Are lap dancing clubs about exploiting men and their credit cards ?

hondasam

thecommietommy wrote: »

I was watching some American chat show and they were discussing lap dancing clubs etc. The usual man haters were condemninng them and said they were about exploiting women etc. To which one of the babes replied " Lap dancing clubs aren't about exploiting women, their about expoliting men and their credit cards " !!!!! To which she got a laugh and a round of applause from the audience

So, women in particuliar, would you agree with her statement ??

No not really. No one is being exploited if they are all there by free choice. If men are happy to pay and women are happy to get paid then it's free choice.

hatrickpatrick

*sigh*

Unless there's coercion involved on some end, it is "exploiting" NO ONE.

I genuinely don't understand why the term "exploitation" has expanded to cover consensual acts. Obviously someone is being exploited if they're underaged or mentally incapacitated to make decisions, or in a situation such as Foxconn in China which is structured so as to make it extremely difficult to leave the plant and where there are very few union protections.

But you can't apply the word "exploitation" to just anything you personally don't approve of, something you personally wouldn't want to do, and which you're so closed minded and naive that it makes you feel better to assume people are being "exploited" than to accept the possibility that not everyone holds the same values as you do.

I'd say the vast majority of the people who call "exploitation" on things like this are the latter.

Bit like how people called 'exploitation' on Pete Bennett (Tourette's sufferer on Big Brother a few years ago) when he had a great time in the house and loved the publicity, and said as much.

thecommietommy

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

But men would have an opinion on that too. It isn't gender specific to have an opinion on it.

Where did I say men couldn't have an opinion on the OP ?

thecommietommy

token101 wrote: »

Lap dancing clubs are totally sh*t. The worst type of anti climax. You wouldn't turn up to a bakery, have the baker shove some really nice cakes in your face and then hear him say, 'Don't actually eat that whatever you do'.

Well you can go to watch a football match and not play, but still enjoy the game

Sykk

LordChessington wrote: »

Last year, I was in Poland for a lads weekend. We got pretty drunk the first night and after looking at the city map we got in the hostel, decided to go to a strip club.

While sitting at our table, a stripper asked if I wanted a lap dance for 100 zlote (bout €24). A combination of me being hammered and being egged on by my mates decided 'sure, why not'. She took the money and told me to wait a few minutes, so I promptly forgot about it. Anyway, another stripper asked me if I wanted a lap dance and thinking it was the same one, I said OK! Anyway, she took me to the bar and asked me to pay. I initially refused cos I had already paid, but she insisted on me paying. I thought "Goddman polish strippers, ripping me off", but it was my first (and possibly only) time in a strip club and I was determined to get a lap dance, so I paid the money.

Anyway, the stripper led me to the back where the private dance rooms were where the first stripper was waiting. The two looked at each other, looked at me and started talking in polish. They asked if I had paid them both, talked more polish and then asked me "If you want, we can both give you a dance at the same time. We will be kissing and stuff". I rubbed my hands with glee and said "ok!", and got my double lap dance.

Long story short: Polish strip club exploited me and gave me 2 strippers for the price of 2.

Have a semi in work now.. Cheers

thecommietommy

slavetothegrind wrote: »

there was a fella a few years back brought a case against a dublin club for relieving him of 20 grand from his visa card one night.

He lost when the club showed the cctv footage of him ossified and authorising each transaction at the correct timestamp.

fools and their money alright....

still.....BOOBIES! :P

boo to fake boobies :mad:

I remember that, he was a yuppy who brought some of the guys who worked in his web development company out on the town with his company visa card. He lost the case, judge told him that was his fault to get so stupidified and for the the transaction

Logical Fallacy

FoxT wrote: »

There seem to be a lot of assumptions in this thread about women choosing to work as strippers etc., as if it was a career move, like, say, plumbing, or accountancy.

I find it hard to believe that many people would choose freely to work as a stripper/lapdancer/etc...I expect that if they had other options, they would take them .

