Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 11/12 (End of March 2012 onwards)

mike65

As Bellamy, Maxi and Kuyt are all wide men of different types (and not one of them genuine!) and two of them are probably off I do think a right winger will be bought.

whatawaster

DDC1990 wrote: »

Im so confused now.

Went into yesterdays game thinking that we need a striker urgently, and that Carroll is only a squad player.

But if Carroll starts to play like that, then he deserves a spot starting up front, with Suarez playing off him, where Gerrard should have been playing yesterday.

We need a striker urgently.

Our depth in that position is very worrying and it is one of our weakest areas at youth/reserve level imo (Ecclestone, Ngoo, Morgan all look a long way from being ready to be part of the first team squad).

The question is whether or not we need to spend the bulk of our kitty on a proven, senior striker, or go for a lesser known, younger player.

I am very confident that Carroll will have a much better season next year. Not a 35m season, but if he shows the level of performance he has in the last few months and adds to that maybe 15 goals then he will be a valuable player next year.

My preference would be for a pacy striker in their early 20s, who can finish, and ideally costs around 5-10 million. Someone who can play with Suarez, can play off Carroll's flick on's, and can do a job on their own up front in the Europa League or games when Carroll and Suarez are injured. Any ideas?

whatawaster

mike65 wrote: »

As Bellamy, Maxi and Kuyt are all wide men of different types (and not one of them genuine!) and two of them are probably off I do think a right winger will be bought.

We need to do everything in our power to get Hoillet.

With Kuyt's wages off the books and a small transfer fee in, it will be imo a big upgrade at no cost.

Convincing him to come will be tough, but we can offer him almost guaranteed first team action

Turtyturd

whatawaster wrote: »

The only three forward players who deserved a start yesterday were Suarez, Carroll and Bellamy.

Why?

DDC1990

whatawaster wrote: »

We need a striker urgently.

Our depth in that position is very worrying and it is one of our weakest areas at youth/reserve level imo (Ecclestone, Ngoo, Morgan all look a long way from being ready to be part of the first team squad).

The question is whether or not we need to spend the bulk of our kitty on a proven, senior striker, or go for a lesser known, younger player.

I am very confident that Carroll will have a much better season next year. Not a 35m season, but if he shows the level of performance he has in the last few months and adds to that maybe 15 goals then he will be a valuable player next year.

My preference would be for a pacy striker in their early 20s, who can finish, and ideally costs around 5-10 million. Someone who can play with Suarez, can play off Carroll's flick on's, and can do a job on their own up front in the Europa League or games when Carroll and Suarez are injured. Any ideas?

Hmm there is this guy playing at Rayo Vallacano in Spain.

Pacheco I think. Pacy lad. Can finish. good skills and positioning.

Was got for free during the summer, so could be cheap?

Plays off the main striker.

whatawaster

Turtyturd wrote: »

Why?

I think one of Maxi, Kuyt, Downing and Bellamy had to play.

While I agree he has been poor recently, he can offer something the other three can't, which is pace and a direct running threat.

monkey9

Jordan Henderson touched the ball around the 39th minute and the general reaction in the pub was "Henderson's playing???". And as for Stewart Downing, he doesn't even gave the good grace to be truly sh!t, he's just completely infuriatingly average and i depise the fact that i may see him in a Liverpool shirt again!!

Andy Carroll was brilliant when he came on! He looked so up for it and he was the same on tuesday. I just hope we get that performance from him on a more consistant basis next season.

whatawaster

DDC1990 wrote: »

Hmm there is this guy playing at Rayo Vallacano in Spain.

Pacheco I think. Pacy lad. Can finish. good skills and positioning.

Was got for free during the summer, so could be cheap?

Plays off the main striker.

I was probably Pacheco's biggest fan here during his reserve days.

But pacy he was not.

He's also struggled in Spain this year and I think its unlikely he will return to Liverpool.

Still, if you said to me that Maxi, Downing and Kuyt would be leaving to be replaced by 1) A new quality winger, 2) Pacheco and 3) Sterling, I would say to you that while this is not an ideal amount of depth, I think we would be stronger than we were this season.

