SVP not to feed Eastern Europeans?

Unavailable for Comment

Aquila wrote: »

dont ruin their stereotypical perception of Central/Eastern Europe..vodka for all!!!!!

If you were to read my posts you would see I have done nothing but defend Eastern Europe's ability to look after its own citizens. A damn sight better than your insignificant quips have anyway.

EarlERizer

It's a shame the way the thread had gone off on a racial tangent singling out certain countries (Poland & Lithuania) and their people,The opening post (or atleast I thought) was about immigrant scroungers regardless of country of origin.

I've worked with many Polish & Lithuanian nationals,some I got along with more than others,a few I'd consider friends in that I am still in regular contact with. They aren't too dissimular to our own,and like our own the form opinions on 'the way things are'.

I've learnt from speaking with them there is a percentage of people arriving here from places such as Poland & Lithuania (amongst others no doubt)with no intention of looking for work as the benefit system here is (in their opinions) easy money and when coupled with other avenues for making money,quite a benefical lifestyle choice.

Lets be clear here,Immigrant workers,be they Polish,Lithuanian,Romanian,Estonian,Czech,English or whatever have much the same attitude to us when it comes to scroungers and free loaders from their countries,It's not where the person is from it's the invidual and their attitude and/or reason to be here.

Turning it into a racial debate just gives the powers that be the stick with which to beat the valid protest's with!

p.s.
Speaking with the said immigrant friends,should I or any of us choose to go and live in their countries we would be entitled to NOTHING! by way of benefits,assistance of any kind.

haminka

Unavailable for Comment wrote: »

I inferred it from your comments constantly dismissing or attacking any idea of repatriation.

If Eastern European country's have welfare systems that are as capable as ours at looking after people then what does it matter where people receive their benefits from? Unless you believe they're not.

I never said that and I do not relate the repatriation to my lack of belief in social systems of the Eastern European countries /it's countries, not country's/.
I expressed my opinions on the support of homeless or unemployed foreigners - as a foreigner myself, who contributes to the Irish economy by paying my taxes here, spending my money here /or whatever is left after the mortgage, bills, childcare and fuel are paid/ I have a problem with someone else telling me should I find myself in a situation where I'd be out of work I should leave Ireland and not claim any benefits because somehow I believe that after having spent most of my working life here I can claim support. And as someone who supports Irish based charities who work for people in Ireland I have a problem with the fact that they would refuse to support foreigners.

lividduck

CJC999 wrote: »

Not strictly true, if Irish go to the US, australia, canada, where ever, theyre not entitled to dole and handouts for absolutely anything and everything. If they lose their jobs then they go hungry and usually come home.

Many immigrants arrived here purely for the excessive and ridiculously easy access to welfare handouts. Very very few Roma have actually worked here, yet a huge amount of them are on some form of welfare and are being housed. They contributed absolutely nothing to this country and therefore deserve absolutely nothing.

I have no problem with helping those that came here to work and have since lost their jobs, its the people who came here purely to scrounge and live off the state that i have a problem with. They should be deported without leave to appeal and banned from re-entry...forever.

Can you please cite some evidence for this patently untrue assertion?

Unavailable for Comment

haminka wrote: »

I never said that and I do not relate the repatriation to my lack of belief in social systems of the Eastern European countries /it's countries, not country's/.

Sorry for the typo but I'm relieved you managed to figure it out all by yourself.

haminka wrote: »

I expressed my opinions on the support of homeless or unemployed foreigners - as a foreigner myself, who contributes to the Irish economy by paying my taxes here, spending my money here /or whatever is left after the mortgage, bills, childcare and fuel are paid/ I have a problem with someone else telling me should I find myself in a situation where I'd be out of work I should leave Ireland and not claim any benefits because somehow I believe that after having spent most of my working life here I can claim support. And as someone who supports Irish based charities who work for people in Ireland I have a problem with the fact that they would refuse to support foreigners.

You realise this is about a voluntary repatriation program don't you? There is no legal basis for refusing aid to the needy despite any SVP representative's claims.

We're not talking cattle trucks and barbed wire although perhaps your hysteria and blind indignation shows you don't read as well as you critique?

wexie

Seeing as both myself and my OH are bleedin foreigners, if we lost our jobs and got repatriated as some of you are putting it so nicely, would you guys take care of the half a million worth of mortgage we have?

