Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 11/12 (End of March 2012 onwards)

OwaynOTT

Andy Carroll wrote: »

The following people are to be released from their captors: In Northern Ireland, the seven members of the New Provo Front. In Canada, the five imprisoned leaders of Liberte de Quebec... In Sri Lanka, the nine members of the Asian Dawn movement.

I've been baffled by posts, a common situation for those even loosely connected to Liverpool FC, but that one has be stumped.

Help a guy out here Andy

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Andy Carroll wrote: »

The following people are to be released from their captors: In Northern Ireland, the seven members of the New Provo Front. In Canada, the five imprisoned leaders of Liberte de Quebec... In Sri Lanka, the nine members of the Asian Dawn movement.

You read about them in Time Magazine?

OwaynOTT

rarnes1 wrote: »

Losing Lucas was massive this season.

Really hope he's 100% next year, whoever the manager is. The lad's a gem.

I'm worried that Lucas and Suarez become the new Gerrard and Torres. We need genuine real leather quality to back them up.

Jesus Wept

OwaynOTT wrote: »

I've been baffled by posts, a common situation for those even loosely connected to Liverpool FC, but that one has be stumped.

Help a guy out here Andy

Hans Gruber oot Die Hard.

OwaynOTT

OwaynOTT wrote: »

I'm worried that Lucas and Suarez become the new Gerrard and Torres. We need genuine real leather quality to back them up.

Lucas is a completely different player than Gerrard, completely

Torres and Suarez are not similar either.

But yeah, we need a good ball player with Lucas and a top striker with Suarez.

OwaynOTT

Andy Carroll wrote: »

Hans Gruber oot Die Hard.

Can't read spoilers on my phone. Die hard been out a while surely its okay to spoil it.

OwaynOTT

rarnes1 wrote: »

Lucas is a completely different player than Gerrard, completely

Torres and Suarez are not similar either.

But yeah, we need a good ball player with Lucas and a top striker with Suarez.

Different but similiar in how we might become to rely on them too heavily to perform at a high level to make up for the dross in the team.

OwaynOTT

OwaynOTT wrote: »

Can't read spoilers on my phone. Die hard been out a while surely its okay to spoil it.

Directors cut

Jesus Wept

OwaynOTT wrote: »

Can't read spoilers on my phone. Die hard been out a while surely its okay to spoil it.

It's just a big picture of our Hans being the boss.

K-9

Mr Alan wrote: »

Funny aul game football.

Most didn't want Carroll to start.

Most wanted pretty much the exact line up & formation we played in first half.

Yet Kenny ****ed it up apparently.

IMO, Kenny started with the team I wanted in the formation I wanted but Gerrard was ****e & Enrique was ****e. I had no issues with our second half performance tbh & Andy Carroll continues to show what a ****ing player he can be.

I wanted Carroll but knew Kenny wouldn't pick him, he'd want more "bodies" in the midfield and that was fine. Carroll should have been on at half time for me as the danger was we'd concede another or he'd bring him on after 75 minutes or something.

I would never, ever play Downing and Enrique on the left, ever, ever again. The only 2 people who can't predict what they are going to do are, Enrique and Downing, the 2 of them fecking stood beside each other and Suarez took a shot in the second half.

Robinson needs to be played more next season as Enrique is just too predictable attacking wise. We need Lucas to stay fit and to get a proper partner for him. Carra needs to be 4th choice and Coates 3rd CB. We need a left and right winger and Gerrard playing as an AM.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

OwaynOTT wrote: »

Can't read spoilers on my phone. Die hard been out a while surely its okay to spoil it.

You don't need to - it should have been image tags, not spoiler tags.

Enrique had a mare today, from the whistle. The goal aside he was awful.

Playing Carra with Agger LB might not have been a worse option after all

PFL

OwaynOTT wrote: »

Question.
Are Kenny's signing poor or is it that Kenny hasn't utilised them to their best abilities?
Discuss.

Have to lOok at Carrolls handling. Plays well, relatively speaking, dropped. Played well, genuinely, dropped!

Downing on wing with ball. Players in box none. Andy on bench.

Adam without Lucas good idea? Probably not. With? Has got goals and created.

Agree with you - ten minutes into the first half crosses pinging in, Chelsea regained pocession. Chelsea's defence are big, strong & TALL men - we had little luis on his own isolated - made no sense.