Edit: He wouldn't be cheap, he'd be free. He's still our player (though I think Atletico have an option to buy)

LuckyLloyd

barone wrote: »

cant believe your talking about selling on pepe.....

alonso/masch/.. replaced them have we?

replace pepe with who exactly?


think the subject should be dropped,he's had a bad season,he's not hid from that fact,

he's quality and equally importantly he is committed to lfc.

He is nowhere near as good for us now as Masch and Alonso were the seasons before they left.

OwaynOTT

DDC1990 wrote: »

Im so confused now.

Went into yesterdays game thinking that we need a striker urgently, and that Carroll is only a squad player.

But if Carroll starts to play like that, then he deserves a spot starting up front, with Suarez playing off him, where Gerrard should have been playing yesterday.

That leaves midfield to worry about. But with Lucas back, you are looking at a battle between Gerrard and Henderson for the last central midfield spot. Again, a few weeks ago this was a no-brainer, but i've seen Henderson improve despite playing beside Spearing, whilst age seems to be catching up with Gerrard. His timing and his pace have deminished, and he can't seem to make those bursting runs through midfield anymore.

Which leaves us with the Winger positions.This is our real weakness. Downing isn't good enough. Bellemy doesn't have much left in him. Kuyt and Maxi are off. Who's left? Sterling? Too young for now, but certainly should have a regular bench position next year, or if not, should be on loan to a lower (if thats possible these days) Premiership Side.

I think Defnsively we are ok. Could do with another LB, unless Robinson makes strides over the summer. We have good cover for Johnson at RB, and Coates is decent cover at CB.

So I think we should lineout similar to this next season.

---

Reina

---

Johnson---Skrtel---Agger---Enrique

---

Lucas---Henderson

---

Winger 1

---

Suarez

---

Winger 2

---

Carroll

---

However seeing as we spent 18m on a winger last season its highly unlikely that even 1 new winger will be brought in.

Fustrating times ahead.

Still need another Forward to add to Suarez and Carroll. Carroll played well the last few weeks but a final appearance was in his mind. Remains to be seen if he can keep up that form for a prolonged patch.
Need another midfielder and can get by with one more wide player.

OwaynOTT

whatawaster wrote: »

We need a striker urgently.

Our depth in that position is very worrying and it is one of our weakest areas at youth/reserve level imo (Ecclestone, Ngoo, Morgan all look a long way from being ready to be part of the first team squad).

The question is whether or not we need to spend the bulk of our kitty on a proven, senior striker, or go for a lesser known, younger player.

I am very confident that Carroll will have a much better season next year. Not a 35m season, but if he shows the level of performance he has in the last few months and adds to that maybe 15 goals then he will be a valuable player next year.

My preference would be for a pacy striker in their early 20s, who can finish, and ideally costs around 5-10 million. Someone who can play with Suarez, can play off Carroll's flick on's, and can do a job on their own up front in the Europa League or games when Carroll and Suarez are injured. Any ideas?

A proven experienced goal getter please.

Turtyturd

whatawaster wrote: »

I think one of Maxi, Kuyt, Downing and Bellamy had to play.

While I agree he has been poor recently, he can offer something the other three can't, which is pace and a direct running threat.

Just wondering, I called for him to start as well but not on the basis that he deserved it. In hindsight it was the wrong call, because as Ade said yesterday he hasn't looked like to same player since his exile/injury.

firemansam4

I have had some concerns about Enrique well before yesterdays match, he seemed to be a great signing at the start but has put in some very average performances since, people have been putting him out to be one of our better signings this year but I think there has to be a question mark over him at the moment.

Reina has had a poor season but would be very premature to say he is done, I remember cech having a poor season and he has since come back from that.

Great to see Carroll perform so well yesterday, but it remains to be seen if he can keep it going now, Hopefully he will continue this onto next season and prove all his doubters wrong.

spockety

firemansam4 wrote: »

I have had some concerns about Enrique well before yesterdays match, he seemed to be a great signing at the start but has put in some very average performances since, people have been putting him out to be one of our better signings this year but I think there has to be a question mark over him at the moment.

