Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 11/12 (End of March 2012 onwards)

NukaCola

cantgetright wrote: »

Ive seen so many keepers since Bruce that Iam sure that Pepe is the most consistent, sure he made a few mistakes but I think we must stick by him. I was happy before kickoff with the team selection, cant blame Kenny..
Only changes i might of had was Kuyt for Downing or Bellers

Why not. He didnt change things quickly enough, and didnt play Carroll when he was on form. Jeez, even bringing him on at half time might have made the difference

daithijjj

The owners never wanted Kenny for 3 years, thats why the deal had to be hammered out over a period of time. But it was understandable from everyone's point of view. Lets wait and see what happens re a new DOF, maybe they want him to work better with Kenny, maybe they want him to scout out a new name to be the manager.

No complaints about the result. Spearing is a puppy in a dogfight, will never be anything else. At the same time, Reina and particularly Enrique had shockers.

Im hopefull for Henderson in the middle, i think he will only improve given time, turns 22 soon.

Carroll has been great recently, the visit to Tyneside did him the world of good, some closure, hopefully brings it into next season.

Out. (or off the books)

Maxi
Kuyt
Aurelio
Cole
Aquilani

for starters.

In.

A centre mid that pushes Adam/Spearing down the pecking order and to play with Lucas.

A real right winger, not a fu**in striker convert or a centre mid convert (or Mussolini.)

A fox in the box.

We need that at minimum to get back into CL.

Reina needs to wake up or be sold, had his worst season.

Enrique is playing like a player who has no competition for his place, this Toreador approach to his play is getting on my tits. Pass or cross the ball, nobody has a fkin clue what he is going to do. I expect checkers football from a left back not chess.

G.K.

Ardent wrote: »

Dalglish really f*cked up by not signing a defensive midfielder. Not only should he have signed one in the summer transfer window, he should defo have signed one in the winter window after the season-ending injury to Lucas.

Lucas, while having a very good start to the season by his standards, has been a medicore player for most of his Liverpool career and I think we need a quality signing in that position.

You would be hard pressed to find a better DM than Lucas, provided he returns to his pre-injury level. There simply aren't many out there. Forget the start to his career at pool. Plenty of people didn't start off brilliantly but go off to have stellar careers.

Sappy404

Big picture, Kenny needs to step down, we need to replace Spearing (and if they're leaving) Kuyt, Maxi and Aurelio, and we need FSG to either build a stadium or sell the club to someone who will. This would also have been my opinion if we'd won by the way.

Mr Alan

Funny aul game football.

Most didn't want Carroll to start.

Most wanted pretty much the exact line up & formation we played in first half.

Yet Kenny ****ed it up apparently.

IMO, Kenny started with the team I wanted in the formation I wanted but Gerrard was ****e & Enrique was ****e. I had no issues with our second half performance tbh & Andy Carroll continues to show what a ****ing player he can be.

G.K.

Mr Alan wrote: »

Funny aul game football.

Most didn't want Carroll to start.

Most wanted pretty much the exact line up & formation we played in first half.

Yet Kenny ****ed it up apparently.

IMO, Kenny started with the team I wanted in the formation I wanted but Gerrard was ****e & Enrique was ****e. I had no issues with our second half performance tbh & Andy Carroll continues to show what a ****ing player he can be.

Gerrard should have pushed on, he did it almost never.

delw

Andy Carroll wrote: »

Out of interest, anyone know what this is meant to be?

...

You tell us :pac:

Mr Alan

Ardent wrote: »

Lucas, while having a very good start to the season by his standards, has been a medicore player for most of his Liverpool career and I think we need a quality signing in that position.

Hahahahahahaha

You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about in relation to Lucas.

Jesus Wept

delw wrote: »

You tell us :pac:

No idea, I was drunk.

anirishlad

Kenny plays carrol "wtf get him off hes a donkey!!"

Kenny plays gerrard and suarez "get carroll on suarez is isolated"

Kenny plays spearing "hes crap if i was kenny i would have bought a new defensive midfielder because clearly the manager decides who liverpool sign"

:pac:

murpho999

Can somebody please tell me how most people feel that the starting line-up before kick up was correct (Nobody was calling for Carroll to start) but after the game Dalglish made a mess of it and should resign?

Hate how nowadays it's always the manager's fault and not the players?

Also, could you not just admit that maybe Chelsea are the better team as evidenced by their league position and place in Champion's League final?

Mr Alan

G.K. wrote: »

Gerrard should have pushed on, he did it almost never.

I blame Gerrard for that, I've no doubt he was meant to be playing just off Suarez. His desire to be at the centre of things constantly resulted in him falling back far far too deep.