I've been a doorman at a Strip club , I would say the vast majority of the girls i spoke to in my time there were doing it because the money was very good. A popular girl in a club will make a lot of money in one night, probably a lot more than she could make in most other jobs.

That said, working there was the most depressing period of my life, you basically learn to hate people when you do that job. It's ironic that for a while i was the one trapped there with no other options for work at the time as i badly needed the cash, most of the girls could leave whenever they wanted to.

thecommietommy

Logical Fallacy wrote: »

I've been a doorman at a Strip club , I would say the vast majority of the girls i spoke to in my time there were doing it because the money was very good. A popular girl in a club will make a lot of money in one night, probably a lot more than she could make in most other jobs.

That said, working there was the most depressing period of my life, you basically learn to hate people when you do that job. It's ironic that for a while i was the one trapped there with no other options for work at the time as i badly needed the cash, most of the girls could leave whenever they wanted to.

Not trying to put you down, but were you paid any more for the night's work than a bouncer on a nightclub ?

( BTW, if you think that's depressing, try doing secutity on the drug centre on Pearse St where the druggies come for their daily methodone fix and needle exchange )

thecommietommy

FoxT wrote: »

There seem to be a lot of assumptions in this thread about women choosing to work as strippers etc., as if it was a career move, like, say, plumbing, or accountancy.

I find it hard to believe that many people would choose freely to work as a stripper/lapdancer/etc...I expect that if they had other options, they would take them .

Interesting viewpoint, are you a guy or a gal ?

AngryBollix

Men will pay to see arse fanny and tits.

Thats the whole point isnt it?

Surely everyone is happy.

Women get paid and blokes get an eyeful

Big Nasty

Logical Fallacy wrote: »

I've been a doorman at a Strip club , I would say the vast majority of the girls i spoke to in my time there were doing it because the money was very good. A popular girl in a club will make a lot of money in one night, probably a lot more than she could make in most other jobs.

That said, working there was the most depressing period of my life, you basically learn to hate people when you do that job. It's ironic that for a while i was the one trapped there with no other options for work at the time as i badly needed the cash, most of the girls could leave whenever they wanted to.

I worked in pubs for many a year and had more than one relationship with female staff members. You?

its not exploiting women she is using her assets in return for money pretending to be turned on or whatever so the person buying the experience gets something out of it ?

I would rather have someone show themselves to me of their free will and want to . I also think i couldnt do that job as i would be giving something up which once gone would hardened me towards men , all the girls i know who work or have worked in these places have a very low opinion of men

JohnMarston

AngryBollix wrote: »

Men will pay to see arse fanny and tits.

Thats the whole point isnt it?

Surely everyone is happy.

Women get paid and blokes get an eyeful

Paying for an internet connection is cheaper, and you get the same thing.

AngryBollix

Davian Quick Schoolmaster wrote: »

its not exploiting women she is using her assets in return for money pretending to be turned on or whatever so the person buying the experience gets something out of it ?

I would rather have someone show themselves to me of their free will and want to . I also think i couldnt do that job as i would be giving something up which once gone would hardened me towards men , all the girls i know who work or have worked in these places have a very low opinion of men

I wouldnt blame any girl for an opinion like that, isnt it something of a double edged sword though?

AngryBollix

JohnMarston wrote: »

Paying for an internet connection is cheaper, and you get the same thing.

I wouldnt frequent these clubs but I can see why other people do.

Dravokivich

JohnMarston wrote: »

Paying for an internet connection is cheaper, and you get the same thing.

No you don't, there's a difference between downloading a song of someone singing and going to see someone perform live.

:pac:

Some of them that at the time could be naive. There have been people who worked in the sex industry who thought it was fine for them at the time, who looked back at it over a few years and decided they hated it. Doesn't make it exploitive in anyway though. The way I see it, They are making themselves available. As long as the stripper isn't forced into the work, I don't think there is any exploitation really.

