Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 11/12 (End of March 2012 onwards)

Melion

Ok, honest question here. If we finished in the bottom half of the table which is a serious possibility how will people feel? Should Kenny be given next season to try and make things right?

opr

Melion wrote: »

Ok, honest question here. If we finished in the bottom half of the table which is a serious possibility how will people feel? Should Kenny be given next season to try and make things right?

I am in the camp who couldn't care less now where we finish in the table. I would like Kenny to view this as kind of a 'pre' pre-season if that makes sense.

This post more or less outlines the kind of things I would like to see from now till the end of the season.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=77741450&postcount=9901

Muddying the waters is the fact we have an FA cup game coming up soon. Questions like does Kenny feel Coates can get up to speed in time for that match or does he need to try and keep Carragher as match fit as possible as he wants to go with experience.

I have read stuff this week that Kenny has been training very differently this week with emphasis on a more direct style of football. See stuff like that makes me sad because it isn't the road I want to go down. Kenny also said something in the press this week about changing the approach the team took to games.

Opr

Leiva

Melion wrote: »

Ok, honest question here. If we finished in the bottom half of the table which is a serious possibility how will people feel? Should Kenny be given next season to try and make things right?

Kenny next season makes total sense , but any new signings in the summer should be decided using a method and strategy that is at the polar opposite of the transfer policy to date.

Operation Young English talent is dead ....let Operation Suarez commence.

Build a team around the guy and it's guaranteed to be a Budgie - bound to suck-seed .

I'm here all evening folks !:pac:

wonderfullife

opr wrote: »

I am in the camp who couldn't care less now where we finish in the table. I would like Kenny to view this as kind of a 'pre' pre-season if that makes sense.

This post more or less outlines the kind of things I would like to see from now till the end of the season.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=77741450&postcount=9901

Muddying the waters is the fact we have an FA cup game coming up soon. Questions like does Kenny feel Coates can get up to speed in time for that match or does he need to try and keep Carragher as match fit as possible as he wants to go with experience.

I have read stuff this week that Kenny has been training very differently this week with emphasis on a more direct style of football. See stuff like that makes me sad because it isn't the road I want to go down. Kenny also said something in the press this week about changing the approach the team took to games.

Opr

From an owners perspective, i really doubt they'd go along with that. The difference between 6th and 11th place in prize money is about £4 million. Aside from that, any liverpool manager (even Dalglish) presiding over a 10th or 11th place season would surely get the chop.

Realistically i cant see any worse than where they are in 8th. Can definitely see tomorrow being a tough game and one they could leave empty handed, but beyond that the fixture list is far too kind for a slump. There is only maybe 1 very difficult game (chelsea at anfield) and the rest are emminently winnable games.

colly10

Melion wrote: »

Ok, honest question here. If we finished in the bottom half of the table which is a serious possibility how will people feel? Should Kenny be given next season to try and make things right?

No, if we finish in the bottom half he should be sacked. There is alot of rubbish in the side but we have the players to beat alot of these teams we're dropping points to.
Ultimately it's the responsibility of the manager to get the best out of the players and if we finish lower than 6th then he hasn't done it this year. No man is bigger than the club and that includes Kenny.

Winning the FA cup makes up for nothing in my mind. The table doesn't lie

colly10

wonderfullife wrote: »

the rest are emminently winnable games.

That completely ignores our form since January though. We really have to pick it up if we want to take points out of these games

Leiva

wonderfullife wrote: »

From an owners perspective, i really doubt they'd go along with that. The difference between 6th and 11th place in prize money is about £4 million. Aside from that, any liverpool manager (even Dalglish) presiding over a 10th or 11th place season would surely get the chop.

Realistically i cant see any worse than where they are in 8th. Can definitely see tomorrow being a tough game and one they could leave empty handed, but beyond that the fixture list is far too kind for a slump. There is only maybe 1 very difficult game (chelsea at anfield) and the rest are emminently winnable games.

If anyone thinks Kenny is going to sacrifice even one league position to blood new players they are very wrong .

wonderfullife

colly10 wrote: »

That completely ignores our form since January though. We really have to pick it up if we want to take points out of these games

true - and Blackburn away will be tricky, they're fighting for their lives and playing pretty well.

