The Census results Are Out (quite interesting) Merge. All census talk in here.

mike65

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2012/0329/breaking17.html

Headline for me is that the population last Spring was 4.6 million despite all the emigration and that 30% of properties in Leitrim lie empty while down the road Cavans population went up by 14% between 2006 and 2011. Swans continue to be under threat with Polish population doubling in size.

Oh and Dublin had the lowest male/female ratio with only 949 males for every 1,000 females. I better move!

chin_grin

mike65 wrote: »

Swans continue to be under threat with Polish population doubling in size.

Is this really necessary to perpetuate a stereotype?

Genghiz Cohen

chin_grin wrote: »

Is this really necessary to perpetuate a stereotype?

Yes

chin_grin

Genghiz Cohen wrote: »

Yes

Ok then. Carry on! :pac:

Orizio

chin_grin wrote: »

Is this really necessary to perpetuate a stereotype?

Indeed.

chin_grin

Orizio wrote: »

Indeed.

I concur.

The King of Moo

mikemac1 wrote: »

People identifying themselves as Catholic has increased

I think there were many on boards who thought it would go down


More Poles in Ireland then Brits, that's suprising
Also suprising is that there are more Poles here now then during the Celtic Tiger.

That was mainly due to Eastern European immigrants though.

The number of people identifying as Catholic did rise by 5%, but the number of those identifying themselves as non-religious increased by 45%, to just under 270,000 people.

Dravokivich

mikemac1 wrote: »

People identifying themselves as Catholic has increased

Could also be a matter of parents identifying their kids as Catholic. Considering the rise in population...

MayoForSam

mikemac1 wrote: »

People identifying themselves as Catholic has increased

I think there were many on boards who thought it would go down

The increase in the number of Catholic immigrants outweighed the increase in former native Irish Catholics I guess.

The long-term trend would still be downwards though.

mikemac1

Dravokivich wrote: »

Could also be a matter of parents identifying their kids as Catholic. Considering the rise in population...

You could use that for any group, even the non religious

Pompey Magnus

mikemac1 wrote: »

People identifying themselves as Catholic has increased

A fact which is supported by the ever increasing attendances at mass on Sundays...oh wait...

Dravokivich

mikemac1 wrote: »

You could use that for any group, even the non religious

Yeah, which is what I meant. Most people recorded in the census, the form is filled out referencing them. They are not identifying themselves.

Immaculate Pasta

I bet the atheists are fuming :pac:

mikemac1

Immaculate Pasta wrote: »

I bet the atheists are fuming :pac:

An angry atheist? :eek:

Never

suicide_circus

MayoForSam wrote: »

The increase in the number of Catholic immigrants outweighed the increase in former native Irish Catholics I guess.

The long-term trend would still be downwards though.

Bloody backwards foreigners, ruining our new smug enlightened self-image!

Quazzie

mikemac1 wrote: »

Also suprising is that there are more Poles here now then during the Celtic Tiger.

They're coming in larger numbers now because they know they don't have to work to get large sums of money.

KeithAFC

For me this is proof that liberalism and Atheism can't be combined. Eastern Europeans are more dedicated towards their faith and religion. The sheer amount of immigration has made the number of people declaring Catholicism has went up.

I think this has been a huge defeat for Atheism/Agnosticism. 270,000 out of 4.3 million people is not good news. Even if it did rise by 45%.

Nothingbetter2d

it seems there is more women than men in ireland must be something to do with all those blokes working on building sites in australia now

mikemac1

This is AH so we'll get the traveller post out of the way

mike65 wrote: »

Cavans population went up by 14% between 2006 and 2011.

Cavan has seen the largest traveller population percentage increase, 114%
What's so attractive about Cavan?

Second was Donegal, 99% increase

Largest number increase was Galway, in particular Galway City

It has increased in every county except Waterford where it decreased 7%
Waterford also has the lowest number of travelers per thousand people

Longford has the highest number per thousand people.

seamus

KeithAFC wrote: »

I think this has been a huge defeat for Atheism/Agnosticism. 270,000 out of 4.3 million people is not good news. Even if it did rise by 45%.

