The Census results Are Out (quite interesting) Merge. All census talk in here.

amacachi

omega666 wrote: »

Dosen't matter, it's still the vast majority by a loooong....way and increasing
in numbers more than any other religion or non religion.

Its majority is getting smaller, they used to comprise 86.8% of the population and now it's 84.2%.

K-9

amacachi wrote: »

Love the headline on Aertel: Divorce rate - up 150% since 2002
What a surprise :rolleyes:

Indeed, we've only had it 17 years or so a 150% rise isn't that far out of step!

amacachi

K-9 wrote: »

Indeed, we've only had it 17 years or so a 150% rise isn't that far out of step!

Not even 16 years, wasn't signed til June 96. With the restrictions (living apart for 4 of the previous 5 years) one has to meet to get a divorce it's hardly surprising that the rate was so low in 2001, just 5 years after it was allowed. Just can't see how it's particularly newsworthy is all. :pac:

later12

omega666 wrote: »

So instead of a major decline in the RCC they actually had a bigger increase than the atheists!!

With all the polls in favor of atheism and catholic bashing threads here on boards over the last few years it seems the whole 6% of atheists must be boards members!

I don't think it should come as any surprise that boards.ie members are not reflective of Irish society. Take a look at the 2011 boards election poll. It underestimated support for Fianna Fail by over 50% of their actual %, and markedly overestimated support for Labour, Sinn Fein, Greens and Independents.

markus pride

mike65 wrote: »

Oh and Dublin had the lowest male/female ratio with only 949 males for every 1,000 females. I better move!

Doesn't matter because women from Dublin are all stuck-up anyway. You could have 50 males for every 1,000 females and they'd still demand nothing less than Brad Pitt.

K-9

amacachi wrote: »

Not even 16 years, wasn't signed til June 96. With the restrictions (living apart for 4 of the previous 5 years) one has to meet to get a divorce it's hardly surprising that the rate was so low in 2001, just 5 years after it was allowed. Just can't see how it's particularly newsworthy is all. :pac:

Indeed, no doubt somebody will pick up on it as reflecting a breakdown in society, thinking of an Indo journalist in particular and Yep, its an unremarkable statistic which makes it strange that they did remark on it.

In 20 years times they'll be remarking about the 300% increase in social partnerships.

later12 wrote: »

I don't think it should come as any surprise that boards.ie members are not reflective of Irish society. Take a look at the 2011 boards election poll. It underestimated support for Fianna Fail by over 50% of their actual %, and markedly overestimated support for Labour, Sinn Fein, Greens and Independents.

Indeed, much as I like Boards, there is an age slant in the demographic, you notice it in politics and the odd time I come across a religion thread. I'd say atheists in their 20's are very internet friendly, bit like Shinners and the ULA et al, indeed it could be in someway linked.

retalivity

ah here...its been 12 hours since i posted about the mauritians, and no replies!
Someone must know the story there??!!

K-9

retalivity wrote: »

ah here...its been 12 hours since i posted about the mauritians, and no replies!
Someone must know the story there??!!

Seems odd, a 600% increase or something.

The number of Elvis Presley impersonators has reached an all-time record high, very worrying, there are now at least 85,000 Elvis’s around the world, compared to only 170 in 1977 when he died. At this rate of growth, experts predict that by 2019 Elvis impersonators will make up a third of the world population.

A worrying trend for obesity levels and Health Departments but McDonalds are loving it.

Mal-Adjusted

KeithAFC wrote: »

The Irish stat is a lot of nonsense to be honest. I don't think that figure can be taken seriously.

shouldn't you be busy bombing a pub somewhere?

Seachmall

Helix wrote: »

perhaps they should add a second religion question on the census with a simple yes or no option. "Are you a practicing member of the religion you ticked above (if you ticked no religion, disregard)?"

But then they'd have to define what a "practicing member" is.

"Oh, well I was baptised, had my communion and then my confirmation therefore I'm a practicing member".

Ghost Buster

amacachi wrote: »

Its majority is getting smaller, they used to comprise 86.8% of the population and now it's 84.2%.

And part of that 84%, for example, would comprise my neighbours 4 kids who other than being trotted out for communions and confirmations do not have any other involvements in Catholicism what so ever, have no hint of religion within their family life and whos parents think catholicism is all nonsense but still call themselves catholics.

RiseToTheTop

Mr Trade In wrote: »

You have got none.

That's cos i'm not an arrogant atheist prick who think every Christian is a dumbfounded idiot.

Seachmall

RiseToTheTop wrote: »

That's cos i'm not an arrogant atheist prick who think every Christian is a dumbfounded idiot.

