Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 11/12 (End of March 2012 onwards)

amiable

Well dont debate so. Nobody forced you. I personally couldnt care less what Torres does as hes gone. Liverpool players are more important.

Im pretty certain though that Torres didnt just decide to leave and shock the management hours before the deadline like you claimed.

joe123

So do you believe our management decided....

"yeah let's wait until the last day to sell Torres"

amiable

joe123 wrote: »

So do you believe our management decided....

"yeah let's wait until the last day to sell Torres"

No I believe they told Chelsea what they wanted and wouldnt budge til they got it. So you still believe Torres only told them he was leaving hours before the deadline. Dont be so naive.

taytothief

Genuinely can't believe people are still going on about Torres. It's embarrassing and it's pathetic.

amiable

taytothief wrote: »

Genuinely can't believe people are still going on about Torres. It's embarrassing and it's pathetic.

Read my posts on him again. Ive said I dont care what he does. I cant be clearer

darced

This post has been deleted.

Gbear

I want Bayern to win the CL.

citytillidie

missingtime wrote: »

Ollie holt:

Is a knee in the arse really that sore? I've spoken to some arses who say otherwise.

Ah yes JT's best mate in the media backing him as usual

joe123

amiable wrote: »

No I believe they told Chelsea what they wanted and wouldnt budge til they got it. So you still believe Torres only told them he was leaving hours before the deadline. Dont be so naive.

Sound good man. Whos being naive tho?

Anyways yeah! Lets go Bayern!

citytillidie

After seeing Ngog's goal tonight just what we are missing

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

amiable wrote: »

Read my posts on him again. Ive said I dont care what he does. I cant be clearer

What who does?

Pete M.

citytillidie wrote: »

After seeing Ngog's goal tonight just what we are missing

Him and Warnock!

Within 4 minutes of each other :eek:

And a peno in between. Mad stuff going on on football pitches from Birmingham to Barcelona.

Bring back Fernando :pac:

and ngog and warnock too, but not owen...

~Rebel~

joe123 wrote: »

And do you honestly believe we didn't ask him to see out 5 more months and wait till the summer?

Why would Liverpool have needed to ask him to see out 5 more months? He was under contract. All they had to do was turn down the offer, just like they turned down plenty of previous offers, and he'd have stayed. Instead, the club saw an opportunity to make what they thought was a worthwhile amount of money, and decided to take it. At the end of the day, in that move, LFC were the ones in the driving seat - as evidenced by the terms of the sale.

Yes, he wanted to leave to "challenge for things", but under the circumstances, LFC were clearly more than happy to sell.

As for naivety, I think it's far more likely that Torres was made by LFC to submit a transfer request to make the move so that a) he foregoes what he would have been owed from a contract breaking sale, and b) so fans wouldn't be so mad with LFC.

I'm disappointed that he wanted to go, but I'm grudgingly pleased for him tonight after the last 18 months.

My feelings for him really are like those for an ex whom I had some really good times with before she broke my heart. At first I was happy to see her fall on hard times after we broke up, but ultimately, with the passage of time, enough of the old feelings are still there that I can be pleased for her when she gets back on her feet.

El Inho

can i just say its a breath of fresh air to finally have something new to ta......

ah not the f*****g torres debate again.

Daemonic

Gbear wrote: »

I want Bayern to win the CL.

It could be argued Chelsea winning it would be better for Liverpool. Chelsea will always have the cash to compete so them missing out on next years CL is not a big deal. But if they win and prevent whoever finishes 4th (most likely Spurs or Newcastle) from getting into next years CL it means one less team with a big influx of cash and the allure of CL football.
While Liverpool need to improve quite a bit to be in the race for 4th next season, a setback for Spurs or Newcastle can only help.

Handsome Bob

Oliver Holt shows his anti-pool and pro-cockney bias yet again.

Mr Alan

I can understand why Torres left - I would wish he had given us a bit more time with things looking up considerably on the pitch, but he'd seen so many false dawns & had so many broken promises made to him he obviously felt he didn't want to take the chance.

However, his comments after he left means that there was a sour taste in the mouth for quite a while.