Andy's been underused and probably mis-managed for the last four months, the part parrells between him and the comments Reina made about Torres at Chelsea are quite similar.

delw

OwaynOTT wrote: »

Ah well. Hurts to lose but it doesn't really change anything.

Spearing is willing, very willing and if some other players had his willingness we'd be better off and yes I'm talking about Henderson, but ultimately not good enough.

Downing isn't up to it. Couple of opportunities to play balls along the ground to Suarez today but cut back and did nothing with it. Suarez didn't really play poorly, he didn't get any decent balls. Downing is a toothless winger who rarely takes on his man, rarely plays a telling cross and rarely has a good game let alone an excellent one.

Henderson has excellent techinical ability, can play telling passes at times and has youth on his side. Their the positives but he really needs to impose himself on the game and get a bit more aggressive. Up to recently I had no idea he was over 6 foot! He too often goes missing in games but I think he will be a good to great player and he must show it next year or else the hook.

Enrique isn't great. Woeful in the opposition half and is no more solid at the back than Johnson and he doesn't have the attacking abilities of him either. He's slow, of thought, and cumbersome in the ball past the halfway line and takes too long on the ball. Cuts back and instead of playing the ball he holds on and then plays, if he doesn't cut back again. We need a left back.

Reina is prone to mistakes but he always was we just didn't notice as much under Rafa. We had Lucas and Mascherano giving us a defensive steel in the middle. Chelsea cut through us too often today and had clean shots on goal. Reina is a very good keeper and does not need to be replaced just needs more protection. Or even more clinical finishing from our players up the field.

Carroll. Since Christmas he has slowly started to play and today he made a great impact and was so unlucky not to score twice. He needs to improve a lot more but as long as he puts in that sort of effort I'd be happy with him. He needs another striker to share the responsibility up front.

Gerrard shouldn't be played in the centre but the squad is limited and sometimes there is t a choice. We need to get to a point where we aren't reliant on him to come up with the goods in games.

We need a left back an attacking one for when we play weaker times.
Need a midfield partner for Lucas that can also step in replace Lucas if needed.
We need a quality winger.
We need a striker.
Could do with another creative forward attacking midfielder but can get by if funds are low. Replace Merilies.

We could probably do without another left back if Robinson can step in at times.

Kuyt, Maxi, Downing and Cole need to be sold and replaced with the above. Carragher needs to be phased out and Coates take his place as cover. Gerrard needs to play less or not to be relied on to be fit for a season. Shelvey and maybe Kelly need to go on loan at at least a top level championship team.

If Kenny stays on, the league form has to be very good by Christmas. We need to be in the too four or 1or 2 points behind it. Scoring and beating the poorer teams. None of this keepers and posts playing well. He needs to be ruthless as well with the players. Whether he stays or go doesn't bother me too much at the moment.

Selling them four players should free up at least 200,000 per week in wages that can be put to use for 3-4 new players and hopefully we have 30-50 million to strengthen. we need to get outs monies worth as well in the market. Look at Newcastle and Aresnal have been doing it for years. If we can't get the player for the right price move on to our next target. None of this name forgot price crap. Unfortunately this will be difficult as let's face it at the moment there's at least 5 teams ahead of us in terms of attractiveness.

And Aquaman needs to sorted for final as quick as possible in the summer. He either stuas or goes.

It's been a hard league season with moments of light in the cups but it can be turned around.
3-4 quality first teamers
Continue clearing the deadwood ala last summer
Give Keeny till Xmas or get a new manager in and back either with some funds.
Players need to put in more effort.

I've waited 20 years for the league and I can wait another 5, heck even 10, it we can get back competing for the top four next year and keep it up and show progress each year. Back which ever manager it is and maybe win one or two cups whilst we wait for the league.

**** I love LIverpool and appreciate the memorable times in the last 20 years. Champions league final twice and all them other cups. I can wait a bit longer.

Really thought we were going to win to day

Great post

mike65

OwaynOTT wrote: »

Question.
Are Kenny's signing poor or is it that Kenny hasn't utilised them to their best abilities?
Discuss.

Both, I said earlier Dalglish seemed to have bought with little coherence, Adam and Downing are in different ways small/medium club men the former is a big fish/small pond type (read Big Time Charlie) while the latter just hasn't found it within himself to rise to the occasion - I bet he'd be having a great season at Villa. Henderson has been abused by the manager. I said when he was bought "we'll hardly see much of him in the league this season" instead he's thrown in and expected to be up to speed playing as a winger Crazy handling of a potential talent.

