Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 11/12 (End of March 2012 onwards)

opr

Chucky the tree wrote: »

How many mistakes has he made though? I can only think of 5 or 6 and some of those haven't been that bad. I missed the goal last night, not sure if he was to blame for that. I think it's pretty common for goalkeepers to make a lot of mistakes, generally good ones will be helped out by not being put in difficult positions. I don't think he's declining, he showed last night against Lukaka that his reflexes are still top notch, it's more his decision making which needs to be improved on which I don't think is related to age.

It isn't just the fact he's making mistakes but on the other side he isn't making saves. The Lukaka save was one of very few times this season when he has bailed us out when needed. We don't concede that many chances but our shots on target to goals ratio I would say is awful. I mean if you look at the other top keepers in the league you can point to games in which you could say they've have won games with saves. Reina isn't doing that for us like he was in other seasons. He knows this himself, has admitted as much in an interview recently and you could see his frustration at actually pulling a save off when he kicked the post afterwards.

Opr

Mr Alan

Ardent wrote: »

That's the bare mimium required this summer. Question is though can we attract sufficient quality given we are not competing in Europe yet again? Will we be limited to players such as Client Dempsey, Junior Hoilet, etc?

Junior Hoillet could be a very good buy for us. He's one of the best young players in the country? Our biggest concern around him would be a CL team would come in for him.

Clint Dempsey is hardly to be sniffed at either. Smashing player.

I hate this kind of snobbery that surrounds many of our fans, I touched on something the other day & it was seemingly ignored totally by people, but remember we scoffed at the idea of signing a player like Gareth Barry? Nowhere near good enough to play for Liverpool. Nowhere near good enough to play for a team with Champions League aspirations etc....Well, he played in the Champions League this year & is a ever present in the best team in England. Certainly not the joke shop player many here painted him out to be at the time.

We'll not be dining at the top table with the Eden Hazards of the world this summer. But we'll be on the tier just underneath. Back in Europe, massive club, new ambitious owners, get to play with the likes of Gerrard & Suarez paying big wages etc. We'll definitely be attractive for most players.

kfallon

Are the new kits being unveiled this week?

opr

whatawaster wrote: »

I think I read he has two years left on his contract, I know there was some debate about this on RAWK a few months back.

He has a ridiculous amount of ability and should be locked down to a long-term contract as soon as possible. He had a real dip in form at the start of the season, but the last few months he has been giving Sterling a run for his money as our best attacking reserve player.

If the club see no future for an 18 year old with that much talent then they are out of their minds imo. But I don't for a second think that's the case.

Nope it's one year

http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/news/latest-news/spain-ace-signs-pro-at-liverpool

My concerns aren't really based on what Borrell has said but reading posts from people who look to be in the loop with regards this stuff mumbling that they have heard he is unlikely to make the first team. He's heading off to Spain with the u19's this summer which hopefully he can do well at, then come back and maybe get a chance in pre-season.

Opr

5starpool

kfallon wrote: »

Are the new kits being unveiled this week?

Thursday night, Friday morning at a minute past midnight. Might just be the home kit unveiled though, although I reckon it will be home and away with the 3rd unveiled separately. No real reason to think that other than a hunch, but there you go.

paddy kerins

Reinas wife :eek:

kfallon

5starpool wrote: »

Thursday night, Friday morning at a minute past midnight. Might just be the home kit unveiled though, although I reckon it will be home and away with the 3rd unveiled separately. No real reason to think that other than a hunch, but there you go.

Presume it'll be a couple of weeks before it goes on sale then! Hope they don't make a balls of them

Dickerty

It's strange - we have underperformed so badly, yet I struggle to see many changes needed to the first team.

I think that Henderson, Shelvey, Carroll and Enrique have all played well in spells, and this was their bedding-in season. All are safe and should feature substantially next season. Downing underperformed a little more, but he has skills that are hard to find, hence why we paid over the odds. And the further emergence of Carroll make him more important.

I too have concerns about Reina, I don't think he's been the same since Xabi, Arbeloa and then Nando left. He makes too many mistakes, and the sending off in the cup was a sign of some unhappiness.

For me, we need a right winger (Henderson is a CM at heart) to replace Kuyt of 2/3 years ago, and a 3rd striker who could play with both Carroll and Suarez in home games. Someone with some speed and a good record, not a risk. Higuain, Defoe, Gyan? Three very different options, but in the absence of either of the main 2, they need to be capable of carry the load, maybe even pushing ahead occasionaly.

