to pay until I got an assurance from the council that they would be taking the developer to court on the matter. So next year either the developer will have a court order to finish the estate or he will be liquidated and the estate will be exempt. So it's win win for me.

The point is every 3rd-5th house these people show up at will have someone using the opportunity to point out exactly where the council is failing in it's existing duty. There is no way they will keep sending people out because this is what will happen. And I will have had the opportunity to actually show someone the damage, which even though I know won't achieve anything, will feel every so slightly satisfactory after months of being passed about on the phone.

Sizzler

Oh and the govt are claiming the money is going towards vital services for regional councils....and NOT the TROIKA.....bullsh*t.

Phil Hogan slashed the councils budgets by 170m in total this year in the misguided hope he could srcew the taxpayer to replace it so he could keep Merkozy & co happy!

Sorry, not taking it philly.