What's most annoying about this is people inability to interpret simple numbers accurately.

The proportion of people declaring Catholicism dropped. A small drop, but it dropped, it didn't rise.

A 45% increase in those declaring "No religion", especially considering that the majority of those are Irish, would be considered a major victory by any campaign. You were hardly expecting a jump of hundreds of thousands?

Until the Irish get over this idea that catholicism is a trait of one's heritage, we'll be stuck with this nonsense for a while.

On another thread there was a guy trying to argue that he was an atheist catholic FFS. That's about as moronic as calling yourself a black caucasian.

I'm actually a little bit heartened to see a big increase in traveller numbers. It possibly indicates a willingness on that community's part to engage with the rest of society and put themselves down on the census form.

Turtyturd

mikemac1 wrote: »

Cavan has seen the largest traveller population percentage increase, 114%
What's so attractive about Cavan?

Second was Donegal, 99% increase

People from Cavan rarely spend their money and probably keep it under the mattress, easy pickings for the new arrivals.

Two stereotypes in one go.

KeithAFC

You were hardly expecting a jump of hundreds of thousands?

Actually I was. I was expecting a lot higher than that. I have heard a lot of complaining about the Roman Catholic Church in recent years. The abuse scandals, the questioning of their faith and so on. I honestly thought it would be much higher than that. I think others probably did too.

But you could be right on the culture thing.

DonJose

mikemac1 wrote: »

Also suprising is that there are more Poles here now then during the Celtic Tiger.

Its a no-brainer considering the dole in Ireland is higher than the average wage in Poland "Average net salary €618/month", add on childrens allowance, medical card and other benefits, Ireland is the place to be

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Poland

Penn

mikemac1 wrote: »

People identifying themselves as Catholic has increased

I think there were many on boards who thought it would go down

Number went up, but overall percentage of people identifying as Catholic went down by over 2.5%

Immaculate Pasta

KeithAFC wrote: »

I think this has been a huge defeat for Atheism/Agnosticism. 270,000 out of 4.3 million people is not good news. Even if it did rise by 45%.

I don't really understand your post Keith. You're treating your expression of faith as a bloody football team! I can imagine you a press conference

"Yeah it's been a bad year for atheism but we'll be back fighting for the next census no question about that. Credit to the Catholics, they did well, the signing of the Polish was a masterstroke in hindsight. Unfortunately the side is just lacking investment at the moment. But until Richard Dawkins writes his next book we'll be struggling to increase those numbers ."

:pac:

Jezek

DonJose wrote: »

Its a no-brainer considering the dole in Ireland is higher than the average wage in Poland "Average net salary €618/month", add on childrens allowance, medical card and other benefits, Ireland is the place to be

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Poland

Comparing average salaries is useless - living doesn't cost the same in both countries.

KeithAFC

Immaculate Pasta wrote: »

I don't really understand your post Keith. You're treating your expression of faith as a bloody football team! I can imagine you a press conference

"Yeah it's been a bad year for atheism but we'll be back fighting for the next census no question about that. Credit to the Catholics, they did well, the signing of the Polish was a masterstroke in hindsight. Unfortunately the side is just lacking investment at the moment. But until Richard Dawkins writes his next book we'll be struggling to increase those numbers ."

:pac:

:pac: Feels like that sometimes.

TanG411

The ratio of men to women in Cork is 0.984/1.

There might actually be a woman out there for me.

http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/100/128/happycat.gif?1318992465

token101

Tomorrows Daily Mail headline: Fundamentalist Catholic Poles flood Ireland in search of tasty swans

sbsquarepants

seamus wrote: »

I'm actually a little bit heartened to see a big increase in traveller numbers. It possibly indicates a willingness on that community's part to engage with the rest of society and put themselves down on the census form.

Probably thought there was a fiddle in it somewhere.

Mal-Adjusted

only 8 posts to turn the thread into a religious winge-fest...nice on AH!

AeoNGriM

chin_grin wrote: »

Is this really necessary to perpetuate a stereotype?