I'm loving Skrtel and Agger together, no changes there. And can't wait for Lucas to return!

machiavellianme

Dickerty wrote: »

Someone with some speed and a good record, not a risk. Higuain, Defoe, Gyan? Three very different options, but in the absence of either of the main 2, they need to be capable of carry the load, maybe even pushing ahead occasionaly.

I'm loving Skrtel and Agger together, no changes there. And can't wait for Lucas to return!

Eh, you do realise we have a certain Luis Suarez playing for us?

5starpool

kfallon wrote: »

Presume it'll be a couple of weeks before it goes on sale then! Hope they don't make a balls of them

I'd guess that they won't go on sale until the adidas deal officially ends, which is likely the end of this month I'd guess. Probably more official dates somewhere.

joe123

Are Dempsey and Hoilet both out of contract this summer? If so we should make a move for them as I reckon we will have very little to spend and we have very little in outgoing players that will bring in cash.

Dempsey though while a decent player, is hyped up as he is coming off the back of a fantastic season. Hes 29+ though isnt he? Plus we are not exactly in dire need of an attacking midfielder when funds may be tight.

Hoillet looks an exciting player but there is huge room for improvement in his game. Doesnt have a finishing touch and a poor workrate. Has a touch of the invisibility about him aka Henderson syndrome.

We definitely need a defensive central midfielder as Lucas is coming off the back of a serious injury and Spearing is just not good enough.

We also need a quality striker even if we are missing champions league and may not have a whole pile to spend. To be honest im not sure who we can get that would be interested/good enough.

On a side note, Adam Johnson may be able to be picked up cheap but could see the likes of Spurs or Newcastle getting him instead. If they both get Champions league we dont have a hope of signing him.

Its going to be a tough Summer in terms of transfers.

Hannibal

on Clint Dempsey, how much better than Kuyt is he? considering Dempsey is 29 and will cost over £10m I don't think it's feasible

opr wrote: »

Dani Pacheco - Not got games while on loan. Will be back during the summer but I think will be sold. Will be sold

Peter Gulacsi - Needs to go on loan again. Will be sold

Danny Wilson - No idea what the club will do with him. Will be sold

Toni Silva - Another loan deal hopefully at a higher level. Fully agree

Others who we need to do something with next season.

Jon Flanagan - Needs a loan as another season sitting on the first team bench is doing him more harm than good. Don't think he's Liverpool standard, bit of a Stephen Warnock and could make it elsewhere

Raheem - Promoted to first team. Agreed

Coady - Need to go on loan. As you said has stagnated badly this season. Don't think he quite has it, agree with trying a loan first

Robinson - Promoted to the first team. Unlucky with injuries this year but looks top notch

Eccleston - No idea Not good enough, should be sold

Wisdom - Loan Agreed

Adorjan - I love this kid, such a clever footballer. Needs to go to a good passing side most likely in Europe as I think he would fail badly in the lower English leagues. Maybe Brighton or Blackpool if they're not promoted on loan

Ngoo - Loan Can't see him playing higher than 3rd tier

Sama - Loan Same as Adorjan

Suso - Left him till last. It's just a personal opinion from what I have read, heard the coaches say that the club might not see him having a future here. He only has a year left on his contract so if we loan him out I can't see him coming back. I guess send him out on loan and see how he gets on. Personally I think he's the most talented, but don't feel he'll make it for some reason. We could send him to Spain like San José and then hopefully get a couple of million

Our senior squad imo:

We have a core of I think seven players who the team will be built around: Reina, Johnson, Agger, Skrtel, Lucas, Gerrard, Suarez

Supporting these seven we have players who need to improve but should be kept in the squad: Carroll, Henderson, Shelvey, Adam, Downing, Enrique, Kelly, Coates

Players who could be important but are also dispensible: Aquilani, Bellamy

Players who are likely to be sold or should be moved on: Carragher (not feasible paying a 34 year old second choice CB £80k p/w), Kuyt, Maxi, Aurelio, Jones, Cole, Spearing, Pacheco, Wilson, Doni

I think defensively we are alright, if Carragher takes a big pay cut he could be an invaluable squad player. We are short in midfield of real cover for Lucas and should be looking at getting a top class player in there to bolster the position. The wings are still a problem with Kuyt and Maxi going and Bellamy obviously not fit enough, Downing needs to step upto the plate and we could do with players for both sides, we need another striker maybe a poacher who is alert and has pace like a Defoe to feed off Carroll's knock downs and Suarez's brilliance

Turtyturd

machiavellianme wrote: »

Eh, you do realise we have a certain Luis Suarez playing for us?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/sunderland/7992484/Sunderland-striker-Asamoah-Gyan-forgives-Luis-Suarez-for-his-World-Cup-handball.html

However I still wouldn't like to see Gyan at the club.