At the end of the day, football owners are businessmen. Common consensus seems to be if Liverpool win the FA Cup and finish 6th, everyone moves on. Genuinely though if Newcastle win tomorrow and the FA Cup semi goes wrong, that'll be that for Kenny i think.

richymcdermott

the fact we might end up winning two trophies in one season is brilliant in my eyes whatever position we might end up finishing.
i was not expecting we finish in top 4 this season having new guys playing with each other for the first time , man city are having no to show for the money they spent , do you think those fans will call for manchini head ?
took alex ferguson 3 years to win a trophy for united , i wonder what it would be like if they sacked him after first season , they wouldnt be where they are.
have the players performed to there highest degree ? no but thats hardly kenny fault , himself and comolli done their homework with the players , carroll was the most talked about upbringing england striker in the league and we needed a striker last minute cause torres was leaving , henderson had sunderland player of the year with i think 3rd highest assist stats , downing performed aswell for aston villa aswell , it just either the team low on morale or the team has not clicked yet , lads remember we are not what we were 5 years ago , gerrard is aging , mascherano , alonso , toress , they are all gone , we were on a brick of adminstration by two american assholes who didnt know nothing bout england foorball and nearly ruined the club . its about rebuilding , kenny no fool and im not living in dream land bout our league position , is it bad ? yes but i was happy we won a trophy after 6 years and pushing for 2 , arsenal would love to say they finally won a trophy but that drought still continues , man city spend colossal money more than us , no trophy . i wont be so quick to say ah just sack him now , last thing i want liverpool to turn to is to chelsea sacking every manager every season . not trying to stick it to other teams fans just making a point .. kenny only has 3 years on his contract , he atleast deserves a chance , we gave rafa 6

wonderfullife

richymcdermott wrote: »

took alex ferguson 3 years to win a trophy for united , i wonder what it would be like if they sacked him after first season , they wouldnt be where they are.

comparing era's is notoriously subjective. Messi vs Pele? Difficult to do. Usain Bolt v Carl Lewis, Federer v Borg, Woods v Niklaus....it's all difficult and based on opinion, as all they can be is the best in their own era with the technology and diet and training available.

In terms of management, though, it's most definitely easy. The 1980s and early 1990s (basically a pre-premier league era) is incomparable to today. Today football is business orientated, the money is incredible and tolerance for failure is just not there.

Time is a commodity managers do not have. The days of being given 3-4 years to shape a side are long gone. So forget Ferguson or any other manager who was given years; Kenny has to produce both results and forward progress. It's a case of building while doing reasonably well. He hasn't done that this season.

opr

wonderfullife wrote: »

From an owners perspective, i really doubt they'd go along with that. The difference between 6th and 11th place in prize money is about £4 million. Aside from that, any liverpool manager (even Dalglish) presiding over a 10th or 11th place season would surely get the chop.

The owners shouldn't have any input into the footballing side of things. Kenny would have to have been assured of his position next season regardless of the league finish. The other thing is I don't think the kind of changes outlined above will cost us positions in the league. If anything the net result would be negligible given how we are currently playing we can't do much worse. What it would mean is we would be better prepared in the long term and have a better idea of the squad.

wonderfullife wrote: »

Realistically i cant see any worse than where they are in 8th. Can definitely see tomorrow being a tough game and one they could leave empty handed, but beyond that the fixture list is far too kind for a slump. There is only maybe 1 very difficult game (chelsea at anfield) and the rest are emminently winnable games.

The thoughts of Cisse, Ba and Arfa running at us tomorrow aren't pleasant!

Opr

monkey9

Melion wrote: »

Ok, honest question here. If we finished in the bottom half of the table which is a serious possibility how will people feel? Should Kenny be given next season to try and make things right?

Yes, i would give Kenny next season to allow for progression. When he came in as caretaker, i was delighted. Firstly, to be rid of Hodgson. Secondly, for the nostalgia. But it was only ever til the end of the season or so i thought.