Enrique seems to be coasting, that's a failure of motivation rather than talent spotting, Coates looks fine but has seen his progress stunted somewhat with Carra getting the nod too often.

Carroll of course is the headline grabber and of the signings he's the only one who has actually progressed this season but starting from such a low base one resists the need to put out bunting. At least we are seeing something more though. That said he gets picked and dropped in such a random fashion he isn't being helped much.

Liverpool is a confused hodge-podge of a side right now, quite lacking focus and I don't see anything to suggest the current manager is suddenly going to
find the essence of a vision around which to design a team.

wonderfullife

mike65 wrote: »

Ach! This is silly, Hodgson has been a professional jobbing manager for hire (with loads of titles in minor/modest leagues),

Managerial
Halmstad
Allsvenskan (2): 1976, 1979
Malmö FF
Swedish Football Champions (2): 1986, 1988
Allsvenskan (5): 1985, 1986, 1987, 1988, 1989
Svenska Cupen (2): 1985–86, 1988–89
Inter Milan
UEFA Cup Runner-Up (1): 1997
Copenhagen
Danish Superliga (1): 2000–01
Danish Super Cup (1): 2001
Fulham
UEFA Europa League Runner-Up (1): 2010

Dalglish took over a dynasty and did well to carry that on smoothly before quitting, then took on a bankroll number with Blackburn, messed up at Newcastle after a good start, and is now doing something comparable at Liverpool.

You forgot "abject failure at Celtic"

K-9

Mr Alan wrote: »

My stance on Rafa has been 100000% vindicated since his dismissal. As evidenced by 1) the circus we became when he left & 2) even many of his critics are now calling out for him to be reinstated.

And I'd rather be prone to defending Liverpool greats like Rafa & Dalglish than prone to knee jerky lunacy. Like say.... calling for us to sack Rafa & poach Mick McCarthy from Wolves.



I knew someone would take it that way I think you know what I meant!

Indeed, while I think the wisest move maybe for Kenny to move upstairs my worry is some fans would start calling for the new managers head within a few months. Kenny had the team on target for 4th around Xmas and people were doubting him then.

So Kenny moving aside might be best overall but I'd say we'll have the same calls for the new manager to go in 6 months time. That'll be 4 in 3 years.

daithijjj

Jayob10 wrote: »

If your stability theory is to be used then, how many trophies have they won in 7-8 years? compared to ourselves?

Stability is all well and good if you have the right man in place and there are signs of progress.

We just disagree on the main point of trusting Kenny with further major investment. Any other manager would not get cut as much slack, so much that they get the chance to spend big money once again to replace the big signings from last year.

What you have at Chelsea is a man who fell into a position as manager off the back of a club that is controlled by certain senior players who will all be retired very soon. Avram Grant got to a CL final!!!. Chelsea have spent heavily, vastly more sums than LFC in the grand scheme, even since our new owners came in and where are they?, every chance in the same Euro comp as us next year, we will see. Progress?

Now, you can say, well if AVB never came in they would be in CL places but the real issue for them is replacing old players who are cornerstones of the club, it could be argued half the team that played today wont be starting players in 18 months. The successful years they have had recently will be a very tough ask to replicate, there will be no more record losses of 165 mil euro on the team in 12 months as in mid 2000's, the return on that investment is coming to an end and it cannot be done again (we will have to see what teeth the FFPR actually have). None of the above is bitterness, its just cold hard fact as i see it.

Anyway. I dont really have an issue with Kenny getting another year, id put a significant wedge on the notion that he had no say at all on what we paid for players, he solely identified that he would be ok with them joining or was fully behind them but not the numbers paid. People always refer to the prices so lets not escape from it being an issue. IMHO, we should absolutely wait until a new DOF is in place, perhaps a 180 in xfer strategy this summer. Our owners are still 'green' to football but the sacking of Comolli is a definite sign of a fast learning curve.

Nobody knows what happened really with Comolli but he had a hugely influential say imo, far too much, on the face of it the owners are taking the blame for that. Football clubs, especially ones that were so neglected for years, but have definite ideals on whats acceptable, are not simply ready meals you can pop in a microwave and expect fine dining. I think our building process is merely at a stage in the stew where the first few ingredients have gone in the pot, it will fill your starving belly but it wont taste the best it can until you add a bit more and leave if for while. Sorry for the analogy but im old school, i dont want a new manager every 18 months and i dont want to be a club where a manager says "he wasn't my signing, he was the clubs signing" like AVB said.

