What do you think happens when you die?

Toby Take a Bow

ihopethisfi wrote: »

I do feel the same way to a lesser extent about missionaries, But at least they're spreading something positive. What good is it convincing someone that when life ends that's it?

So that you can make the most of the life when you're around? A criticism of the Catholic/Islamic view of a heaven/reward based system is that you accept your suffering on earth with the anticipation of rewards/virgins in the afterlife. If that option isn't 'open' to you, you might be more prepared to make alterations to this life to make it a better place.

ihopethisfi wrote: »

I remember when I was in school a person a year above me wrote an 8 page portfolio of why their is no god andsent it to the priest. What good comes out of that for the person who wrote it? And what good comes out of sending it to the priest?

What's the point in writing a critique of Shakespeare/Orwell/Huxley and giving it to your English teacher? Exchanging ideas and debating is good for the mind. AND it's a two-way system, so you might learn something from your teacher/priest, and vice-versa.

eyescreamcone

ihopethisfi wrote: »

I don't want to get into a big long discussion here . My opinion is that all passionate atheists are a bunch of WEIRDO CREEPS . Your opinion is probably the right one but to feel the need to argue it to the death until every thinks what you think because ye're so smart ye fkin condescending NERD no-it alls

Haha
Weirdo creeps - gotta love that one

(...and it's "know-it-all" not "no-it-all", but maybe we'll put that slip down to getting too excited )

cynder

nothing, not until my bones are unearthed and some weirdo starts carbon testing them and then tries to clone me.....


until then nothing.....

Napper Hawkins

ihopethisfi wrote: »

I don't want to get into a big long discussion here .

I sincerely doubt you're capable of it anyway.

ihopethisfi wrote: »

My opinion is that all passionate atheists are a bunch of WEIRDO CREEPS .

I'd agree that certainly some are, but I'd be fairly certain that there are a much higher number of religious WIERDO CREEPS than there are non-religious.

ihopethisfi wrote: »

Your opinion is probably the right one but to feel the need to argue it to the death until every thinks what you think because ye're so smart ye fkin condescending NERD no-it alls

When religion stops trying to tell people how to live their lives and stays out of public affairs and schools then I reckon those nasty atheists will leave the poor persecuted, multi-million strong, religious folk alone.

ScumLord

shizz wrote: »

Are they really? According to the belief, if you don't accept or believe in god and follow Jesus, you are condemned to hell. But then there is the paradox, if they were never told about Jesus how can they reject him? Therefore, surely not informing them of Jesus could save their "afterlife"?

They are called heathens and god intentionally didn't reveal himself to them because they are unworthy or possibly not a white, European Christians like Jesus was.

ihopethisfi wrote: »

I don't want to get into a big long discussion here . My opinion is that all passionate atheists are a bunch of WEIRDO CREEPS . Your opinion is probably the right one but to feel the need to argue it to the death until every thinks what you think because ye're so smart ye fkin condescending NERD no-it alls

That's some fine nonsense you've got there. Atheists do fall into the same trap religious folk have used for millennia. That being, they know the truth and they're trying to save everybody else from a life in the dark, it's a thing about people they like to help those they feel are being taken advantage of.

Bottom line is everyone's entitled to their opinion and if you don't think they have that right your a bigot.

briantannam

Us living people will never know.

shizz

ScumLord wrote: »

They are called heathens and god intentionally didn't reveal himself to them because they are unworthy or possibly not a white, European Christians like Jesus was.

So there goes the God created us all in his image I suppose? One ridiculous situation spawns another I suppose.

Seachmall

ihopethisfi wrote: »

Your opinion is probably the right one but to feel the need to argue it to the death until every thinks what you think

I think you meant "...until everyone thinks..."

because ye're so smart ye fkin condescending NERD no-it alls

No we're not.



*know-it-alls.

briantannam

ScumLord wrote: »

They are called heathens and god intentionally didn't reveal himself to them because they are unworthy or possibly not a white, European Christians like Jesus was.

That's some fine nonsense you've got there. Atheists do fall into the same trap religious folk have used for millennia. That being, they know the truth and they're trying to save everybody else from a life in the dark, it's a thing about people they like to help those they feel are being taken advantage of.