I think Enrique is fairly solid. But that's all. He doesn't provide an additional spark that makes his truly special or great player. But I wouldn't write him off because of that. If we were having a better season, particularly with more goals being chipped in from midfield, nobody would really question Enrique.

He endeared himself to the fans in the first few months because his pace seemed a match for almost anyone, and he was strong as an ox when it came to taking the ball and protecting the ball from opposition wingers/forwards. There was a lingering image created of Enrique in my mind of him harrassing and coralling opposition wingers outside our 18 yard box and sheperding them into the advertising hoarding while he turns with the ball and canters away.

However I struggle to think of a single assist. His decision making in the opposition half isn't great. He takes pot shots that have no chance, and doesn't seem to have a knack for finding an attacking player with a killer pass. This may be because he's had the likes of Downing playing on front of him which has made that difficult.

He's a very solid left back, and it's been a problem position for ages.

El Inho

Reina is a world class goalkeeper and can only imagine he doesnt believe where liverpool are at deserves him.

I'm sure he'll give it another year and see.

Enrique I have another theory on...he was good until newcastle past us out. Regrets/Jealous perhaps. Who knows...

Wipe the slate clean for everyone now and reset, buy, and bloodywell get better.

murpho999

El Spearo wrote: »

Reina is a world class goalkeeper and can only imagine he doesnt believe where liverpool are at deserves him.

I'm sure he'll give it another year and see.

Enrique I have another theory on...he was good until newcastle past us out. Regrets/Jealous perhaps. Who knows...

Wipe the slate clean for everyone now and reset, buy, and bloodywell get better.

If that is the way he feels then we'd be better off without him.

Players have to take responsibility for the position they are in.

DDC1990

murpho999 wrote: »

If that is the way he feels then we'd be better off without him.

Players have to take responsibility for the position they are in.

In fairness you only have to listen to any interview with him to see that is complete bollix!

He loves Liverpool, and has said several times that he is happy where he is!

El Inho

What I meant with that was; that for a top class keeper, he keeps getting dealt the hard hand...2nd choice to Casillias for life, Liverpool in shocking form.

I have no doubts he'll stay, but im trying to understand his form.

DDC1990

Meh, he's just going through some ****e form.

Im sure he'll pick it up again next year.

murpho999

DDC1990 wrote: »

In fairness you only have to listen to any interview with him to see that is complete bollix!

He loves Liverpool, and has said several times that he is happy where he is!

Please note I started my sentence with 'if'.

Also, didn't Torres say the exact same things?

slingerz

Liverpool need some serious additions in the summer. I actually don't know where to start from. I think a sub goalie should be added and a backup left back to Enrique

Midfield is a difficult one I actually think Charlie Adam is a big loss as he's the best passer in our squad. A replacement for Spearing who can both be a passer and defensive midfielder.

Wide areas I think Kuyt and Maxi need to move on with some pacey additions arriving, they all need some quality and a goal scorer to compliment Suarez and Carroll

barone

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

He is nowhere near as good for us now as Masch and Alonso were the seasons before they left.

alonso was pretty average the two seasons prior to his last imo,its nearly always forgotten

batm!ke

barone wrote: »

alonso was pretty average the two seasons prior to his last imo,its nearly always forgotten

He was coming back from an injury and then Rafa tried bringing Barry in to replace him. I think the main reson he had such a great last season was a big FU to Rafa.

Dannyboy1987

I don't think kenny will attract big players , sure look at who he got Adam ,downing, Henderson ,Carroll (will come good) over hyped and over priced britsh players .

batm!ke

Oversimplifying things I know, but you could say Kenny is trying to create a team in the mould of his old Liverpool side, but maybe times are too different for him now, especially when he looks at buying a player. In fairness that's one thing Ferguson <spit>:D has done very well, adapted to the changing of the game.

Morzadec

Reina has had a disappointing season but I have no doubts in his ability.

GK is very low in the order of priorities at the moment.

One good game by Carroll can't change my opinion that we need a CF.