I don't hate him, but I don't wish him well either tbh. I actually think it's a bit of a sad case. Any interviews he has given since he left for Chelsea quite clearly show he is a man who has entirely fallen out of love with the game. He sounds like a different person to the man who joined us & tbh I think that's a part of the reason he looks like a different player to the one who joined us.

One thing I find quite amusing is those making out his goal last night is some sort of big deal either for him personally or for Chelsea. He was on against a team that literally didn't have a single player in their own half they were pressing so much for a goal. Ultimately, his goal meant nothing with only a minute or so left in the tie they were already winning and ultimately he'll be back on the bench for the final. If people think when he made his move he envisaged himself being a bit part player & warming the bench for a club that is unlikely to be in the CL next year, they're sorely mistaken.

missingtime

Mr Alan wrote: »

I don't hate him, but I don't wish him well either tbh. I actually think it's a bit of a sad case. Any interviews he has given since he left for Chelsea quite clearly show he is a man who has entirely fallen out of love with the game. He sounds like a different person to the man who joined us & tbh I think that's a part of the reason he looks like a different player to the one who joined us.

I've felt this as well. He became somewhat bitter over the whole experience.

El Inho

http://www1.skysports.com/football/teams/liverpool

it never ends.

mike65

Mr Alan wrote: »

One thing I find quite amusing is those making out his goal last night is some sort of big deal either for him personally or for Chelsea. He was on against a team that literally didn't have a single player in their own half they were pressing so much for a goal. Ultimately, his goal meant nothing with only a minute or so left in the tie they were already winning and ultimately he'll be back on the bench for the final. If people think when he made his move he envisaged himself being a bit part player & warming the bench for a club that is unlikely to be in the CL next year, they're sorely mistaken.

Well Barca might have scored and then would have won the tie but Torres goal made sure that didn't matter, and clearly he didn't foresee his career at Chelsea being as its turned out but he is in a CL final for the first (and probably last) time and could score the winning goal yet.

Mr Alan

eldwaro wrote: »

http://www1.skysports.com/football/teams/liverpool

it never ends.

Good. I'd take him back into the squad in a heartbeat.

I've no idea why we let both him & Meireles go. One, fair enough. But both was stupid & was basically us taking a gamble on Gerrard being fit for the whole season, which was never going to happen.

El Inho

and on another note...

is anyone else actually a little excited to be playing europa league again?

Sappy404

Handsome Bob wrote: »

Oliver Holt shows his anti-pool and pro-cockney bias yet again.

citytillidie wrote: »

Ah yes JT's best mate in the media backing him as usual

Pretty sure missingtime's post was satirical, based on Holt's defence of Terry's racist remark. I hope, anyway.

As for his assertion that Chelsea's draw at the Camp Nou was more dramatic than the 05 final, I couldn't care less. I can't think of anything more pointless to argue about, and everyone's going to have their own opinions anyway.

Handsome Bob

Sappy404 wrote: »

Pretty sure missingtime's post was satirical, based on Holt's defence of Terry's racist remark. I hope, anyway.

As for his assertion that Chelsea's draw at the Camp Nou was more dramatic than the 05 final, I couldn't care less. I can't think of anything more pointless to argue about, and everyone's going to have their own opinions anyway.

That is what I was referring to. If he genuinely believes that last night was more epic than Istanbul then he is absolutely deluded.

mormank

Daemonic wrote: »

It could be argued Chelsea winning it would be better for Liverpool. Chelsea will always have the cash to compete so them missing out on next years CL is not a big deal. But if they win and prevent whoever finishes 4th (most likely Spurs or Newcastle) from getting into next years CL it means one less team with a big influx of cash and the allure of CL football.
While Liverpool need to improve quite a bit to be in the race for 4th next season, a setback for Spurs or Newcastle can only help.

I definitely agree with this train of thought. Although I think it is unlikely Chelsea will win the CL I hope they do for the reasons mentioned above, plus I think Roman is more likely to lose interest in Chelsea once he has finally won the Champion's League. The sooner the sugar daddy's all leave their respective clubs the better it is for the likes of us.

Kess73

citytillidie wrote: »

After seeing Ngog's goal tonight just what we are missing

Nah we don't need N'Gog. We have Carroll to provide roughly the same amount of goals that N'Gog got us per season.

mike65

eldwaro wrote: »

and on another note...

is anyone else actually a little excited to be playing europa league again?