Bottom line is everyone's entitled to their opinion and if you don't think they have that right your a bigot.

atheist.jpg

Doylers

Yeah all know the bible was written by a few "normal" lads(possibly in their sheds). Whats to stop me doing the same, convincing a few hundred bordies im god, and making them spread the word. In a thousand years people may worship me.

shizz

Doylers wrote: »

Yeah all know the bible was written by a few "normal" lads(possibly in their sheds). Whats to stop me doing the same, convincing a few hundred bordies im god, and making them spread the word. In a thousand years people may worship me.

You would be classed as clinically insane now. That's the difference.

ScumLord

Doylers wrote: »

Yeah all know the bible was written by a few "normal" lads(possibly in their sheds). Whats to stop me doing the same, convincing a few hundred bordies im god, and making them spread the word. In a thousand years people may worship me.

2000 years of education, and science. Nobody would ever believe any of this stuff today. Even if god was real and only appeared in the last year or so spouting his eye for an eye stuff we'd consider him some oppressive alien and would probably try to fight him.

Doylers

shizz wrote: »

You would be classed as clinically insane now. That's the difference.

Or an entrepreneur

positron

Doylers for God. Let's make it happen!

Deki

shizz wrote: »

Explain to me how, if God created us, we aren't perfect to begin with? Why doesn't god just start over if he made a mistake with us. Why should we have to suffer for his mistakes?

There was the little problem we ran into in the garden. That changed a good many things. That brought sin into it. It was our choice to sin. God knew of course that we would fall, He also knew there was a plan for our redemption.
Man separates himself from God. The old testament repeatedly points to the coming of Christ, he was prophesied from the beginning. I am sure you knew of these things. God is not willing that any be lost. Nothing can separate us from Him- except we do it ourselves.

Seachmall

ScumLord wrote: »

Even if god was real and only appeared in the last year or so spouting his eye for an eye stuff we'd consider him some oppressive alien and would probably try to fight him.

newmug

Here's what I think happens, I wrote it before for a different thread and just copied it:


This is what I think will happen: You die, your soul goes to God The Father. He is the strict, no bull, Old Testament God. He and you go through your life, all the good points, all the sins etc. and He will tell you you deserve hell. (Everybody does, only perfect souls get into Heaven).

Then, Jesus will come along. He'll put his arm around you, and plead with God The Father to reconsider. He'll make the arguement that nobody's perfect, and that whatever you did during your life, sure didnt he pay for it in advance anyway by His Crucifiction. He'll point out any time you suffered in your Earthly life, and ask that that be taken into account in your favour. He'll agree that you probably do deserve hell, but if there is a single grain of love or goodness in your heart, you should be shown some forgiveness and mercy.

This is where your actions in life will come into play. If you were a good Catholic, you've already ticked all the "Good" boxes. So the less you sinned, the less will be subtracted from your score, as it were. If you were not Catholic, then it becomes more complicated. You would have had to do an enormous amount of good in your life to gain the grace that even one mass would gain for you. Either way, God The Father will then make a decision on whats to be done with you. There's no point in harming your chances by being a non-Catholic while in this life though, you only have ONE craic at life!

For most people then, its purgatory. Basically its hell, but with a return ticket when you've purged yourself. Think of it as a reduced sentence, thanks to Jesus. So you're plunged into "lake of fire", much akin to a volcano or the centre of the Earth. Did you ever get into the bath when its too hot? Well multiply that by a billion billion billion, and you've some idea of the pain. The kids at Fatima saw it, as did the kids at Cappoquin, and thats how they described it. People wallowing around all orange and on fire, arms flailing, people roaring and screaming with helplessness and pain. And of course, the evil divil himself down there, instilling fear, terror and psychological suffering too! Think of that the next time you tell a porky pie!

And there you'll be, smothering in molten rock, asking yourself why you missed mass, why you were stupid enough to ride all those young-ones before marraige, why you didnt just believe in God even in the off-chance He was real, if only you could have another go at life you'd be a priest etc etc.

Then it all depends on how long you have to stay there. Jesus himself was there for three days, and He never comitted a sin in His life! Thats just the way it is.

I love the verse in the Bible where the man being crucified beside Jesus was fair, when the other man was sneering at Jesus, and Jesus said to him "Today, you will be with me in Paradise". That always gives me great solace. It shows that you dont always have to go to hell, or at least not for too long. That man suffered enough on the cross to pay for his sins. However I believe most people will stay in hell till Judgement Day. It will be then, that you are either told you have been purged and are allowed into Heaven, or you will be told sorry bud, back with ya, this time forever.

