Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 11/12 (End of March 2012 onwards)

Kerrigooney

missingtime wrote: »

Gareth Barry is not as good as Alonso but he had a big part in Manchester Citys league win so he's not crap by any means.

Sorry,my computer seems to have gone bonkers...no,he`s nt crap but I know who i1d rather in my team.

murpho999

Sir Gallagher wrote: »

Kenny signed Jordan Henderson for a price that Benitez refused to pay for Barry. Puts thing into perspective.

Only because H&G wouldn't give him the money though!

delw

niallo27 wrote: »

I know when he started Renia out on the left wing it was the final straw.

After some of Renia's performances in goal this season may be he should be out there

doc_17

Had we signed Barry we would have got a good 5 years out of him. Whilst still expensive it wouldn't have been the worst signing our club ever made.

People forget as well that Alonso had a dip in form for a year before the 08/09 season. I'd still have kept him though. Pure class.

Dub13

Rafa wanted Alonso and Barry.

Sappy404

Sir Gallagher wrote: »

Kerrigooney wrote: »

Maybe "rubbish" was a bit much but we were no fun to watch and the reason we lost our player of the year (Alonso) is because Rafa wanted Gareth Barry. Gareth bloody Barry!

Kenny signed Jordan Henderson for a price that Benitez refused to pay for Barry. Puts thing into perspective.

Do you honestly Think Benitez had the money to spend on Barry but just elected not to spend it? Seriously?

opr

If Rafa isn't appointed and the new man struggles expect to hear his name ring around Anfield.

Opr

willowthewisp

Dub13 wrote: »

Rafa wanted Alonso and Barry.

But he was prepared to sell Alonso in summer 08 to fund the Barry deal.

Sappy404

willowthewisp wrote: »

But he was prepared to sell Alonso in summer 08 to fund the Barry deal.

... because someone spunked £19m+ on Robbie Keane.

Apologies for the mental image.

Leiva

Dub13 wrote: »

Rafa wanted Alonso and Barry.

Dub you met the man .

Whats your hunch ?

Is he in with a shout ?

Dub13

willowthewisp wrote: »

But he was prepared to sell Alonso in summer 08 to fund the Barry deal.

You may be intrested in this from Irishkop.

A Questions and Answers Session With Peter Hooton

This bit in particular...

Peter Hooton wrote: »

I like Rafa even though he can be frustrating. What I like about him is that he is totally obsessed with football. He fell out with Xabi because he chose to be at the birth of his child rather than play for Liverpool at the San Siro. The Valencia team that he brought to Anfield six or seven years ago played some superb stuff some of the best one touch football I have seen at Anfield. Last season our run-in was absolutely fantastic and if Parry had listened to Benitez and acted on his instructions we would have had Barry, Alves, Malouda and Rodwell in the squad. I know this as FACT!


We had a 4hour meeting with Rafa last year and he told us everything. It was like a theatrical performance. He told us all this selling Alonso for Barry was nonsense and that he wanted Alonso and Barry but Parry rushed through a deal for Keane because he was on Rafa's list therefore spending the whole transfer budget it was only then he considered selling Alonso but not for a cut down price that Parry had agreed with Juve 12mill I think he said. He said Keane was on his list but like Babel was right down his list of priorities whereas Barry was top of the list but Parry didn't fancy him and obviously told the Yanks not to buy him but Keane instead. With Barry in the squad last year I think we could have won the league.

Dub13

Leiva wrote: »

Dub you met the man .

Whats your hunch ?

Is he in with a shout ?

My hunch is he is not in the running,they are just doing this to appease the fans.I don't think they ever wanted Kenny really and there is noway they are going to go for another 'fans choice'.

In saying that,Rafa is a better choice than most of the realistic names been mentioned.

willowthewisp

Dub13 wrote: »

You may be intrested in this from Irishkop.

A Questions and Answers Session With Peter Hooton

This bit in particular...

I don’t really care what Peter Hooton has to say to be honest.
People can try to rewrite history and ignore facts as much as they like, but it was openly known that in 2008, Rafa was prepared to sell Xabi Alonso. Juventus bid for him and Arsenal were interested too. Neither were prepared to pay the circa £18m that we wanted and the offers were only about £12/13m. I even recall Rafa speaking about how the potential sale helped Xabi to perform at a higher level in the 08/09 season.