Grayditch

anirishlad wrote: »

Kenny plays carrol "wtf get him off hes a donkey!!"

Kenny plays gerrard and suarez "get carroll on suarez is isolated"

Kenny plays spearing "hes crap if i was kenny i would have bought a new defensive midfielder because clearly the manager decides who liverpool sign"

:pac:

This isn't as clever as you think it is. A lot of people agree here that Carroll has been in great form, and very hungry, so that's why these people wanted him on today. He got slated up until now because he wasn't working in the team, but he changed, as did people's feelings about him.

Finical

The main problem for me was Henderson, Spearing and Downing. All of whom are afraid to take responsibility and move the ball forward, I wouldn't blame Spearing for this as much as it isn't his job, but yeah he was poor today.

Johnson looks much more composed when Kuyt is in front of him as he knows Dirk will back track if he's going forward.

Would have preferred Maxi and Kuyt to start today. I feel Bellamy and Downing would have been better options to come off the bench too.

G.K.

Mr Alan wrote: »

I blame Gerrard for that, I've no doubt he was meant to be playing just off Suarez. His desire to be at the centre of things constantly resulted in him falling back far far too deep.

That's certainly a valid viewpoint, one I hadn't weighed up. That until ~33 mins or so when Pool went 4-4-2 and Gerrard was part of the midfield 2.

mav79

No-one knows how the players are going to perform until they step out on the pitch. On paper the team looked ok but after 15 minutes you could see things were not working. A good strong manager should be able to see this too and have the balls to make changes. I'm not a fan of Mourinho but i've seen him make changes after 15 minutes into games when they were needed. There is a big difference between having confidence in your players and being stubborn.

mike65

murpho999 wrote: »

Can somebody please tell me how most people feel that the starting line-up before kick up was correct (Nobody was calling for Carroll to start) but after the game Dalglish made a mess of it and should resign?

Hate how nowadays it's always the manager's fault and not the players?

Also, could you not just admit that maybe Chelsea are the better team as evidenced by their league position and place in Champion's League final?

I won't speak for anyone else, starting with Downing while predictable wasn't right and Henderson was also questionable.

Chelsea were better as they were not carrying passengers to speak of, that said they weren't great either.

Mr Alan wrote: »

I blame Gerrard for that, I've no doubt he was meant to be playing just off Suarez. His desire to be at the centre of things constantly resulted in him falling back far far too deep.

Gerrard dropping back was really about trying to protect/fill the middle, I'd say that if Lucas had been playing then he'd have played higher.

Jesus Wept

murpho999 wrote: »

Can somebody please tell me how most people feel that the starting line-up before kick up was correct (Nobody was calling for Carroll to start) but after the game Dalglish made a mess of it and should resign?

Hate how nowadays it's always the manager's fault and not the players?

Also, could you not just admit that maybe Chelsea are the better team as evidenced by their league position and place in Champion's League final?

Not true.

Slimity

Trying to detatch myself from the disappointment of losing today isn't easy, but a couple of points were emphasised today that sum up most of our season.

Kenny and the management team don't have a blueprint of how he/they want the team to play and line up. There seems to be a a lack of a system that is understood by individual players and some look lost on the pitch both in and out of possession.

Secondly, apart from a coherent system, we simply do not have enough quality players in our team. This is down to poor recruitment and a lot of the "new" purchases do not have the requisite technical attributes and in some cases mental attributes.

A lot will have to change to rectify the situation, starting with much more astute recruitment and probably a change of manager/coaching team. I really hope FSG are up for making the tough decisions and dipping into their pockets aswell.

whatawaster

I'm not sure what to do in the summer.

Yes - we need a new striker, no doubt about it. But do we spend 20 million on one, or gamble on a younger striker?

I honestly think a central midfielder and winger are a much bigger priority.

He's still not a goal-scorer, but Andy Carroll has been excellent for a few months now.

Mr Alan

mike65 wrote: »

Gerrard dropping back was really about trying to protect/fill the middle, I'd say that if Lucas had been playing then he'd have played higher.

But by dropping back so deep, it was to the detriment of the team performance?

I agree re: Lucas, the loss of him really cannot be overstated enough for how our season has panned out.

Drumpot

murpho999 wrote: »

Can somebody please tell me how most people feel that the starting line-up before kick up was correct (Nobody was calling for Carroll to start) but after the game Dalglish made a mess of it and should resign?

Hate how nowadays it's always the manager's fault and not the players?

Also, could you not just admit that maybe Chelsea are the better team as evidenced by their league position and place in Champion's League final?