He deserved his three year deal when he got it because we had a fantastic second half of the season, one i couldn't have imagined. But,if next season is similar, then changes will need to be made.

wonderfullife

opr wrote: »

The owners shouldn't have any input into the footballing side of things. Kenny would have to have been assured of his position next season regardless of the league finish. The other thing is I don't think the kind of changes outlined above will cost us positions in the league. If anything the net result would be negligible given how we are currently playing we can't do much worse. What it would mean is we would be better prepared in the long term and have a better idea of the squad.



The thoughts of Cisse, Ba and Arfa running at us tomorrow aren't pleasant!

Opr

The thing is, if Newcastle win, the pressure is mounting on Kenny and on the underperforming side. I'm not so sure it's a great time to blood young players, with fans on the back of the team. Then again nothing in the way of progress can be achieved blindly sticking with Carra etc

opr

wonderfullife wrote: »

The thing is, if Newcastle win, the pressure is mounting on Kenny and on the underperforming side. I'm not so sure it's a great time to blood young players, with fans on the back of the team. Then again nothing in the way of progress can be achieved blindly sticking with Carra etc

You know I wouldn't even care if we didn't play the 'real kids' like Raheem for the rest of the season. I am more talking about the older ones who should be making the step up.

I want to see Henderson given an extended run in midfield. As you mention Carra, it just seems blooding Coates seems like such a no brainer. We are not talking about a kid the guy is an international player. Shelvey getting some starts etc etc

I am not saying all fans are going to react the same but as a fan I would give much more rope if I thought we were trying to build something for the future. It's the same rubbish performances but seeing Kenny not even trying to address the problems or try something different which is causing so much frustration.

Opr

djPSB

opr wrote: »

You know I wouldn't even care if we didn't play the 'real kids' like Raheem for the rest of the season. I am more talking about the older ones who should be making the step up.

I want to see Henderson given an extended run in midfield. As you mention Carra, it just seems blooding Coates seems like such a no brainer. We are not talking about a kid the guy is an international player. Shelvey getting some starts etc etc

I am not saying all fans are going to react the same but as a fan I would give much rope if I thought we were trying to build something for the future. It's the same rubbish performances but seeing Kenny not even trying to address the problems which is causing so much frustration.

Opr

If both Shelvey and Henderson were to start, does that mean Gerrard would need to be dropped? I think Carroll needs to play the remaining games so we can say for sure whether himself and Suarez can form a partnership. They haven't been given a consistent run of games together so far and the stats show that we win more games when Carroll starts.

mike65

There is absolutely nothing to be gained using the "old lags" like Carra and Kuyt if you can start younger squad players like Coates and Shelvey while giving Sterling some more game time.

djPSB

mike65 wrote: »

There is absolutely nothing to be gained using the "old lags" like Carra and Kuyt if you can start younger squad players like Coates and Shelvey while giving Sterling some more game time.

That makes sense but I'd be fairly sure Kuyt would want out in the summer if the younger players were getting game time ahead of him.

opr

djPSB wrote: »

If both Shelvey and Henderson were to start, does that mean Gerrard would need to be dropped? I think Carroll needs to play the remaining games so we can say for sure whether himself and Suarez can form a partnership. They haven't been given a consistent run of games together so far and the stats show that we win more games when Carroll starts.

No I want Carroll gone. Since I don't see him having a future at the club he shouldn't be featuring in the remaining games. The remaining games are about planning for the long term future not trying to win a few matches in the short term. This is of course in my plan

From what I have read it looks like we have been training this week to start playing much more to Andy's strength so I think you will get your wish.

Edit - I haven't really thought about team logistics like Gerrard but I am sure I'll still find him a spot.

Opr

mike65

Kuyt leaving is the least of Liverpools short to medium term strategic problems right now!

monkey9

mike65 wrote: »

There is absolutely nothing to be gained using the "old lags" like Carra and Kuyt if you can start younger squad players like Coates and Shelvey while giving Sterling some more game time.

Well, it all depends on the Cup semi final. Is he gonna play Carra if Agger doesn't make which he probably won't. If so, he could probably do with a run of games!

