Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 11/12 (End of March 2012 onwards)

lmao

Terry McDermott @TerryMac777

I just want to say how gutted i am that LFC have sacked Kenny today. The man is LFC through and through and he would have got it right. Whoever is next has to be a big name proven top flight manager, the Liverpool job isnt a job for a novice. In the modern day game its business people making football decisions and not football people making football decisions Kenny stabilised the club last year when they were in free fall, people shouldnt forget that. I agree some of the signings havent been a success this year but players need time, i needed 2 years and i ended up doing ok didnt I??

5starpool

The list of "what the fúck are they on" LFC related posters that I disagree with before they've even posted on this forum has increased from about 2 a couple of years ago, to close to 10 now at this stage. It's a worrying trend, and I'm relatively tolerant.

Morzadec

Anyone think that a new manager might mean a fairly decent transfer kitty this summer, perhaps more than we were expecting?

whatawaster

daithijjj wrote: »

Whats your reasoning?, how can you determine this to be progress?, thats where Kenny has us? and you would be happy for another manager to come in, get more money? and finish ballpark same place? give him another year? why?. Progress indeed. What will you say next season if your new young manager gets the chop? and the next one after that?

Why should i come closer to your view of the future when your answer to mine is, Kenny had to go, why should i give the new guy longer to build off Kenny's work if its not good enough for KK?. Because he is young? he finished 7th?. Tell me how your vision of finishing 7th differs from my vision of finishing in a similar place and giving a manager some time to get it right!!! Give me a scenario where you see a team finish 7th next year and we have progressed.!!

What is progress to one man is going backwards to another.

Signings I agree with, better use of youth players, someone who prefers the promising youth (Coates etc) over dinosaurs (Carragher), someone who changes tactics during matches when plan A is not working, someone who picks players on current form rather than past form.

That's just some of it.

They're personal to me. Not everyone values the same attributes in a manager. That's why some people wanted Kenny to stay and I didn't.

Mr Alan

So if a new manager comes in, plays Carra a bit, struggles tactically at times, doesnt make the subs you would & doesn't really give Sterling more than a couple of cameos & comes 6th, you'll want him sacked?

mike65

Morzadec wrote: »

Anyone think that a new manager might mean a fairly decent transfer kitty this summer, perhaps more than we were expecting?

Only better in the sense that FSG clearly wouldn't have trusted Dalglish to spend much above net spend of zero (which is why they sacked him of course).

If they have a plan, and one trusts they do having staged a night of the long
knives, then they do need to be willing to back that up to a plausible level.

Tusky

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Scoring goals wasn't our only problem. We had plenty of game where we were just terrible as well. That was the major problem with Kenny, we were consistently inconsistent which was a big worry for me. Couldn't seem to keep the players motivated and performing well enough for a length of time.

Exactly - and that never improved during the season. I don't think he was sacked for missing out on fourth - he was sacked because the owners didn't believe he could get fourth next year. The team showed no signs of improvement, consistency or direction during this campaign. Kenny got the job because he did an exceptional job for the second half of last season. I think it surprised a lot of people, myself included, but there a question mark remained about whether he could make the step up. I just don't think he did enough this season to get rid of that question mark unfortunately.

daithijjj

daithijjj wrote: »

When you say "leeway", you should look closer to home. Sorry to bring it up but Alex Ferguson spent heavily over 3 years '88/89/90 before it started to pay off, its true, he got lucky, you know it, he knows it, everyone knows it. Sure it was a different game but 'stability' and 'patience' are still the same old same old.

.

Great post.

Most utd fans probably too young on here to remember this banner.Different times but just shows you http://www.whoateallthepies.tv/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/Tara1.jpg



I think it's a sad day for the club myself, good news tomorrow please

Leiva

I would say there are a few Liverpool players quaking in their boots, and rightly so .

sweetie

Leiva wrote: »

Not even an amoeba would question Kennys legendary status, but yet again this is the soccer forum .

Surely he wouldnt, didn't he manage Shola at newcastle?

kingshankly

kingshankly wrote: »

I'm sure kennys in for a pull of compensation that's more money down the drain

Someone mentioned £8m - 2 years x £4m

Add that to Hodgson and Rafa compo and it's the guts of a top class player. Plus, we'll probably end up paying Wigan to take Martinez only to sack him in a year :pac:

klose

The avb talk is picking up speed I say go for it before martinez,lambert and co.