Next on the list is probably a winger. (Perennial problem, but someone who can beat a man, score a goal, put a cross in etc..)

Then a CM could be useful. The likes of Adam, Henderson and Spearing hopefully to be used more as squad players.

Finally a left-back would be nice to provide competition and a rest for Enrique. Preferably a wing-back, someone who offers a bit more going forward than Enrique. I still think Enrique is a good player, perhaps tiredness has caught up with him a bit as he's been playing every match. One thing Enrique is not great at though is providing a goal threat through goals or assists, which is to be expected of a modern fullback, especially if we're going 4-2-3-1

OwaynOTT

Morzadec wrote: »

Reina has had a disappointing season but I have no doubts in his ability.

GK is very low in the order of priorities at the moment.

One good game by Carroll can't change my opinion that we need a CF.

Next on the list is probably a winger. (Perennial problem, but someone who can beat a man, score a goal, put a cross in etc..)

Then a CM could be useful. The likes of Adam, Henderson and Spearing hopefully to be used more as squad players.

Finally a left-back would be nice to provide competition and a rest for Enrique. Preferably a wing-back, someone who offers a bit more going forward than Enrique. I still think Enrique is a good player, perhaps tiredness has caught up with him a bit as he's been playing every match. One thing Enrique is not great at though is providing a goal threat through goals or assists, which is to be expected of a modern fullback, especially if we're going 4-2-3-1

Pretty much spot on and I said they same last night.

ricero

the club is crying out for a winger that can take players on and score goals. jasus the last one of them players i say we had was steve mcmanaman

daithijjj

Revolution9 wrote: »

T'fcuk?!

I totally missed that, went under my radar. A quick google says he was appointed to review the clubs communications, what exactly is his role?

Im not entirely sure what his role is, might just be temporary. All i know is that he is a good man to have given his previous work and him being a Liverpool fan.

Phoenix Park

Napoli two down to Bologna with 3 minutes to go if anyone wants to start linking Cavani and Co with ourselves. Looks increasingly likely Udinese will take the third and final Champions League spot.

I think there's a good chance Sneijder will leave Inter in the summer too regardless of his contract, i can see United making a real go for him if they can't get Modric. We could do worse than Sneijder ourselves! Pour the whole summers transfer budget into him and pay him Kuyt's, Aurelio's and Maxi's wages combined

redzerdrog

Phoenix Park wrote: »

I think there's a good chance Sneijder will leave Inter in the summer too regardless of his contract, i can see United making a real go for him if they can't get Modric. We could do worse than Sneijder ourselves! Pour the whole summers transfer budge into him and pay him Kuyt's, Aurelio's and Maxi's wages combined

never mind the fact that he has been injured this year and under performed and we have 4 other positions that is more of a priority;)

murpho999

Fulham win so we're 9th now!

Just to add to the weekend and enthuse the 'Kenny Out' brigade!

Melion

murpho999 wrote: »

Fulham win so we're 9th now!

Just to add to the weekend and enthuse the 'Kenny Out' brigade!

Happy with our season?

Fowler87

ricero wrote: »

the club is crying out for a winger that can take players on and score goals. jasus the last one of them players i say we had was steve mcmanaman

Kewell and Riera did a job to a certain extent but for consistency, ya Macca still is standout attacking wide man over the last 20 years which is dire

murpho999

Melion wrote: »

Happy with our season?

No, not at all, but since it became obvious a couple of months ago that we were not going to challenge for top 4 then I stopped worrying if we finish 5th, 6th or 10th.

Melion

murpho999 wrote: »

No, not at all, but since it became obvious a couple of months ago that we were not going to challenge for top 4 then I stopped worrying if we finish 5th, 6th or 10th.

Ridiculous IMO

OwaynOTT

I'll be disgusted with 10th and while I wouldnt be thrilled with 5th or even 6th, they are better positions to finish in and I can't understand the logic behind the whole. I difference between 5th and 10th.

murpho999

Melion wrote: »

Ridiculous IMO

Why? Will it be remembered in the future when LFC fought back to 6th place?

