News and star - Marks and Spencer's interested in area

RobitTV

Read in the news and star today that marks and Spencer's are interested in the car park next to storm cinemas, they said it was a good site.

There has been no confirmation of anything, just that they were interested in the area.

Anyone else read this?

MitchKoobski

I assume you mean the buildings?

As long as someone does something with them soon I don't care who it is.

Sosa

MitchKoobski wrote: »

I assume you mean the buildings?

As long as someone does something with them soon I don't care who it is.

The car park...they plan to build over it i heard.

ziedth

Which buildings? I can't for the life of me think of a unit that would suit M&S around storm. They'd be welcome addition to town though.

Edit:They'd pay big bucks for that car park...

Professey Chin

Sosa wrote: »

The car park...they plan to build over it i heard.

Over Millers Marsh? Thatd be a very strange location.

ex_infantry man

is millers marsh even for sale????

merlante

Ideally, they'd take over part of the land intended for the Newgate centre, and consolidate the city centre, creating a strong axis between Michael st. and City Square; Millar's Marsh is not great from an urban planning point of view. It stretches the town out even further when the core is relatively weak. As it is, Waterford city centre shopping is too dispersed across a lot of secondary streets, few of which have an alternative shopping street leading back to the centre without retracing your steps. (e.g. Quay either direction, Patrick st. and now John st.)

Still, in these recessionary times, M&S are not going to be dictated to, and will probably be allowed to do as they please. This might be a better idea if the junction/John st. was all retail as opposed to late night entertainment

mike65

Thats a car park not a shop site! Its also an awkward shape for anything of a decent square footage.

Would the Gas Works site be better or is that already spoken for?

wellboytoo

Nice clean site to work on good access, pile through the ground leave all archaeology there, precedent of Four stories, lot easier and cheaper than the brewery site.I would imagine the City would leave it go for relatively small money because of the potential for rates.seems a no brainer to me.the gas works site is owned by bord Gais,

sunnysoutheast

I thought there was a plan to build a new carpark on the site of the old gasworks? If so, would Miller's Marsh now become superfluous from a parking point of view, and hence available for development?

SSE

jayboi

What in the name of jaysus are ye all on about?
Are ye telling me seems as a new car park goes in the other one is redundant sure are they not trying to take the car parks off the quay as it is? why would they get rid of an alternative that keeps cars and traffic out of the core of the city. how the hell is building on the car park a no brainer? like its the only site available in town? If they want to come to town they should be pointed in the direction of new street site or the old brooks site.


Of course this wouldn't even be an issue for M&S had the new street centre gone ahead, people were saying it would never be filled now we have a big name looking for a place and no where to put it.

BBM77

As has been said, my biggest concern about this is that it may make the Newgate centre unviable. Surly the city council could work with NAMA to get part of the Newgate centre site that is adjacent to Micheal St and build a unit suitable for M&S with access to the New St car park. Then some time in the future the rest of the site could be developed as a shopping centre with the plus that an anchor tenant is already in place. After all is it not the point of NAMA to deal with such sites and give them a suitable use.

We really need to see past the M&S name in Waterford, people seem to think that it is almost god like in terms of retail. They just sell the same things as any supermarket-department store except it is marketed as being sophisticated and upper class. We need to do what is best for the city centre so it can continue to recover even if that means we don’t get M&S. If you are honest is there really anything you can get in M&S that you cannot already get in Waterford.

spankmemunkey

Marks and Sparks had planned to set up in Waterford ages ago, but due to strict planning restrictions and Waterford City Council having them jump through hoops they said fooks yis were out of here and they set up shop in Clonmel instead.

They were looking to set up out near the airport road.

Those sites that have been mentioned are a nightmare for access for anybody who doesnt live in the City.

Since TK Max moved there ive never been its a terrible location.

I cant see why a flagship shop like Marks and Spencers would want to have a dingy little shop hidden off a main street or no where near one behind a Cinema.

Dont think so,

jayboi

The old cinema would be a decent spot as well, what's the story with that?

Nas10

In my eyes I would also think miller's marsh is to small for a store like M&S and if they did choose there then it would be small. As a city we need to be attracting the biggest shops in the south east and get people coming to the city to spend and create jobs. Look as Tesco poleberry and the size of the store, that wouldnt fit in millers so you are already going in as second best.