Is it really necessary not to have any trace of a sense of humour?

mikemac1

seamus wrote: »

I'm actually a little bit heartened to see a big increase in traveller numbers. It possibly indicates a willingness on that community's part to engage with the rest of society and put themselves down on the census form.

They are experts at filling up forms for the State

Jimoslimos

Any chance (from both sides) that absolute figures could be quoted - instead of eye-catching and misleading relative % increases?

mikemac1

All the figures you want are here
http://www.cso.ie/en/media/csoie/census/documents/census2011pdr/Census%202011%20Highlights%20Part%201.pdf

DebDynamite

Jezek wrote: »

Comparing average salaries is useless - living doesn't cost the same in both countries.

The Polish can live quite frugally though - a few lads living in one house, 2/3 to a room (particularly if living in rural Ireland where rents are even lower); shop in Aldi/Lidl, get cans and drink and home; a lot don't seem to have a huge interest in the latest fashion...

gamgsam

Immaculate Pasta wrote: »

I bet the atheists are fuming :pac:

You could say that..

I had a bit of a dilemma filling the census. I'm atheist to the hilt, but was baptised, christened and confirmed. I put down Catholic as I am actually in the church, even though I don't believe it. My housemate thought it was nuts and he just put down atheist even though he hasn't officially left the Catholic church.

Weird one. Next time I will just put atheist I think, in the mean times I'll try to leave.

Doc Ruby

seamus wrote: »

Until the Irish get over this idea that catholicism is a trait of one's heritage, we'll be stuck with this nonsense for a while.

Technically though catholicism is a trait of the heritage. Doesn't mean it has to be a trait of the culture or future of the country, but there probably won't be any churches bulldozed anytime soon. Are there any numbers on religious affiliation by age, or does the census go into that detail? I reckon that once the pension-age people shuffle on there will be a drastic increase in those identifying as atheists, as the younger generations won't have to make observances to keep the older generation happy.

Interesting about the number of people born outside the country, that's about one person in six now, and the huge bulk of this over the last eight years. I'd like to see any other country doing something similar without all sorts of social problems, such widespread acceptance makes one proud to be Irish.

Duggys Housemate

There is already a thread in the Atheist forum on a minor part of this report - which is, as a whole, very well presented - on the absolute disaster of cultural catholics still calling themselves Catholic, despite the angry Atheists getting even angrier in their own forums on the internet, where they group-think together, in ever increasing angry rhetoric. Unfortunately the rest of the country doesn't read the A&A forum.

Can this one talk about the rest of the report? Won't people even spare a little thought for the swans?

DebDynamite

gamgsam wrote: »

You could say that..

I had a bit of a dilemma filling the census. I'm atheist to the hilt, but was baptised, christened and confirmed. I put down Catholic as I am actually in the church, even though I don't believe it. My housemate thought it was nuts and he just put down atheist even though he hasn't officially left the Catholic church.

Weird one. Next time I will just put atheist I think, in the mean times I'll try to leave.

How does one "leave" the Catholic church though? I thought the Census was the only way of telling numbers?

Duggys Housemate

seamus wrote: »

On another thread there was a guy trying to argue that he was an atheist catholic FFS. That's about as moronic as calling yourself a black caucasian.

Or calling yourself an Atheist Jew? Or course it isn't. The minute you go to Northern Ireland you will be a Mick - as well as a fenian bastard - regardless of what you personally think of God. There are Anglican atheists as well. It isn't just the religion, its the upbringing and the historical narratives, and the folkways.

Doc Ruby wrote: »

Interesting about the number of people born outside the country, that's about one person in six now, and the huge bulk of this over the last eight years. I'd like to see any other country doing something similar without all sorts of social problems, such widespread acceptance makes one proud to be Irish.

Yes, Ireland did well there.

Duggys Housemate

DebDynamite wrote: »

How does one "leave" the Catholic church though? I thought the Census was the only way of telling numbers?

The Catholic Church makes that hard, but it doesn't matter. You can add what you want to the Census.

tin79

KeithAFC wrote: »

For me this is proof that liberalism and Atheism can't be combined. Eastern Europeans are more dedicated towards their faith and religion. The sheer amount of immigration has made the number of people declaring Catholicism has went up.

