Woman screams at judge.

Bullseye1

Instead of taking responsibility for her failure as a mother she screams at the judge for sending her son down for 6 years as ring leader of a group of burglars who held man at knifepoint and threatened to rape his girlfriend.

He had 26 previous convictions.

Says it all really.


http://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/mother-screams-at-judge-for-sentence-handed-down-to-son-545487.html

benway

The woman had earlier being described as an alcoholic whose son was taken into care after his father died in 2007.

Ever occur to you that someone like that mightn't be thinking straight?

Owen_S

The part about his 26 previous convictions is probably worth mentioning in the OP.

Rented Mule

The mother of a juvenile sentenced to six years for a violent burglary screamed at a judge that he had earlier handed down a lighter sentence to a child abuser

Read more: http://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/mother-screams-at-judge-for-sentence-handed-down-to-son-545487.html#ixzz1qXcuMDyr

First paragraph of the article.

Celly Smunt

i think the real question we all want to know without reading is,is she a single mother?

token101

benway wrote: »

Ever occur to you that someone like that mightn't be thinking straight?

Why is that valid? Is alcoholism an excuse now? If not, why even allude to it?

RachaelVO

pmcmahon wrote: »

i think the real question we all want to know without reading is,is she a single mother?

That and is she an immigrant?
Traveller?
Dole Scrounger?

What else can we blame it on?

benway

Someone who's either locked or in the grips of DTs will be more prone to ranting at the judge rather than facing up to reality, don't you think. Thread is about her screaming, think it's pretty relevant myself.

Plus, if the son's been in care, I'm not surprised that he's ended up with 26 convictions - the child care system in this country is nothing short of a disgrace.

Pace2008

RachaelVO wrote: »

That and is she an immigrant?
Traveller?
Dole Scrounger?

What else can we blame it on?

All I wanna know is what box she ticked in the "religion" section of the census form.

Celly Smunt

RachaelVO wrote: »

That and is she an immigrant?
Traveller?
Dole Scrounger?

What else can we blame it on?

i blame black taxi drivers aswell.

markus pride

pmcmahon wrote: »

i think the real question we all want to know without reading is,is she a single mother?

If that's even questionable to you, the real question is what happened to your brain?

token101

benway wrote: »

Someone who's either locked or in the grips of DTs will be more prone to ranting at the judge rather than facing up to reality, don't you think. Thread is about her screaming, think it's pretty relevant myself.

Plus, if the son's been in care, I'm not surprised that he's ended up with 26 convictions - the child care system in this country is nothing short of a disgrace.

The DTs, the childcare being bad. At what point does any of this become about personal responsibility and stop becoming a litany of excuses?

Edit: I'd actually take issue with that last bit. We have some excellent foster families in this country. I know of two who have changed people around who have come from dregs like this. They were the solution, not the problem, and I'd doubt they are the only ones.

benway

Just addressing the reality of the situation.

If you want to rant about what terrible people they are, and how much better you are than them, then feel free.

Celly Smunt

markus pride wrote: »

If that's even questionable to you, the real question is what happened to your brain?

this.

Bullseye1

benway wrote: »

Just addressing the reality of the situation.

If you want to rant about what terrible people they are, and how much better you are than them, then feel free.

Or we could simply make every excuse under the sun for these people. What about the victims?

hondasam

Bullseye1 wrote: »

Instead of taking responsibility for her failure as a mother she screams at the judge for sending her son down for 6 years as ring leader of a group of burglars who held man at knifepoint and threatened to rape his girlfriend.

He had 26 previous convictions.

Says it all really.

What does it say?
She is a bad mother, he is a bad son. Hardly the first time it has happened. Life has probably dealt them both a crap deal.

benway

token101 wrote: »

Edit: I'd actually take issue with that last bit. We have some excellent foster families in this country. I know of two who have changed people around who have come from dregs like this. They were the solution, not the problem, and I'd doubt they are the only ones.

No doubt, most foster families and social workers do great work. But I've seen plenty of the HSE system, and I would beg to differ, overall, particularly when it comes to the residential centres and the likes of Oberstown.

The HSE really fck some of these kids around, for some that I've met, it's definitely made things worse.

Bullseye1 wrote: »

What about the victims?

Here we go. How does anything I've said relate to them? It's not a zero sum game, recognising the circumstances of the perpetrator doesn't preclude me from recognising the suffering of the victim.