Because if this is the prevailing attitude here then that would actually be quite an attractive proposition.

haminka

Unavailable for Comment wrote: »

Sorry for the typo but I'm relieved you managed to figure it out all by yourself.



You realise this is about a voluntary repatriation program don't you? There is no legal basis for refusing aid to the needy despite any SVP representative's claims.

We're not talking cattle trucks and barbed wire although perhaps your hysteria and blind indignation shows you don't read as well as you critique?

No, the original post and the OPs remarks were very much general. There was no talk of voluntary repatriation. And the only hysteria on display here is in your wishful thinking there was any from my side. It's not. I'm just expressing my opinion as a taxpayer in this country, quite rightly peeved off at the attitude of public servants who live from my taxes as well.

mattjack

Unavailable for Comment wrote: »

Sorry for the typo but I'm relieved you managed to figure it out all by yourself.



You realise this is about a voluntary repatriation program don't you? There is no legal basis for refusing aid to the needy despite any SVP representative's claims.

We're not talking cattle trucks and barbed wire although perhaps your hysteria and blind indignation shows you don't read as well as you critique?

I posted a little earlier on this,I do some work for a charity in Dublin and the instruction as far as I know is that SVP in Cork have been told not to assist any foreign national in the hope that they will go home.

From what we can gather is that the Homeless Agency in Ireland is hoping that the fear of complete destitution will make people avail of repatriation.

Its not SVP'S policy.

Its a policy/decision that seemed to have been made last Friday/Monday.

I,m not sure how comprehensive SVP's assistance is in Cork,but where I work basic food ,limited clothing,washing,toilet and medical services are provided and I know for some of our clients if these services were to become unavailable it would be a disaster.

haminka

wexie wrote: »

Seeing as both myself and my OH are bleedin foreigners, if we lost our jobs and got repatriated as some of you are putting it so nicely, would you guys take care of the half a million worth of mortgage we have?

Because if this is the prevailing attitude here then that would actually be quite an attractive proposition.

Well, I already suggested that. And my family have a place to go to should things go pear-shaped here so I will gladly transfer the burden of my mortgage on all Jack Russells of Ireland.

Crann na Beatha

This post has been deleted.

Unavailable for Comment

haminka wrote: »

No, the original post and the OPs remarks were very much general. There was no talk of voluntary repatriation. And the only hysteria on display here is in your wishful thinking there was any from my side. It's not. I'm just expressing my opinion as a taxpayer in this country, quite rightly peeved off at the attitude of public servants who live from my taxes as well.

I have been commenting only on the facts that are mentioned in the OP's article

1) Migrants are offered a free flight home by the Irish State.

2) that there is a voluntary repatriation program being run in Dublin with the aim of helping foreign people return to their countries of origin should they wish.

I pay no attention to "claims" or "unwritten rules" etc because I don't believe they're accurate. The State's malfeasance in such a policy of pressurising charities to refuse aid would mean exposure to legal action that would cost many multiples of what they could hope to save even if every foreign homeless person left. Added to that would be potential criminal charges that could arise should it be held that people have died or being injured as a result of such influence.

Do you think there are many civil servants willing to take such a risk to save the state money?

You have misunderstood everything I have posted if you believe I am for forcible repatriation.

Nodin

EarlERizer wrote: »

It's a shame the way the thread had gone off on a racial tangent singling out certain countries (Poland & Lithuania) and their people,The opening post (or atleast I thought) was about immigrant scroungers regardless of country of origin..

No, it was about people who'd fallen on hard times.

EarlERizer wrote: »

p.s.
Speaking with the said immigrant friends,should I or any of us choose to go and live in their countries we would be entitled to NOTHING! by way of benefits,assistance of any kind.

....unless we worked there for some specified period etc, the same way it is here.

Unavailable for Comment

mattjack wrote: »

I posted a little earlier on this,I do some work for a charity in Dublin and the instruction as far as I know is that SVP in Cork have been told not to assist any foreign national in the hope that they will go home.

From what we can gather is that the Homeless Agency in Ireland is hoping that the fear of complete destitution will make people avail of repatriation.

Its not SVP'S policy.

Its a policy/decision that seemed to have been made last Friday/Monday.

I,m not sure how comprehensive SVP's assistance is in Cork,but where I work basic food ,limited clothing,washing,toilet and medical services are provided and I know for some of our clients if these services were to become unavailable it would be a disaster.