I think the best location is for the old Waterford Crystal factory, situated on the main road, near students and housing estates and bypass. Yes the site alone may be big but thats where you stick in a city square type commercial zone but on a bigger scale for example Dundrum. If I had the money or was a developer that is exactly what I would be doing.

mike65

Ballybrickenman wrote: »

As has been said, my biggest concern about this is that it may make the Newgate centre unviable. Surly the city council could work with NAMA to get part of the Newgate centre site that is adjacent to Micheal St and build a unit suitable for M&S with access to the New St car park. Then some time in the future the rest of the site could be developed as a shopping centre with the plus that an anchor tenant is already in place. After all is it not the point of NAMA to deal with such sites and give them a suitable use.

We really need to see past the M&S name in Waterford, people seem to think that it is almost god like in terms of retail. They just sell the same things as any supermarket-department store except it is marketed as being sophisticated and upper class. We need to do what is best for the city centre so it can continue to recover even if that means we don’t get M&S. If you are honest is there really anything you can get in M&S that you cannot already get in Waterford.

I thought Newgate Street was dead and buried, as for NAMA you'll be waiting a long time before they are competent to achieve anything judging by their efforts in the property market so far.

M&S is a prestige name like it or not and they sell the best Pork Pies in the land, reason enough to want one here

Media999

Nas10 wrote: »

I think the best location is for the old Waterford Crystal factory, situated on the main road, near students and housing estates and bypass.

Between 2xTescos Aldi Ballybeg Larchville and Students.

Yeah great spot for an overpriced shop

coolperson05

I didn't think M&S built their own stores? Just moved into units prebuilt in shopping centres etc. The obvious choice is the old cinema, even selling some of that car park if space required. Millars Marsh is opposite Tesco and is out of town really - M&S will want to cash in on the clothing and homeware as much as the groceries. Pennies showed what you can do with a bit of imagination - but I don't think M&S want that kinda hassle....

mike65

Out of town? Seriously get a grip!

wellboytoo

Seriously the country is in a serious depression, there is a slight chance a large multi national food and clothes shop want to open here, they will want to reap the benifits of the downturn, so cost will be the deciding factor of the siting of this store, so forget the brewery centre, it is too expensive to build there with the access problems etc,it is good that the City Council are replacing the near City centre car parking that would be lost from Millers marsh(some would so suspiciously so), so this site is in theory available.
It is close enough to the City centre to keep the planners happy and a prospective retailer will be happy because there is fairly good access to its main market the dunmore rd and the ring road, with a bit of playing around with the existing access , making some of it two lane one way etc, it could be made much slicker.
Imo it is the best site for them and it is a much sought after brand despite what some contributors who obviously don't do their own shopping say!:D

BBM77

mike65 wrote: »

I thought Newgate Street was dead and buried, as for NAMA you'll be waiting a long time before they are competent to achieve anything judging by their efforts in the property market so far.

M&S is a prestige name like it or not and they sell the best Pork Pies in the land, reason enough to want one here

This is exactly what I am talking about, I have eaten their pork pies and they don’t taste any better than what you get in Tesco’s or anywhere else. I would bet you they are all made in the one factory with just different packaging put on them.

All I know about the Newgate Centre is that it has been NAMAed whatever that will result in I don’t know. But surely they wish to dispose of property and this would be a good outcome for this site.

fricatus

spankmemunkey wrote: »

Marks and Sparks had planned to set up in Waterford ages ago, but due to strict planning restrictions and Waterford City Council having them jump through hoops they said fooks yis were out of here and they set up shop in Clonmel instead.

They were looking to set up out near the airport road.

Those sites that have been mentioned are a nightmare for access for anybody who doesnt live in the City.

Since TK Max moved there ive never been its a terrible location.

I cant see why a flagship shop like Marks and Spencers would want to have a dingy little shop hidden off a main street or no where near one behind a Cinema.

Dont think so,

I saw a feature there a few weeks ago about Limerick in which it said that the city centre is dying on its feet. This is as a direct result of the Parkway and Crescent shopping centres taking all the good retail out of the city centre. Loads of shops like H&M and Zara are in Limerick but not in the centre, so the centre is full of boarded-up shops.

I was also in Erie, PA, in the States there about two years back and they told me that the downtown has basically died since they opened this mega mall called Millcreek. All your Macy's and Abercrombie & Fitch are in the mall and there's only offices and McDonalds in the downtown. It's quite a nice city, but having the retail heart ripped out of it has really dealt it a blow.