While i'm all up for blooding players, lets not go mad just because we won't get anywhere near a Champions League spot. I actually want to win a few games. The blooding of players should be done on a staggered basis.

djPSB

opr wrote: »

No I want Carroll gone. Since I don't see him having a future at the club he shouldn't be featuring in the remaining games. The remaining games are about planning for the long term future not trying to win a few matches in the short term. This is of course in my plan

From what I have read it looks like we have been training this week to start playing much more to Andy's strength so I think you will get your wish.

Edit - I haven't really thought about team logistics like Gerrard but I am sure I'll still find him a spot.

Opr

I'd like to see Carroll playing for the remainder of the season. It's a small risk to take considering we spent £35m on him. Suarez up front as a lone striker is a waste of time. The formation we played against Wigan is a waste of time.

It has to be 4-4-2 or 4-4-1-1 to get the best out of the squad. We played 4-4-2 against Stoke and Everton and won both quite easily. Suarez was excellent in both.

I think a more direct style of play might suit the players available.

opr

monkey9 wrote: »

Well, it all depends on the Cup semi final. Is he gonna play Carra if Agger doesn't make which he probably won't. If so, he could probably do with a run of games!

While i'm all up for blooding players, lets not go mad just because we won't get anywhere near a Champions League spot. I actually want to win a few games. The blooding of players should be done on a staggered basis.

Not looking to go mental just a good mix of youth and experience.

---

Reina

Kelly----Skrtel----Coates----Robinson

---

Henderson---Spearing

---

Shelvey

---

Gerrard

---

Downing

---

Suarez

---

Opr

cantgetright

Kenny will start the best 11 in his mind in the remaining matches. Most managers are stubborn and will stick by their signings and at the price's he paid it's a definite.

opr

djPSB wrote: »

I'd like to see Carroll playing for the remainder of the season. It's a small risk to take considering we spent £35m on him. Suarez up front as a lone striker is a waste of time. The formation we played against Wigan is a waste of time.

It has to be 4-4-2 or 4-4-1-1 to get the best out of the squad. We played 4-4-2 against Stoke and Everton and won both quite easily. Suarez was excellent in both.

I think a more direct style of play might suit the players available.

That's fine if you think long term it should be the plan to go direct but I really don't want to think that's the plan long term. Suarez as a lone striker is a waste if you don't get players around him but that doesn't mean Carroll should be one of those players.

cantgetright wrote: »

Kenny will start the best 11 in his mind in the remaining matches. Most managers are stubborn and will stick by their signings and at the price's he paid it's a definite.

In the formation I just posted Kenny is sticking by the players he signed apart from Carroll who he rightly hasn't really shown a great deal of faith in anyway.

Opr

cantgetright

In the formation I just posted Kenny is sticking by the players he signed apart from Carroll who he rightly hasn't really shown a great deal of faith in anyway.

Opr[/QUOTE]

I wasnt making any reference to what you had posted.
Only found out today via soccer saturday that we had no corners against Wigan. Shocking stuff considering we had somthing like 15 corners in the first 20 mins at QPR.

monkey9

opr wrote: »

Not looking to go mental just a good mix of youth and experience.

---

Reina

Kelly----Skrtel----Coates----Robinson

---

Henderson---Spearing

---

Shelvey

---

Gerrard

---

Downing

---

Suarez

---

Opr

That team reminds me, why the hell is Shelvey not geting more game time?? He had loads last season. I think Kenny is trying to justify his signings by playing them more. I'd have Shelvey in before Henderson and bearing in mind, i'm one of those who feels Henderson has a future at the club!!

killwill

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Hard to know. It's lol worthy because he's a terrible manager who plays very unattractive hoof ball.

Come off it, a terrible manager?
His achievements with Celtic and Villa suggest otherwise.
His short term achievements so far with Sunderland do also.

Leiva

There is a certain tone to some posts in here like we have already won the FA Cup ?

I think people better look at the reality that we could end the season around mid-table with the Carling Cup , cause there seems to be a lot of hope pinned on us winning the FA Cup , and looking at our recent form I don't think we will .

