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Yamakasi Catleap monitor club.

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    #1052
    Tea_Bag
    Registered Users Posts: 4,983 ✭✭✭Tea_Bag


    lads are you trying it with another monitor attached? If so, dual screen is disabled by default in windows. you have to 'push' extended displays before it'll turn on.


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    #1053
    Tar.Aldarion
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,092 Mod ✭✭✭✭Tar.Aldarion


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Unfortunately IPS response time is still far too slow for active 3D.

    Oh I see, antoher thing I forgot about my current monitor is that it has 0ms input lag. Which these definitely wouldn't have.


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    #1054
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Tar.Aldarion wrote: »
    Oh I see, antoher thing I forgot about my current monitor is that it has 0ms input lag. Which these definitely wouldn't have.

    For active 3D its not input lag you're worried about, its pixel response time - basically how quickly the pixels can change.

    For active 3D at 120Hz you need to show the left eye, and then very quickly change to the right eye. It should be as fast as possible so each eye gets to see a crisp static frame for a few ms.

    IPS just isn't fast enough currently. At 120Hz when you are supposed to see the 'left' frame in your left eye you would just see a blurry image transition that's still changing between the right and left.


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    #1055
    Gotham
    Registered Users Posts: 406 ✭✭Gotham


    Deleted User wrote: »
    IPS just isn't fast enough currently. At 120Hz when you are supposed to see the 'left' frame in your left eye you would just see a blurry image transition that's still changing between the right and left.

    That catleap 120hz model cannot use Nvidia 3d. But the reason is not due to IPS being too slow (it's 6ms, which is still faster than the 8.3ms required for 3D vision - 1000/120=8.3).

    The 2B cant use 3D because the interval between the frames are not suitable for it. If you'd like more info on this you should follow this thread.
    http://120hz.net/showthread.php?516-Project-Stereo-3D-(Nvidia-3D-Vision)-on-120Hz-Catleap-2B-Extreme
    The flaw is of course due to the fact it was never designed for 120hz, not that it's not possible.


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    #1056
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Gotham wrote: »
    That catleap 120hz model cannot use Nvidia 3d. But the reason is not due to IPS being too slow (it's 6ms, which is still faster than the 8.3ms required for 3D vision - 1000/120=8.3).

    6ms IPS response time is like a bajillion:1 contrast ratio. It's a pointless manufacturer spec.

    Under testing there's no IPS panel on the market with an average pixel response time even close to 6ms.


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    #1057
    Gotham
    Registered Users Posts: 406 ✭✭Gotham


    Deleted User wrote: »
    6ms IPS response time is like a bajillion:1 contrast ratio. It's a pointless manufacturer spec.

    Under testing there's no IPS panel on the market with an average pixel response time even close to 6ms.

    Actually it's not, I think youre getting confused with the Dynamic and Static contrast issue, which is an easy mistake to make and the advertising on the box preys on it. If you'd like me to explain why rather than Googling yourself I can do so.

    This monitor has 3.4ms response time (IPS)
    http://www.flatpanelshd.com/news.php?subaction=showfull&id=1339659860


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    #1058
    Bu33les
    Closed Accounts Posts: 66 ✭✭Bu33les


    Can the human eye even pick up this stuff?


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    #1059
    Gotham
    Registered Users Posts: 406 ✭✭Gotham


    Bu33les wrote: »
    Can the human eye even pick up this stuff?
    Frames per second / hz : yes.
    Input lag: Noticeable if you're doing fast things and if it's above 20-30ms.
    Response time: Yes, noticeable as ghosting down to about 1 or 2ms.


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    #1060
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Gotham wrote: »
    Actually it's not, I think youre getting confused with the Dynamic and Static contrast issue, which is an easy mistake to make and the advertising on the box preys on it. If you'd like me to explain why rather than Googling yourself I can do so.

    Im not confused, dynamic contrast is a pointless spec because figures like a 50,000,000:1 come from turning off the backlight to get a very low cd/m2 figure for black. Its pointless in the real world.

    You need to stop reading the manufacturer blurb and look at actual tests.


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    #1061
    Gotham
    Registered Users Posts: 406 ✭✭Gotham


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Im not confused, dynamic contrast is a pointless spec because figures like a 50,000,000:1 come from turning off the backlight to get a very low cd/m2 figure for black. Its pointless in the real world.

    You need to stop reading the manufacturer blurb and look at actual tests.

    Dynamic contrast is useless (and annoying) yes, but Static contrast is very damn important, and that's my point. Try looking at monitors with different static contrast and tell me those numbers mean nothing.


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    #1062
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Gotham wrote: »
    Dynamic contrast is useless (and annoying) yes, but Static contrast is very damn important, and that's my point. Try looking at monitors with different static contrast and tell me those numbers mean nothing.
    I never said they mean nothing. I said 'bajillion to one' - ie ridiculous figures that mean nothing in the real world.