I'm more concerned now about what happens in the summer with Kenny and the squad in preparation for next season.

barone

our league position is embarrasing.

ricero

barone wrote: »

our league position is embarrasing.

the way i saw it was we stopped taking the league games seriously after the arsenal lose at home

cson

ricero wrote: »

the way i saw it was we stopped taking the league games seriously after the arsenal lose at home

I seriously doubt that was the case but if it is, it's a shocking indictment on the club tbh.

Every league game should be taken seriously, otherwise whats the point? If that attitude was adopted why would the fans go to games?

Jesus Wept

It'll likely be noted by potential transfer targets. Hmmm, where did this club that want me to sign finish? ...10th... errr
...or.... 10th! that sounds about my level : ) : ) : )

Turtyturd

I'd like to think any potential targets would base a move on how the club have faired on average in people's games of FM.

Jayob10

murpho999 wrote: »

Why? Will it be remembered in the future when LFC fought back to 6th place?

I'm more concerned now about what happens in the summer with Kenny and the squad in preparation for next season.

seriously enough is enough, its a nonsensical opinion to say it doesn't matter.

Kenny was praised to the hilt for taking us to 6th after Hodgson's tenure saw us slide down the table.

Recovering to get us to a higher position saw him get the job on a full time basis.

Last season it mattered that we recovered to finish well in the league, and now this season it doesn't matter?

Quit peddling nonsense. I don't think you even believe it yourself.

markie29

Joe Allen has been great against United.....hope Liverpool try to sign him as he would be a very useful addition to the squad/team.

Chucky the tree

Huge summer ahead now. Hopefully get in a decent manager and clearly some of the dross in the squad. If we don't nail our transfers this summer it could be a long wait for 4th.

CantGetNoSleep

markie29 wrote: »

Joe Allen has been great against United.....hope Liverpool try to sign him as he would be a very useful addition to the squad/team.

Solid addition as Liverpool attempt to consolidate their top 10 position

murpho999

Jayob10 wrote: »

seriously enough is enough, its a nonsensical opinion to say it doesn't matter..

Obviously it matters to you but for me once it became obvious that we weren't getting 4th then it didn't matter to me if we came 6th or 10th. Then the focus became the cups and we got one of them and reached another final.

Kenny was praised to the hilt for taking us to 6th after Hodgson's tenure saw us slide down the table

Recovering to get us to a higher position saw him get the job on a full time basis..

Kenny got praised last year for taking us away from relegation and also showing them how to play football again.

Last season it mattered that we recovered to finish well in the league, and now this season it doesn't matter?

Different scenario, Kenny got us momentum that led to a late chance of 4th spot. We ended up in 6th.....not that many people remember!

This season was going well till January and we all know it's gone wrong since then.Loss of home form, Suarez Ban, Lucas injury.
Some good performances were turned into defeats by lack of chances being put away and inability to close out games. Defeats to Arsenal & QPR being examples.

Quit peddling nonsense. I don't think you even believe it yourself.

Well I do believe it, I'm just not one for making rash knee jerk decisions.
Like yesterday, no one mentioned Carroll before game and very few comments about the starting line-up then afterwards Kenny was an idiot for not playing him from the start. That drives me mad.

To be honest I'm getting fed up with internet analysis where every defeat or draw leads to massive criticism (of any team not just Liverpool) and defenders get torn apart for conceding a goal but it's just impossible to win every game.

What's needed is calm heads to sit together and analyse what went wrong and what should have been done and what can be done in the future and I think the owners, chairman etc and Kenny will be able to do that and reach a decision that's best for the club.

I genuinely don't think they are that far-off challenging for top 4 place next season A couple of signings and a bit more luck.

Will be tough as people seem to also forget they're are some very good sides ahead of them who will also be strengthening their squads so I think we just have to be patient as the squad is coming from a low base since 2010.

No doubt the majority here will disagree with me and I'll be called an idiot or Kenny apologist but I do believe that supporting a team does also mean sometimes getting behind them during difficult periods and not just calling for heads to roll all the time.