:pac:

Its only of real interest to me for how the competition might be used to develop the youth, that said if Liverpool progress and draw nice teams in the knockout rounds it'll suddenly seem quite important!

Sappy404

mormank wrote: »

I definitely agree with this train of thought. Although I think it is unlikely Chelsea will win the CL I hope they do for the reasons mentioned above, plus I think Roman is more likely to lose interest in Chelsea once he has finally won the Champion's League. The sooner the sugar daddy's all leave their respective clubs the better it is for the likes of us.

Chelsea aren't likely to invest heavily this summer though, are they?

By the way, Abramovich wants his team to win the Champions League. No owner doesn't want his club to do the same. The idea that he'd sell the club as soon as they've won it once is mental. If I bought a yacht in Monaco and nailed Kelly Brook at the weekend, I wouldn't sell the thing and retire from sex.

El Inho

Mr Alan wrote: »

Good. I'd take him back into the squad in a heartbeat.

I've no idea why we let both him & Meireles go. One, fair enough. But both was stupid & was basically us taking a gamble on Gerrard being fit for the whole season, which was never going to happen.

id have him back too, but thats probably not going to happen.

he'll have his preseason with us, we'll pay his wages, and then he'll feck off to his next italian port of call.

mike65 wrote: »

:pac:

Its only of real interest to me for how the competition might be used to develop the youth, that said if Liverpool progress and draw nice teams in the knockout rounds it'll suddenly seem quite important!

well its the squad depth i always liked about europe...

it forces you to have a bigger squad. this year we would have been shagged in europe, and quite frankly, some positives can be drawn from not being in champions league next year. we would have been ridden side ways by the majority of clubs.

next year in europa league can build up a squad, an improvement on what we got this year with no european football.

i think i feel the end of season optimism about next year coming in.

mormank

eldwaro wrote: »

and on another note...

is anyone else actually a little excited to be playing europa league again?

It's a bit meh...If we use it as an opportunity to play some of the young talent we have at the club then it can be a very positive experience for us next season, however if it detracts from our league form then it could very well be a hinderance.

There has been alot of discussion in here the past few days about the priorities and what they should be. A few people seem to think that winning the domestic cup double is better than champion's league qualification and some people seem to think the opposite.

Well to add my 2cents, I dunno about you guys but for me the Ultimate goal and trophy that i would like to win more than any other is the Premier League. At this point I would almost say that all the other trophies are irrelevant to me persnoally. (of course they are not but I'm using hyperbole to help get my point across). I am not old enough to remember any of the glory years. I have experienced winning every trophy as a Liverpool fan bar winning the League. That for me is the ultimate goal and for that reason I see Champion's league qualification as far more important than any domestic cup wins. The reason being that it is only through Champion's league qualification that we can stay competitive in the league. The longer we stay out of the Champion's league, with all the money and ability to attract better players that goes with that, the further and further we get from winning the league. Plain and simple. You guys can argue the semantics of it all but that for me is what it boils down to right now in my 'career' as a fan of this (once) great club!

mormank

Sappy404 wrote: »

Chelsea aren't likely to invest heavily this summer though, are they?

By the way, Abramovich wants his team to win the Champions League. No owner doesn't want his club to do the same. The idea that he'd sell the club as soon as they've won it once is mental. If I bought a yacht in Monaco and nailed Kelly Brook at the weekend, I wouldn't sell the thing and retire from sex.

I'm not suggesting that Roman will sell the club once they win the champion's league, rather that he won't until they did. Slightly different.

As for the question regarding chelsea's plans to invest this summer, I hve no idea but I do know that chelsea's idea of a quiet transfer window is very different to ours.

El Inho

mormank wrote: »

It's a bit meh...If we use it as an opportunity to play some of the young talent we have at the club then it can be a very positive experience for us next season, however if it detracts from our league form then it could very well be a hinderance.

There has been alot of discussion in here the past few days about the priorities and what they should be. A few people seem to think that winning the domestic cup double is better than champion's league qualification and some people seem to think the opposite.