I think these atheists are a lot like the PC Brigade.


They seem to be everywhere yet no one can actually find one.

Anyone

Seachmall wrote: »

I think these atheists are a lot like the PC Brigade.


They seem to be everywhere yet no one can actually find one.

Its funny to read this thread and the one in the A+A forum, and the comments made about Catholics. Some people really have some major issues with Catholics.

mikemac1

Seachmall wrote: »

I think these atheists are a lot like the PC Brigade.


They seem to be everywhere yet no one can actually find one.

How about this post from A+A forum
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=77837949&postcount=69

Arrogance just dripping off it

Disagree with the atheists and you must be stupid

RiseToTheTop

mikemac1 wrote: »

How about this post
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=77837949&postcount=69

Arrogance just dripping off it

Disagree with the atheists and you must be stupid

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=77838001&postcount=74

St.Spodo

I would bet good money that a huge number of Irish children with Irish parents under the age of 18 were put down as catholic by their parents. That's several hundred thousand people.

Anyone

St.Spodo wrote: »

I would bet good money that a huge number of Irish children with Irish parents under the age of 18 were put down as catholic by their parents. That's several hundred thousand people.

On the same side, I'd guess the athiest parents all put down their children as athiests.

St.Spodo

Anyone wrote: »

On the same side, I'd guess the athiest parents all put down their children as athiests.

Well they would hypothetically put them down as ''non religious'', which is true if they don't have a religion. Children shouldn't count towards the religious figures either way, seeing as they don't have the intellectual capacity to construct a view on theology. You never hear of a socialist child or a secular humanist child, a Christian child is equally ridiculous.

Corkfeen

RiseToTheTop wrote: »

mikemac1 wrote: »

How about this post
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=77837949&postcount=69

Arrogance just dripping off it

Disagree with the atheists and you must be stupid

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=77838001&postcount=74

And the context of the post was a person who labelled himself as a catholic even though he didn't believe in God (well agnostic) or any part of catholicism. So skewing the stats as a result... Hardly a genius?

Seachmall

RiseToTheTop wrote: »

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=77838001&postcount=74

mikemac1 wrote: »

How about this post from A+A forum
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=77837949&postcount=69

Arrogance just dripping off it

Disagree with the atheists and you must be stupid

As mentioned earlier in the thread they're in reference to people who disagree with Catholic beliefs and/or aren't practicing Catholics still selecting Catholic on the census form.

Nothing to do with Catholics, but people who believe themselves to be Catholic without actually understanding what that entails.

marty1985

A large portion of those identified as Catholics are not strictly-speaking Catholics, so I have some sympathy for atheists there. But when you start telling other people what they believe and what they are, then you have strayed into plain arrogance. People are free to identify themselves as they wish. This will remain unacceptable to a lot of atheists. It's almost as if they are a minority who insist they are the majority, which is odd. Also, it works both ways - a lot of the non-religious are not atheists. This group includes agnostics, unaffiliated and independent believers, and people who can have a strong belief in God but a strong distaste for organised religion - which will be a lot of people.

There has been a rise in non-religious, but this is dwarfed by the rise in other non-Catholic religious groups. I also have sympathy for reporters at The Journal.ie who probably had to work late yesterday brainstorming an anti-Catholic angle on the report of the results.

kincsem

Anyone got the swan census numbers? I'd love to make some daft conclusions.

Seachmall

marty1985 wrote: »

But when you start telling other people what they believe and what they are, then you have strayed into plain arrogance.

You can call yourself a chicken, that doesn't make you a chicken. It's not arrogant of me to inform you that you are not actually a chicken, and your claims of being a chicken are stupid.


There's a set of beliefs and practices that determine if you are actually Catholic but people ignore those because "Aye, I was baptised sure".



Note that very few, if any, are criticising the Muslim, Jewish or Church of Ireland numbers, it's the assumption of being Catholic without actually being Catholic that is irking us.

RiseToTheTop

Just because you don't go to Church every Sunday doesn't mean you aren't Catholic. Sure, you mightn't be the perfect Catholic, but still.

There would be people in this country who don't go to mass often, but still have a belief in Jesus.

Seachmall

RiseToTheTop wrote: »

Just because you don't go to Church every Sunday doesn't mean you aren't Catholic. Sure, you mightn't be the perfect Catholic, but still.

Do they believe in the Catholic interpretation of transubstantiation?

No?

Then they're not Catholic.


Just one of many characteristics that determine if you are Catholic.

There would be people in this country who don't go to mass often, but still have a belief in Jesus.