I actually have personal experience of the work that SVP does. I am also under no illusions that if its services were withdrawn life would become unmanageable for a great many people very quickly.

However I am also aware of the sort of settlement an individual could expect to receive if it was found that he was discriminated against for basic food or shelter by order of the Irish State. If he was attacked, or fell down or missed out on medical attention by government diktat.

It just makes no sense to have a policy like this even if it is only on the QT. After all there's no such thing as the QT when you're holding a summons.

mattjack

Unavailable for Comment wrote: »

I actually have personal experience of the work that SVP does. I am also under no illusions that if its services were withdrawn life would become unmanageable for a great many people very quickly.

However I am also aware of the sort of settlement an individual could expect to receive if it was found that he was discriminated against for basic food or shelter by order of the Irish State. If he was attacked, or fell down or missed out on medical attention by government diktat.

It just makes no sense to have a policy like this even if it is only on the QT. After all there's no such thing as the QT when you're holding a summons.

I'm agreeing with you,not attacking you.I've worked with SVP staff too and was on a Drop In floor this week when this news came out.

I understand what you are saying with the legal implications,though the immediate concern, I think , would be the almost immediate effects on the streets.

Jack_Russell

Unavailable for Comment wrote: »

I have been commenting only on the facts that are mentioned in the OP's article

1) Migrants are offered a free flight home by the Irish State.

2) that there is a voluntary repatriation program being run in Dublin with the aim of helping foreign people return to their countries of origin should they wish.

I pay no attention to "claims" or "unwritten rules" etc because I don't believe they're accurate. The State's malfeasance in such a policy of pressurising charities to refuse aid would mean exposure to legal action that would cost many multiples of what they could hope to save even if every foreign homeless person left. Added to that would be potential criminal charges that could arise should it be held that people have died or being injured as a result of such influence.

Do you think there are many civil servants willing to take such a risk to save the state money?

You have misunderstood everything I have posted if you believe I am for forcible repatriation.

i don't recall anyone advocating compulsory repatriation within the EU as it would be illegal. far better to reduce their dole payments to that prevailing in their home countries, or better still have their home country pay their dole.
the main reason they are staying here is because our SW payments are too generous. i mean no unemployed Irish person in their right mind would continue to reside in Poland if they were on the rock'n roll.

Nodin

Jack_Russell wrote: »

i don't recall anyone advocating compulsory repatriation within the EU as it would be illegal. far better to reduce their dole payments to that prevailing in their home countries,
.

Why would we do that when they'd paid indirect and direct taxation at our rates?

Jack_Russell wrote: »

the main reason they are staying here is because our SW payments are too generous. i mean no unemployed Irish person in their right mind would continue to reside in Poland if they were on the rock'n roll.

Why not?

You stated earlier

i would reckon the immigrant population from the Baltic states make-up a highly disproportionate percentage of drunken layabouts, as they do our dole queues

Do you have any evidence to back up those two points?

Unavailable for Comment

mattjack wrote: »

I'm agreeing with you,not attacking you.I've worked with SVP staff too and was on a Drop In floor this week when this news came out.

Sorry I didn't mean to sound aggressive. I was actually trying to reassure you that such a policy wasn't feasible! (Obviously badly)

mikeym

How come no one has mentioned all the NON EU nationals who get Social Welfare payments in this soft country without contributing to the state.

Im probably not allowed mention that or I would be considered racist by do-gooders.

Nodin

mikeym wrote: »

How come no one has mentioned all the NON EU nationals get Social Welfare payments in this soft country without contributing to the state.

Im probably not allowed mention that or I would be considered racist by do-gooders.

You can mention it in the same way you can mention the tooth fairy or leprachauns, as theres no ban on fairy stories afaik.

Crann na Beatha

This post has been deleted.

Jack_Russell

latest census figs. 766,770 residents who were born outside Ireland.

our young vibrant educated Irish people are being replaced with dole scroungers and vagrants!

this country is going downhill fast.
something needs to be done.

wexie

Jack_Russell wrote: »

latest census figs. 766,770 residents who were born outside Ireland.

our young vibrant educated Irish people are being replaced with dole scroungers and vagrants!

this country is going downhill fast.
something needs to be done.