Well to add my 2cents, I dunno about you guys but for me the Ultimate goal and trophy that i would like to win more than any other is the Premier League. At this point I would almost say that all the other trophies are irrelevant to me persnoally. (of course they are not but I'm using hyperbole to help get my point across). I am not old enough to remember any of the glory years. I have experienced winning every trophy as a Liverpool fan bar winning the League. That for me is the ultimate goal and for that reason I see Champion's league qualification as far more important than any domestic cup wins. The reason being that it is only through Champion's league qualification that we can stay competitive in the league. The longer we stay out of the Champion's league, with all the money and ability to attract better players that goes with that, the further and further we get from winning the league. Plain and simple. You guys can argue the semantics of it all but that for me is what it boils down to right now in my 'career' as a fan of this (once) great club!

ive never hummed and hawed over thanking a post so much.... and it came down to this...history doesnt change, whether we were around for the glory days or not. i also wasnt!

consider yourself thanked in gesture for everything else though.

mormank

eldwaro wrote: »

ive never hummed and hawed over thanking a post so much.... and it came down to this...history doesnt change, whether we were around for the glory days or not. i also wasnt!

consider yourself thanked in gesture for everything else though.

I threw that part in on purpose as a bit of a curveball but forgot the smiley face which I've since put in. Dunno if that changes anything but it was very much tongue in cheek, to provoke a reaction but not in a trolly way...

mormank

Although to be honest, I do feel some people on here do need to realise where we are as a club in the modern era. Some people seem to think that simply because we are Liverpool football club we should be handed things, that we deserve to be in a certain position in the league and that anything short of that is unacceptable.

We fell behind alot throughout the 90's. Our owner and board, it seems, were out of their depth. They run the club like it was still the dark ages and failed to maximise it's potential. By the time Hicks and Gillette even arrived we were so far behind the other top teams on the field and off it. In fairness to them it would appear they got the ball rolling and partially brought us into the modern era of football in terms or sponsorship and other things. Then all that went tits up as we all know and we were once again set even further back.

We had it good under Benitez, but just like kids with short memories or attention spans alot of us turned on Benitez and thought it was best for him to go. But don't it always seem to go, you don't know what you've got till it's gone. Then came Roy, just like with alot of things in life it takes a bad experience to make you appreciate the good. Now we have Kenny and again there are plenty of voices wanting him out. Sure, i can understand why people would want him out and to get a new manager in and what not...To what end is my question?

We havent won the league in 20 years. We have a whole generation of fans that have never experienced the glory of winning the league. Do people honestly believe that another manager can just arrive and win us the league, or guarantee us 4th? Do people honestly think that's all it takes? That we are that close to really challenging? I have experienced one title challenge. We ended up 4 points behind with a points total that would have won us the league on numerous other occasions. I guess my point is that people need to wake up to the reality that Liverpool are not the dominant force anymore. Going through managers at this rate is not going to help us in any way shape or form. It is not meant to be the way we conduct ourselves as a club. This attitude of entitlement probably cost us our best manager in the last 20 years. Kenny has had one full season as manager since he has been back. Is it gonna be the case that if he goes and whoever replaces him doesn't get 4th that he then gets sacked and so on and so forth??

Part of what attracted me to this club growing up was that we didn't behave this way. We had a reputation of holding onto managers for too long if anything. Remember the ridiculous joint managers for example. But having said that it kind of led to a mentality that we lose together or we win together. We are all in this together kind of an attitude. If you don't constantly sack managers then the players also know they have to play for the manager and can't contribute towards the sacking of a manager like what may have happened at chelsea this season and many other seasons.

Anyway, I'm rambling at this point so i'll stop randomly pushing keys on my keyboard now

The Chessplayer

Great to hear that Aquilani and Cole are probably on their way back to Liverpool. This will surely lead to less gametime for Downing and Adam, regardless of whether they are direct replacements. For all the stick we gave Cole, he would've been handy to have this season when you look at some of the jokers we have in attacking midfield positions.

What's the story with Maxi? Is he on his bike or what? Any other exits expected in the close season? Dirk Kuyt on way to Holland.

The Chessplayer

mormank wrote: »

Anyway, I'm rambling at this point

You most certainly are.


Anyone got a link for the Chelsea highlights? Thanks

Grayditch

citytillidie wrote: »

After seeing Ngog's goal tonight just what we are missing

Anytime I see any goal, I remember what we are missing.

spockety

mormank wrote: »

Although to be honest, I do feel some people on here do need to realise where we are as a club in the modern era. Some people seem to think that simply because we are Liverpool football club we should be handed things, that we deserve to be in a certain position in the league and that anything short of that is unacceptable.