AH "Scumbag" Bashing™ isn't going to help anyone.

Eru

benway wrote: »

No doubt, most foster families and social workers do great work. But I've seen plenty of the HSE system, and I would beg to differ, overall, particularly when it comes to the residential centres and the likes of Oberstown.

The HSE really fck some of these kids around, for some that I've met, it's definitely made things worse.

How many of those kids absolutely piss all over the workers and assistance offered? Oberstown is for juveniles who have committed a lot of crime. Those crimes involved victims, who speaks for them?

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

benway wrote: »

Ever occur to you that someone like that mightn't be thinking straight?

Either she was, or she shouldn't have started drinking before going to court.

benway

Eru wrote: »

Those crimes involved victims, who speaks for them?

What, you?

Denying the serious issues a lot of criminals have is striking a blow for the victims, right?

And what, sending the perpetrators to institutions and through a system that tends to make them worse is going to help anyone?

These are some damaged, damaged kids we're talking about. To be fair, I'm not sure there's anything that can be done to help some of them, but the current system is worse than nothing.

Bullseye1

benway wrote: »

Here we go. How does anything I've said relate to them? It's not a zero sum game, recognising the circumstances of the perpetrator doesn't preclude me from recognising the suffering of the victim.

AH "Scumbag" Bashing™ isn't going to help anyone.

Where have I used the word or bashed the woman. I simply stated instead of takin responsibility she is in contempt of court and even shouted "we will spend the summer together son"

There is simply no reason or excuse for doing why he did and she obviously sees no wrong either.

sdanseo

The examiner really need to pay the person who proof-reads things more money. Multiple grammatical and spelling errors.

benway

Bullseye1 wrote: »

There is simply no reason or excuse for doing why he did and she obviously sees no wrong either.

Not you in particular, it's just an AH staple these days to go through 20 pages of mindless "I fckin' hate scumbags" nonsense on any criminal justice thread.

Jesus H fckin Christ, who is saying that robbery at knife point is excusable? The point is that we don't want him doing it again, and all the "personal responsibility" sermonising in the world isn't going to help with that.

Prisons, and the child care system, should be about trying to fix people, not making them worse.

hondasam

Bullseye1 wrote: »

There is simply no reason or excuse for doing why he did and she obviously sees no wrong either.

Why do you thinks she sees no wrong in what he did? Have you any idea of their circumstances or why he is the way he is or why she is the way she is?
It's best not to judge them to harshly without knowing the facts.

laoch na mona

society creates these problems we are all responsible

DonJose

F**k the scumbag and the cavity he was pulled from (she doesn't deserve the title mother), the part of that story that hit me hardest was the following, "In a victim impact statement he said his relationship broke up after the attack and he quit his college studies. He said he felt he should have been able to protect his girlfriend better."

I wish the victims the best of luck with their lives, so sad they seperated!!!

RachaelVO

laoch na mona wrote: »

society creates these problems we are all responsible

OH PULEASE!

That's just bollox, absolute bollox!

Chain_reaction

Nature vs Nurture?

laoch na mona

DonJose wrote: »

F**k the scumbag !

Fu*k the keyboard warrior

Dudess

laoch na mona wrote: »

society creates these problems we are all responsible

We are not all responsible.

wp_rathead

benway wrote:

AH "Scumbag" Bashing™ isn't going to help anyone.

is how they roll round these parts

amacachi

benway wrote: »

No doubt, most foster families and social workers do great work. But I've seen plenty of the HSE system, and I would beg to differ, overall, particularly when it comes to the residential centres and the likes of Oberstown.

The HSE really fck some of these kids around, for some that I've met, it's definitely made things worse.



Here we go. How does anything I've said relate to them? It's not a zero sum game, recognising the circumstances of the perpetrator doesn't preclude me from recognising the suffering of the victim.

AH "Scumbag" Bashing™ isn't going to help anyone.

My dad was a taxi driver in a company that had the contract for the local HSE and he said nothing annoyed him more than what he saw through it. An extended family member has started fostering as well and it's disgraceful how aspects of the service is run. One of those things where ya know that at least half a dozen people have left something go.


Anyway, as was said, she was screaming at the judge that he gave a kiddy-filddler a shorter sentence. Perhaps she was right in whatever she was saying.

laoch na mona

RachaelVO wrote: »

OH PULEASE!