I'm sorry but could you please clarify how (in your twisted mind) you've come to the conclusion that those to 'points' are related?

I appreciate this might come as a shock to you but if it wasn't for these bleedin' foreigners the whole Celtic Tiger wouldn't have happened. There would still be no motorways, broadband, LUAS, terminal 2 etc etc etc.

You obviously have some form of issue with foreigners, which is fine if that's how you want to live your life, but if you want to try to contribute to this conversation it would be good if you tried to use some logic and reason rather than lunatic ramblings based on what I can only call a childs reasoning and logic.

Nodin

Jack_Russell wrote: »

latest census figs. 766,770 residents who were born outside Ireland.

our young vibrant educated Irish people are being replaced with dole scroungers and vagrants!

this country is going downhill fast.
something needs to be done.

More nonsense. That's nice.

You stated earlier

i would reckon the immigrant population from the Baltic states make-up a highly disproportionate percentage of drunken layabouts, as they do our dole queues

Have you anything to back either of those claims up?

donegal_road

Jack_Russell wrote: »

latest census figs. 766,770 residents who were born outside Ireland.

our young vibrant educated Irish people are being replaced with dole scroungers and vagrants!

this country is going downhill fast.
something needs to be done.

one thing for it, pull out of the EU. It will be painful for a while, but once people get the message that there are no weekly cash handouts, they will gather up all their stuff, withdraw their savings

Herb Powell

Jack_Russell wrote: »

latest census figs. 766,770 residents who were born outside Ireland.

our young vibrant educated Irish people are being replaced with dole scroungers and vagrants!

this country is going downhill fast.
something needs to be done.

Ah yes, 766,770 foreign-nationals are ALL claiming benefits, and none of them are working, none of them came here for work.
I'm going to get infracted/banned for this, IDGAF, you're a fuccking moron, and it scares me that this fucckwit mentality is on the rise in Ireland

dr.bollocko

mod:
Jack Russell banned for the ludicrous nonsense above.

wexie

donegal_road wrote: »

one thing for it, pull out of the EU. It will be painful for a while, but once people get the message that there are no weekly cash handouts, they will gather up all their stuff, withdraw their savings

......Can you actually even begin to fathom the consequences of this happening?

mattjack

mikeym wrote: »

How come no one has mentioned all the NON EU nationals who get Social Welfare payments in this soft country without contributing to the state.

Im probably not allowed mention that or I would be considered racist by do-gooders.

Jack_Russell wrote: »

latest census figs. 766,770 residents who were born outside Ireland.

our young vibrant educated Irish people are being replaced with dole scroungers and vagrants!

this country is going downhill fast.
something needs to be done.

dr.bollocko wrote: »

mod:
Jack Russell banned for the ludicrous nonsense above.

Awwwww Bollocko...... you always arrive at the crucial moment.

dr.bollocko

MikeyM is worried about being called a racist by do-gooders because he doesn't know what he's talking about.
Is being called ill-informed by a do-gooder as bad?

mattjack

Jack_Russell wrote: »

1. Exactly. So stay @ home, unless you can find work. And go home if you cannot.
2. Name me 1 Pole, or Lthuanian, who has contributed anything of note to this country.
3. Aye! Personality goes a long way. Even (especially) for a vagrant.

Many Irish Jews supported the Irish Republican Army and the First Dail during the Irish War of Independence. Michael Noyk, was a Lithuanian born solicitor who became famous for defending captured Irish Republican prisoners such as Sean MacEoin. Robert Briscoe was a prominent member of the IRA during the Irish War of Independence and the Irish Civil War. He was sent by Michael Collins to Germany in 1920 to be the chief agent for procuring arms for the IRA. Briscoe proved to be highly successful at this mission and arms arrived into Ireland in spite of the British blockade.[14]


Let it go Mattjack,let it go..........:P

haminka

Unavailable for Comment wrote: »

I have been commenting only on the facts that are mentioned in the OP's article

1) Migrants are offered a free flight home by the Irish State.

2) that there is a voluntary repatriation program being run in Dublin with the aim of helping foreign people return to their countries of origin should they wish.

I pay no attention to "claims" or "unwritten rules" etc because I don't believe they're accurate. The State's malfeasance in such a policy of pressurising charities to refuse aid would mean exposure to legal action that would cost many multiples of what they could hope to save even if every foreign homeless person left. Added to that would be potential criminal charges that could arise should it be held that people have died or being injured as a result of such influence.