Edit..I misread the previous post

Knex*

willowthewisp wrote: »

I don’t really care what Peter Hooton has to say to be honest.
People can try to rewrite history and ignore facts as much as they like, but it was openly known that in 2008, Rafa was prepared to sell Xabi Alonso. Juventus bid for him and Arsenal were interested too. Neither were prepared to pay the circa £18m that we wanted and the offers were only about £12/13m. I even recall Rafa speaking about how the potential sale helped Xabi to perform at a higher level in the 08/09 season.

[LOUD NOISES]Is that not more or less what Peter Hooton said?[/LOUD NOISES]

If you read what Dub13 posted properly, and clearly you haven't, you'd know that. Plus, it gives background to the logic and the circumstances behind it all.

Benitez is a Saint for putting up with H&G along with Rick Parry.

Jesus Wept

Let's say it's true that we have £30m to invest in the squad and let's say that player sales will add to that.

Let's also say that the new man/s is capable of spotting a bargain and replacing outgoing players with others of similar or equal standard for less than other teams are willing to pay for our established players.

How much would we get for GlenJo? There was talk of interest from the top Spanish sides, might just be paper talk but if not? He'll be 28 in August, if a good offer came in and our manager knows his stuff, he may be able to replace him with a good undervalued younger player (perhaps on lower wages) and increase our transfer budget in the process.

I like Glen but it may be worth considering if there was interest at a good price.

Knex*

Andy Carroll wrote: »

Let's say it's true that we have £30m to invest in the squad and let's say that player sales will add to that.

Let's also say that the new man/s is capable of spotting a bargain and replacing outgoing players with others of similar or equal standard for less than other teams are willing to pay for our established players.

How much would we get for GlenJo? There was talk of interest from the top Spanish sides, might just be paper talk but if not? He'll be 28 in August, if a good offer came in and our manager knows his stuff, he may be able to replace him with a good undervalued younger player (perhaps on lower wages) and increase our transfer budget in the process.

I like Glen but it may be worth considering if there was interest at a good price.

I don't like the idea of selling him tbh, it could be like Arbeloa all over again but at a higher transfer price.

We don't really have anyone to cover for him for a full season, Kelly is young and injury prone. Add to that, Johnson's ability to play left back quite efficiently (still a problem area for us) we really can't afford to lose him I feel.

I wouldn't even know where to start looking for another right back of his standard that is, A. Attainable, and B. Better value.

Jesus Wept

Knex. wrote: »

I don't like the idea of selling him tbh, it could be like Arbeloa all over again but at a higher transfer price.

We don't really have anyone to cover for him for a full season, Kelly is young and injury prone. Add to that, Johnson's ability to play left back quite efficiently (still a problem area for us) we really can't afford to lose him I feel.

I wouldn't even know where to start looking for another right back of his standard that is, A. Attainable, and B. Better value.

True, but Rafa would. And it'd squeeze some more cash into the transfer budget. He'd obviously have to be replaced.

Anyhow, pie in the sky. We'll probably get a different manager and proceed to make random signings. :-/

willowthewisp

Knex. wrote: »

[LOUD NOISES]Is that not more or less what Peter Hooton said?[/LOUD NOISES]

If you read what Dub13 posted properly, and clearly you haven't, you'd know that. Plus, it gives background to the logic and the circumstances behind it all.

Benitez is a Saint for putting up with H&G along with Rick Parry.

There's no doubt about that.
I guess my point is that he did consider selling Alonso to allow him have Barry in the team.

Knex*

Andy Carroll wrote: »

True, but Rafa would. And it'd squeeze some more cash into the transfer budget. He'd obviously have to be replaced.

Anyhow, pie in the sky. We'll probably get a different manager and proceed to make random signings. :-/

I'd have a huge amount of faith in Rafa in the transfer market. Unfortunately buying full backs was a stick that was quite often used to beat his record with, so maybe we should leave Johnson and Enrique put for the time being

That said, Arbeloa and Aurelia were fantastic cheap deals for the club so I'd be quite confident of him signing someone of a high standard if that was the route he chose to go down.

Look at us, talking about Rafa in the transfer market like the old days! Unfortunately there's probably no hope for him after the posted comments from Ayre.