We fell behind alot throughout the 90's. Our owner and board, it seems, were out of their depth. They run the club like it was still the dark ages and failed to maximise it's potential. By the time Hicks and Gillette even arrived we were so far behind the other top teams on the field and off it. In fairness to them it would appear they got the ball rolling and partially brought us into the modern era of football in terms or sponsorship and other things. Then all that went tits up as we all know and we were once again set even further back.

We had it good under Benitez, but just like kids with short memories or attention spans alot of us turned on Benitez and thought it was best for him to go. But don't it always seem to go, you don't know what you've got till it's gone. Then came Roy, just like with alot of things in life it takes a bad experience to make you appreciate the good. Now we have Kenny and again there are plenty of voices wanting him out. Sure, i can understand why people would want him out and to get a new manager in and what not...To what end is my question?

We havent won the league in 20 years. We have a whole generation of fans that have never experienced the glory of winning the league. Do people honestly believe that another manager can just arrive and win us the league, or guarantee us 4th? Do people honestly think that's all it takes? That we are that close to really challenging? I have experienced one title challenge. We ended up 4 points behind with a points total that would have won us the league on numerous other occasions. I guess my point is that people need to wake up to the reality that Liverpool are not the dominant force anymore. Going through managers at this rate is not going to help us in any way shape or form. It is not meant to be the way we conduct ourselves as a club. This attitude of entitlement probably cost us our best manager in the last 20 years. Kenny has had one full season as manager since he has been back. Is it gonna be the case that if he goes and whoever replaces him doesn't get 4th that he then gets sacked and so on and so forth??

Part of what attracted me to this club growing up was that we didn't behave this way. We had a reputation of holding onto managers for too long if anything. Remember the ridiculous joint managers for example. But having said that it kind of led to a mentality that we lose together or we win together. We are all in this together kind of an attitude. If you don't constantly sack managers then the players also know they have to play for the manager and can't contribute towards the sacking of a manager like what may have happened at chelsea this season and many other seasons.

Anyway, I'm rambling at this point so i'll stop randomly pushing keys on my keyboard now

Nail on the head. Football is nowhere near as black and white or short term as people think.

When I think about my support of Liverpool, I don't always think about the here and now, I think about the past, and I think up to 30 or 40 years into the future. There is plenty left to be won in my lifetime, and I have no doubt we will win the league before I die. Fans of most other clubs cannot say that. There's a future hero who will bang in 30 goals a season for us who has not even been born yet.

I'm in for the long haul.

Kess73

The Chessplayer wrote: »

Great to hear that Aquilani and Cole are probably on their way back to Liverpool. This will surely lead to less gametime for Downing and Adam, regardless of whether they are direct replacements. For all the stick we gave Cole, he would've been handy to have this season when you look at some of the jokers we have in attacking midfield positions.

What's the story with Maxi? Is he on his bike or what? Any other exits expected in the close season? Dirk Kuyt on way to Holland.

Whatever about Aquilani as he is a big step up on the likes of Adam, Henderson etc in CM, but Cole was bloody awful for us and he has not been that impressive in the French league either despite some of the London media trying to big him up.

Cole brought nothing of worth to the club when he moved to LFC almost two years ago, and he certainly brings nothing of worth now. Just a big earner who is just as ineffective as the worst of our underperformers this season. No point adding another waste of a squad number to the ranks if there is any chance of off loading him on a club dumb enough to want him.

Kess73

mormank wrote: »

Although to be honest, I do feel some people on here do need to realise where we are as a club in the modern era. Some people seem to think that simply because we are Liverpool football club we should be handed things, that we deserve to be in a certain position in the league and that anything short of that is unacceptable.

We fell behind alot throughout the 90's. Our owner and board, it seems, were out of their depth. They run the club like it was still the dark ages and failed to maximise it's potential. By the time Hicks and Gillette even arrived we were so far behind the other top teams on the field and off it. In fairness to them it would appear they got the ball rolling and partially brought us into the modern era of football in terms or sponsorship and other things. Then all that went tits up as we all know and we were once again set even further back.