Anyway, for those that get into Heaven, it will be exactly like you remember Earth (it WILL be Earth in fact), only there will be no sorrow, hatred, fear, hunger, war, or evil of any kind, and there WILL be GOD himself, there to personally iron out every little problem you ever have, and everybody will be in ecstacy with love and peace and positivity and happiness and joy!!!!!!!!!!!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pSiOncZT0TI


(Funny how some athiests, the "God-is-a-douche" crowd, kinda half believe in God, but are pissed off with Him for not providing Heaven right now? The mind boggles!!!)

Seachmall

newmug wrote: »

(Funny how some athiests, the "God-is-a-douche" crowd, kinda half believe in God, but are pissed off with Him for not providing Heaven right now? The mind boggles!!!)

...?

newmug

Seachmall wrote: »

...?

Seachmall

newmug wrote: »

:mad:

ScumLord

newmug wrote: »

This is what I think will happen: You die, your soul goes to God The Father. He is the strict, no bull, Old Testament God. He and you go through your life, all the good points, all the sins etc. and He will tell you you deserve hell. (Everybody does, only perfect souls get into Heaven).

If you've turned anyone into salt or forced somebody to kill their child you should be quids in.

Then, Jesus will come along. He'll put his arm around you, and plead with God The Father to reconsider.

At this point he'll be talking to himself in the third person which will make him look bat **** crazy.

shizz

@newmug, I really don't understand how anyone could believe in that.

Edit: ScumLord I was going to say the same thing, but there was just so much wrong with what he said that my head nearly exploded.

Napper Hawkins

newmug wrote: »

Here's what I think happens, I wrote it before for a different thread and just copied it:


This is what I think will happen: You die, your soul goes to God The Father. He is the strict, no bull, Old Testament God. He and you go through your life, all the good points, all the sins etc. and He will tell you you deserve hell. (Everybody does, only perfect souls get into Heaven).

Then, Jesus will come along. He'll put his arm around you, and plead with God The Father to reconsider. He'll make the arguement that nobody's perfect, and that whatever you did during your life, sure didnt he pay for it in advance anyway by His Crucifiction. He'll point out any time you suffered in your Earthly life, and ask that that be taken into account in your favour. He'll agree that you probably do deserve hell, but if there is a single grain of love or goodness in your heart, you should be shown some forgiveness and mercy.

This is where your actions in life will come into play. If you were a good Catholic, you've already ticked all the "Good" boxes. So the less you sinned, the less will be subtracted from your score, as it were. If you were not Catholic, then it becomes more complicated. You would have had to do an enormous amount of good in your life to gain the grace that even one mass would gain for you. Either way, God The Father will then make a decision on whats to be done with you. There's no point in harming your chances by being a non-Catholic while in this life though, you only have ONE craic at life!

For most people then, its purgatory. Basically its hell, but with a return ticket when you've purged yourself. Think of it as a reduced sentence, thanks to Jesus. So you're plunged into "lake of fire", much akin to a volcano or the centre of the Earth. Did you ever get into the bath when its too hot? Well multiply that by a billion billion billion, and you've some idea of the pain. The kids at Fatima saw it, as did the kids at Cappoquin, and thats how they described it. People wallowing around all orange and on fire, arms flailing, people roaring and screaming with helplessness and pain. And of course, the evil divil himself down there, instilling fear, terror and psychological suffering too! Think of that the next time you tell a porky pie!

And there you'll be, smothering in molten rock, asking yourself why you missed mass, why you were stupid enough to ride all those young-ones before marraige, why you didnt just believe in God even in the off-chance He was real, if only you could have another go at life you'd be a priest etc etc.

Then it all depends on how long you have to stay there. Jesus himself was there for three days, and He never comitted a sin in His life! Thats just the way it is.

I love the verse in the Bible where the man being crucified beside Jesus was fair, when the other man was sneering at Jesus, and Jesus said to him "Today, you will be with me in Paradise". That always gives me great solace. It shows that you dont always have to go to hell, or at least not for too long. That man suffered enough on the cross to pay for his sins. However I believe most people will stay in hell till Judgement Day. It will be then, that you are either told you have been purged and are allowed into Heaven, or you will be told sorry bud, back with ya, this time forever.