Chardee MacDennis

let's all not forget how mediocre Alonso had been the season before "Rafa tried to sell him" and that his best season at LFC was the 2008/2009 season by a LOOONG way.

plasmaguy

Knex. wrote: »

I'd have a huge amount of faith in Rafa in the transfer market. Unfortunately buying full backs was a stick that was quite often used to beat his record with, so maybe we should leave Johnson and Enrique put for the time being

That said, Arbeloa and Aurelia were fantastic cheap deals for the club so I'd be quite confident of him signing someone of a high standard if that was the route he chose to go down.

Look at us, talking about Rafa in the transfer market like the old days! Unfortunately there's probably no hope for him after the posted comments from Ayre.

Aquillani?

Robbie Keane?

Babel?

He spent big on average players who ended up being squad players, ran out of money and was forced to bring in poor players on free transfers, Vorenan, etc.

amiable

BastardPrince wrote: »

let's all not forget how mediocre Alonso had been the season before "Rafa tried to sell him" and that his best season at LFC was the 2008/2009 season by a LOOONG way.

You mean the season he was injured and only played 19 league games and took time to recover from the serious injury?

Blatter

plasmaguy wrote: »

Aquillani?

Robbie Keane?

Babel?

He spent big on average players who ended up being squad players, ran out of money and was forced to bring in poor players on free transfers, Vorenan, etc.

And what about Torres, Alonso, Reina, Mascherano, Arbeloa, Agger, Skrtel, Kuyt etc?

Are you just going to ignore his good signing and concentrate on his bad ones (he didn't even sign Keane!)?

Overall Benitez did far more good than bad in the transfer market whilst at Liverpool.

Dont be at yourself

This discussion is exactly why appointing Rafa is a bad idea, sadly.

Chardee MacDennis

amiable wrote: »

You mean the season he was injured and only played 19 league games and took time to recover from the serious injury?

he played 28 games that season and he looked a shadow of the player he was. who knew what he had left in him.

Vudgie

'Are we there yet, are we there yet?'

While in some sick and twisted way these are exciting times for Liverpool FC the sooner we can get people talking about our football the better after the year that we have had.

I really feel for Kenny and I don't think he leaves us diminished in most fan's eyes. I hated his conduct witht he press generally but that was his style and so be it.

Having watched the Barca documentary last night that someone kindly posted it is clear that we need the board level of the club functioning nearly as coherently as the team on the pitch and therefore the director of football role is a big one I think particualrly with somewhat disconnected owners.

I have limited preference who I would like to see get the job though i would like the appointment to be made as quickly as possible but only on the basis that we get one of our top choices.

Sir Gallagher

Andy Carroll wrote: »

Let's say it's true that we have £30m to invest in the squad and let's say that player sales will add to that.

Let's also say that the new man/s is capable of spotting a bargain and replacing outgoing players with others of similar or equal standard for less than other teams are willing to pay for our established players.

How much would we get for GlenJo? There was talk of interest from the top Spanish sides, might just be paper talk but if not? He'll be 28 in August, if a good offer came in and our manager knows his stuff, he may be able to replace him with a good undervalued younger player (perhaps on lower wages) and increase our transfer budget in the process.

I like Glen but it may be worth considering if there was interest at a good price.

I think we need to hang on to our better players and can't be taking risks in that department at the moment.

wcarey1975

plasmaguy wrote: »

Aquillani?

Robbie Keane?

Babel?

He spent big on average players who ended up being squad players, ran out of money and was forced to bring in poor players on free transfers, Vorenan, etc.

who?

mayordenis

plasmaguy wrote: »

Aquillani?

Robbie Keane?

Babel?

He spent big on average players who ended up being squad players, ran out of money and was forced to bring in poor players on free transfers, Vorenan, etc.

That's not even ****ing close to chronologically correct. Voronin was signed on a free before any of them. The rest of your point is total nonsense too, but at least get the order of events somewhat right.

amiable

BastardPrince wrote: »

he played 28 games that season and he looked a shadow of the player he was. who knew what he had left in him.

19 league games as I said in my original post on this.
I don't think there was any season that Alonso played exactly 28 games for Liverpool

Leiva

After re-reading Ian Ayres latest Interview I am resigned to the fact that Martinez will be our next manager .

It seems FSG are going to structure it like so :

DOF - to be employed.
Segura - Promoted to new role.
Martinez - Coaching and coachng only, but Ayre says will have final word on signings .