Anyways I'll always love kenny and what he's done for the club past and present, he's liverpool through and through, cut his veins and he bleeds liverpool red. It is the right decison and im sure the club will remain his 2nd most loved thing next to his family, I wish him well.
The clubs priorities go first before affiliations, ask a united fan what would they like to see happen if fergie had a meltdown/poor season/signings etc.. and im sure theyd put the club before fergie. Bitter pill to swallow but such is life.

Ceretainly a massive summer ahead for the club, hopefully some good news in the weeks ahead!

5starpool

rarnes1 wrote: »

Great post.

Most utd fans probably too young on here to remember this banner.Different times but just shows you http://www.whoateallthepies.tv/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/Tara1.jpg



I think it's a sad day for the club myself, good news tomorrow please

Not a chance in a million years would he have survived if the internet was around those days like it is now. None whatsoever.

5starpool

5starpool wrote: »

Not a chance in a million years would he have survived if the internet was around those days like it is now. None whatsoever.

http://i.imgur.com/psIdL.jpg

doc_17

Sad day for the club. The only man I'd want now is Rafa. You can take Martinez, Lambert and Rodgers and shove up your backside. He won't have the backing of the fans.

When Hodgson came in he never had a chance for 2 reasons, the other being that he stepped into the shoes of a popular and likeable manager.

If we sack a legend like Kenny after 1 full season then we'd dump Martinez after 2 defeats

K-9

djPSB wrote: »

After we beat City in the CC.

He got criticism from the first leg for going 5 at the back and then bringing on Carra as a DM. We'd no Lucas or Spearing and were playing City away! Suarez was out around that time too.

mike65

5starpool wrote: »

Not a chance in a million years would he have survived if the internet was around those days like it is now. None whatsoever.

The internet didn't see off Dalglish (which is full of apologists btw) 130 million quid and 8th place (plus Suarez controversy) did that.

Andre Vilas-Boas chatter does indeed seem to be gathering pace, not a surprise
I guess - high profile, young, probably gifted despite Chelsea.

doc_17

Stability is the key. If only we'd kept Rafa. I

Dont be at yourself

I can't really criticize the owners for this, because a lot of Liverpool fans were probably like myself and very much conflicted on whether he should stay or go. It's not an unjustifiable sacking, when you take our league form and off-the-pitch antics into account.

The absolutely crucial thing, of course, is appointing the right man to replace him. Liverpool are now in a position where we literally cannot afford another mistake. We can't have another mess like Hodgson's reign. More than that, and before we appoint a manager, we need a director of football who will impose an unshakeable philosophy on the club - a philosophy which will dictate the shortlist of managers.

The contenders, as I see them:

Martinez: Hasn't really 'done' a lot, but clearly a bright manager with bags of potential. A cheap option.

AVB: Did really well in a poor league, and won the UEFA Cup. Failed spectacularly at Chelsea, much of it his own fault. Would be a massive, massive risk. If we're looking at him based on his time at Porto, we should be looking at Steve McClaren too, surely...

Rodgers: He plays nice football and it would fit with the 'pass and move' tradition of the club. Totally unproven, though. Another cheap option.

Lambert: Another bright, tactically astute manager, but sometimes seems a bit of a 'tinkerman'. Again, unproven and cheap.

Bielsa: Left-field option. Tactics maybe a bit avant-garde for a league still weening itself off 4-4-2. Impressive record and very highly regarded. Bit of a fiery character though, and not sure how good is English is. Not sure if he'd leave Bilbao either.

Klopp: Off the back of a German domestic double, and second title in two years. Plays great football, excellent motivator and tactician, but questionable record in Europe. Also probably wants to stay at Dortmund for another crack at the whip next year. Untested outside Germany.

Rafa: The owners are probably wary of going back to a former manager again, but hard to argue against him. He gets the club, he loves the club. He knows the league, he knows the players. Has a proven record. Would answer a big 'What if?'

Capello: A born winner, he's done it in Spain and Italy, but his stint with the England team raises concerns. Has a history of falling out with players too, so I doubt things would be plain sailing. Out of work though, so not massively expensive.