That's not a club ethic i would ever want, trophies or no trophies. We have to remain patient, the owners gave us welcome candour in that regard with a 5 year plan, we overpaid for a few players, the man responsible is gone.

My only worry about Kenny (i only ever wanted him as interim) is occasions like at home to Arsenal, where he froze imho with the subs so late. Apart from that i see no point in change until you absolutely, positively have a man you 100% want to take over, no use changing for change sake. Id give it another 12 months with Kenny, learn from our supposed 'mistakes' with xfer fees, have a real sit down in the summer and make it be known to all that league position is king. Meanwhile, lets take stock of our rivals for 4th, will RVP stay with Arsenal if they dont make CL?, will Chelsea be 'roughing it' in the Europa league next year?, indeed if that happened would they attract the type of player to replace Terry/Lampard/Drogba etc in the next 12 months?. Lets see how Newcastle fair when they have to play 3 games a week instead of just league football for half the season.

Just putting it out there, tides turn quickly in football, for all we know 'arry could replace the hodge in 3 months and Bale/Modric be looking for a nice detatched outside Madrid or elsewhere. But there's one other thing im positive about, Kenny knows more than any of us what fans feel like with our league position this year. He may or may not have what it takes to take us forward, remains to be seen but im sure he knows when its time to walk. Might be in 2 games, might be next year. But when and if it happens, i expect it to be dignified and i expect our owners to have done the proper groundwork on the new guy, not kneejerk appointments.

mike65

wonderfullife wrote: »

You forgot "abject failure at Celtic"

Barnes was the manager at Celtic people seem to forget, Dalglish only stepped in for a couple of months when Digger got the sack.

K-9

rarnes1 wrote: »

Enrique had a mare today, from the whistle. The goal aside he was awful.

Playing Carra with Agger LB might not have been a worse option after all

It isn't something I'd have criticised Kenny for funnily enough, could see the logic.

Jesus Wept

K-9 wrote: »

Indeed, while I think the wisest move maybe for Kenny to move upstairs my worry is some fans would start calling for the new managers head within a few months. Kenny had the team on target for 4th around Xmas and people were doubting him then.

So Kenny moving aside might be best overall but I'd say we'll have the same calls for the new manager to go in 6 months time. That'll be 4 in 3 years.

Whatever about 4 in 3 years, it's not like Rafa's firing or Hodgson hiring were done by people who had a clue whatsoever. Same could be said for the hiring of Kenny tbh.

Jayob10

daithijjj wrote: »

What you have at Chelsea is a man who fell into a position as manager off the back of a club that is controlled by certain senior players who will all be retired very soon. Avram Grant got to a CL final!!!. Chelsea have spent heavily, vastly more sums than LFC in the grand scheme, even since our new owners came in and where are they?, every chance in the same Euro comp as us next year, we will see. Progress?

Now, you can say, well if AVB never came in they would be in CL places but the real issue for them is replacing old players who are cornerstones of the club, it could be argued half the team that played today wont be starting players in 18 months. The successful years they have had recently will be a very tough ask to replicate, there will be no more record losses of 165 mil euro on the team in 12 months as in mid 2000's, the return on that investment is coming to an end and it cannot be done again (we will have to see what teeth the FFPR actually have). None of the above is bitterness, its just cold hard fact as i see it.

Anyway. I dont really have an issue with Kenny getting another year, id put a significant wedge on the notion that he had no say at all on what we paid for players, he solely identified that he would be ok with them joining or was fully behind them but not the numbers paid. People always refer to the prices so lets not escape from it being an issue. IMHO, we should absolutely wait until a new DOF is in place, perhaps a 180 in xfer strategy this summer. Our owners are still 'green' to football but the sacking of Comolli is a definite sign of a fast learning curve.

Nobody knows what happened really with Comolli but he had a hugely influential say imo, far too much, on the face of it the owners are taking the blame for that. Football clubs, especially ones that were so neglected for years, but have definite ideals on whats acceptable, are not simply ready meals you can pop in a microwave and expect fine dining. I think our building process is merely at a stage in the stew where the first few ingredients have gone in the pot, it will fill your starving belly but it wont taste the best it can until you add a bit more and leave if for while. Sorry for the analogy but im old school, i dont want a new manager every 18 months and i dont want to be a club where a manager says "he wasn't my signing, he was the clubs signing" like AVB said.

That's not a club ethic i would ever want, trophies or no trophies. We have to remain patient, the owners gave us welcome candour in that regard with a 5 year plan, we overpaid for a few players, the man responsible is gone.