Do you think there are many civil servants willing to take such a risk to save the state money?

You have misunderstood everything I have posted if you believe I am for forcible repatriation.

I have no problem at all with a voluntary repatriaton, it is a very good offer. I have a problem with it being forced by refusing help to desperate people. And yes, I do believe the State would do that, not openly of course. Somehow I have no illusions about this establishment at all.

keith16

Jack_Russell wrote: »

that's a bit unfair Aquila.
Irish people are copping on that's all.
we're tired of supporting foreigners (and native Irish also) who contribute little/nothing.

What's wrong with that?

That's an outrageously hypocritical thing to say coming from the same person who said "name one one Pole / Lithuanian that has ever contributed anything of note to this country".

So you have gone from implying that they are all a drain on the country, to saying we don't want to support those who contribute nothing. Which is it?

I think deep down you would love to see the lot of them thrown out.

forfuxsake

keith16 wrote: »

That's an outrageously hypocritical thing to say coming from the same person who said "name one one Pole / Lithuanian that has ever contributed anything of note to this country".

So you have gone from implying that they are all a drain on the country, to saying we don't want to support those who contribute nothing. Which is it?

I think deep down you would love to see the lot of them thrown out.

:rolleyes:

Johro

forfuxsake wrote: »

Do as i say and not as I do.

Remember that boards.ie is not representative.

Fortunately.

Show Time

Jack_Russell wrote: »

Exactly charity stats at home.

also i have no problem with the Americans deporting illegal Irish, but I understood they have been doing so for years. A friend of mine as deported in 1984!
Very few if any Irish in America are signing on. Quite simply 'cos they would not qualify for American benefits, unlike the ridiclously generous payments we dole out. They come over here work for a few months and then expect us to subsidise there vagrant lifestyles.

No wonder they don't want to go back!

My tongue in cheek comment set you off on a tangent which lead to you getting the boot.
It was the most enjoyment i have had online in a while.

lisaface

starviewadams wrote: »

The attitude from some posters here,which is bordering on racism,is disgusting.

Have people forgotten how us Irish emigrated to basically any country with a functioning economy not so long ago,and are currently doing the same again right now.

I would agree with this IF ,you weren't being so dumb, there's a fair difference between racism and NATIONALISM. Polish people are mainly of the same race to us Irish people, therefore I don't understand the racism.

Unless you meant other countries in Eastern Europe and people saying yes I agree w/ SVP on this one!? Then again, from what I can see from this thread, it's mainly about; Polish people...and something about eating swans?? wtf? (did i miss a joke!?)

---

Oh this "It has been said to me by state employees who work in the area: ‘Do not feed or house them, then they will go home. If you feed them they will not go home.’ They don’t want them here."Made me think 'it's kind of like they're comparing these people to unwelcome cats!!


I don't think it's fair but infairness, I do believe not so long ago,many countries within Europe AND The U.S were also 'shifting the Irish' out of their countries. Yes we as a country immigrated (and still do) ,but what you'll find is MOST of the people that do leave, go to primarily white and english speaking countries. (that's not me being racist, i'm simply stating it as it is). Very few people will immigrate to a non-white country, unless they have ties there.

Oh and finally to the person who said All Irish people abroad are getting the same help, bullcrap - I know many people struggling to live abroad but yes with shame they do not want to return and to 'sign on the dole',they'd rather struggle their arses off, than come home and sign on,because nobody likes signing on!

I'm kind of torn with this 'argument' , I can see where SVP are coming from,however I hate to see someone go without, it's just wrong. I don't care what race,religion, or nationality they may be, as long as it's not intentional robbing of a nation, i don't like seeing someone 'really down and out'.

johncdub

Hi Guys


I'm currently on a disability payment which has been reduced to E80 per week. The fuel allowance has just ended. I'm Irish and 27. I've worked all my life.


I have no other income, and I'm unable to pay bills. Having had Cancer 2 years ago, I seem to be extremely sensitive to the cold. I've contacted the SV de P. First time in my life. I need to heat my house, as I've been without heat for 2 months. I'm freezing. I've asked for assistance, and I've told them I'll pay them back when back on my feet.


I wondered if anyone else has ever received assistance from SVP? I'm mortified asking for help, but I have no choice. Do they visit your home, ask for proof of bills, bank account?