Lowe: Hasn't done great at club level, but has the German team playing probably the best football on the planet. Might not want to hang around another two years to take Germany to Brazil, but will be in big demand if he decides to move on.

Then we have... Blanc, Deschamps, Van Gaal, Pardew, Mourinho, Guardiola, Emery, Pellligrini, Jorge Jesus, De Boer, Hamann, Di Canio, Rodolfo Borrel

Happy Monday

Leiva wrote: »

I would say there are a few Liverpool players quaking in their boots, and rightly so .

You think they give a fcuk?
Andy Carroll was laughing his head off fron the bench before the FA Cup Final.
Those donkies signed fat contracts 12 months ago.

doc_17

Rafa, Rafa, Rafa

Dub13

Strongbow10 wrote: »

Thats all well and good, but SOS would want to realise that they have not been appointed to speak on behalf of every fan like they seem to think they have been.

Nobody said the SOS speak for all fans,not sure were you got that from.But it is a large democratic organization for all LFC fans.If you have a statement from another similar organization feel free to post it up so nobody feels left out.

I put that statement up as some people in here were not aware the the SOS is still very active.

5starpool

mike65 wrote: »

The internet didn't see off Dalglish (which is full of apologists btw) 130 million quid and 8th place (plus Suarez controversy) did that.

Leaving aside the Kenny thing, if I recall correctly, Ferguson finished 2nd in his first full season, then followed by 11th and 13th. If someone new came into OT after he leaves and does that, do you think he gets to the end of his second season, never mind his first? I realise their place in football is different now to what it was then, but from 2nd to 11th and 13th?

doc_17

doc_17 wrote: »

Sad day for the club. The only man I'd want now is Rafa. You can take Martinez, Lambert and Rodgers and shove up your backside. He won't have the backing of the fans.

When Hodgson came in he never had a chance for 2 reasons, the other being that he stepped into the shoes of a popular and likeable manager.

If we sack a legend like Kenny after 1 full season then we'd dump Martinez after 2 defeats

I agree with some of your post but you can be certain that whoever the manager match going fans will get behind him.

Dub13

Dub13 wrote: »

Nobody said the SOS speak for all fans,not sure were you got that form.But it is a large democratic organization for all LFC fans.If you have a statement from another similar organization feel free to post it up so nobody feels left out.

I put that statement up as some people in here were not aware the the SOS is still very active.

I see no harm putting it up when you see some of the shite posted in here!

NabyLadistheman

Kenny's missus - Out for dinner with fiends and family! feels like a wake but the corpse keeps chipping in!

Gonna miss Kenny's quick whit and more than a manager attitude. Never forget the win at Chelsea in the cup, the bear-hug in had for bellers when he came off. It was around the time Gary Speed passed away. Only beginning to realise how gutted Kenny will be with the decision.

Say FSG will be getting the jist of it from fans reaction too. They had better deliver a big upgrade on what we had. All the best to Kenny as well, a true club legend. Anyone that thinks his reputation has been damaged after what's happened need to think again. He is Mr. LFC & I am not old enough to remember him as a player / manager

Blatter

daithijjj wrote: »

I do believe they affected our team. We got drawn away from home every round, 2 legs against City, could be argued that some players started protecting themselves (which was not good enough but the manager didnt suggest it), anyway, enough of that.

When you say "leeway", you should look closer to home. Sorry to bring it up but Alex Ferguson spent heavily over 3 years '88/89/90 before it started to pay off, its true, he got lucky, you know it, he knows it, everyone knows it. Sure it was a different game but 'stability' and 'patience' are still the same old same old.

Our issue was scoring goals, nothing else, a striker should have come in, i wouldnt say it was a sackable offence. Carragher played less than half a season, he is and was on the way out, even for Kenny. Carroll never showed anything in alot of games, if he played him and played rubbish he would be accused of being too loyal, we played without Carroll at Norwich and were great, whats a man to do but start that team in the cup final?. Carroll has been a different man since he went to Newcastle again for that game, it was only 6 weeks ago he really showed up for the season. The Suarez saga was a club issue, the chain of command were as useful as tits on a bull, thats why we have a former FA chief exec come in to do a review of that part of the club and wield axes.