I still think progress is being made and with the amount of changes to the squad over the past 18months it's bound to take a season or two to click .

But I thinks it's important that people don't count their chickens before they hatch and pin all the hopes for this season on the FA Cup , as I'm kinda a glass half full person,and think it would be crazy to make it the be-all-and-end-all if we didn't win it , and then round2 of "Kenny out" begins .

mav79

It was great winning the cup, and like you mentioned it will be very difficult to win the fa cup. Its been frustrating the last few years in cup competitions. But the league is where you see how your team is really doing. I really don't see any improvements in the team in the last year, so I can't understand peoples faith that Kenny can change things next year.

~Rebel~

killwill wrote: »

Come off it, a terrible manager?
His achievements with Celtic and Villa suggest otherwise.
His short term achievements so far with Sunderland do also.

He is the definition of "Short term gain, long term pain".

Sunderland might get away with it, if they learn from his previous clubs mistakes and give him as little control in the transfer market as possible. He is the exact type of manager for which the role of "Director of Football" exists at clubs.

Leiva

mav79 wrote: »

It was great winning the cup, and like you mentioned it will be very difficult to win the fa cup. Its been frustrating the last few years in cup competitions. But the league is where you see how your team is really doing. I really don't see any improvements in the team in the last year, so I can't understand peoples faith that Kenny can change things next year.

I can sense your frustration which is totally understandable but take a step back for a minute and look ....
We don't have fundamental problems with the team , and have played really well in some games for a team that has had fundamental changes , with just not having the cutting edge to kill teams off .

So IMO we are not crap to the core and I can see our problems stemming from only a couple off issues this season;

• Badly lacking a striker in front of Suarez.-hence bad finishing.
• Lucas getting injured
• Carroll .(not getting into it )

I am not pretending to not see the Elephant in the room which is the big mistakes made in the transfer window , and I have said on many occasions that policy needs to be totally reversed .

I think it's important we don't throw out the baby with the bath water and Kenny gets his second season to correct the problems (he made) and continue the progression .

prettyboy81

My team for today without going mad fielding the youths, we need a win simples!

Reina

Kelly Coates Skrtel Enrique

Gerrard Henderson

Shelvey Suarez Downing

Carroll

Subs; Doni, Carra, Flanagan, Spearing, Maxi, Kuyt & Sterling

mav79

The loss of Lucas is huge, you can see the amount of cover he gives the back four now that he's missing.

Carroll we could talk about all day, whether its his attitude or his skill or the formation he's being played in.

The lack of a striker to play with Suarez is very obvious all you have to do is watch him for Uruguay and you can see how well he plays with a quality striker and a team with a bit of pace.

Now these three points have been glaringly obvious for the last five months, we've been through a transfer window and nothing was done about it. This is the reason my confidence in Kenny is gone.

Jesus Wept

opr wrote: »

I am in the camp who couldn't care less now where we finish in the table.

Opr

Could make it harder to attract decent players though? Finishing 10th/11th vs 6th. That said, I'm more concerned about our ability to choose targets.

Phoenix Park

The-Rigger wrote: »

Could make it harder to attract decent players though? Finishing 10th/11th vs 6th. That said, I'm more concerned about our ability to choose targets.

Hard to know. Sometimes i wonder if finishing eigth or ninth or so might act as a huge wake up call as to just how shambolic our signings last year were. Perhaps it will make John Henry and co realise that "moneyball" cannot be transfered to a fluid sport like soccer and they can't just buy Brits based on a few stats and expect real success. I'm just looking at the league table. We've won eleven games. Eleven. And its April!

Knex*

Over in America at the moment and have missed the last two matches, thankfully so it seems.
Hoping for a much better performance and result for the game later, getting up at 8 to watch them play shít/lose will actually drive me mental.
Plus, its after four in the morning here so I'll be watching it fairly bleary eyed

Haven't got to follow a lot over the last two weeks but from what I can gather Newcastle are in decent form with Cisse performing as expected, and Ba is still doing fairly good. I'm slightly worried for later but I honestly can't see us losing, simply because so many losses in a row is unimaginable to me.