That's just bollox, absolute bollox!

how so your surroundings and your peers shape who you are
in my area only a few go to college and its not because their not smart enough
its just not the norm.
Irish society is sick and everyone just looks away "shur their only scumbags why should we care"

Bullseye1

benway wrote: »

Prisons, and the child care system, should be about trying to fix people, not making them worse.

Prison is the suitable punishment in this case. Once he has done his time he should then have mandatory rehabilition. But Some people are beyond fixing. He had 26 previous convictions. He has had more than enough second chances to get his act together.

Chain_reaction

laoch na mona wrote: »

how so your surroundings and your peers shape who you are
in my area only a few go to college and its not because their not smart enough
its just not the norm.
Irish society is sick and everyone just looks away "shur their only scumbags why should we care"

I'm fairly left wing in my thinking. But when your friend gets glassed or you get mugged walking along the street its hard to have sympathy.

A lot of people have ****ty childhoods, mental health problems etc but they don't go around ruining other peoples lives.

gozunda

laoch na mona wrote: »

society creates these problems we are all responsible

Bit of an all encompasing statement there...where does personal choice arise then?

Ehhh sorry your honour - I was a bad boy so I was, but twas society made me do it, honest guv
....I will be a good boy next time if society trests me nicer!

yeah right.....:rolleyes:

Bullseye1

hondasam wrote: »

Why do you thinks she sees no wrong in what he did? Have you any idea of their circumstances or why he is the way he is or why she is the way she is?
It's best not to judge them to harshly without knowing the facts.

Did you actually read the article? She has contempt for the courts and stated "we will spend the summer together son".

RachaelVO

laoch na mona wrote: »

how so your surroundings and your peers shape who you are
in my area only a few go to college and its not because their not smart enough
its just not the norm.
Irish society is sick and everyone just looks away "shur their only scumbags why should we care"

What a loada horshit

I grew up on a council estate, and the majority of the people (at a guess about 98%) of the people who lived there were decent hard working families. There were a handful of scumbags. The majority of the kids I grew up with did either some form of third level education or got an apprenticeship.

Now the few families who were nothing but trouble were a giant sized pain in the hole for everyone else! So using where you're from is a bollox excuse. You know right from wrong, you go attacking someone just cos they might have 20euro in their wallet and you don't is wrong, and clearly they know that!

This bleeding heart stuff is the ruination of justice and prevents the gardai doing anything to protect anyone who is a law abiding citizen!

FruitLover

benway wrote: »

Plus, if the son's been in care, I'm not surprised that he's ended up with 26 convictions - the child care system in this country is nothing short of a disgrace.

You don't have to be raised in a good environment to know that holding a knife to someone's throat and threatening to rape their girlfriend is wrong.

Apologists like you and laoch na mona are the reason scumbags like this with 26 convictions are able to walk free and commit their 27th crime.

Nodin

token101 wrote: »

Why is that valid? Is alcoholism an excuse now? If not, why even allude to it?

.....well, if she was a heavy drinker while pregnant, there's a good chance yer man ended up with foetal alcohol syndrome. 60% of persons so afflicted end up constrantly in trouble with the law.

hondasam

Bullseye1 wrote: »

Did you actually read the article? She has contempt for the courts and stated "we will spend the summer together son".

I did read it. It's hardly news worthy, it happens every day, the courts are over crowded with the same thing all day.
She was wrong, her son was wrong, tomorrow it will be some other ones son.I don't think it's societies fault but some people get dealt a raw deal.

amacachi

RachaelVO wrote: »

I grew up on a council estate, and the majority of the people (at a guess about 98%) of the people who lived there were decent hard working families. There were a handful of scumbags. The majority of the kids I grew up with did either some form of third level education or got an apprenticeship.

I'd love to see the stats showing that there's a lower rate of unemployment among those in council estates than elsewhere :pac:

benway

Bullseye1 wrote: »

Prison is the suitable punishment in this case. Once he has done his time he should then have mandatory rehabilition. But Some people are beyond fixing. He had 26 previous convictions. He has had more than enough second chances to get his act together.

Nobody's saying that he doesn't deserve prison. But locking people up and throwing away the key isn't the solution either. From where I see it, all the hot air about "personal responsibility" is a cop out from addressing a much more complicated reality.