But the prices in a few clubs around Dublin I've been to I think were quite excessive. Went to club in Chicago once and was suprised at the rates the dancers were charging. I was even given a T-Shirt. :cool:

44leto

I hate lap dancing clubs they are expensive and I just don't get the kink, like a good looking girl dances naked in front of you then off she goes leaving you with a frustrated stiffy.

The last stag I was at in Liverpool I just said no I am not going I will wait here. Anyway while they spent their money on virtually nothing I met someone in that bar and clicked. None of them clicked a stripper.

AngryBollix

AngryBollix wrote: »

I wouldnt blame any girl for an opinion like that, isnt it something of a double edged sword though?

yup agreed i dont think anyone wins tbh . the guys cant touch the girls ( well in theory ) but the stuff said to them is just :eek: .

tigger123

blatantrereg wrote: »

It's a transaction. Open to exploitation on either side, like most transactions are.

Not my cup of tea - but I did rent out Catwoman once, so I'm not in a position to judge.

Catwoman?! You're a vile vile human being ...

tigger123

FoxT wrote: »

There seem to be a lot of assumptions in this thread about women choosing to work as strippers etc., as if it was a career move, like, say, plumbing, or accountancy.

I find it hard to believe that many people would choose freely to work as a stripper/lapdancer/etc...I expect that if they had other options, they would take them .

You seem to be implying that the women are coerced into working there ... ?

Logical Fallacy

thecommietommy wrote: »

Not trying to put you down, but were you paid any more for the night's work than a bouncer on a nightclub ?

( BTW, if you think that's depressing, try doing secutity on the drug centre on Pearse St where the druggies come for their daily methodone fix and needle exchange )

Yes I was. I was working to pay for college so i was taking the highest paying door i could get which was a (at the time) one of the strip clubs.

I worked in pubs for many a year and had more than one relationship with female staff members. You?

In other clubs/pubs i went out with some of the staff, in the strip club i avoided it. It's a completely different deal to working in a pub or club i found, my top concern was the safety and well being of the girls...oddly enough they don't seem to buy that if you are trying to nail them.

deandean

Naah, I reckon the lapdance clubs just have a P.R. problem.

The lapdance Clubs should hire the same P.R. head as yer teflon-coated man from Greyhound Waste:

• We are a Solutions Provider
• We provide resources to meet the varied needs of our clients
• Our business model necessitates upfront payment to ensure operational efficiency
• Non-payment can result in denial of service

messymess

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

Why women in particular?

Because that's what HE asked !

markus pride

Who do people go to strip clubs when real pussy of the do-whatever-you-want variety is usually going on the cheap through escorting sites? It bewilders me at times..

Big Nasty

markus pride wrote: »

Who do people go to strip clubs when real pussy of the do-whatever-you-want variety is usually going on the cheap through escorting sites? It bewilders me at times..

Because it's legal?

FoxT

Originally Posted by FoxT

I find it hard to believe that many people would choose freely to work as a stripper/lapdancer/etc...I expect that if they had other options, they would take them .

blatantrereg wrote: »

Some people are exhibitionists. Nobody gets all upset at the supposed victimhood of male strippers do they? So consider who is being sexist here.

My statement above is equally applicable to male or female.....not sure what your point is.

tigger123 wrote: »

You seem to be implying that the women are coerced into working there ... ?

I did not intend to imply that. Some may be, I have no way of knowing.

mconigol

token101 wrote: »

Well I wouldn't. I want my cake and I want to f***ing eat it. Otherwise what the f*** is the point having cake? Legalise brothels, tax the sh*t out of hookers and watch the recession drain away like a jonny down the bowl.

LordChessington wrote: »

Last year, I was in Poland for a lads weekend. We got pretty drunk the first night and after looking at the city map we got in the hostel, decided to go to a strip club.

While sitting at our table, a stripper asked if I wanted a lap dance for 100 zlote (bout €24). A combination of me being hammered and being egged on by my mates decided 'sure, why not'. She took the money and told me to wait a few minutes, so I promptly forgot about it. Anyway, another stripper asked me if I wanted a lap dance and thinking it was the same one, I said OK! Anyway, she took me to the bar and asked me to pay. I initially refused cos I had already paid, but she insisted on me paying. I thought "Goddman polish strippers, ripping me off", but it was my first (and possibly only) time in a strip club and I was determined to get a lap dance, so I paid the money.