They wont put a strong personality like Rafa in the managers role. They want to spread the responsibilty .

Dont be at yourself

Seriously lads, are we still going to be arguing about Gareth Barry and Xabi Alonso for the next 100 years? Let it go...

amiable

Dont be at yourself wrote: »

Seriously lads, are we still going to be arguing about Gareth Barry and Xabi Alonso for the next 100 years? Let it go...

Well if you don't like it.......

Chardee MacDennis

amiable wrote: »

19 league games as I said in my original post on this.
I don't think there was any season that Alonso played 28 games for Liverpool

i didnt disagree with you! But he played 28 games overall - which is enough to judge a player on when back from injury i feel.

also he started 29 league games in 2005/2006 & 2006/2007 and started 27 games in 2008/2009.

Sir Gallagher

Dont be at yourself wrote: »

Seriously lads, are we still going to be arguing about Gareth Barry and Xabi Alonso for the next 100 years? Let it go...

amiable wrote: »

Well if you don't like it.......

Nah he's right in fairness. Can't wait til this manager business is sorted out. I have a feeling there might be a few bob in the kitty this summer.

murpho999

Sir Gallagher wrote: »

Nah he's right in fairness. Can't wait til this manager business is sorted out. I have a feeling there might be a few bob in the kitty this summer.

But you know what's going to happen.

If Rafa doesn't get the job then the next season's thread will be ruined by pro--Rafa people criticising transfers and every defeat, draw and conceded goal.

The if he does get the job the non-Rafa posters will be posting on and on about how you shouldn't go back etc.

Really the effect of Rafa on this thread has been unreal since he left and it show's no sign of letting up!

Jesus Wept

Leiva wrote: »

After re-reading Ian Ayres latest Interview I am resigned to the fact that Martinez will be our next manager .

It seems FSG are going to structure it like so :

DOF - to be employed.
Segura - Promoted to new role.
Martinez - Coaching and coachng only, but Ayre says will have final word on signings .

They wont put a strong personality like Rafa in the managers role. They want to spread the responsibilty .

Ayre? How is he qualified to make such a call? :-/

Leiva

Andy Carroll wrote: »

Ayre? How is he qualified to make such a call? :-/

Sorry the way I wrote that was poor (on the phone )

New manager will have the final say on signings says Ayre, but will solely concentrate on coaching.

tok9

murpho999 wrote: »

Really the effect of Rafa on this thread has been unreal since he left and it show's no sign of letting up!

I think that just shows how much he did for us. He really did give us experiences and memories that were few and far between before and after him!

I really would love to see him back managing Liverpool.

Rekop dog

Leiva wrote: »

Sorry the way I wrote that was poor (on the phone )

New manager will have the final say on signings says Ayre, but will solely concentrate on coaching.

Bit of a contradiction there.

jasonb

In my opinion, Rafa's the best manager we've had since the 80s, and he gave us some great victories and memories as fans.

As somone else said here, of all the 'realistic' options, he's probably the most qualified, but his history ( with the fans who don't like him, he has no history with the new owners ) might cause problems ( once again, with the fans ). That, and the fact that the role that the owners seem to be describing doesn't seem to suit him, would suggest he might not come back.

In the end, we've no idea what the owners have planned. If it's what Ayre is hinting towards, it'll be much more of 3 or 4 people having different roles to help the team on the pitch, and not one manager in charge of everything. In that kind of role you'd imagine a younger, less experienced, manager might be more 'protected' ( for want of a better word ) and be able to make the step up.

When it comes down to it though, it's really hard to know exactly who they'll get, and whether it will work out or not. An excellent established manager might not succeed, and a younger inexperienced manager might just click.

All we can do is keep our fingers crossed. So far, once again in my opinion, the owners haven't done anything to make me go 'WTF?' so I have faith in them and their long term plans for the club...

J.

The Chessplayer

Kess73 wrote: »

Yep let's aim for the Martin O' Neills and Martinez type managers. Then again you were the very one on here a couple of days before Kenny was sacked saying that Chris Hughton and Alan Pardew were the kind of young managers you fancied for the Liverpool job over the likes of Deschamps and Benitez.


Plenty of us have said who we would like to see get the job.