Drumpot

NukaCola wrote: »

My point is, Fergie never left the game for a long period then came back. He was constantly successful and never had a terrible season when he was in charge, bar his first few seasons.

Calling for Fergie to be sacked and calling for Kenny to be sacked is not comparable at all. Kenny hasnt proved he can still be successful. And on the final position of LFC this season, surely anyone can see its not good enough, not by a long shot. If anything it shows how fickle fans can be when they are spoilt and when they havent been successful.

I love Kenny as a player and past manager. I dont think he can do it anymore. If he gets another season i dont think he will do much better being honest. I see nothing in this season that could prove otherwise.

Thats a fair point on fergie but I still dont think any manager can be judged fairly after only one full season.

Im not having a go at Liverpool fans, it just annoys me that in football, managers are disgarded before they get a decent shot at creating a new environment (that takes years).

The whole sport has become corrupted with success being demanded instantly.

Barca (while not a perfect club by any stretch), showed what a long term club strategy can do with everybody pulling in the same direction. It took them a decade to perfect it. Its also well publicised that it took sir Alex over 5 years to create a top team capable of winning the EPL.

I havent watched Liverpool much this season and cant honestly judge what Kenny has brought to the club. His signings have raised eyebrows, but new players take time to bed in and it effects the ability of a team to reach its potential.

I can honestly say if I were a liverpool fan, while I would be very frustrated, I would want to give Kenny at least one more season to get things right and if Liverpool can get closer to the CL (and maybe go one setup further in the FA cup), I would consider that a success.

Carroll actually looks like he might be settling in and Henderson is very very young (you have to give youngsters at least 2 season to settle into bigger clubs).

Tusky

murpho999 wrote: »

Obviously it matters to you but for me once it became obvious that we weren't getting 4th then it didn't matter to me if we came 6th or 10th. Then the focus became the cups and we got one of them and reached another final.



Kenny got praised last year for taking us away from relegation and also showing them how to play football again.



Different scenario, Kenny got us momentum that led to a late chance of 4th spot. We ended up in 6th.....not that many people remember!

This season was going well till January and we all know it's gone wrong since then.Loss of home form, Suarez Ban, Lucas injury.
Some good performances were turned into defeats by lack of chances being put away and inability to close out games. Defeats to Arsenal & QPR being examples.




Well I do believe it, I'm just not one for making rash knee jerk decisions.
Like yesterday, no one mentioned Carroll before game and very few comments about the starting line-up then afterwards Kenny was an idiot for not playing him from the start. That drives me mad.

To be honest I'm getting fed up with internet analysis where every defeat or draw leads to massive criticism (of any team not just Liverpool) and defenders get torn apart for conceding a goal but it's just impossible to win every game.

What's needed is calm heads to sit together and analyse what went wrong and what should have been done and what can be done in the future and I think the owners, chairman etc and Kenny will be able to do that and reach a decision that's best for the club.

I genuinely don't think they are that far-off challenging for top 4 place next season A couple of signings and a bit more luck.

Will be tough as people seem to also forget they're are some very good sides ahead of them who will also be strengthening their squads so I think we just have to be patient as the squad is coming from a low base since 2010.

No doubt the majority here will disagree with me and I'll be called an idiot or Kenny apologist but I do believe that supporting a team does also mean sometimes getting behind them during difficult periods and not just calling for heads to roll all the time.

"To be honest I'm getting fed up with internet analysis where every defeat or draw leads to massive criticism"

What about analysis and criticism based on the season as a whole? We were terrible for pretty much the entire season. We played seriously ineffective football from day one. We scored very few goals, won very few home games and will finish the season in one of the worst positions for decades. We are just a few points off the bottom half of the table, we missed out on 4th, our target, by a mile.

Our transfers have been dire and the positions that need improving this summer are EXACTLY the same positions that needed improving last summer. Yeah, Lucas was injured and Suarez was banned for eight games - but wheres the backup? Because we spent big in both the CM and CF positions. We have gone backwards in the last 12 months, not forwards...I could go on.

I think all the above criticism is warranted and I don't believe it's knee jerk. Most of what you posted reads like petty excuses.