Which makes them Christian. I'd assume many of those who tick Catholic are indeed Christian, but not necessarily Catholic.

marty1985

Seachmall wrote: »

You can call yourself a chicken, that doesn't make you a chicken. It's not arrogant of me to inform you that you are not actually a chicken, and your claims of being a chicken are stupid.


There's a set of beliefs and practices that determine if you are actually Catholic but people ignore those because "Aye, I was baptised sure".



Note that very few, if any, are criticising the Muslim, Jewish or Church of Ireland numbers, it's the assumption of being Catholic without actually being Catholic that is irking us.

Actually, you extend it to an intellectual position. You are not saying what people "are", but what they believe. If someone chooses to affiliate themselves to a particular religious denomination, regardless of their doubts or failure to live up to that denomination's teachings - and who are you or I to say what their aspirations are - they are entitled to do so.

Stop being "irked". That's life. I am also interested in religion, but I can accept that the majority of religious people don't share my obsession. Atheists have to do the same. Most people have lives and jobs and family responsibilities that get in the way of constant dwelling on theological positions. Any attempt to tell people they are not Catholic because they use condoms or don't attend mass is pissing in the wind, and comical, and will only frustrate you.

RiseToTheTop

Seachmall wrote: »

Do they believe in the Catholic interpretation of transubstantiation?

No?

Then they're not Catholic.


Just one of many characteristics that determine if you are Catholic.

I don't know, how can I know?

Seachmall

marty1985 wrote: »

You are not saying what people "are", but what they believe.

No, I'm saying what they believe determines what they are (in a religious sense).

You can't believe Jesus is not the Son of God or Saviour and still expect people to take you seriously when you say you're a Christian.

Same rules apply to Catholicism.

Mal-Adjusted

marty1985 wrote: »

A large portion of those identified as Catholics are not strictly-speaking Catholics, so I have some sympathy for atheists there. But when you start telling other people...what they are, then you have strayed into plain arrogance.

Sorry, I know what you're saying, I just find the phrasing funny.

marty1985

Yeah I was waiting for someone to pick up on that! I was gonna qualify it better but you know what I mean.

krudler

mikemac1 wrote: »

How about this post from A+A forum
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=77837949&postcount=69

Arrogance just dripping off it

Disagree with the atheists and you must be stupid

did you read the post it was in response to? someone who ticked catholic despite not really believing in god or attending mass, ah Ireland, you so silly.

KeithAFC

Mal-Adjusted wrote: »

shouldn't you be busy bombing a pub somewhere?

Nope. Just making a point that you can't take that stat as a good example that people are learning Irish in huge numbers. I don't think that is the case.

My name is URL

KeithAFC wrote: »

Nope. Just making a point that you can't take that stat as a good example that people are learning Irish in huge numbers. I don't think that is the case.

What are you basing that on?

Most people have had at least 10 years worth of education on the language. What makes you think that huge numbers of people are not learning or do not already know it?

=/

Do you have an opinion on anything in the census that doesn't whet your sectarian appetite?

token56

The label of Catholic is largely becoming something just to identify your heritage, few people really care about what your supposed to believe as a Catholic or the Vatican etc. Similar to Judaism really in that there are quite a number of people who would identify themselves as Jewish purely because of their heritage but would not be religious in any sense.

It would be better if they just identified them self as religious or christian but it wouldn't even matter except for the fact that the figures from this census will be used by religious groups when the issue of schools comes up and their denomination. Realistically this is the only purpose of even asking this question at a practical level, at least that's the common view of it. Although personally I don't think it should have any functional value at all. The problem is if 84% of people identify themselves as Catholic, it does not automatically mean they all want their kids going to a Catholic school. However this is the inference made from this statistic with absolutely no evidence behind its validity, because the question does not ask anything about schools or what this label they have put on themselves means in a practical sense. It could very easily be cleared up by asking a couple of more questions for example What type of school would you prefer your child to attend, same denomination as your religion, multi denomination, non denomination. You actually get a proper view of what people want, not what some religious group says about the people who ticked a box asking only about religion.

Ghost Buster

Seachmall wrote: »

I think these atheists are a lot like the PC Brigade.


They seem to be everywhere yet no one can actually find one.

Perhaps if they behaved like sheep and hung about in flocks they would be easier spotted?

Ghost Buster

RiseToTheTop wrote: »

Just because you don't go to Church every Sunday doesn't mean you aren't Catholic. Sure, you mightn't be the perfect Catholic, but still.

There would be people in this country who don't go to mass often, but still have a belief in Jesus.

Excuse my arrogance but thats called "Being Christian"

Mal-Adjusted

KeithAFC wrote: »

Nope. Just making a point that you can't take that stat as a good example that people are learning Irish in huge numbers. I don't think that is the case.