You said it . . Same things happens with United when our own fans turn on fergie.

The manager picks the team consistantly for the season and should be judged at the end of season. Players come in and out of the team and are usually exempt from real criticism because its all put back on the manager. . Its pathetic.

What is funny is that people were saying that if kenny wins today it could make this a good season, certainly trophy wise, but now all of a sudden hes getting lambasted for starting with a team many fans wanted!

Footballers get away with far too much and can get away with any sh*t, while managers get sacked and personally attacked if their players underperform.

Liverpool won one cup, runner up in another and were no closer to the CL then last season. I dont think you can judge a manager on one season. I admit, I dont have much love for LFC or Kenny, but what exactly do fans expect after 1 full season in charge ? I dont get this side of football, few managers can come into a 6th place team and change them into a winning side overnight . .

Mr Alan

whatawaster wrote: »

I'm not sure what to do in the summer.

Yes - we need a new striker, no doubt about it. But do we spend 20 million on one, or gamble on a younger striker?

I honestly think a central midfielder and winger are a much bigger priority.

He's still not a goal-scorer, but Andy Carroll has been excellent for a few months now.

I'd go with the winger & midfielder tbh and try bring in a young third choice to fight for a place in the team.

mike65

Slimity wrote: »

Trying to detatch myself from the disappointment of losing today isn't easy, but a couple of points were emphasised today that sum up most of our season.

Kenny and the management team don't have a blueprint of how he/they want the team to play and line up. There seems to be a a lack of a system that is understood by individual players and some look lost on the pitch both in and out of possession.

Secondly, apart from a coherent system, we simply do not have enough quality players in our team. This is down to poor recruitment and a lot of the "new" purchases do not have the requisite technical attributes and in some cases mental attributes.

A lot will have to change to rectify the situation, starting with much more astute recruitment and probably a change of manager/coaching team. I really hope FSG are up for making the tough decisions and dipping into their pockets aswell.

This is the biggest failing for me, last season working with Rafa/Hodgson players (bar Suarez) he settled on a basic system and it worked well, then all the good work was wrecked buying a mishmash of players none of whom seemed to be been bought with a firm system in mind - some might say he was looking to be flexible but the course of the season means clueless would appear a better description.

Cartman78

The result today should have no bearing on the future of Kenny Dalglish.

That decision should be quite easy to make by quickly glancing at the League Table.

He did a great job in steadying the ship last season, but this season has been a total shambles. His tactics and strategy (ie. most of the game today) are outdated and if he stays around after this summer, he will only further tarnish his reputation & legacy

Mr Alan

To say a manager like Kenny Dalglish is clueless is, quite frankly, idiotic

LOL at the above post, while I accept that many think he should go, the criticism that his tactics are 'outdated' are bewildering

djPSB

I think after today people might finally realise that Spearing is not good enough. It's a pity that it took a massive mistake in a Cup final for people to finally realise it. Championship player.

Delighted again for Carroll. He has really shown in the last few weeks that he has the balls to stand up and be counted. Fair play to him, he has taken his fair share of abuse over the last 18 months from both Liverpool supporters and opposition supporters and he has chipped in with a few important goals over the course of the season. It would be great if a bit of his heart and determination could rub off on Downing.

Gerrard didn't have much of an impact, but it's hard to have a massive influence on a game when playing so deep.

Suarez was very poor I thought and although he was in isolation for periods, his touch and general play were off today.

It's time to start planning for next season.

NukaCola

We have 49 Points in the League.....this is not about putting Kenny down or a knee jerk reaction, on the balance of the whole season LFC have been rubbish. Two cup finals dont change a god damned thing. Kenny brought in the players, kenny picks the team, kenny picks the tactics, kenny is the manager and he's to blame.Sure the players didnt perform as well as they could have throughout the season, but thats football. Thats how it works.

You can defend it all you want but since Kenny has come back he hasnt done enough. Plain and simple.

noodler

Mr Alan wrote: »

To say a manager like Kenny Dalglish is clueless is, quite frankly, idiotic

Okay, he has been clueless with Liverpool in his second spell.

Feel better?

I note once again your double standards.

You want everyone to recognise Kenny has had other managerial jobs (albeit years ago) but were perfectly happy to forget about Roy's achievements outside of Liverpool.

murpho999

Cartman78 wrote: »

The result today should have no bearing on the future of Kenny Dalglish.

That decision should be quite easy to make by quickly glancing at the League Table.