The planners in Waterford are trying not to repeat these mistakes by not allowing anything bigger than "neighbourhood centres" anywhere other than the city centre. Of course our friends in Kilkenny County Council totally undermined that policy by allowing Ferrybank to be built.

Everything should be done to get Newgate up and running, and a critical mass of quality shops in the city centre, before Ferrybank opens and Waterford slides down the slippery slope that Erie and Limerick have gone down. Arguments about "convenience" have to be secondary to this, because otherwise we'll just have a string of out-of-town centres that we can only reach by driving, and a dead city centre. We do not need that!

deiselack

It all sounds a bit mad! Don't think we could lose a carpark that size?! What's wrong with the vacant shopping centre in Ferrbank??..I'm not sure what's going on with that at the moment? If they went in there, others would definitely follow!

old gregg

I've got me a hankering for one of those pork pies Mike mentioned. I might head down to Millar's marsh and see if they're open yet.

merlante

First off, the council are to be congratulated for sticking to their guns on out of town shopping. In the long run, it would be far better to delay M&S for 10-15 years than to destroy the centre. I *hope* that those of you who continuously whinge about the quality of shopping in the city centre and about the parking charges not being "worth it" will all agree with me (wishful thinking!). For a city of Waterford's size, there is only one chance of creating a strong retail offering capable of drawing people from throughout the region, and that is to strengthen the centre, not to distribute the retail offering around the fringes of the city where they will not create a critical mass. Maybe *you* might know that there is an M&S on the old Waterford Crystal site, for example, but how many people from outside Waterford will know? Will the council be expected to add to the already extensive signage to point people towards M&S? Would people drive between town and the old Crystal site to compare jeans, thus creating more traffic, or just pick one and live with less choice?

I know that parking is free out of town but people seem to forget that by distributing retail right around the city, you are paying for it in fuel and wasted time. You are also paying for it indirectly through the economics of urban sprawl. The more sprawl the more roads, etc. that the council have to administer and the less cash there is for civic improvements, etc.

If you find that it is hassle to get into the city centre then maybe you should look at your living arrangements. People seem to think when they buy a house on the edge of town that it is the council's fault that town is inaccessible to them. It isn't, it's your fault for moving to a poor location. (Similarly, parking difficulties may be alleviated in many cases by trading down your SUV.) Living in town puts you within walking distance of everything, which is of particular benefit if you are elderly, disabled, students without cars and those with a low income. Putting an M&S on the edge of town makes it completely inaccessible for a good slice of the population. (Although maybe some people prefer that such undesirables are excluded.) Also, despite the larger population in areas like the Dunmore rd., the population is spread over a vast area. The inner centre has a higher population density, which in effect puts as many if not more people within walking distance of shops.

Suggesting that TK Maxx is now in a terrible location is laughable considering that it's previous location was miles from any residential population. Of course people who live on the outskirts and are wedded to their car think it's in a worse location, but it is now convenient for a whole other cohort of people that could not have reached it before. It is making the parking charges more palatable, is it not? I also think that Waterford is too small for this phenomenon of well to do people shopping in one place and poor people shopping in another. It's better for everyone, or at least for most people, if the population is lumped in together and shop in one location.

The council may well go with Millar's Marsh, but the Newgate site would be far better. On the parking issue in general, if the Millar's Marsh site were selected, replacement parking would have to be provided by M&S one suspects. Which might be mean "digging" or maybe facilitating the council to build a carpark for the city nearby. The Waterside seems like an obvious candidate, but they are developing that anyway...

Max Powers

Agreed, TK maxx is much better in the city centre, however, im forever hearing my sisters say the kitchen and shoes area was 3 times the size of the one out on the ORR.

Re: M&S, it would be great to see them come to Waterford, hopefully in a city centre site like the one at Millers Marsh, yes, the newgate centre would have been ideal but B.McCannt's delaying tactics worked in his favour there.