Anyway, the stripper led me to the back where the private dance rooms were where the first stripper was waiting. The two looked at each other, looked at me and started talking in polish. They asked if I had paid them both, talked more polish and then asked me "If you want, we can both give you a dance at the same time. We will be kissing and stuff". I rubbed my hands with glee and said "ok!", and got my double lap dance.

Long story short: Polish strip club exploited me and gave me 2 strippers for the price of 2.

The bastards!

Why are there no male lap dancing clubs?

Logical Fallacy

Deleted User wrote: »

Why are there no male lap dancing clubs?

Because no enterprising person has set on up yet.

44leto

Deleted User wrote: »

Why are there no male lap dancing clubs?

There are none in Dublin that I know about but I have seen them in Amsterdam.

Mr.Biscuits

stovelid wrote: »

That was a crazed manifesto written by a single women that went on to shoot somebody and was jailed.

Eh, Valerie Solanas shot Andy Warhol (not just 'somebody') and has being hailed as igniting what became of the separatist feminist movement. It is also well accepted that SCUM triggered a wave of radical feminist publications in it's aftermath which drew on the man-hating vibe that she stirred up. To dismiss her as nothing but a crazed nobody is about as far away from the truth as you can get. This woman is celebrated to this day and has had many plays, documentaries, musicals and even movies made about her.

stovelid wrote: »

What's the point here?

The point (an obvious one): is that the stereotype of most feminists being 'man hating lesbians' was not just plucked from the air by the user. It is in fact a well known one (and some would say: a well earned one) which quite clearly came about because of the words and actions of the more vocal members of the separatist feminist movement in the 1960's, 70's and 80's, much of which were in fact lesbians. Which was hardly a secret to be fair, being that at the time they declared themselves as such.

I of course can understand people wishing that stereotype was forevermore quashed but when a stereotype has an element of truth to it, no matter how small, that the dampening of it's flames will never be so easy to put out.

Some quotes from a few man hating lesbian Feminists:

“To call a man an animal is to flatter him; he’s a machine, a walking dildo.” -– Valerie Solanas

“I feel that ‘man-hating’ is an honorable and viable political act.” – Robin Morgan

“Rape is nothing more or less than a conscious process of intimidation by which all men can keep women in a state of fear” — Susan Brownmiller

“In a patriarchal society, all heterosexual intercourse is rape because women, as a group, are not strong enough to give meaningful consent.” — Catherine MacKinnon

“The proportion of men must be reduced to and maintained at approximately 10% of the human race.” — Sally Miller Gearhart

“I want to see a man beaten to a bloody pulp with a high-heel shoved in his mouth, like an apple in the mouth of a pig.” — Andrea Dworkin

It's hard enough in this world to quash the stereotypes that have no truth to them but to try and quash a stereotype that has - well, that's just being naively idealistic (not to mention unfair to those that have formed their opinions based on facts). The dog has run and feminists will always be seen by some as being mostly man hating lesbians (unfortunate as that may be) for the simple reason that in our most recent times, the most vocal and influential among their creed were just that - man hating lesbians. So again, well not agreeing with the user, I can fully understand why he expressed the opinion that he did, as lets face it, it is not entirely without foundation now is it.

Dudess

"Most" feminists are not like that - at all. Do you know any? There is no justification in people claiming it. Anyone with an open mind (and no bitterness due to experiences they've had with women) will agree most feminists are just normal, reasonable people. That said, I think it's flawed to be a feminist - I'd prefer just to concentrate on human rights, no matter what gender; but sometimes people's genders (male or female) are what are used against them; that is what moderate feminists focus on. Yes, just in relation to women - so men should form a men's movement.

dark crystal

Deleted User wrote: »

Why are there no male lap dancing clubs?

Probably for the same reason there's not really a demand for male prostitutes (from women).