He did a great job in steadying the ship last season, but this season has been a total shambles. His tactics and strategy (ie. most of the game today) are outdated and if he stays around after this summer, he will only further tarnish his reputation & legacy

Explain to me how it was outdated?

murpho999

I though Keegan on ESPN earlier made a good point.

He said for him that Liverpool's glass is half full.

I think most people who come on the internet to complain are 'glass half empty' type of people.

Mr Alan

noodler wrote: »

Okay, he has been clueless with Liverpool in his second spell.

Feel better?

No. Still idiotic I'm afraid.

Last season, he was excellent. Up to Jan this year he was decent. Since Jan he has performed poorly. At no point has he been clueless. He is a man whose forgotten more about football, players, tactics etc than the likes of you could ever dream of knowing.

Cartman78

Mr Alan wrote: »

To say a manager like Kenny Dalglish is clueless is, quite frankly, idiotic

LOL at the above post, while I accept that many think he should go, the criticism that his tactics are 'outdated' are bewildering

Seriously?? Like I said...go look at the League Table. See if you are still LOLing after that

NukaCola

Drumpot wrote: »

You said it . . Same things happens with United when our own fans turn on fergie.

Fergie has proved time and time again he can still do it at the top level. Kenny hasn't and thats the difference. Many here wont like to here it but there is a big difference.

Same could be said of Rafa with regards your point. Rafa was hounded out, despite prooving he could bring LFC success, Kenny hasn't. IMO Rafa will be by far the bigger loss to LFC than Kenny will be.

mike65

Mr Alan is prone to the cult of personality, he was just the same with Rafa.

NukaCola

murpho999 wrote: »

I though Keegan on ESPN earlier made a good point.

He said for him that Liverpool's glass is half full.

I think most people who come on the internet to complain are 'glass half empty' type of people.

Are you serious.....

noodler

Mr Alan wrote: »

No. Still idiotic I'm afraid.

Last season, he was excellent. Up to Jan this year he was decent. Since Jan he has performed poorly. At no point has he been clueless. He is a man whose forgotten more about football, players, tactics etc than the likes of you could ever dream of knowing.

You are pathetic.

Your failings as a poster become apparent when somebody (or even the majority) disagrees with you.

I wonder how much you actually know about playing football - for all your posturing.

Jesus Wept

Mr Alan wrote: »

He is a man whose forgotten more about football, players, tactics etc than the likes of you could ever dream of knowing.

You say that like it's a good thing.

Mr Alan

noodler wrote: »

You want everyone to recognise Kenny has had other managerial jobs (albeit years ago) but were perfectly happy to forget about Roy's achievements outside of Liverpool.

Roy is a decent manager at a particular level. He does well at that level. I never took that away from him. Kenny's managerial abilities are on a different planet to Roy. You don't believe me? Have a look at their managerial honours.

noodler

Mr Alan wrote: »

Roy is a decent manager at a particular level. He does well at that level. I never took that away from him.

Revisionist stuff there Al.

Deluded if your implication is that Kenny's current managerial level is with Liverpool.

murpho999

NukaCola wrote: »

Fergie has proved time and time again he can still do it at the top level. Kenny hasn't and thats the difference. Many here wont like to here it but there is a big difference.

Same could be said of Rafa with regards your point. Rafa was hounded out, despite prooving he could bring LFC success, Kenny hasn't. IMO Rafa will be by far the bigger loss to LFC than Kenny will be.

Before Fergie won the league there were huge calls for him to be sacked.

in 1989 Utd finished 11th in the league before getting the team to climb to the title within 3 seasons.

Good managers can have a hard time too you know.

murpho999

NukaCola wrote: »

Are you serious.....

Yes I'm serious.....that's what Keegan said.

mike65

Ach! This is silly, Hodgson has been a professional jobbing manager for hire (with loads of titles in minor/modest leagues),

Managerial
Halmstad
Allsvenskan (2): 1976, 1979
Malmö FF
Swedish Football Champions (2): 1986, 1988
Allsvenskan (5): 1985, 1986, 1987, 1988, 1989
Svenska Cupen (2): 1985–86, 1988–89
Inter Milan
UEFA Cup Runner-Up (1): 1997
Copenhagen
Danish Superliga (1): 2000–01
Danish Super Cup (1): 2001
Fulham
UEFA Europa League Runner-Up (1): 2010

Dalglish took over a dynasty and did well to carry that on smoothly before quitting, then took on a bankroll number with Blackburn, messed up at Newcastle after a good start, and is now doing something comparable at Liverpool.

Mr Alan

mike65 wrote: »

Mr Alan is prone to the cult of personality, he was just the same with Rafa.