My only worry about Kenny (i only ever wanted him as interim) is occasions like at home to Arsenal, where he froze imho with the subs so late. Apart from that i see no point in change until you absolutely, positively have a man you 100% want to take over, no use changing for change sake. Id give it another 12 months with Kenny, learn from our supposed 'mistakes' with xfer fees, have a real sit down in the summer and make it be known to all that league position is king. Meanwhile, lets take stock of our rivals for 4th, will RVP stay with Arsenal if they dont make CL?, will Chelsea be 'roughing it' in the Europa league next year?, indeed if that happened would they attract the type of player to replace Terry/Lampard/Drogba etc in the next 12 months?. Lets see how Newcastle fair when they have to play 3 games a week instead of just league football for half the season.

Just putting it out there, tides turn quickly in football, for all we know 'arry could replace the hodge in 3 months and Bale/Modric be looking for a nice detatched outside Madrid or elsewhere. But there's one other thing im positive about, Kenny knows more than any of us what fans feel like with our league position this year. He may or may not have what it takes to take us forward, remains to be seen but im sure he knows when its time to walk. Might be in 2 games, might be next year. But when and if it happens, i expect it to be dignified and i expect our owners to have done the proper groundwork on the new guy, not kneejerk appointments.

Chelsea have been successful because of their core of players. Winners. Not because of constant chopping and changing of manager.

My point was that they have been successful despite this lack of managerial stability.

Football is about having good players. Do we have players with a winning mentality? No

What do you do in that case? You build a winning side. Has Kenny shown he has an eye for players with a winning mentality? No

Nobody is advocating sacking Kenny on a whim, this assumption that sacking him is kneejerk is a bit rich anyways. The season has been an abject failure, and talk of another shot at righting his wrongs is merely because of who he is.

I'd like to think the owners would weigh up the best possible options for the clubs future, think long term.

its going to come down to one very simple question, and thats whether the owners trust Kenny with the major investment it would take to make us competitive. Even as a top 6 club never mind a champions league team.

And i'm guessing they won't given the disaster he has made of last seasons signings. I certainly wouldn't, because if its a failure you have pissed away another 50million. I'd rather cut ties, and back a new manager who you have faith in for the long term.

As for Kenny knowing when its time to walk? Maybe he does. But he is a stubborn man too by all accounts.

I respect him as a man, but I'm not as enthused as some about his managerial record.

Even his record from the past.

K-9

Far more games next season with the EC, between than the Carling Cup I'd expect to see Coates, Robinson, Sterling and Shelvey getting more game time.

Areas light for cover are DM unless Spearing shows a big improvement, LB and a striker.

First team areas we lack are in a partner for Lucas, Adam is a squad option if Lucas is fit and RW. Carroll and Suarez are showing signs of a partnership and need to be played regularly.

Ideally I'd like a new CB but Coates deserves a chance to prove himself, as does Robinson. I think if Downing was given a specific job, that is be a winger, forget about Enrique, just get to the line and cross, he'd be more effective.

K-9

Andy Carroll wrote: »

Whatever about 4 in 3 years, it's not like Rafa's firing or Hodgson hiring were done by people who had a clue whatsoever. Same could be said for the hiring of Kenny tbh.

I can see the intense criticism unless we are actually 4th in 6 months time, under a new manager.

Strongbow10

K-9 wrote: »

Far more games next season with the EC, between than the Carling Cup I'd expect to see Coates, Robinson, Sterling and Shelvey getting more game time.

Areas light for cover are DM unless Spearing shows a big improvement, LB and a striker.

First team areas we lack are in a partner for Lucas, Adam is a squad option if Lucas is fit and RW. Carroll and Suarez are showing signs of a partnership and need to be played regularly.

Ideally I'd like a new CB but Coates deserves a chance to prove himself, as does Robinson. I think if Downing was given a specific job, that is be a winger, forget about Enrique, just get to the line and cross, he'd be more effective.

Would not at all be happy if that was our striker partnership going into next season, not at all.

Vudgie

Totally disappointed with the result but we just didn't play for 65 mins. The one main positive for me was Carroll, he single handily dragged us back into the game and through his actions and demeanour from his first minute showed that enormous potential that most of us know is there. He killed Terry from the first minute he was on. Some our other players could learn a thing or two from him regarding how to keep going when everyone/everything is going against you.