Vudgie

Just for 90 minutes last night all the anger and disappointment from a difficult year washed away. It was hard to feel frustrated with any of the players watching them sheepishly take a lap of honour.

We need to improve greatly and that means being ruthless with some players but we probably aren't a million miles away from the top 4. We will not compete for the title by any stretch in the short term but based on the performances of both Spurs and Arsenal this year we should view that standard as attainable.

While I longed for the end of the season a couple of weeks ago I am strangley sad that it is coming to an end now, but I suppose we move on to Euro 2012 now until August.

retalivity

paddy kerins wrote: »

Reinas wife :eek:

Reina's daughter's massive feet!

LuckyLloyd

opr wrote: »

It isn't just the fact he's making mistakes but on the other side he isn't making saves. The Lukaka save was one of very few times this season when he has bailed us out when needed. We don't concede that many chances but our shots on target to goals ratio I would say is awful. I mean if you look at the other top keepers in the league you can point to games in which you could say they've have won games with saves. Reina isn't doing that for us like he was in other seasons. He knows this himself, has admitted as much in an interview recently and you could see his frustration at actually pulling a save off when he kicked the post afterwards.

Opr

It's truly amazing to me that people aren't noticing this!!

LuckyLloyd

paddy kerins wrote: »

Reinas wife :eek:

Looks magnificent for a woman who has had three children!

Chucky the tree

opr wrote: »

It isn't just the fact he's making mistakes but on the other side he isn't making saves. The Lukaka save was one of very few times this season when he has bailed us out when needed. We don't concede that many chances but our shots on target to goals ratio I would say is awful. I mean if you look at the other top keepers in the league you can point to games in which you could say they've have won games with saves. Reina isn't doing that for us like he was in other seasons. He knows this himself, has admitted as much in an interview recently and you could see his frustration at actually pulling a save off when he kicked the post afterwards.

Opr

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

It's truly amazing to me that people aren't noticing this!!

It's not that people aren't noticing it is just that people aren't expecting him to 100% of shots even when he is a 30% dog, that's just not going to happen. Before we had the luxury of Reina probably going on a decent run and managing to save those 30% chances but now he's hit the opposite, where he's saving none of those chances. It's like a striker, he'll go on a run of form where he will score everything, even when he should be odds against. It's also possible to get a run where no matter what that every other strike will just place the ball into positions that no keeper can reach. Now this hasn't been situation for every goal but for the majority it has.

citytillidie

Just seen the tags for this thread how have the mods not removed one of them

LuckyLloyd

There's no point in furthering this debate with you Chucky. If he continues this form though you'll be agreeing with us before Christmas anyway. Time will reveal all.

For the record I think he's done as an above average keeper at the top level.

Chucky the tree

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

There's no point in furthering this debate with you Chucky. If he continues this form though you'll be agreeing with us before Christmas anyway. Time will reveal all.

For the record I think he's done as an above average keeper at the top level.

I won't, and I certainly won't be agreeing with replacing him with Doni. I'd rather my keeper take the correct gamble than the wrong one, or just stand there and watch the ball go past him.

redzerdrog

citytillidie wrote: »

Just seen the tags for this thread how have the mods not removed one of them

is there a way to tell which poster added the tags?

_blank_

redzerdrog wrote: »

is there a way to tell which poster added the tags?

the mods can see.

redzerdrog

Des wrote: »

the mods can see.

grand am sure it will be dealt with once they see it so

missingtime

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

There's no point in furthering this debate with you Chucky. If he continues this form though you'll be agreeing with us before Christmas anyway. Time will reveal all.

For the record I think he's done as an above average keeper at the top level.

I think you are being very harsh on him LuckyLloyd.

I personally believe its been the change in personnel, specifically the goalkeeping coach that he worked with when Rafa was in charge, that's affected his form. (Im not gonna go off on one about Xabi Valero )

I mean, he goes from being one of the best keepers in the premiership, has a bad patch and now he's done.

Something is up and rather than throw him to the wolves it would make much more sense to ask him what can the club do to improve his form.

_blank_

redzerdrog wrote: »

grand am sure it will be dealt with once they see it so

did you report it, or are you expecting the mods to just clairvoyantly read the tags?

LuckyLloyd

missingtime wrote: »

I think you are being very harsh on him LuckyLloyd.

I personally believe its been the change in personnel, specifically the goalkeeping coach that he worked with when Rafa was in charge, that's affected his form. (Im not gonna go off on one about Xabi Valero )

I mean, he goes from being one of the best keepers in the premiership, has a bad patch and now he's done.

Something is up and rather than throw him to the wolves it would make much more sense to ask him what can the club do to improve his form.