So you dismiss the census findings on what? your own personal hatred of anything to do with Ireland?

KeithAFC

What are you basing that on?

Most people have had at least 10 years worth of education on the language. What makes you think that huge numbers of people are not learning or do not already know it?

=/

Do you have an opinion on anything in the census that doesn't whet your sectarian appetite?

Basing it on what a lot of people on here say about the language. The fact that the majority of the Irish Republic can't speak Irish fluently. Some one has already laughed the stat off on this forum. So I questioned it.

Tackle the ball and not the man.

So you dismiss the census findings on what? your own personal hatred of anything to do with Ireland?

I have basically said what others have said and questioned that stat. Same way many people are questioning the religious stat and trying to break it down to why exactly is to so high. What questioning the stat has to do with Ireland is beyond me.

Helix

Seachmall wrote: »

But then they'd have to define what a "practicing member" is.

"Oh, well I was baptised, had my communion and then my confirmation therefore I'm a practicing member".

then you change it to "Are you currently an active, practicing member of the religion you ticked above (if you ticked no religion, disregard)?"

im sure there'd still be more than a handful who'd screw that up too, but you'd get a much, much more accurate reflection of religiousity in ireland

Helix

RiseToTheTop wrote: »

That's cos i'm not an arrogant atheist prick who think every Christian is a dumbfounded idiot.

they believe in a magic man in the sky ffs

i think that's reason enough to doubt their clarity of thinking

Mal-Adjusted

KeithAFC wrote: »

Basing it on what a lot of people on here say about the language. The fact that the majority of the Irish Republic can't speak Irish fluently. Some one has already laughed the stat off on this forum. So I questioned it.

Tackle the ball and not the man.


I have basically said what others have said and questioned that stat. Same way many people are questioning the religious stat and trying to break it down to why exactly is to so high. What questioning the stat has to do with Ireland is beyond me.

so you're basing it on nothing? right. good to know.

krudler

they should add a la carte catholic to the options next time.

"have you attended mass on any occasion not including christmas,easter, weddings, christenings or funerals"

modern catholics= disagree with chruch, dont follow majority of teachings, still tick catholic.

KeithAFC

Mal-Adjusted wrote: »

so you're basing it on nothing? right. good to know.

So you think that stat is true? Stats can be deceiving sometimes.

Mal-Adjusted

KeithAFC wrote: »

So you think that stat is true? Stats can be deceiving sometimes.

and agree or disagree, have some evidence! it's ridiculous to dismiss them out of hand.

Peanut

Worth revisiting the dreadful wording of the "Can you speak?" question on the last census:

Can you speak Irish?
Answer if aged 3 years or over.
1 Yes
2 No

English_Household_form_with_do_not_complete_stamp__2011.pdf

That's it, no question of fluency whatsoever, and frequency of speaking doesn't necessarily answer this either.

The sad thing is that, if as I would suspect, the overall fluency levels are quite low between all people who answered "Yes" to the first question, it might force a rethink on policy and in the long-term, be beneficial to people's interest in the language.

RiseToTheTop

Helix wrote: »

they believe in a magic man in the sky ffs

i think that's reason enough to doubt their clarity of thinking

Can you please quote the Bible verse which states God "is a magic man in the sky."

Please don't reply on The Simpsons for your view of what Christians supposedly view God as.

RiseToTheTop

Ghost Buster wrote: »

[/B]

Excuse my arrogance but thats called "Being Christian"

It can applied to being Catholic too.

I could have been more specific in saying "Our Father, The Son and The Holy Ghost". But I feel that Catholic got what I said.

Of course you could say Christian, but we are talking about Roman Catholic, which believing in Jesus applies to as well.

Helix

RiseToTheTop wrote: »

Can you please quote the Bible verse which states God "is a magic man in the sky."

Please don't reply on The Simpsons for your view of what Christians supposedly view God as.

oh that's essentially what it boils down to for most people and you know it

an all powerful magical being who can do whatever he wants, knows everything and controls all - yet who, bizarrely, seems to need the validation of his creations on a daily basis to tell him how great he is

RiseToTheTop

Helix wrote: »

oh that's essentially what it boils down to for most people and you know it

an all powerful magical being who can do whatever he wants, knows everything and controls all - yet who, bizarrely, seems to need the validation of his creations on a daily basis to tell him how great he is

You could say the same for science. With the big bang "everything just popped into existence". Isn't it something that our planet is the only planet that is capable of life?

BTW i'm not talking about mere bacteria, i'm talking about what is coloquially refererred to as life.