Anyway, for those that get into Heaven, it will be exactly like you remember Earth (it WILL be Earth in fact), only there will be no sorrow, hatred, fear, hunger, war, or evil of any kind, and there WILL be GOD himself, there to personally iron out every little problem you ever have, and everybody will be in ecstacy with love and peace and positivity and happiness and joy!!!!!!!!!!!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pSiOncZT0TI


(Funny how some athiests, the "God-is-a-douche" crowd, kinda half believe in God, but are pissed off with Him for not providing Heaven right now? The mind boggles!!!)

You forgot that everyone who gets into Heaven gets a free pen.

newmug

shizz wrote: »

@newmug, I really don't understand how anyone could believe in that.

Edit: ScumLord I was going to say the same thing, but there was just so much wrong with what he said that my head nearly exploded.

I dont understand, how you dont understand. But each to their own.

ScumLord

Napper Hawkins wrote: »

You forgot that everyone who gets into Heaven gets a free pen.

No that's a trick. If you take the pen your committing a sin and even though God has absolutely no use for the pen he'll get angry and throw you out of his heaven.

shizz

newmug wrote: »

I dont understand, how you dont understand. But each to their own.

Well for starters everything you said there is what you think will happen based on NO evidence.

Like you said each to their own. If you wanna believe something like that with no evidence to support it fine, just don't spread it on like fact to people.

Doylers

positron wrote: »

Doylers for God. Let's make it happen!

Awww yeah baby lets do this sh!t

A0

Teddy... I reckon Boards account is deleted. And you have to register for another (sad) version of it: blackboards.ie, Now ye're dyin'. Posts number reset to zero by the way.

eyescreamcone

newmug wrote: »

Here's what I think happens, I wrote it before for a different thread and just copied it:


This is what I think will happen: You die, your soul goes to God The Father. He is the strict, no bull, Old Testament God. He and you go through your life, all the good points, all the sins etc. and He will tell you you deserve hell. (Everybody does, only perfect souls get into Heaven).

Then, Jesus will come along. He'll put his arm around you, and plead with God The Father to reconsider. He'll make the arguement that nobody's perfect, and that whatever you did during your life, sure didnt he pay for it in advance anyway by His Crucifiction. He'll point out any time you suffered in your Earthly life, and ask that that be taken into account in your favour. He'll agree that you probably do deserve hell, but if there is a single grain of love or goodness in your heart, you should be shown some forgiveness and mercy.

This is where your actions in life will come into play. If you were a good Catholic, you've already ticked all the "Good" boxes. So the less you sinned, the less will be subtracted from your score, as it were. If you were not Catholic, then it becomes more complicated. You would have had to do an enormous amount of good in your life to gain the grace that even one mass would gain for you. Either way, God The Father will then make a decision on whats to be done with you. There's no point in harming your chances by being a non-Catholic while in this life though, you only have ONE craic at life!

For most people then, its purgatory. Basically its hell, but with a return ticket when you've purged yourself. Think of it as a reduced sentence, thanks to Jesus. So you're plunged into "lake of fire", much akin to a volcano or the centre of the Earth. Did you ever get into the bath when its too hot? Well multiply that by a billion billion billion, and you've some idea of the pain. The kids at Fatima saw it, as did the kids at Cappoquin, and thats how they described it. People wallowing around all orange and on fire, arms flailing, people roaring and screaming with helplessness and pain. And of course, the evil divil himself down there, instilling fear, terror and psychological suffering too! Think of that the next time you tell a porky pie!

And there you'll be, smothering in molten rock, asking yourself why you missed mass, why you were stupid enough to ride all those young-ones before marraige, why you didnt just believe in God even in the off-chance He was real, if only you could have another go at life you'd be a priest etc etc.

Then it all depends on how long you have to stay there. Jesus himself was there for three days, and He never comitted a sin in His life! Thats just the way it is.

I love the verse in the Bible where the man being crucified beside Jesus was fair, when the other man was sneering at Jesus, and Jesus said to him "Today, you will be with me in Paradise". That always gives me great solace. It shows that you dont always have to go to hell, or at least not for too long. That man suffered enough on the cross to pay for his sins. However I believe most people will stay in hell till Judgement Day. It will be then, that you are either told you have been purged and are allowed into Heaven, or you will be told sorry bud, back with ya, this time forever.

Anyway, for those that get into Heaven, it will be exactly like you remember Earth (it WILL be Earth in fact), only there will be no sorrow, hatred, fear, hunger, war, or evil of any kind, and there WILL be GOD himself, there to personally iron out every little problem you ever have, and everybody will be in ecstacy with love and peace and positivity and happiness and joy!!!!!!!!!!!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pSiOncZT0TI


(Funny how some athiests, the "God-is-a-douche" crowd, kinda half believe in God, but are pissed off with Him for not providing Heaven right now? The mind boggles!!!)