His bad patch is now essentially three years and counting, and he has been getting progressively worse during that extended spell. People have this idea in their head of what Reina is as a goalkeeper - but it is now a myth that hasn't had a basis in reality since the tail end of the 2008 / 9 season...

He's older now, and always depended on a freakish level of explosiveness. There is no rule that keepers should last forever a la Van Der Sar, Shilton, etc.

During the calendar year 2011 I was where a lot of people seem to be in this thread now, i.e. I was like 'it's just a bad run in a much poorer team, he'll get it back'. It's not coming back imo.

Hannibal

missingtime wrote: »

I think you are being very harsh on him LuckyLloyd.

I personally believe its been the change in personnel, specifically the goalkeeping coach that he worked with when Rafa was in charge, that's affected his form. (Im not gonna go off on one about Xabi Valero )

I mean, he goes from being one of the best keepers in the premiership, has a bad patch and now he's done.

Something is up and rather than throw him to the wolves it would make much more sense to ask him what can the club do to improve his form.

when Hodgson was in charge Reina worked with Mike Kelly, both him and Hodgson wanted Reina to be more "English" in style whatever that means. When Hodgson left Kelly went with him and Achterberg was promoted from the Reserves to coach the first team goalkeepers.
Maybe the GK coaches have to shoulder some of the blame if a keeper widely regarded as one of the worlds best behind Buffon and Casillas loses form, at Liverpool Reina worked with Ochotorena then Valero from 2007 to 2010 and all this coincided with his best form so there's the possibility that working with Kelly and Achterberg has caused to lose form in the same way outfield players don't perform when working with sub-standard managers

redzerdrog

Des wrote: »

did you report it, or are you expecting the mods to just clairvoyantly read the tags?

Nope on my Phone but not exactly sure how to report tags and no I was'nt expecting them to clairvoyantly read the tags. Enough mods read this thread regularly but if it is somehow missed I will have no problem sending a pm this evening.

I hope that is ok with you

cson

Dickerty wrote: »

Higuain, Defoe, Gyan? Three very different options, but in the absence of either of the main 2, they need to be capable of carry the load, maybe even pushing ahead occasionaly.

Jesus, whatever about the other two, are you seriously suggesting Higuain as a back up?! The guy is utter class and won't be going anywhere.

Nuri Sahin

Saddened for Neil Mellor who has been forced to retire due to injury. Always will be remembered fondly for the goals against Olympiakos as well as Arsenal of course back in 04/05.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NdgKLfAYrZI

-Ade-

-Ade- wrote: »

Saddened for Neil Mellor who has been forced to retire due to injury. Always will be remembered fondly for the goals against Olympiakos as well as Arsenal of course back in 04/05.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NdgKLfAYrZI

I'll remember Neil Mellor until the day I die because of that goal.

This man too

Nuri Sahin

Turtyturd wrote: »

What did Henderson get the boot for?

Don't know, but a random guess.. maybe for the club young player of the year. If there is such an award, I know other clubs award one every season.

machiavellianme

I think Hendo got the award for having the shiniest boots.

Mr Alan

Mr Alan wrote: »

Junior Hoillet could be a very good buy for us. He's one of the best young players in the country? Our biggest concern around him would be a CL team would come in for him.

Clint Dempsey is hardly to be sniffed at either. Smashing player.

I hate this kind of snobbery that surrounds many of our fans, I touched on something the other day & it was seemingly ignored totally by people, but remember we scoffed at the idea of signing a player like Gareth Barry? Nowhere near good enough to play for Liverpool. Nowhere near good enough to play for a team with Champions League aspirations etc....Well, he played in the Champions League this year & is a ever present in the best team in England. Certainly not the joke shop player many here painted him out to be at the time.

We'll not be dining at the top table with the Eden Hazards of the world this summer. But we'll be on the tier just underneath. Back in Europe, massive club, new ambitious owners, get to play with the likes of Gerrard & Suarez paying big wages etc. We'll definitely be attractive for most players.

Barry would have been a good addition to the squad alright.

Money spent this summer has to spent wisely. Dempsey would be a cracking signing for sure.

Gerrard needs to be utilised correctly next season, ie, in the final third. Otherwise he's completely wasted.

_blank_

rarnes1 wrote: »

Gerrard needs to be utilised correctly next season, ie, in the final third. Otherwise he's completely wasted.

Needs a strong manager then, to do that.

Where do you play him though?

Behind Suarez? Suarez is not an out-and-out striker.

Right of a three in 4-2-3-1?

Would he have the positional discipline to play there? I don't think so.