What does being out of the game for 10 years mean to our owners?, they are the same men who signed him up for 3 years. Either they made a brutal decision giving the contract or a brutal decision sacking him, whatever the outcome of deliberations, as far as we are concerned as fans, at least one brutal decision was made, possibly 2 depending on your view. Its the owners that have lost confidence today in a significant section, i dont know who said it but i like it..........'the only thing that beats Kings, is Aces, over to you FSG'......because we will be here when you show your hand and long after.

Well my point still stands that the team didn't play more games this season than they have done over the last several years because of no Europe. I really think the affect of the cup runs is being overstated, the squad should have been big enough to deal with them. If you were in Europe as well, you'd have a valid point, but you weren't.

Ferguson was a different kettle of fish and isn't comparable to this situation. He had just broke the Old Firm dominance in Scotland and had won a European competition with Aberdeen, beating Real Madrid in the final. He was a young and it was clear he had the talent to be a top manager, if he was persisted with.

Dalglish on the other hand is 61, was out of the game for over a decade and the last time he achieved anything of note was with Blackburn in 1995, 17 years ago. Things weren't going well and there was little indication that he was going to turn things around.

We'll have to disagree on Liverpool's only problem being the lack of a goalscorer. The defense has been shambolic since the turn of the year, the wide players are no where near good enough for a side with top 4 aspirations and the same applies to the CM with the exception of Lucas.

DDC1990

What about Claudio Ranieri.

Always admired him, he seems very shrewd, and is looking for a job.

Was very good at Chelsea, and has experience of the Premier League.

Was really impressed with him on ESPN's prematch coverage of the FA Cup final, and said he'd love to work in the Premier League again.

He's the srt of name that could attract players from abroad as well, as opposed to Rodgers or Lambert.

I know he was looking into the West Brom job, but im sure if Liverpool came looking he'd consider us.

speedboatchase

As a non-Liverpool fan, appointing Rafa appears to me at least to be the same retrograde, fan-pleasing appointment that Dalglish was. In the case of Dalglish it won FSW instant respect from the fans but there was always the cavaet that if it didn't work out, they'd have to give him more time due to his legendary status and face a backlash if he got sacked.

I reckon they'd be making the same mistake if they appointed Rafa, with the exact same pitfalls. They appointed Kenny, they gave him plenty to spend and it didn't work out. Surely this time they should be allowed appoint whoever they want (and go for a young, relatively unproven manager if they wish) after giving fans everyone they at least thought that they wanted last year - the return of Dalglish and big-money signings.

The likes of Klopp and Loew are pie-in-the-sky thinking for the next manager (far too successful and still ambitious where they are now) but I do think that a Martinez or Martin O'Niell would be the right move. As someone mentioned earlier, I think people are underestimating the risk with appointing AVB - things went downhill with Chelsea very fast and his hefty contract buy-out cost kept him in work a lot longer than it should have.

Chucky the tree

speedboatchase wrote: »

As a non-Liverpool fan, appointing Rafa appears to me at least to be the same retrograde, fan-pleasing appointment that Dalglish was. In the case of Dalglish it won FSW instant respect from the fans but there was always the cavaet that if it didn't work out, they'd have to give him more time due to his legendary status and face a backlash if he got sacked.

I reckon they'd be making the same mistake if they appointed Rafa, with the exact same pitfalls. They appointed Kenny, they gave him plenty to spend and it didn't work out. Surely this time they should be allowed appoint whoever they want (and go for a young, relatively unproven manager if they wish) after giving fans everyone they at least thought that they wanted last year - the return of Dalglish and big-money signings.

The likes of Klopp and Loew are pie-in-the-sky thinking for the next manager (far too successful and still ambitious where they are now) but I do think that a Martinez or Martin O'Niell would be the right move. As someone mentioned earlier, I think people are underestimating the risk with appointing AVB - things went downhill with Chelsea very fast and his hefty contract buy-out cost kept him in work a lot longer than it should have.

If FSG want Rodgers, Lambert, Pardew or Martinez they can **** off tbh.