NukaCola

mike65 wrote: »

Barnes was the manager at Celtic people seem to forget, Dalglish only stepped in for a couple of months when Digger got the sack.

Did he not appoint Digger though?

LuckyLloyd

Sell Pep Reina, go with Doni and Jones and use the circa £10m to put towards player funds.

Flog Downing for the £8m or so someone will be silly enough to pay and put it towards player funds.

Insist Aqualani gives us a year and stick him in the reserves if he refuses.

Get Cole, Aurelio, Maxi off the books.

Use the wage space and circa £40m kitty to buy one striker and one winger.

Welcome back Lucas.

Squad depth:

Doni / Jones

Johnson / Kelly / Flanagan

Skrtel / Agger / Coates / Carragher

Enrique / Robinson

Gerrard / Aqua / Lucas / Adam / Shelvey / Spearing

Kuyt / Henderson / Bellers / Sterling / AN Other

Suarez / Carroll / AN Other

Focus all energies into every league game, and if the two signings work out and we don't suffer a Lucas type injury we're in the Champions League. Easy.

G.K.

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Sell Pep Reina, go with Doni and Jones and use the circa £10m to put towards player funds.

Flog Downing for the £8m or so someone will be silly enough to pay and put it towards player funds.

Insist Aqualani gives us a year and stick him in the reserves if he refuses.

Get Cole, Aurelio, Maxi off the books.

Use the wage space and circa £40m kitty to buy one striker and one winger.

Welcome back Lucas.

Squad depth:

Doni / Jones

Johnson / Kelly / Flanagan

Skrtel / Agger / Coates / Carragher

Enrique / Robinson

Gerrard / Aqua / Lucas / Adam / Shelvey / Spearing

Kuyt / Henderson / Bellers / Sterling / AN Other

Suarez / Carroll / AN Other

Focus all energies into every league game, and if the two signings work out and we don't suffer a Lucas type injury we're in the Champions League. Easy.

Doesn't have the CM depth I'm afraid.

daithijjj

Jayob10 wrote: »

Chelsea have been successful because of their core of players. Winners. Not because of constant chopping and changing of manager.

My point was that they have been successful despite this lack of managerial stability.

Football is about having good players. Do we have players with a winning mentality? No

What do you do in that case? You build a winning side. Has Kenny shown he has an eye for players with a winning mentality? No

Nobody is advocating sacking Kenny on a whim, this assumption that sacking him is kneejerk is a bit rich anyways. The season has been an abject failure, and talk of another shot at righting his wrongs is merely because of who he is.

I'd like to think the owners would weigh up the best possible options for the clubs future, think long term.

its going to come down to one very simple question, and thats whether the owners trust Kenny with the major investment it would take to make us competitive. Even as a top 6 club never mind a champions league team.

And i'm guessing they won't given the disaster he has made of last seasons signings. I certainly wouldn't, because if its a failure you have pissed away another 50million. I'd rather cut ties, and back a new manager who you have faith in for the long term.

As for Kenny knowing when its time to walk? Maybe he does. But he is a stubborn man too by all accounts.

I respect him as a man, but I'm not as enthused as some about his managerial record.

Even his record from the past.

Sure its because of core players, core players that cost mega money and it could be argued they should have won alot more but maybe they lost discipline because successive great managers havent been able or allowed to drift from that core, a core that does whatever it likes because the owner is 'schmoosing' them on a yacht whilst undermining managers left right and centre.

While you say they remain successful, it could be argued they havent won as much as they should have due to lack of discipline with their precious noses being put out joint. An absolute fortune has gone into that squad, more than our entire club was purchased for. Reckon Roman will be rosy with an FA cup and Europa league?.

We have 'winners', the manager is one of them, we just dont have enough of them. Its difficult to attract 'winners', they generally want a transplant into CL and vomit worthy wages. For all you know Kenny had several 'winners' lined up who simply would not sign for us.

I dont think the season has been an abject failure, we have played well but needed another striker, it was a mistake not getting one. We have played against a few keepers who have had their games of the season at Anfield and Joe Woodwork has had a blinder this year. We used to complain we couldnt create chances, now we are creating but not taking, sure, it was a mistake not getting a striker.

edit.....repeated a few points there, had a few soda pops tonight but the jist is there.

Kenny is trying to get us to play the game properly.

Personnel needs adjusting, not the manager. Imo.

LuckyLloyd

G.K. wrote: »

Doesn't have the CM depth I'm afraid.