...the little dog laughed to see such fun
And the pig ran away with the spoon!!!

newmug

shizz wrote: »

Well for starters everything you said there is what you think will happen based on NO evidence.

Like you said each to their own. If you wanna believe something like that with no evidence to support it fine, just don't spread it on like fact to people.

Well its based on the Bible and apparations (basically witness accounts), which could be argued is a type of evidence, albiet one where you have to accept that the supernatural exists to believe what is said.

As for the bolded bit, I didnt spread it on as fact, I said "here's what I think will happen", not "here's what is definately going to happen".

eyescreamcone

Or was it the dish that ran away with the spoon???

A0

^^^^ Why so serious?

Napper Hawkins

ScumLord wrote: »

No that's a trick. If you take the pen your committing a sin and even though God has absolutely no use for the pen he'll get angry and throw you out of his heaven.

Ssssshhhhutupp!!:eek:

Dimithy

newmug wrote: »

Well its based on the Bible and apparations (basically witness accounts), which could be argued is a type of evidence, albiet one where you have to accept that the supernatural exists to believe what is said.

Well, Your Honor. We've plenty of hearsay and conjecture. Those are kinds of evidence

Scanlas The 2nd

philologos wrote: »

shizz wrote: »

That is awful to read.

Try a more modern translation. It doesn't differ in meaning from the KJV, the way it is expressed is more accessible. That's simply because language has changed since 1611.

“So whatever you wish that others would do to you, do also to them, for this is the Law and the Prophets.
“Enter by the narrow gate. For the gate is wide and the way is easy that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many. For the gate is narrow and the way is hard that leads to life, and those who find it are few.
(Matthew 7:12-14 ESV)

I don't see how it is irrational to look to the Bible, and to examine how its claims are evident in reality. That's simply what I've aimed to do since and before I became a Christian.

Simply put, I find that the Biblical approach to reality, the human condition is more accurate than any secular portrayal of this. The secular portrayal runs away from the simple truth that all have done what is wrong. The Biblical text deals with this head on, it tells us that we were created for God's glory, that man screwed up, but that Jesus has given mankind grace to be restored to God. The sin of man is clear, it's accounted for daily in newspapers and TV news. Deep down in our own heart, we all know that we've done what is wrong rather than what is right. Through Jesus, we become accountable for it, we accept that there is nothing we can do to be right with God, but through Jesus' death and resurrection we can come into a new relationship with Him.

The idea of God, isn't hugely difficult to understand. There's good and sound reason that one would believe that God created the heavens and the earth. Simply put because the universe ultimately must have a cause. We can run away from this concept as much as we like, but ultimately nothing comes out of nothing. The idea of objective morality also isn't very difficult to explain. The idea of God, seems a whole lot more reasonable than atheism from my perspective. The Gospel makes a lot of sense, and God's existence makes a lot of sense.

The world can proclaim that the Gospel is nonsense, or that God's existence is fundamentally unlikely, but ultimately I haven't seen much to convince me through the noise. On the other hand, I sought to see what I made of this whole God thing about 5 years ago by reading the Bible. It's changed my perspective of life ever since.

So why should I be an atheist when I see plenty of reason to believe in Jesus and none to deny His truth?

So did god come out of nothing?

philologos

RussellTuring wrote: »

Automata. For your assertions to be of any consequence, you first need to demonstrate that your god is responsible for this concept of free will. Unfortunately for you, a belief in the existence of something like this doesn't necessarily mean your god exists. I could easily say that my god, Derek, invented the concept of gravity. That doesn't mean he exists.

Additionally, could you give us your idea of what free will is? I'm not sure I accept it as readily as you, let alone your assumption that it was something that had to be created at all.

Thanks for your post.

I don't think it is any more an "assertion" than the idea that this universe managed to cause itself to exist. In fact it's much less of an assertion. It seems more sound to me to argue that there was an intelligent Creator than the idea that this universe spontaneously came to be out of absolutely nothing.

That's the ultimate claim that we have to tackle when it comes to Creation. Explaining free will in the light of a Creator isn't hugely difficult. If all things were created, and if humanity was also created then it is a part of the creation of humanity that they have this thing called the will, that allows them to determine their active behaviour or what path they are going to meander give or take in this life.