Rehabilitation is pretty much non-existent in the Irish system, certainly in the prisons, and the probation service is more about assessing and monitoring than trying to set offenders straight.

laoch na mona wrote: »

how so your surroundings and your peers shape who you are
in my area only a few go to college and its not because their not smart enough
its just not the norm.
Irish society is sick and everyone just looks away "shur their only scumbags why should we care"

Wouldn't go so far as to say that responsibility lies with society in general exactly, everyone bears ultimate responsibility for their own actions, but that's pretty much on the money.

Chain_reaction

Nodin wrote: »

.....well, if she was a heavy drinker while pregnant, there's a good chance yer man ended up with foetal alcohol syndrome. 60% of persons so afflicted end up constrantly in trouble with the law.

I will admit this is true.

Theres a good few write ups about well to do folk adopting children only to have their hearts broken on a daily basis by their childs actions even though these children had every opportunity available to them.

It all comes down to a question of ethics...

The only way to prevent issues like this arising is to prevent the child being born in the first place and you're getting into fierce dark territory at that point.

How does one prevent alcoholism before it starts if a person has an addictive personality?

But as I said earlier. Friends face glass bottle, unprovoked.

Bullseye1

hondasam wrote: »

I did read it. It's hardly news worthy, it happens every day, the courts are over crowded with the same thing all day.
She was wrong, her son was wrong, tomorrow it will be some other ones son.I don't think it's societies fault but some people get dealt a raw deal.

Yeah the civil engineering student and his girlfriend.

laoch na mona

RachaelVO wrote: »

What a loada horshit

I grew up on a council estate, and the majority of the people (at a guess about 98%) of the people who lived there were decent hard working families. There were a handful of scumbags. The majority of the kids I grew up with did either some form of third level education or got an apprenticeship.

Now the few families who were nothing but trouble were a giant sized pain in the hole for everyone else! So using where you're from is a bollox excuse. You know right from wrong, you go attacking someone just cos they mighthttp://b-static.net/vbulletin/images/smilies/mad.gif have 20euro in their wallet and you don't is wrong, and clearly they know that!

This bleeding heart stuff is the ruination of justice and prevents the gardai doing anything to protect anyone who is a law abiding citizen!

I'm not trying to excuse what he did. I was just making a point crime is caused by social or family conditions of course peoples own choice comes in but many don't really get a choice

RachaelVO

amacachi wrote: »

I'd love to see the stats showing that there's a lower rate of unemployment among those in council estates than elsewhere :pac:

There probably is a high level of unemployment in council estates, but not everyone who lives in a council house isn't working, especially considering in the boom alot of them were sold so technically they're not council houses.

But given the nature of the thread, I don't think you can equate being unemployed with being a criminal!

gozunda

laoch na mona wrote: »

I'm not trying to excuse what he did. I was just making a point crime is caused by social or family conditions of course peoples own choice comes in but many don't really get a choice

Everyone gets the choice to choose to commit crime or otherwise however SOME decide that crime is the preferred option...

hondasam

Bullseye1 wrote: »

Yeah the civil engineering student and his girlfriend.

I can only imagine it was a terrifying ordeal for both of them, naturally my sympathies are for the victim.
I'm not excusing the lads behaviour, just saying he knows no better, we can only hope prison teaches him a lesson.

Dudess

laoch na mona wrote: »

how so your surroundings and your peers shape who you are

To an extent - but that still doesn't mean we are all responsible. If you actually thought about that cliche (which basically means "blame everyone else, even those who haven't the slightest degree of accountability) you'd see it applies to you also. Are you happy with being blamed for something you didn't do?

in my area only a few go to college and its not because their not smart enough
its just not the norm.
Irish society is sick and everyone just looks away "shur their only scumbags why should we care"

Irish society is sick? It's not without its flaws but it's hardly sick - perhaps compare it with other societies around the world. And no, "everyone" does not just look away - do you? What are you doing about it? What do you expect others to do? I agree there are less opportunities for the poor and disenfranchised, and I despise greed and social inequality as a fact of life - the way it is in America - but there are supports for marginalised people. As there should be - a helping hand is only right and fair for those who can't manage without it, but they need to accept the olive branch too. And I'm damned if I'm going to be held responsible for people having sh1t lives.

Bullseye1

laoch na mona wrote: »

I'm not trying to excuse what he did. I was just making a point crime is caused by social or family conditions of course peoples own choice comes in but many don't really get a choice

Everyone gets a choice and thankfully most decide not to do crime and violence.