We had it good under Benitez, but just like kids with short memories or attention spans alot of us turned on Benitez and thought it was best for him to go. But don't it always seem to go, you don't know what you've got till it's gone. Then came Roy, just like with alot of things in life it takes a bad experience to make you appreciate the good. Now we have Kenny and again there are plenty of voices wanting him out. Sure, i can understand why people would want him out and to get a new manager in and what not...To what end is my question?

We havent won the league in 20 years. We have a whole generation of fans that have never experienced the glory of winning the league. Do people honestly believe that another manager can just arrive and win us the league, or guarantee us 4th? Do people honestly think that's all it takes? That we are that close to really challenging? I have experienced one title challenge. We ended up 4 points behind with a points total that would have won us the league on numerous other occasions. I guess my point is that people need to wake up to the reality that Liverpool are not the dominant force anymore. Going through managers at this rate is not going to help us in any way shape or form. It is not meant to be the way we conduct ourselves as a club. This attitude of entitlement probably cost us our best manager in the last 20 years. Kenny has had one full season as manager since he has been back. Is it gonna be the case that if he goes and whoever replaces him doesn't get 4th that he then gets sacked and so on and so forth??

Part of what attracted me to this club growing up was that we didn't behave this way. We had a reputation of holding onto managers for too long if anything. Remember the ridiculous joint managers for example. But having said that it kind of led to a mentality that we lose together or we win together. We are all in this together kind of an attitude. If you don't constantly sack managers then the players also know they have to play for the manager and can't contribute towards the sacking of a manager like what may have happened at chelsea this season and many other seasons.

Anyway, I'm rambling at this point so i'll stop randomly pushing keys on my keyboard now

Enjoyed that read.


It this post is what you come up with when randomly pushing keys, then I suggest you pop on a blindfold and attack the keyboard with a vengence.

missingtime

Bit o' gossip:

Liverpool are preparing a summer move for AZ Alkmaar's 24-year-old Sweden midfielder Rasmus Elm, after reportedly sending their top scout to watch him in action for the Dutch side.

http://www.mirrorfootball.co.uk/transfer-news/Liverpool-scouting-AZ-Alkmaar-s-Rasmus-Elm-article894939.html

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/player/_/id/83075/rasmus-elm?cc=5739

Mr Kess, I'll expect your report on my desk by eop today.

The Chessplayer

Kess73 wrote: »

Whatever about Aquilani as he is a big step up on the likes of Adam, Henderson etc in CM, but Cole was bloody awful for us and he has not been that impressive in the French league either despite some of the London media trying to big him up.

Cole brought nothing of worth to the club when he moved to LFC almost two years ago, and he certainly brings nothing of worth now. Just a big earner who is just as ineffective as the worst of our underperformers this season. No point adding another waste of a squad number to the ranks if there is any chance of off loading him on a club dumb enough to want him.

Maybe so, but Gerrard will be in the sickbay for half of the season so having Cole, Aquilani and Shelvey as backup will be good. He was awful for us, but the team was all over the shop at the time as well. I obviously don't follow the French league but surely he hasn't been quite as terrible as Adam, Downing, Henderson, Carroll etc.

missingtime

mormank wrote: »

This attitude of entitlement probably cost us our best manager in the last 20 years.

This point really hits the nail on the head for me. People are too quick to jump on failure or peoples mistakes instead of trying to find a long term solution.

LuckyLloyd

eldwaro wrote: »

and on another note...

is anyone else actually a little excited to be playing europa league again?

Yes! 2000 / 1 is probably my favourite season as a Liverpool fan. The first leg away in Roma will live long in my memory.

Morzadec

mormank wrote: »

Is it gonna be the case that if he goes and whoever replaces him doesn't get 4th that he then gets sacked and so on and so forth??

Good post and I agree with what you say for the most part, but just on the above point - it's not Kenny's failure to get fourth that has some fans calling for his head, and others (like me) who are seriously questioning his position.

It's the lack of even a challenge. I knew that it was likely we would not get 4th this year, and I wasn't necessarily going to see it as black and white as 'no 4th = failure'. It's the fact we are SO far behind, especially in a year where some of the expected shoe-ins for 4th have struggled, and that the challenge ended in February, that is so disappointing, and, let's face it, unacceptable.