Vanolder

What's going on?

http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/01894/Kenny_Dalglish-deb_1894086i.jpg

http://www.kopsource.com/wp-content/postimages/Kenny-Dalglish-scores-European-Cup-winner-1978.jpg


http://www.kopsource.com/wp-content/postimages/Kenny-Dalglish-scores-1986-title-winner-vs-Chelsea-289x300.jpg

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2011/01/16/article-1347676-0CC969E4000005DC-192_306x423.jpg

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2011/02/06/article-0-0D111A6B000005DC-458_634x429.jpg

http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/58733000/jpg/_58733028_kenny_dalglish_getty.jpg

http://images.icnetwork.co.uk/upl/liverpoolecho/may2012/1/6/image-3-for-kenny-dalglish-the-story-of-his-liverpool-fc-return-so-far-gallery-84185097.jpg


Cheers Kenny

paddy kerins

Dont be at yourself wrote: »

Then we have... Blanc, Deschamps, Van Gaal, Pardew, Mourinho, Guardiola, Emery, Pellligrini, Jorge Jesus, De Boer, Hamann, Di Canio, Rodolfo Borrel

Is he leaving the France job after the Euros or something? Why does his name keep cropping up?

delw

daithijjj wrote: »

I do believe they affected our team. We got drawn away from home every round, 2 legs against City, could be argued that some players started protecting themselves (which was not good enough but the manager didnt suggest it), anyway, enough of that.

When you say "leeway", you should look closer to home. Sorry to bring it up but Alex Ferguson spent heavily over 3 years '88/89/90 before it started to pay off, its true, he got lucky, you know it, he knows it, everyone knows it. Sure it was a different game but 'stability' and 'patience' are still the same old same old.

Our issue was scoring goals, nothing else, a striker should have come in, i wouldnt say it was a sackable offence. Carragher played less than half a season, he is and was on the way out, even for Kenny. Carroll never showed anything in alot of games, if he played him and played rubbish he would be accused of being too loyal, we played without Carroll at Norwich and were great, whats a man to do but start that team in the cup final?. Carroll has been a different man since he went to Newcastle again for that game, it was only 6 weeks ago he really showed up for the season. The Suarez saga was a club issue, the chain of command were as useful as tits on a bull, thats why we have a former FA chief exec come in to do a review of that part of the club and wield axes.

What does being out of the game for 10 years mean to our owners?, they are the same men who signed him up for 3 years. Either they made a brutal decision giving the contract or a brutal decision sacking him, whatever the outcome of deliberations, as far as we are concerned as fans, at least one brutal decision was made, possibly 2 depending on your view. Its the owners that have lost confidence today in a significant section, i dont know who said it but i like it..........'the only thing that beats Kings, is Aces, over to you FSG'......because we will be here when you show your hand and long after.

If i could thank this twice i would,super post

5starpool

rarnes1 wrote: »

http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/01894/Kenny_Dalglish-deb_1894086i.jpg

http://www.kopsource.com/wp-content/postimages/Kenny-Dalglish-scores-European-Cup-winner-1978.jpg


http://www.kopsource.com/wp-content/postimages/Kenny-Dalglish-scores-1986-title-winner-vs-Chelsea-289x300.jpg

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2011/01/16/article-1347676-0CC969E4000005DC-192_306x423.jpg

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2011/02/06/article-0-0D111A6B000005DC-458_634x429.jpg

http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/58733000/jpg/_58733028_kenny_dalglish_getty.jpg

http://images.icnetwork.co.uk/upl/liverpoolecho/may2012/1/6/image-3-for-kenny-dalglish-the-story-of-his-liverpool-fc-return-so-far-gallery-84185097.jpg


Cheers Kenny

Dude, image tags, seriously. It's not that hard. It's the yellow and greyish box 8 from the left when in advanced post mode. Try it out, it'll be a revelation to you.

speedboatchase

Chucky the tree wrote: »

If FSG want Rodgers, Lambert, Pardew or Martinez they can **** off tbh.

LMA Manager of the Year Pardew?

Dont be at yourself

speedboatchase wrote: »

LMA Manager of the Year Pardew?

LMA Manager of the Year Hodgson?


I like Pardew, but need to be careful in hiring managers off the back of isolated success.

Hannibal

speedboatchase wrote: »

LMA Manager of the Year Pardew?