It doesn't particularly matter whether you call God Derek or not. We begin looking at Creation. That points us by and large to a Creator God. What we can do then is assess on the basis of the Biblical text as to whether or not it corresponds to the way things are. If it does, then it is entirely reasonable to suggest that this points to Christianity being true. Indeed, it helps us point to the identity of the God that many call "unknown".

The difference is simple in this case. It comes down to whether or not God has revealed Himself to us. If He has, then His word is authoritative. If He hasn't then you're right, its just mankind pointing varying guesses as the Almighty.

It's much the same as this. I've used this analogy on boards.ie before, so forgive me if you've read it already. If there is a girl called Lucy, and if one of Lucy's classmates writes a note claiming that "Lucy is a dog". Does Lucy have the right to defend herself? And indeed, if Lucy does defend her humanity to those who read the note, should Lucy's word about herself be regarded as authentic.

There's a flaw in this analogy insofar as Lucy is not omniscient. However, the same logic can be applied to God. If God has spoken, what is the conjecture of humanity about Him? His omniscience is more of a reason that we should regard what He has told us about Himself and Creation to be authoritative.

You're right, there could be a god called Derek. On the basis of what has been revealed, and on the basis of what we know of Christianity. I'd say that there is a heck of a lot more to demonstrate it being true over other approaches. At the same time, I'm more than likely to consider those other approaches should adherents come to me and tell me about it.

What atheists fail to consider is that just because there are lots of opinions on God doesn't mean that atheism is any more right. Indeed, atheism is simply one of those positions on God, and is equally as questionable.

Scanlas The 2nd wrote: »

So did god come out of nothing?

Finite things, must have been created a finite time ago. That's why I question the origins of things such as the universe. Finite things, have causes.

God however, being external to Creation is not confined to its constraints, and is infinite in terms of time, and space. Indeed, it is necessary that the Creator of the universe suits these qualities. If God was finite in age, He too would have to be created. If God were confined in space, someone else would have had to create that space, and indeed it would mean that God would be limited in His availability.

Dimithy

philologos wrote: »

Finite things, must have been created a finite time ago. That's why I question the origins of things such as the universe. Finite things, have causes.

God however, being external to Creation is not confined to its constraints, and is infinite in terms of time, and space. Indeed, it is necessary that the Creator of the universe suits these qualities. If God was finite in age, He too would have to be created. If God were confined in space, someone else would have had to create that space, and indeed it would mean that God would be limited in His availability.

Thats all very convenient.

Might i ask where you got this information from, and do you have anything to back it up?

Deki

http://www.allaboutscience.org/first-law-of-thermodynamics-faq.htm

supernatural? proof ?- no, but seems to support the idea that there was a supernatural event before the universe.

Dimithy

Deki wrote: »

http://www.allaboutscience.org/first-law-of-thermodynamics-faq.htm

supernatural? proof ?- no, but seems to support the idea that there was a supernatural event before the universe.

Of course it does. If your starting point is "I believe God created everything", then you can make anything fit.

Oh Hell Oui!

Myself and Odin (the all-father) have a couple beers in Valhalla, log onto boards, for a laugh at the 'Is there a judeo-christian god?' debates and wait for Ragnarok.

p.s. there is a judeo-christian God, hes a tosser and cleans Odins pool on wednesdays.:D

shizz

Deki wrote: »

http://www.allaboutscience.org/first-law-of-thermodynamics-faq.htm

supernatural? proof ?- no, but seems to support the idea that there was a supernatural event before the universe.

No. It only says that if "God did it" is your answer to everything unknown.

positron

philologos wrote: »

Finite things, must have been created a finite time ago. That's why I question the origins of things such as the universe. Finite things, have causes.

So you are sure that universe is finite? Lads, will someone get on the phone with Stephen Hawking please, let's get this news out. :rolleyes:

eyescreamcone

Oh Hell Oui! wrote: »

Myself and Odin (the all-father) have a couple beers in Valhalla, log onto boards, for a laugh at the 'Is there a judeo-christian god?' debates and wait for Ragnarok.

p.s. there is a judeo-christian God, hes a tosser and cleans Odins pool on wednesdays.:D

On Odins-day you mean?
I get it

Deki

Dimithy wrote: »

Of course it does. If your starting point is "I believe God created everything", then you can make anything fit.

shizz wrote: »

No. It only says that if "God did it" is your answer to everything unknown.