I'm of the generation you talk of - those who have never seen a League won - and I agree that we shouldn't be expectant just because of our history. I was against Rafa's sacking. When we were hovering 4 or 5 point behind the CL places I felt that should we fail (and the inevitable criticisms come in seeing as 4th was the target), Kenny should get another season, because there was so many matches where the margins were incredibly fine and it looked like we were playing well and making progress overall.

It's the margin of the deficit to the top of the table that is hard to accept, even for the less-spoiled, more realistic Liverpool supporter. We have the same amount of points as Fulham. It is not spoiled to suggest that we should be at least 10 to 15 points clear of mid-table sides at this stage of the season given our resources and the quality of the playing squad.

Kess73

The Chessplayer wrote: »

Maybe so, but Gerrard will be in the sickbay for half of the season so having Cole, Aquilani and Shelvey as backup will be good. He was awful for us, but the team was all over the shop at the time as well. I obviously don't follow the French league but surely he hasn't been quite as terrible as Adam, Downing, Henderson, Carroll etc.

You don't have to follow the French league to have an idea how Cole would be for us. You have how he was for us as an indicator of how bad he was.

He is slow, constantly lacking fitness, lacking a footballing brain, and lacks heart. He has had some good moments in France, but then again people could find the same from Adam, Downing etc etc this season.

At best I would say that Cole in 2012 is at the level of the players you named, possibly a level below them, and given that he will turn 31 this year he is not going to improve. For £90k+ a week I would want a proper player, not a total has been like Cole who is not any better than our current underperformers. Imho of course.

Leiva

Kess73 wrote: »

Enjoyed that read.


It this post is what you come up with when randomly pushing keys, then I suggest you pop on a blindfold and attack the keyboard with a vengence.

lol I was about to say the exact same thing

El Inho

That was indeed a good read on the last page, and not incessant ranting at any level.

I think the nail was hit firmly on the head when it must be insisted upon that we be realistic. We were a club in decline with the former owners, and the first thing that had to happen was stopping the rot. This occurred in a season which saw us qualify for no European football.

If we view LFC from the outside for once we then see a club that has lost all right to tournaments or trophies on merit. Well put earlier was stating we are no long a dominant force, and must realise this.

Unfortunately for us, while we were in decline and stopping the rot, Man City, Spurs and Newcastle have enjoyed huge improvements. At the very best, we could someway align ourselves with Spurs now, if only for their poor end to the season.

Being realistic has hit me quite hard lately when reflecting on this season. LFC were a team gone 6 years with no honours, and falling from champions league, to europa, to nothing at all. While many call for Kenny's head, it simply does not make sense to cull a manager who has won one trophy, albeit the Carling Cup (remember we had to best some of the best to get their), lead us to the final of the FA Cup, a cup than any club would be proud to be in the final of and win, and has gotten us back to the qualification stages of the Europa League (if not the group stages with a win over Chelsea).

I realised today I'm getting excited about the Europa league. Reason being that right now, if we view LFC as a project, the Europa League is where we deserve to be, even if we are taking the much harder route to get there through cups and not league position. While for a club with the stature of LFC this season has been disappointing, we have improved. We are far from LFC of old, but we are also far from LFC of the past two seasons.

We are a club showing improvements at last. Sure the players are coming under critism, and the signings haven't all gone well, but with the summer approaching, the draw of European football, and owners I actually trust with my club, the future signings will surely be an improvement. Some players will get relegated to squad status, and all players will have more game time as the Europa League offers what I miss most, mid-week football (using the term liberally for Thursdays).

I know the naysayers are out there, but personally I'm being positive ofr LFC's future. Financially we are sound, have a generally young squad with only a handful of positions needing improvement. We are in a good position for the future. The main problem seems to arise from people having very high expectations on King Kenny, FSG's wallet, and the players of the world automatically wanting to play for LFC.

Being realistic, this season has heralded some vital improvements to carry the club onto better things next season, and even greater things for the following season.

Now that I'm finished, I can stop procrastinating from studying for my exams, and actually dive into German Cultural History at the turn of the century. The joys of it all!

TL;DR - LFC aren't in as bad a place as we all think. We are where we deserve to be, but it is seasons like this one that will get us to where we want to be.