Hodgson, Coppell, Burley, Kinnear, Jones, Wilson, Reid are all previous winners of that gong

murpho999

5starpool wrote: »

Dude, image tags, seriously. It's not that hard. It's the yellow and greyish box 8 from the left when in advanced post mode. Try it out, it'll be a revelation to you.

Rarnes is like someone who with older mobiles refused to use T9 texting!

5starpool

9 months ago if someone had seriously suggested Alan Pardew or Roberto Martinez as Liverpool manager this summer they would have been carted off for treatment. Such is the changeable nature of opinion these days I guess.

daithijjj

5starpool wrote: »

The list of "what the fúck are they on" LFC related posters that I disagree with before they've even posted on this forum has increased from about 2 a couple of years ago, to close to 10 now at this stage. It's a worrying trend, and I'm relatively tolerant.

Im going to bit it all down to the grieving process, shock, numbness for now, for myself and everyone else. Some crazy talk happening, people cant think straight.

Liverpool fan outside Anfield on TV :"Problem with Kenny is you should never go back" Reporter:"Who would you have now?" "Rafa"

speedboatchase

True but look what he's done with very stringent resources and he's never had a particularly large budget. I think expectations are going to be inflated in the next few days due to meaningless speculation articles (as I've said, the likes of Klopp will not take this job but will keep cropping up) but I think some fans have to temper their expectations and see things from FSW's point of view - they can't repeat the money spent, approach and overall result of last season.

murpho999

Dont be at yourself wrote: »

LMA Manager of the Year Hodgson?


I like Pardew, but need to be careful in hiring managers off the back of isolated success.

Still haven't forgiven Pardew for his goal for Palace in Cup Semi Final 1990!

Really have no idea what I want. I thought AVB was a disaster at Chelsea and his interviews bore the hole off me.

Martinez, Lambert & Rodgers have not done enough for me and have no big club experience.

Rafa, the populist choice but I think FSG will steer away from appointing a former manager again.

Really don't know who it should be but either way the club is now facing its most important decision in years.

The next manager has got to be a success, otherwise the FSG ownership will be a faiiure, fans will turn on them and the club will be set back years.

Mr Alan

murpho999 wrote: »

I thought AVB was a disaster at Chelsea and his interviews bore the hole off me.

What's that got to do with anything?!

5starpool

speedboatchase wrote: »

True but look what he's done with very stringent resources and he's never had a particularly large budget. I think expectations are going to be inflated in the next few days due to meaningless speculation articles (as I've said, the likes of Klopp will not take this job but will keep cropping up) but I think some fans have to temper their expectations and see things from FSW's point of view - they can't repeat the money spent, approach and overall result of last season.

Pardew I believe has almost no input into the players coming into the club, so I'm not sure what credit he can get for any of the astute signings made over the last 18 months there. I'm fairly sure Klopp would not be interested either, and some of the names being mentioned are just fanciful. That is no reason to straightaway aim for a Martinez/Rodgers/Pardew though. If they do not show ambition off the pitch, how can they expect results on it? There will not be a huge budget this summer I'd imagine, probably 20m + money raised from sales, with no top notch wages being spent. A bigger name manager is a sign of ambition, and I can't imagine the continents finest signing for us with a lot of the mooted names in charge given our recent finishes.

K-9

Blatter wrote: »

Ferguson was a different kettle of fish and isn't comparable to this situation. He had just broke the Old Firm dominance in Scotland and had won a European competition with Aberdeen, beating Real Madrid in the final. He was a young and it was clear he had the talent to be a top manager, if he was persisted with.

Rafa would have been more comparable.

Devilman40k

Either AVB or Rafa , Villas-Boas has a point to prove after Chelsea, and he wont be assistant to John Terry!

5starpool

Mr Alan wrote: »

What's that got to do with anything?!

Apparently 'media work' comes in just below 'tactics' and 'man management' in the list of important things for managers these days.

One point on this though, is that the media already have a taste for AVB's flesh, so wouldn't wait too long to get stuck in if he was at Liverpool either I'd say.

Mr Alan

**** the media to be perfectly honest

They had it in for Rafa from year 1 & he gave us some of the best times of our lives

amiable

AVB now clear favourite with all the bookies