My stance on Rafa has been 100000% vindicated since his dismissal. As evidenced by 1) the circus we became when he left & 2) even many of his critics are now calling out for him to be reinstated.

And I'd rather be prone to defending Liverpool greats like Rafa & Dalglish than prone to knee jerky lunacy. Like say.... calling for us to sack Rafa & poach Mick McCarthy from Wolves.

Andy Carroll wrote: »

You say that like it's a good thing.

I knew someone would take it that way I think you know what I meant!

NukaCola

murpho999 wrote: »

Yes I'm serious.....that's what Keegan said.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/tables

Glass is nowhere near half full mate, not by a long shot

noodler

mike65 wrote: »

Ach! This is silly, Hodgson has been a professional jobbing manager for hire (with loads of titles in minor/modest leagues),

Managerial
Halmstad
Allsvenskan (2): 1976, 1979
Malmö FF
Swedish Football Champions (2): 1986, 1988
Allsvenskan (5): 1985, 1986, 1987, 1988, 1989
Svenska Cupen (2): 1985–86, 1988–89
Inter Milan
UEFA Cup Runner-Up (1): 1997
Copenhagen
Danish Superliga (1): 2000–01
Danish Super Cup (1): 2001
Fulham
UEFA Europa League Runner-Up (1): 2010

Dalglish took over a dynasty and did well to carry that on smoothly before quitting, then took on a bankroll number with Blackburn, messed up at Newcastle after a good start, and is now doing something comparable at Liverpool.

Yes but its important to remember that Roy Hodgson has forgotten more about football than the likes of Alan can ever hope to know....


Did I do it right Alan?

NukaCola

murpho999 wrote: »

Before Fergie won the league there were huge calls for him to be sacked.

in 1989 Utd finished 11th in the league before getting the team to climb to the title within 3 seasons.

Good managers can have a hard time too you know.

The two are non-comparable i'm afraid......

murpho999

NukaCola wrote: »

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/tables

Glass is nowhere near half full mate, not by a long shot

I really disagree.

I think we're a couple of signings from getting back in the Champions league places.
A few more goals (which is what we have lacked this season) then our position would be higher.

I find it amazing that people after one season expect Kenny to be wining the league.

NukaCola

Mr Alan wrote: »

My stance on Rafa has been 100000% vindicated since his dismissal. As evidenced by 1) the circus we became when he left & 2) even many of his critics are now calling out for him to be reinstated.

And I'd rather be prone to defending Liverpool greats like Rafa & Dalglish than prone to knee jerky lunacy. Like say.... calling for us to sack Rafa & poach Mick McCarthy from Wolves.



I knew someone would take it that way I think you know what I meant!

Is it really lunacy to accept that Kenny is finished at LFC as a manager after that absolute embaressment of a season. Wake up Al.

Drumpot

NukaCola wrote: »

Fergie has proved time and time again he can still do it at the top level. Kenny hasn't and thats the difference. Many here wont like to here it but there is a big difference.

Same could be said of Rafa with regards your point. Rafa was hounded out, despite prooving he could bring LFC success, Kenny hasn't. IMO Rafa will be by far the bigger loss to LFC than Kenny will be.

I remember around 2003 when United fans turned on Sir Alex for less then what has happened to Kenny this season. I used to be at loggerheads with my own supporters about whether or not fergie should be allowed to remain at the club (kleberson, djemba, bellion, miller -albeit free).

The problem for Kenny is that modern football fans and clubs do not have much loyalty anymore. I didnt think Hodgson got much of an opportunity at the club, but I dont think getting rid of Kenny is anything other then thinking two wrongs make a right.

2 Full seasons is the minimum that any manager should be judged , unless a team has seriously taken steps backwards.

(Cant believe Im having to defend Kenny to his own fans!). One word springs to mind - cantona. Let United and fergie down the season he was banned for 8 months. we lost the league and fergusons stuck with him to the hills. Ok he paid us back in spades, but it took time.

Suarez incident cannot be underestimated what effect that had on the manager or the team. It certainly didnt seem to galvanise the team in the desired Us v them motivation a manager would want. I would guess it had a negative impact on the dressingroom (at best). Remember, there are players at all clubs that are completely professional and just want to win things, they wouldnt of been happy at the Evra-Suarez sideshow (on both sides).

Fergie announcing he was going to quit. Fergie v Magnier/mcmanus. any manager announcing they are leaving before the end of the season, these have psychological impacts on the teams even if they shouldnt. Look at chelsea, same players, completely differant proposition. My point is that players react to differant situations in differant ways and the Suarez incident worked against Kenny IMO.