I think this has been a huge defeat for Atheism/Agnosticism. 270,000 out of 4.3 million people is not good news. Even if it did rise by 45%.

Defeat? Atheism is not a sports team and its not a competition.

Oh no Atheism has been defeated Budda here I come!

Duggys Housemate

Hey the urban population is 62%!

seamus

Duggys Housemate wrote: »

Or calling yourself an Atheist Jew?

Yes...Judaism is a belief system, not a personal trait. If you do not accept the belief system, you're not a member of the club, by default.

Jews aren't a distinct race. It's a state of mind.

The minute you go to Northern Ireland you will be a Mick - as well as a fenian bastard - regardless of what you personally think of God.

From an idiot's point of view. Not that being a "mick" or a "fenian" has anything to do with God. This is about how a person defines themselves. I wouldn't call myself a fenian no matter where I was, and if asked on a census in NI, I would say no, I'm not.
Calling yourself atheist, but them aligning yourself with theistic beliefs is the ultimate in cognitive dissonance.

Cardinal Richelieu

Surprised no one commented on this, travellers are outgrowing the rest of the population.

The number of people enumerated as Irish Travellers in Census 2011 increased by 32 per cent from 22,435 to 29,573, with all counties apart from Limerick and Waterford showing increases larger than the increase in the general population.

marozz

gamgsam wrote: »

You could say that..

I had a bit of a dilemma filling the census. I'm atheist to the hilt, but was baptised, christened and confirmed. I put down Catholic as I am actually in the church, even though I don't believe it. My housemate thought it was nuts and he just put down atheist even though he hasn't officially left the Catholic church.

Weird one. Next time I will just put atheist I think, in the mean times I'll try to leave.

In principle you did answer the question on the census correctly. As far as I know , leaving the Catholic church is no longer an option. They managed to put a stop to that.

My name is URL

gamgsam wrote: »

You could say that..

I had a bit of a dilemma filling the census. I'm atheist to the hilt, but was baptised, christened and confirmed. I put down Catholic as I am actually in the church, even though I don't believe it. My housemate thought it was nuts and he just put down atheist even though he hasn't officially left the Catholic church.

Weird one. Next time I will just put atheist I think, in the mean times I'll try to leave.

Your housemate wasn't far off! =p

If you consider yourself to be an atheist then that's what you should have put down. Whether or not you have officially left the church is moot considering that you (seemingly) reject the faith system to begin with.

Duggys Housemate

seamus wrote: »

Yes...Judaism is a belief system, not a personal trait. If you do not accept the belief system, you're not a member of the club, by default.
The minute you go to Northern Ireland you will be a Mick - as well as a fenian bastard - regardless of what you personally think of God.From an idiot's point of view. Not that being a "mick" or a "fenian" has anything to do with God. This is about how a person defines themselves. Calling yourself atheist, but them aligning yourself with theistic beliefs is the ultimate in cognitive dissonance.

Jews aren't a distinct race. It's a state of mind.

Every time an Modern atheist comes into a debate they throw the word idiot around freely. Jews exist whether they are religious, or not. Ask someone who a secular Jew. Most will do something like a bar mitzvah, or passover, whilst not believing a word. It becomes an ancestral tradition, same with confirmation and Christmas, or Easter.

Being called a Mick is a religious insult, and you will get it whatever you believe.

In any case the angries on the internet should possibly try and get out of their self-appointed ghettoes, talking to yourselves on the A&A forums here is not going to convince anybody. Get out on the streets, where you will have to change the rhetoric a bit, as shouting about imaginary friends, and sneers about morons aint going to cut it in the real world. And, in any case, this debate is continuing in the A&A forum, the AH debate should be about the rest of the report.

Paparazzo

Mal-Adjusted wrote: »

only 8 posts to turn the thread into a religious winge-fest...nice on AH!

And you continue the trend by posting in AH, whinging about religion. Good work

Duggys Housemate

marozz wrote: »

In principle you did answer the question on the census correctly. As far as I know , leaving the Catholic church is no longer an option. They managed to put a stop to that.

Nonsense, the State doesn't care what the Catholic laws are, it is asking you what you think you are.