PM me if you wish.

Thanks

Sappa

John don`t be mortified,we all fall sometimes in life and I am sure the vinnies never look down on a person they immediately think of how they can help them.
Get i contact with them,if your in trouble they are there for you in this situation and hope you can get back on your feet.

johncdub

Thank you so much for your posting.

I do feel ashamed. That I can live with. But living without heat is unbearable. I guess I just felt that they are more likely to help families and single parents.

mikemac1

Nothing to be ashamed of

Just contact them and as I understand two members will come out to visit you.

It's a chat, not an interview and they'll make you feel at ease

The help is there for you and you're far from alone, don't suffer in silence

johncdub

Thank you for your post.

I was worried that:

(a) They only help single mothers/families
(B) That I might know the volunteers.

Stupid I know

mikemac1

johncdub wrote: »

(B) That I might know the volunteers.

This is possible, local people are in your area

But don't stress over it, they are there to help and not to judge and they will never pass your name around the area

steddyeddy

In fairness Im not sure about eastern europeans but I know the svp feed englsih and scottish people I know. Im fairly sure the svp would ignore any orders to feed any race. They are an excellent organization.

forfuxsake

johncdub wrote: »

Hi Guys


I'm currently on a disability payment which has been reduced to E80 per week. The fuel allowance has just ended. I'm Irish and 27. I've worked all my life.


I have no other income, and I'm unable to pay bills. Having had Cancer 2 years ago, I seem to be extremely sensitive to the cold. I've contacted the SV de P. First time in my life. I need to heat my house, as I've been without heat for 2 months. I'm freezing. I've asked for assistance, and I've told them I'll pay them back when back on my feet.


I wondered if anyone else has ever received assistance from SVP? I'm mortified asking for help, but I have no choice. Do they visit your home, ask for proof of bills, bank account?


PM me if you wish.

Thanks

There is no shame at all in asking for help. I've not yet had the need for them myself but I would have no hesitation in doing so and I have come very very close to needing their help in the past. You should post in the benefits forum, €80 a week seems extremely low and somebody there may be able to help make sure you are getting everything you are entitled to. Glad to hear you using a past tense when talking about the cancer and I hope you get back on your feet soon.:)

steddyeddy

johncdub wrote: »

Hi Guys


I'm currently on a disability payment which has been reduced to E80 per week. The fuel allowance has just ended. I'm Irish and 27. I've worked all my life.


I have no other income, and I'm unable to pay bills. Having had Cancer 2 years ago, I seem to be extremely sensitive to the cold. I've contacted the SV de P. First time in my life. I need to heat my house, as I've been without heat for 2 months. I'm freezing. I've asked for assistance, and I've told them I'll pay them back when back on my feet.


I wondered if anyone else has ever received assistance from SVP? I'm mortified asking for help, but I have no choice. Do they visit your home, ask for proof of bills, bank account?


PM me if you wish.

Thanks

John Im so sorry to hear of your troubles. Dont be afriad to contact the st.vincent de paul they are very very helpful. Theres nothing to be ashamed of. Your not the author of your troubles and they know that. As far as I know they do visit your home but im not sure about the rest.

EGAR

John, a friend of mine fell onto hard times last year when her husband left her and she ended up in hospital etc, no children involved and when she was released from hospital she just could not cope financially, had very little and did not know what to do. She went to SVP and they helped her out. She said, they were very helpful, non-judgmental and provided help AND an open mind.

No need to be ashamed, the help is there, you just need to ask.

mattjack

johncdub wrote: »

(B) That I might know the volunteers.

Don't worry about a staff member knowing you, all are bound by the conditional confidentiality of their agency.

johncdub

Hi Guys

Thanks for all your posts.

This is not where I imagined I would be at 27, after university, working for 7 years, and having come through an illness. Social Welfare just don't care.

Thank you

Sappa

johncdub wrote: »

Hi Guys

Thanks for all your posts.

This is not where I imagined I would be at 27, after university, working for 7 years, and having come through an illness. Social Welfare just don't care.

Thank you

I don't want to derail the thread but when you see the amount of undesirables from home and abroad milking the system and a genuine case like yourself John is forced to struggle it really irks me.
They have not got a clue in those social offices and are too concerned with looking after their own arse.

johncdub

Thanks guys