Kess73

missingtime wrote: »

Bit o' gossip:



http://www.mirrorfootball.co.uk/transfer-news/Liverpool-scouting-AZ-Alkmaar-s-Rasmus-Elm-article894939.html

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/player/_/id/83075/rasmus-elm?cc=5739

Mr Kess, I'll expect your report on my desk by eop today.

He is the most hyped of the current batch of young (ish) Swedes. He is on the back of a very good season, and technically is a very tidy player who can be very similar to Aquilani in terms how how he passes the ball, and in terms of his passing range. Mobile player as well.

Would not be one of the first names on my list of young CMs/CAMs to be honest though. If I wanted a clever midfielder with good attacking ability to put alongside Lucas or to play in a midfield trio with Lucas and either an allrounder or a playmaker, then I would be looking at the likes of Belhanda, Markus Henrikson, Harmeet Singh etc rather than the likes of Elm.

Leiva

mormank wrote: »

Although to be honest, I do feel some people on here do need to realise where we are as a club in the modern era. Some people seem to think that simply because we are Liverpool football club we should be handed things, that we deserve to be in a certain position in the league and that anything short of that is unacceptable.

We fell behind alot throughout the 90's. Our owner and board, it seems, were out of their depth. They run the club like it was still the dark ages and failed to maximise it's potential. By the time Hicks and Gillette even arrived we were so far behind the other top teams on the field and off it. In fairness to them it would appear they got the ball rolling and partially brought us into the modern era of football in terms or sponsorship and other things. Then all that went tits up as we all know and we were once again set even further back.

We had it good under Benitez, but just like kids with short memories or attention spans alot of us turned on Benitez and thought it was best for him to go. But don't it always seem to go, you don't know what you've got till it's gone. Then came Roy, just like with alot of things in life it takes a bad experience to make you appreciate the good. Now we have Kenny and again there are plenty of voices wanting him out. Sure, i can understand why people would want him out and to get a new manager in and what not...To what end is my question?

We havent won the league in 20 years. We have a whole generation of fans that have never experienced the glory of winning the league. Do people honestly believe that another manager can just arrive and win us the league, or guarantee us 4th? Do people honestly think that's all it takes? That we are that close to really challenging? I have experienced one title challenge. We ended up 4 points behind with a points total that would have won us the league on numerous other occasions. I guess my point is that people need to wake up to the reality that Liverpool are not the dominant force anymore. Going through managers at this rate is not going to help us in any way shape or form. It is not meant to be the way we conduct ourselves as a club. This attitude of entitlement probably cost us our best manager in the last 20 years. Kenny has had one full season as manager since he has been back. Is it gonna be the case that if he goes and whoever replaces him doesn't get 4th that he then gets sacked and so on and so forth??

Part of what attracted me to this club growing up was that we didn't behave this way. We had a reputation of holding onto managers for too long if anything. Remember the ridiculous joint managers for example. But having said that it kind of led to a mentality that we lose together or we win together. We are all in this together kind of an attitude. If you don't constantly sack managers then the players also know they have to play for the manager and can't contribute towards the sacking of a manager like what may have happened at chelsea this season and many other seasons.

Anyway, I'm rambling at this point so i'll stop randomly pushing keys on my keyboard now

spockety wrote: »

Nail on the head. Football is nowhere near as black and white or short term as people think.

When I think about my support of Liverpool, I don't always think about the here and now, I think about the past, and I think up to 30 or 40 years into the future. There is plenty left to be won in my lifetime, and I have no doubt we will win the league before I die. Fans of most other clubs cannot say that. There's a future hero who will bang in 30 goals a season for us who has not even been born yet.

I'm in for the long haul.

I am no expert or demographer but I think its kinda a new phenomenon that's occurred in recent years .

We have Liverpool fans (35+) who are in the majority, and we have the younger generation who have no allegiance to legend or the old times who just want league success, which in their lifetime (25 - ) it has never been known or seen .

So we kinda have a split of fans who are more patient and less quick to call for a managers head, and another side that justifiably haven't seen things ever change for the good of a league title .

But Mormank has hit the mail on the head "you never know what you have til you loose it" (Rafa) .

by the way I am in the 35+ brigade