Personally, the thought of paying for the 'privilege' of watching some oily guy pretending to be attracted to me, while shoving his todger in my face doesn't appeal!

hondasam

I think most feminists want equality for both male and female.

hatrickpatrick

FoxT wrote: »

There seem to be a lot of assumptions in this thread about women choosing to work as strippers etc., as if it was a career move, like, say, plumbing, or accountancy.

I find it hard to believe that many people would choose freely to work as a stripper/lapdancer/etc...I expect that if they had other options, they would take them .

Not this argument again. There's a difference between coercion and circumstantial necessity.
I'm sure the guy who cleans the toilets at McDonalds would prefer to be doing something more fulfilling, are McDonalds "exploiting" him for hiring someone they know just wants the cash?

It's not exploitation, whatever it is. Exploitation is a completely different thing, and throwing the word around like that devalues what actual exploitation really is.

Mr.Biscuits

Mr.Biscuits wrote: »

Some quotes from a few man hating lesbian Feminists:

Trawling through AH would give us some choice quotes from a few woman-hating bitter men. We don't go around assuming all men are woman-hating and bitter as a result.

Mr.Biscuits

Dudess wrote: »

"Most" feminists are not like that - at all. Do you know any?

You have to be taking the proverbial piss.

I made it quite clear, twice in fact - that I DO NOT believe that most feminists are man-hating lesbians:

Mr.Biscuits wrote: »

The user is undoubtedly wrong in his contention [..]

Mr.Biscuits wrote: »

So again, while not agreeing with the user [..]

Dudess wrote: »

There is no justification in people claiming it.

Justifiable? Perhaps not - but quite understandable nonetheless as many feminists with a lot of power within the separatist and radical feminist movement were lesbians and regularly expressed quite obvious man-hating views.

bluewolf wrote: »

Trawling through AH would give us some choice quotes from a few woman-hating bitter men. We don't go around assuming all men are woman-hating and bitter as a result.

That would be a good point had someone claimed *most* women were xy or z based on some posts that they had read on the internet - but they didn't. I have no way of knowing how that user arrived at his contention regarding most feminists but I hazard a guess that it had more to do with the feminists that he has been exposed to in his lifetime, both in his personal life and (more likely) through the mainstream media.

Again, I feel the views were incorrect based on the use of the word *most* but quite understandable because of the reasons set out in my last post. I would feel the very same had a user stated that they felt most FF TDs were corrupt as it too would be a quite understandable position to take based the bad apples that we now know about. Feminism is no different and based on the man hating lesbians that were at it's helm for many many years, the suggestion that most feminists are the same as them, should really not be all that surprising, now should it.

Now, if you are going to reply to this post and ask me more pointless questions based on views I don't hold - then I suggest you don't, as I really couldn't be tarsed defending a position I haven't taken quite frankly. Just reread what I've wrote and get back to me based on that instead.

Go raibh maith agat.

You pointed out some quotes, I pointed out the possibility of some quotes. Whether they're on the internet or not makes no difference.

I have no way of knowing how that user arrived at his contention regarding most feminists but I hazard a guess that it had more to do with the feminists that he has been exposed to in his lifetime, both in his personal life and (more likely) through the mainstream media.

Such as the internet, one supposes.
Except that doesn't count when it's the other way around, right?

You're talking out your backside at this stage, and so was that banned person.

stovelid

Mr.Biscuits wrote: »

Eh, Valerie Solanas shot Andy Warhol (not just 'somebody')
.

Thanks for pointing that out to me.

And I think you are wildly overestimating the effect that SCUM had in wider culture.

spacecookie555

Haha I think its so sad that men have to go out and PAY to see a naked lady or fool around with one. Haha grow a pair and get yourself an actual tangible woman that you can get your jollies with instead of sitting in a dark dingy room getting turned on with a loada other men... C*ckfest much??? Hahaha

token101

Deleted User wrote: »

Why are there no male lap dancing clubs?

There are. Those Chippendale gangs are the same thing sure.