D'Agger

rarnes1 wrote: »

Gerrard needs to be utilised correctly next season, ie, in the final third. Otherwise he's completely wasted.

Has it been confirmed that he was supposed to be playing behind Suarez in the FA cup because he was in the middle of the field for the day

When playing CM he bombs up way too much and leaves gaps in the middle for us to get píssed through.

Nuri Sahin

rarnes1 wrote: »

Gerrard needs to be utilised correctly next season, ie, in the final third. Otherwise he's completely wasted.

I highly doubt that will be the case. I honestly think Gerrard has these images of being this master center midfielder when he isn't and will not ever be one. Only Rafa understood where to play him and had the balls to not play him CM anymore after his first season at the club.

Gerrard behind the striker, Suarez on the right (ie: his best position in his time in Europe, note all the damage he did for us coming in off the right hand side last season for example. Ajax fans will tell you RW/RWF is his best position. It's quite simple.

missingtime

rarnes1 wrote: »

Gerrard needs to be utilised correctly next season, ie, in the final third. Otherwise he's completely wasted.

He wont listen to anyone though. I thought Kenny would see play him further up the pitch and Kenny would be the one person that Gerrard would listen to but never happened.

Perhaps because of the lack of quality in the cm but hendo and shelvey did alright there the last night.

Kess73

citytillidie wrote: »

Just seen the tags for this thread how have the mods not removed one of them

That particular dig, which is an insult used by many rival fans in the UK regarding Hillsborough, seems to be tolerated by the mods of this forum as many posters have used that insult in match threads this season and a few posters made sure they got it in a number of times in April close to the memorial.

CL7

If we happen to make some quality signings and land a good strong manager that will do things his way then I don't think Gerrard will figure as much next season. He's a shadow of the player he was, doesn't have the intelligence or discipline to change his game and brings the whole team down when he's playing poorly. It seems harsh but it's true IMO.

Nuri Sahin

Carroll compilation vs Chelsea - http://www.footylounge.com/films//mostarlfc/andy-carroll-vs-chelsea-08-05-2012-video_806db9ebf.html

Kess73

rarnes1 wrote: »

Gerrard needs to be utilised correctly next season, ie, in the final third. Otherwise he's completely wasted.

He needs to become a back up player next season. He is injury prone at this stage of his career, and as such his game time should be limited to try and allow him to be as close to 100% for the games he does get used in.

He has only managed just over 20 games this season in all comps, and was similar last season. Next season is his 15th season at the club, a tremendous achivement, and I would rather see him used as an impact sub where he can come on and have a genuine effect on a game, than try to build a team around him when he most likely will only be able to play a third or so of the season if he is used as a starter from the get go of the new season.

Sir Gallagher

missingtime wrote: »

He wont listen to anyone though. I thought Kenny would see play him further up the pitch and Kenny would be the one person that Gerrard would listen to but never happened.

Perhaps because of the lack of quality in the cm but hendo and shelvey did alright there the last night.

How do you know Gerrard isn't listening when you have no idea as to what he's being told?

billymitchell

-Ade- wrote: »

Carroll compilation vs Chelsea - http://www.footylounge.com/films//mostarlfc/andy-carroll-vs-chelsea-08-05-2012-video_806db9ebf.html

Christ, he looked animal last night. Back to the player we saw at Newcastle

skywalker

I know there could have been a few red cards given out last night, but this was absolutely shocking from Essien. Very lucky not to have been a leg breaking challenge.

missingtime

Sir Gallagher wrote: »

How do you know Gerrard isn't listening when you have no idea as to what he's being told?

Well I'm only judging by his repeated comments in how he prefers playing as a CM. And how he sulked when playing RW despite him being very effective in the position.

Perhaps Kenny is telling him to play CM, I dont know why though, he can do a job there but, its not ideal.

Sir Gallagher

missingtime wrote: »

Well I'm only judging by his repeated comments in how he prefers playing as a CM. And how he sulked when playing RW despite him being very effective in the position.

Perhaps Kenny is telling him to play CM, I dont know why though, he can do a job there but, its not ideal.

If he was very effective at RW well then i'm sure he listened to Rafa about what to do even if he wasnt happy with it.

I think Dalglish doesn't really know what to do with him, or any of our other midfielders for that matter. I agree that Gerrard probably things CM is his best position but i doubt he's the big renegade who tells the manager where to play him like some point out on here.

cson

skywalker wrote: »

I know there could have been a few red cards given out last night, but this was absolutely shocking from Essien. Very lucky not to have been a leg breaking challenge.

**** me that's horrendous. Missed that last night.

Essien has form for that type of challenge too, not a case of 'not being that kind of player'.