last paragraph

Science has shown that the First Law of Thermodynamics applies to all matter and energy, no matter how much or what the conditions are. Looking at bigger and bigger systems of matter and energy eventually leads to a question: where did all of the matter and energy in the universe come from? The Second Law of Thermodynamics shows us that all of the energy in the universe is moving towards a less “useable” form. However, the First Law of Thermodynamics shows us that nothing in the physical universe can create or destroy that matter or energy. If nothing natural can create matter or energy, then something supernatural must have created them


I didn't make those laws. I didn't start with anything.

shizz

Deki wrote: »

last paragraph

Science has shown that the First Law of Thermodynamics applies to all matter and energy, no matter how much or what the conditions are. Looking at bigger and bigger systems of matter and energy eventually leads to a question: where did all of the matter and energy in the universe come from? The Second Law of Thermodynamics shows us that all of the energy in the universe is moving towards a less “useable” form. However, the First Law of Thermodynamics shows us that nothing in the physical universe can create or destroy that matter or energy. If nothing natural can create matter or energy, then something supernatural must have created them


I didn't make those laws. I didn't start with anything.

And why does that automatically mean god? Supernatural means outside our laws of physics. It's well documented that at the singularity of the big bang and billionths of a second after, before inflation, the laws of physics as we know them today break down. That's why we can only go so far.

Why does this mean God?

eyescreamcone

shizz wrote: »

Deki wrote: »

last paragraph

Science has shown that the First Law of Thermodynamics applies to all matter and energy, no matter how much or what the conditions are. Looking at bigger and bigger systems of matter and energy eventually leads to a question: where did all of the matter and energy in the universe come from? The Second Law of Thermodynamics shows us that all of the energy in the universe is moving towards a less “useable” form. However, the First Law of Thermodynamics shows us that nothing in the physical universe can create or destroy that matter or energy. If nothing natural can create matter or energy, then something supernatural must have created them


I didn't make those laws. I didn't start with anything.

And why does that automatically mean god? Supernatural means outside our laws of physics. It's well documented that at the singularity of the big bang and billionths of a second after, before inflation, the laws of physics as we know them today break down. That's why we can only go so far.

Why does this mean God?

...because the fairytaleists want it to

Deki

shizz wrote: »

And why does that automatically mean god? Supernatural means outside our laws of physics. It's well documented that at the singularity of the big bang and billionths of a second after, before inflation, the laws of physics as we know them today break down. That's why we can only go so far.

Why does this mean God?

I didn't say it did. I only said science can't offer proof. So my opinion as that of many others is just as viable as any. Those who don't believe in God think I must be out of my mind. That's ok by me - you can think anything you like. I've heard a lot of theories. No proof of anything. In my first post I said I couldn't provide proof. You seem to be asserting you have proof of your theories. I haven't seen that yet. For the most part I've seen closed minds to any opinion other than your own. To me, and this is observation on my part, I hear a lot of whistling in the dark.

Seachmall

Deki wrote: »

I didn't say it did. I only said science can't offer proof. So my opinion as that of many others is just as viable as many. Those who don't believe in God think I must be out of my mind. That's ok by me - you can think anything you like. I've heard a lot of theories. No proof of anything.

Why not then just say "I don't know. We don't know."?


(Genuine question.)

Dimithy

Deki wrote: »

last paragraph

Science has shown that the First Law of Thermodynamics applies to all matter and energy, no matter how much or what the conditions are. Looking at bigger and bigger systems of matter and energy eventually leads to a question: where did all of the matter and energy in the universe come from? The Second Law of Thermodynamics shows us that all of the energy in the universe is moving towards a less “useable” form. However, the First Law of Thermodynamics shows us that nothing in the physical universe can create or destroy that matter or energy. If nothing natural can create matter or energy, then something supernatural must have created them


I didn't make those laws. I didn't start with anything.

You didnt start with anything, but the makers of the site did.
If you have a look around you can see that they have started from a position that God did it, and tried to fit all the science around.
Its a creation site trying to dress it all up as legitimate science.

Deki

Because this thread asked "What do you think happens when you die?"
So I said what I think somehow after that there was a bombardment of posts telling me how ludicrous my beliefs are. As of yet no one has been able to tell me why all these posters even care what I think? I didn't ask anyone to change their beliefs. I believe what I believe, and whether I am right or the atheists are right, I am not backing down on my beliefs. I do however have to leave now as I'm out of bread.:P Take care...