Break in service.New entrant or not?

Laura.Lee

I would appreciate any help with this. I can't seem to find what I am looking for!
My sister taught unqualified for the year 2009-2010. (maternity leave)
She completed her PGDE in JUNE 2011.
She went to Australia last September and intends to apply for a second year visa.
If and when she returns, will she be classed as a new entrant because there has been such a lapse in service?

Terri26

I doubt her hours teaching unqualified counts so unless she had hours after she had actually qualified then yes she is a new entrant.

Millem

Terri26 wrote: »

I doubt her hours teaching unqualified counts so unless she had hours after she had actually qualified then yes she is a new entrant.

I would think new entrant also, I did subbing in my final year of my B.Ed and those hours didn't go towards increment as I was unqualified at the time!

desmurphy

Definitely not a new entrant

delta_bravo

Not a new entrant in terms of starting salary but may well be affected by the allowances cuts.

Once you have a payroll number from before 1/1/2011 you are not a new entrant as far as I know.

byhookorbycrook

From another website
"If you are going travelling and do not teach for any day within 6 months in Ireland, you will be considered a "new entrant" on your return and will lose out on the more favourable pension etc. 3 girls I knew flew back from Australia to do some subbing in Jan,so check very carefully how long you will be gone and what you may need to do to make sure you will not be viewed as a new entrant on your return.Same applies of course if you stay here and don't teach/sub."

and from the INTO site


1. What is this about changed pension conditions if a teacher is out of service for 26 weeks?
Answer: First, it is important to understand that the 26-week provision applies to pension terms only, and not to teacher salary or points on the salary scale. If a teacher is out of service, other than on an approved absence from work, for 26 weeks or more, this may have implications for their pension terms.
2. Where did the link between 26 weeks absence and pensions start?
Answer: A new pension scheme was introduced in 2004. The main change was that all new entrants to the public service on or after 1 April 2004 have a standard retirement age of 65 years (previous entrants may retire earlier).
In addition, Section 2 of the 2004 Act states that a person who leaves the public service and later returns will be treated as a “new entrant” for pension purposes unless he or she takes up the new appointment to the public service no later than 26 weeks following the previous service.

3. Why is there talk now about the 26 weeks absence provision?
Answer: Because government has indicated that it proposes to introduce further revisions of the pension scheme for public servants. This will require a new law (Act) to be passed. The current proposal is that entrants from a date to be determined in 2011 will have different and less favourable pension terms.
It is likely that the “2011 new entrants” will be those starting service for the first time after the date in any new law, or persons who leave the service and who resume 26 weeks or more after their last service.
4. What kind of absences are counted in the pension-related 26 weeks?
Answer: The 26 weeks absence issue only arises if a teacher is “out of service”. A teacher on leave, approved by the Board of Management (either paid or unpaid), continues to be an employee of the Board of Management and therefore continuity of service is maintained. Teachers on approved leave therefore do not have to worry about the 26 weeks issue.
5. I am currently “out of service” having resigned my teaching post. What can I do to avoid being a pension-related “new entrant”?
Answer: The best way is to ensure that you do not let a gap in your employment record of more than 26 weeks arise. This can be achieved by working as a substitute teacher (even for 1 day) at intervals of less than 26 weeks.
6. I am currently in college. Will I be a “new entrant” when I start my career?
Answer: At this stage we do not know the date the new legislation (if enacted) will become operative. If your first employment in the public service is after that date you will be a “new entrant”. However, if you secure work prior to that date (and do not subsequently incur a break of more than 26 weeks) you will not be a new entrant. In this context a day in the employment of the state could suffice to avoid becoming a “new entrant”.
7. So what about the salary cut for new entrants in 2011, and are we sure the 26-week provision does not apply?
Answer: On 2 December 2010, the government approved a 10% cut to the pay scale of new entrants to the public service. In addition, each new entrant starts at the 1st point of the scale. This involves a cut of the order of 13%+ in the case of new teachers.
The written documentation on the cut makes no reference to a 26-week provision. It is in fact made clear that public servants who have been in either permanent or temporary employment in the public service, on or before 31 December 2010, will not generally be regarded as new entrants, specifically where the person is being recruited to the same or an analogous role as their previous public service employment. No 26-week time limit or any other time limit applies.
This establishes that a teacher who has, for example, 2 years service prior to summer 2011 (and is therefore on point 4 of the salary scale), subsequently leaves the country for 3 or 4 years and then returns to primary teaching, s/he will return on point 4 or 5 of the teachers’ salary scale. The 26-week provision regarding leavers/returners does not apply in salary matters.

Laura.Lee

Thank you for your replies. I should have said that my sister is a secondary school teacher and was paid by the dept. the year she taight before getting her PGDE. Does the 26 week break still apply?

whiteandlight

We were told that it had to be qualified work in order to get onto the old scales. I was working in a private school in Ireland and the only reason I avoided bein put on the new scale when I re-entered public service was because I had taught one hour a week of sphe/tutor that was department paid after I qualified. None of my unqualified work with the department allowed me to be on the old scales

byhookorbycrook

I'd contact the union, too important to make a blunder !

Laura.Lee

Ok, will contact my union asap to find out for sure. Thanks again.

Moody_mona

I am on the old scale because of my unqualified subbing. If you have a teacher payroll number, you can fight for it.

siobhd

When I started my PGDE in September 2010 I subbed in the school I was in and because of this I am on the old pay scale. I rang the Dept. when I secured my current job and confirmed that I was old pay scale. They told me that because I began in 2010 before the deadline of Jan last year I was old pay scale.