    Same as 6ms response time for a Catleaps IPS. In the real world you can double that.


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    #1063
    Gotham
    Registered Users Posts: 406 ✭✭Gotham


    Deleted User wrote: »
    I never said they mean nothing. I said 'bajillion to one' - ie ridiculous figures that mean nothing in the real world.

    Same as 6ms response time for a Catleaps IPS. In the real world you can double that.

    The 6ms figure is a grey to grey response.
    The colour to colour response for these panels are 8ms (which is still less than 8.3). That is the real world figure and it's certainly not double. Please cite some info on this.

    Not every monitor has its dynamic contrast advertised instead of its static contrast, just don't buy one if its got a really high number - you know not to trust them.

    I'd also like to point out that there is a fundamental difference between these comparisons of "fake numbers". A manufacturer can get away with selling a product with a 5,000,000:1 contrast ratio because his equipment can actually measure that difference. The same cannot be done for response time, the best they can do is claim G2G response time instead of colour, but LG have claimed both G2G and C2C response times. The reason this is important is because it's plain illegal to sell a product with false claims, and whilst it's difficult to prove these response times, it's not impossible.


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    #1064
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Gotham wrote: »
    The 6ms figure is a grey to grey response.
    The colour to colour response for these panels are 8ms (which is still less than 8.3). That is the real world figure and it's certainly not double. Please cite some info on this.

    The average response time is approx 12ms real world.
    Here's a test that puts it at 11.4 and ive seen others that put it 12.x. Even Apple cite a 12ms response time for the same panel.

    http://down.playwares.com/xe/files/attach/images/53/880/046/fdac7f4b97dbe8c01002fb0bd7a3e0b8.jpg

    If you're gone from 6ms manufacturer claim to 12ms real world that's a massive disparity.

    If you're trying to do 120Hz active 3D then you want every single transition to be completed in under 8ms. Its not good enough having your g2g be 8ms if other transitions are taking 13 or 14ms. You get noticeable crosstalk.


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    #1065
    Gotham
    Registered Users Posts: 406 ✭✭Gotham


    Deleted User wrote: »
    The average response time is approx 12ms real world.
    Here's a test that puts it at 11.4 and ive seen others that put it 12.x. Even Apple cite a 12ms response time for the same panel.

    I did see that the Apple Cinema 27" are 12ms yes, and indeed it's probably the case for the Catleap. I'll try to find out more about the exact models of the panel for clarity, and why LG are advertising them as 6ms-8ms.

    The benchmark you linked is a measurement of 2 transitions, not 1. (which might be why the measurements you're giving me are double)
    GBG mean Grey-Black-Grey, thats not the same as Grey-to-Grey.
    I think this is where the mix up is happening.

    Edit: I see the G2G is 9ms on that chart.


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    #1066
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Bu33les wrote: »
    Can the human eye even pick up this stuff?

    Yeah. With active 3D, if your response time isn't fast enough then the left eye sees a frame that is still in the process of changing from the 'right eye' frame. Its called crosstalk and its one of the biggest complaints on active 3D. So for sure the human eye picks it up or else people wouldn't complain.

    For that specific use, you definitely want the best response time you can get. There's a reason why there is no active 3D IPS monitors on the market. IPS just isn't fast enough yet, although it does get better every year.


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    #1067
    Tea_Bag
    Registered Users Posts: 4,983 ✭✭✭Tea_Bag


    but the cinema display has a scalar which is where almost all the lag comes from. I'll find the review that did a great deal of testing and put it at 5ms. I notice ghosting on monitors (my TV being a prime example) and you certainly get none of it from the catleap. sure you could take a microscope and go frame by frame to find it, but in actual viewing/gaming, of which I do a lot, its not a problem.


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    #1068
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Tea_Bag wrote: »
    but the cinema display has a scalar which is where almost all the lag comes from.
    The scaler gives you input lag which is different from pixel response.


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    #1069
    cristobal
    Registered Users Posts: 6 ✭cristobal


    lads are you trying it with another monitor attached? If so, dual screen is disabled by default in windows. you have to 'push' extended displays before it'll turn on.

    I'm aware yes, like I said, windows has already detected the monitor, and even if I mirror/extend the display or create a new desktop- still nothing.

    I've been in contact with the seller on ebay, so worst case scenario, I'll be sending it back to Korea... awesome...


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    #1070
    Sir Digby Chicken Caesar
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 23,556 ✭✭✭✭Sir Digby Chicken Caesar


    yeah but im pretty sure most of the sellers cover postage back so you'll have a new screen in a week or two

    oh wait, xmas.

    maybe a few days longer, but it oughtn't cost you anything


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    #1071
    centa
    Registered Users Posts: 57 ✭✭centa


    Tar.Aldarion wrote: »
    Would the 120hz catleap work with nvidia vision 3d?