Lucas / Gerrard / Aqualaini / Henderson backed up by Adam / Shelvey / Spearing would get the job done imo.

Revolution9

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Lucas / Gerrard / Aqualaini / Henderson backed up by Adam / Shelvey / Spearing would get the job done imo.

I would only retain faith in the ability of Lucas should any central midfield comprised of those players do battle with the likes of Song/Wilshere/Ramsay, Parker/Modric/Sandro/VDV, Mata/Ramires/Lampard and Cabaye/Tiote.

And even then, there's no guarantee Lucas will be quite the same player when he comes back from his injury.

LuckyLloyd

rarnes1 wrote: »

Kenny is trying to get us to play the game properly.

Personnel needs adjusting, not the manager. Imo.

Yep. If Kenny had started with the lineup we had on the pitch for the last quarter the same people complaining about our selection to start today would have flogged him over tactics and personnel.

He set us up as many people wanted us to be (indeed there were a number of posts expressing relief for the team selection before kickoff in the match thread). Not his fault that Reina decided to **** doorknobs, or that Downing couldn't kick snow off a rope, or that pretty much everyone else was average at best for the first hour.

Their first goal was all individual error, and the inability to put the ball in the net a second time for all that pressure just one of those things.

If Kenny is to go, it should be because he pays the price for squandering money on players nowhere near good enough. If he pays the price for signing Downing (the worst signing in the club's history imo), failing to address a key weakness in the last transfer window and because he is not to be trusted with money going forward then fine.

But don't pretend the football we're trying to play is archaic, that there hasn't been brilliant performances through the season, or that we've been rubbish all year. There are valid reasons for him to go, people don't need to cheapen their argument.

Jayob10

rarnes1 wrote: »

Kenny is trying to get us to play the game properly.

Personnel needs adjusting, not the manager. Imo.

C'mon playing the game properly is such a general thing to say.

He likes attacking football but has shown that he is tactically naive also.

Harry Redknapp likes to play the game "the right way" as you say.

Our squad is not particularly very good. Its not top 4 quality. but its still underperforming.

If FSG keep Dalglish in place next season then I think they know are resigning themselves to another season without champions league football.

Our team needs reinforcements in defence, Midfield and Attack. its not a quick fix job.

cson

G.K. wrote: »

Doesn't have the CM depth I'm afraid.

Amongst other things.

I understand this place is pretty raw at the moment but you can't just click your fingers and hey presto Champions League qualification.

OwaynOTT

rarnes1 wrote: »

Kenny is trying to get us to play the game properly.

Personnel needs adjusting, not the manager. Imo.

Agree but Kenny needs to take some responsibility. He signed the players at inflated prices, or didn't stop Comolli. Either way he was majorally involved.

Can argue that squad was fairly limited before and the signings have improved us but id counter that with value for money.

If we haven't improved dramatically by December. I think it's times to look elsewhere.
Doesn't need much to improve us though. Lucky there has it fairly close but I'd keep Reina and get a quality CM.

Lucas/ new CM/ Aquaman rotated with Steve Gerrard

Looks good.

Jayob10

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Lucas / Gerrard / Aqualaini / Henderson backed up by Adam / Shelvey / Spearing would get the job done imo.

no it wouldn't.

And also lets dispense with this Aquilani business, the worse we play the better he seems to become. He'll be staying in Italy. He is on massive wages and its blatantly obvious the club want to write his debt off the books.

LuckyLloyd

cson wrote: »

Amongst other things.

I understand this place is pretty raw at the moment but you can't just click your fingers and hey presto Champions League qualification.

Spurs would not have been predicted as CL qualifiers in May 2009, just as Newcastle would not have been predicted as CL contenders in May 2011. You simply cannot underestimate the pace of change.

This squad is not as far away as opposition fans would like to think. But that shouldn't bother you. You'll believe Arsenal are untouchable. Time will tell.

Revolution9

rarnes1 wrote: »

Kenny is trying to get us to play the game properly.

Personnel needs adjusting, not the manager. Imo.

I agree to an extent. I take issue with these claims that our tactics are "outdated". Just lazy criticism from people who are dead set on portraying Kenny as a relic, in my opinion. I like the system we employ and the way we set up, it's just some of the players within the system...

Einhard

rarnes1 wrote: »

Kenny is trying to get us to play the game properly.

Personnel needs adjusting, not the manager. Imo.

The question though, is can we trust Kenny to make the necessary personnel adjustments?

LuckyLloyd

Jayob10 wrote: »

no it wouldn't.