One thing to note is that the city council were in full support of redeveloping the few shops beside city square/arundel square, planning permission granted etc as far back as september id say yet nothing has happened. While the council deserve kudos for pushing these, no blocks have been laid yet.

mike65

merlante wrote: »

First off, the council are to be congratulated for sticking to their guns on out of town shopping. In the long run, it would be far better to delay M&S for 10-15 years than to destroy the centre. I *hope* that those of you who continuously whinge about the quality of shopping in the city centre and about the parking charges not being "worth it" will all agree with me (wishful thinking!). For a city of Waterford's size, there is only one chance of creating a strong retail offering capable of drawing people from throughout the region, and that is to strengthen the centre, not to distribute the retail offering around the fringes of the city where they will not create a critical mass. Maybe *you* might know that there is an M&S on the old Waterford Crystal site, for example, but how many people from outside Waterford will know? Will the council be expected to add to the already extensive signage to point people towards M&S? Would people drive between town and the old Crystal site to compare jeans, thus creating more traffic, or just pick one and live with less choice?

I know that parking is free out of town but people seem to forget that by distributing retail right around the city, you are paying for it in fuel and wasted time. You are also paying for it indirectly through the economics of urban sprawl. The more sprawl the more roads, etc. that the council have to administer and the less cash there is for civic improvements, etc.

If you find that it is hassle to get into the city centre then maybe you should look at your living arrangements. People seem to think when they buy a house on the edge of town that it is the council's fault that town is inaccessible to them.It isn't, it's your fault for moving to a poor location. (Similarly, parking difficulties may be alleviated in many cases by trading down your SUV.) Living in town puts you within walking distance of everything, which is of particular benefit if you are elderly, disabled, students without cars and those with a low income. Putting an M&S on the edge of town makes it completely inaccessible for a good slice of the population. (Although maybe some people prefer that such undesirables are excluded.) Also, despite the larger population in areas like the Dunmore rd., the population is spread over a vast area. The inner centre has a higher population density, which in effect puts as many if not more people within walking distance of shops.

Suggesting that TK Maxx is now in a terrible location is laughable considering that it's previous location was miles from any residential population. Of course people who live on the outskirts and are wedded to their car think it's in a worse location, but it is now convenient for a whole other cohort of people that could not have reached it before. It is making the parking charges more palatable, is it not? I also think that Waterford is too small for this phenomenon of well to do people shopping in one place and poor people shopping in another. It's better for everyone, or at least for most people, if the population is lumped in together and shop in one location.

The council may well go with Millar's Marsh, but the Newgate site would be far better. On the parking issue in general, if the Millar's Marsh site were selected, replacement parking would have to be provided by M&S one suspects. Which might be mean "digging" or maybe facilitating the council to build a carpark for the city nearby. The Waterside seems like an obvious candidate, but they are developing that anyway...

Would you like your hand to be any higher? God forbid that people can buy a home with gardens and a drive! One wonders what Waterford would look like squeezed into about 2 square miles A mess of badly built "Soviet" highrises or 60s style sink estates.
.
There are plenty of "undesirables" in suburbia btw.

Nypd

Fingers crossed WCC stick to their guns,
New gate area needs to be developed and if NAMA is actually looking after our interests a deal should be struck.
It should either be steam rolled in before the ferrybank centre gets a foot hold and that's two fingers up to the knobs that gave the ok to that site.
Or if nothing can be reached leave it slide.
Thinking of it M&S is not really going to drag in the hoarding mass of shoppers that some posters believe they will, it is a recognised brand by do is tescos,Lidil and Aldi and lord knows we have enough of them!

lassykk

merlante wrote: »

If you find that it is hassle to get into the city centre then maybe you should look at your living arrangements. People seem to think when they buy a house on the edge of town that it is the council's fault that town is inaccessible to them. It isn't, it's your fault for moving to a poor location. (Similarly, parking difficulties may be alleviated in many cases by trading down your SUV.)

So just because you want to keep your interest in the city centre alive the rest of us should move location?

You are being ridiculous. I live outside of the city and anytime myself or my wife need to do any decent amount of shopping (not groceries) we go to kilkenny/carlow because you can do it all in one / two shopping centres with better choice than in Waterford.

The council are also making it impossible to access the city centre anyway with their stupid new road layouts. Traveling down the quay towards the clock tower is the most idiotic road layout I have ever come across in a city. Narrowing the quay to one lane coming the other way is also ridiculous.

If I could avoid shopping in Waterford City altogether I would and just go to shopping centres on the outskirts of Waterford instead.

Silverado

lassykk wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

What an attitude! I suppose you just want to put a large hoarding all around the city centre with a sign saying "Closed indefinitely".

mike65

I missed the SUV comment, says it all really. Pure snobbery. (and no I don't have one, or indeed any car right now).