    If I don't get Dcully's, what do people make of this one? http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-YAMAKASI-CATLEAP-Q270-SEi-White-27-LED-S-IPS-2560X1440-6ms-DVI-D-PC-Monitor-/140864588158?pt=Computer_Monitors&hash=item20cc2f097e

    If I can get 3d on the 120hz one, I could wait for another batch of them. 120hz is hard to leave...

    There appears to be a different dead pixel policy on this sei model

    More than 2 dead pixel in centre (5) faulty
    More than 20 dead pixel in side area Faulty


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    #1072
    Heretofore
    Registered Users Posts: 60 ✭✭Heretofore


    Tea_Bag wrote: »
    lads are you trying it with another monitor attached? If so, dual screen is disabled by default in windows. you have to 'push' extended displays before it'll turn on.

    Yup tried it both ways. Interestingly today i was getting a solid green and back light on the monitor instead of the flashing green and sporadic flicker of back light. Anyway Green-sum has been contacted and i've sent the photos etc he asked for. Halh dreading them getting the monitor back and there being nothing wrong, just something i stupidly forgot to do...

    Looks like im going to have to have a social christmas then Digby!

    Half thinking of getting the refund and buying a dell, dont think i could deal with another faulty monitor.


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    #1073
    T-b0n3
    Registered Users Posts: 3,459 ✭✭✭T-b0n3


    I am now the proud owner of Dcully's Catleap.

    Just hooked it up to my current PC and it works and it looks amazing!

    Have a new PC ordered and on its way to go with it.

    Another happy catleap owner! One dead green pixel which is a little annoying, but can only see it on certain backgrounds.


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    #1074
    Sir Digby Chicken Caesar
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 23,556 ✭✭✭✭Sir Digby Chicken Caesar


    T-b0n3 wrote: »
    I am now the proud owner of Dcully's Catleap.

    Just hooked it up to my current PC and it works and it looks amazing!

    Have a new PC ordered and on its way to go with it.

    Another happy catleap owner! One dead green pixel which is a little annoying, but can only see it on certain backgrounds.

    you'll forget all about it in a couple of months


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    #1075
    Tar.Aldarion
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,092 Mod ✭✭✭✭Tar.Aldarion


    T-b0n3 wrote: »
    I am now the proud owner of Dcully's Catleap.

    Just hooked it up to my current PC and it works and it looks amazing!

    Have a new PC ordered and on its way to go with it.

    Another happy catleap owner! One dead green pixel which is a little annoying, but can only see it on certain backgrounds.
    Enjoy, that's a stuck pixel not dead, maybe you can fix it.

    centa wrote: »
    There appears to be a different dead pixel policy on this sei model

    More than 2 dead pixel in centre (5) faulty
    More than 20 dead pixel in side area Faulty
    What is the normal policy? 20 is a **** load


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    #1076
    Tea_Bag
    Registered Users Posts: 4,983 ✭✭✭Tea_Bag


    Tar.Aldarion wrote: »
    Enjoy, that's a stuck pixel not dead, maybe you can fix it.



    What is the normal policy? 20 is a **** load
    5 and/or 1 in the middle.


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    #1077
    Tar.Aldarion
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,092 Mod ✭✭✭✭Tar.Aldarion


    Much better. Was it the sei versions just, where di you see that info? /looks


    These seem to be the best value, the achieva shimians atm http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-ACHIEVA-Shimian-QH270-Lite-27-LED-Quad-HD-DVI-2560x1440-16-9-6ms-PC-Monitor-/110833856200?pt=Computer_Monitors&hash=item19ce366ec8

    Might get that, what you think?

    These sellers often accept offers too, but ti doesn't say what the offer was.


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    #1078
    Sir Digby Chicken Caesar
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 23,556 ✭✭✭✭Sir Digby Chicken Caesar


    they're all the same bar pixel policy which is a seller thing and the stands which is a brand thing

    i guess the single dvi/multi thing too


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    #1079
    Tea_Bag
    Registered Users Posts: 4,983 ✭✭✭Tea_Bag


    nothing wrong with the shimians. i got the catleap purely for the potential OC to 100hz+ in the future. none of the other will do it.


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    #1080
    Tar.Aldarion
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,092 Mod ✭✭✭✭Tar.Aldarion


    Can they do 100+? i was jsut reading OC and they were saying they couldn't unless I got the 120hz.net 2b version. Why is it in the future that you can OC it. If I cn get one that I get get that high for an ok price I want it. 120hz is a mile better than 60-75 that I would have been used to. It's just another thing that really enhances clarity. For instance I like this TN 120hz monitor much better than the dell u2312 ips at work.


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    #1081
    Tea_Bag
    Registered Users Posts: 4,983 ✭✭✭Tea_Bag


    theyre looking for someone to manufacture the PCB that allows it. its a simple transplant, as the PCB is about the size of a credit card. it has to be reverse engineered, highly illegal etc etc so theyre looking for a factory in china.


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