And also lets dispense with this Aquilani business, the worse we play the better he seems to become. He'll be staying in Italy. He is on massive wages and its blatantly obvious the club want to write his debt off the books.

The club can't ****ing sell him! As such, we should ****ing play him because his style of play and strengths are exactly what we need in that department. Much easier to plug him in than find something as good or better in the transfer market.

OwaynOTT

Jayob10 wrote: »

C'mon playing the game properly is such a general thing to say.

He likes attacking football but has shown that he is tactically naive also.

Harry Redknapp likes to play the game "the right way" as you say.

Our squad is not particularly very good. Its not top 4 quality. but its still underperforming.

If FSG keep Dalglish in place next season then I think they know are resigning themselves to another season without champions league football.

Our team needs reinforcements in defence, Midfield and Attack. its not a quick fix job.

Defence isn't a major concern. To we not gave one of the better ones? Agger needs more rest so Coates should see more time and at least then we will know if he is up to scratch. As it is we haven't seen him enough so can't judge him.

Midfield needs a CM and a winger. We also need a goal scorer. There's value to be had out there so we should be able to fill those positions with first teamers and them added to what we have would improve us significantly.

No need to sell Reina. I don't gt this play Doni trend. What has he done to justify it? Is it some new twist on the Doni joke?

jesus_thats_gre

G.K. wrote: »

Doesn't have the CM depth I'm afraid.

Nevermind much basis in reality either

Sell Reina for so little? Madness!

It's nearly as mad as people complaining about Spearing starting today. Who the **** else were we going to start given that there isn't anyone else?

And before someone suggests it, you need a holding midfielder when playing in a cup final against a team like Chelsea.

OwaynOTT

Einhard wrote: »

The question though, is can we trust Kenny to make the necessary personnel adjustments?

Yes. Working on the smaller scale Kenny has been successful.

Enrique, Bellamy and Adam have all been good signings considering their cost and impact.
Heck Coates shouldn't be knocked yet.
Higher end is the problem but I don't think there will be a budget in place that would even cover a Carroll and a Downing.

Jayob10

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

The club can't ****ing sell him! As such, we should ****ing play him because his style of play and strengths are exactly what we need in that department. Much easier to plug him in than find something as good or better in the transfer market.

have you watched much of Aquilani?

I have and I can tell you I find it extremely funny how folk seem to think he is the missing link.

He would be pasted for putting in 2 gutless, anonymous performances for every half decent one. he has flashes of quality, but he lacks heart, lacks a work ethic to flourish in the EPL, and most of all he lacks the desire to be in the UK.

I wholeheartedly agree that it was moronic to loan him out for 2 seasons, it was crazy in the extreme. But signing him in the first place was crazy.

Honestly think any talk of having him in the squad next season is pie in the sky. that ship has sailed, he will probably be shipped out for whatever sum we can get for him at this stage. no point bringing back a player who doesn't want to be here, just to sit on the bench so we can make a point that we won't sell him for peanuts, only to release him on a free when his contract is up.

El Inho

Sure suppose the sooner we look forward to next season the better so.

LuckyLloyd

jesus_thats_gre wrote: »

Nevermind much basis in reality either

Sell Reina for so little? Madness!

It's nearly as mad as people complaining about Spearing starting today. Who the **** else were we going to start given that there isn't anyone else?

And before someone suggests it, you need a holding midfielder when playing in a cup final against a team like Chelsea.

He's not worth anymore than that. He simply isn't top notch anymore, hasn't been for two years, sorry. He's done.

K-9

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Lucas / Gerrard / Aqualaini / Henderson backed up by Adam / Shelvey / Spearing would get the job done imo.

And not one would be a suitable long term and first team partner for Lucas amongst the other 6!

Mikeyt086

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Spurs would not have been predicted as CL qualifiers in May 2009, just as Newcastle would not have been predicted as CL contenders in May 2011. You simply cannot underestimate the pace of change.

This squad is not as far away as opposition fans would like to think. But that shouldn't bother you. You'll believe Arsenal are untouchable. Time will tell.

Exactly. Say for example Liverpool signed Yohan Cabaye and Papiss Cisse last summer, would be right in contention for 3rd now. Liverpool on their day at the moment can beat anyone, the home form against lower end opposition is mental as much as anything this stage, a few key signings and Lucas back fit and teams wont like coming to Anfield again imo. The only problem is that not everyone has the amazing scouting network that Newcastle seem to have.