Gonna go with a very, very, optimistic 2 nil win for Liverpool.

shotamoose

Interesting article by Dion Fanning here. Hadn't seen this quote from Carra before:

"We've got a great togetherness about the squad, there's a lot of British players there now," Jamie Carragher said last October. "We went for a meal out before the derby and it was interesting that my wife could actually talk to some of the other wives without having to think of something in Spanish or French or something different. I think that will be a great thing for us this season."

Phoenix Park

shotamoose wrote: »

Interesting article by Dion Fanning here. Hadn't seen this quote from Carra before:

yeah, i read it earlier. Real moronic shhit.

LuckyLloyd

darced wrote: »

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darced wrote: »

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darced wrote: »

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Hot damn, that is some bad posting.

LuckyLloyd

kevohmsford wrote: »

Sorry about the music but just shows how fundamental Lucas is to the team.

I thought that was a good tune!

LuckyLloyd

Oranage2 wrote: »

Thats a highlight reel :eek:

A lot of the clip was reckless tackles.

Thing I noticed about the clip was when he does win the ball he passes it then just stops, a better midfielder would still move into a position to receive a pass. He's also not very good going forward. I'd rate Scott Parker ahead of him TBH.

Hey, we have a winner for the day!

The Lucas filter is great for deciding who know what they're talking about and who don't.

LuckyLloyd

mixednuts wrote: »

There is a certain tone to some posts in here like we have already won the FA Cup ?

I think people better look at the reality that we could end the season around mid-table with the Carling Cup , cause there seems to be a lot of hope pinned on us winning the FA Cup , and looking at our recent form I don't think we will .

I still think progress is being made and with the amount of changes to the squad over the past 18months it's bound to take a season or two to click .

But I thinks it's important that people don't count their chickens before they hatch and pin all the hopes for this season on the FA Cup , as I'm kinda a glass half full person,and think it would be crazy to make it the be-all-and-end-all if we didn't win it , and then round2 of "Kenny out" begins

Well, that is what will happen on this forum. But retardville can be ignored most of the time.

We are far from favourites to win the competition.

Cartman78

Ok guys...hands up...who else out there has been caught out by the mass media Premier League Table April Fools "joke"????

Have checked a few newspapers this morning and a load of websites and even teletext and they all have Everton ahead of us It made me chuckle but surely a bit too obviously taking the pi$$.

Looking forward to the game today....3 points and we're right back in the hunt for 4th place

markie29

Cartman78 wrote: »

Ok guys...hands up...who else out there has been caught out by the mass media Premier League Table April Fools "joke"????

Have checked a few newspapers this morning and a load of websites and even teletext and they all have Everton ahead of us It made me chuckle but surely a bit too obviously taking the pi$$.

Looking forward to the game today....3 points and we're right back in the hunt for 4th place

Would love a win today but 4th place is long long gone for us

Leiva

Cartman78 wrote: »

Looking forward to the game today....3 points and we're right back in the hunt for 4th place

I will have a quarter of whatever your smoking thanks :pac:

mike65

Heard something interesting today, from a presenter on BBC 5live he said that Henry had been in touch with Dalglish to make his feelings known, or words to that effect.

RayCon

shotamoose wrote: »

Interesting article by Dion Fanning here. Hadn't seen this quote from Carra before:

:rolleyes: Thanks for the years of service Jamie ... time to move along now.

missingtime

shotamoose wrote: »

Interesting article by Dion Fanning here. Hadn't seen this quote from Carra before:

Jesus.

RayCon

shotamoose wrote: »

Interesting article by Dion Fanning here.

This is nail on the head for me :

Under Dalglish and Damien Comolli, Liverpool adopted a Buy British policy, based around the idea that players from the Premier League would settle quickly. If by settling, you mean revealing their inherent mediocrity, then it is Mission Accomplished. By every other measurement, the policy has failed.

Despite what Sky Sports will continually ram down your throat ... there aren't that many British World Class footballers ...

doc_17

Dion Fanning has been a very big backer and supporter of Rafa down the years. I always find it hard o disagree with him!