Maybe you can actually say who you would like to get the job and why you think those candidates would be a good fit at Liverpool.

To help you here are four managers that you already mentioned as being the kind you would like,

Chris Hughton
Alan Pardew
Martin O' Neill
Roberto Martinez

All four are men that you said were quality candidates for the role and you have said so in the past few days on here, so tell me what those four offer that managers who have managed team to league titles and champions league titles do not offer.

Do you think those four are more experienced?
Do you think those four are tactically better?
Is there something else about those four that makes you think they would excel at Liverpool?

I'm not trying to take the piss out of you with this post, I am genuinely asking you to see if you can come out and say why you like the idea of the managers you yourself have mentioned and give reasons as to why yoy think they are better choices than many of the other managers mentioned.

I named my three favoured managers yesterday, three that I think might be realistic rather than my dream managers, and I said why.

My three were Rafa, Deschamps and AVB as a wildcard.

Hughton is turning into a very astute manager. Pardew has been a revelation at Newcastle. Martinez, on reflection, probably doesn't have the experience. If there was ever a time to bring in a young guy, not a big name, now is that time. We could secure any of these guys for an affordable sum. Having said that, maybe these guys aren't ready for LFC. It would be a bold call and could backfire badly such is the folly of sacking KD.

The anti-O'Neill bias is a bit sad. Can't stand these saddos with their "f*** off martin" posts. I do think he is a good manager, not overrated as you said, but I think the lack of stability at our club is worrying. My choice would be Rafael Benitez. He knows the club inside out and can run a tight ship.

Deschamps, AVB, Rijkaard, Van Gaal (who you were trumpeting the other day)...wouldn't take any of them. Is there maybe a guy in the Danish or Swiss leagues who we have overlooked? Please enlighten us.

This is not top trumps, Kess. We don't get 3 managers, only one man gets the job and let's hope it ain't Deschamps or Villa Boas.

retalivity

Holt has handed in a transfer request at norwich, his head has obviously been turned.

please not liverpool

Leiva

Rekop dog wrote: »

Bit of a contradiction there.

Yep.

That's why I said Ian Ayre is full of it .

If you ask me he and FSG are winging it.

Remember all the crap 18months ago about the last DOF and managerial roles, how great it is structured with everyone set to a common goal .

Well we are just being spoon fed the same crap wrapped up differently.

I hope to hell I'm wrong or these owners could destroy this club.

DrumSteve

retalivity wrote: »

Holt has handed in a transfer request at norwich, his head has obviously been turned.

please not liverpool

Why would we be buying players if we don't have a DOF, nevermind a manager?

plasmaguy

wcarey1975 wrote: »

who?

Pretty much the reaction of Liverpool fans when they were told he was joining.

retalivity

DrumSteve wrote: »

Why would we be buying players if we don't have a DOF, nevermind a manager?

stranger things have happened

Dr Galen

The Chessplayer wrote: »

Hughton is turning into a very astute manager.

Why do you say this?

Pardew has been a revelation at Newcastle.

He has been good this season no doubt, but pretty crap otherwise. He'll be a revelation when he repeats something close to this season, next year.

The anti-O'Neill bias is a bit sad. Can't stand these saddos with their "f*** off martin" posts. I do think he is a good manager, not overrated as you said,

What makes you hold O'Neill up as a good manager? Specifically

Deschamps, AVB, Rijkaard, Van Gaal (who you were trumpeting the other day)...wouldn't take any of them.

Why not, again, with some more idea around why you wouldn't take them

Is there maybe a guy in the Danish or Swiss leagues who we have overlooked? Please enlighten us.

I see what you did there

This is not top trumps, Kess. We don't get 3 managers, only one man gets the job and let's hope it ain't Deschamps or Villa Boas.

Again, why not. You've really failed to add anything at all constructive to the thread with your post tbh. Some backup to your opinions would be great.

missingtime

Andy Heaton ‏@Andrew_Heaton

See that 'exclusive' about Benitez on @ClickLiverpool has now been removed http://www.clickliverpool.com/sport/liverpool-fc/1216135-EXCLUSIVE-rafael-benitez-on-shortlist-to-become-liverpool-fc-manager.html

Ugh....

Thrill

retalivity wrote: »

Holt has handed in a transfer request at norwich, his head has obviously been turned.

please not liverpool

I've read that his request was rejected.