ICPSA AGM

raymo19

Everybody knows that the Courtlough Club and Grounds had nothing to do with the reformation of that club. That club was reformed for one reason only and it certainly wasn't for participation in shooting sports. kemen there was considerable support for change in Connaught, Munster and Ulster. The puppett keep banging on about Leinster trying to take over the fact of the matter is the largest concentration of shooters are in meath/Dublin and wexford. leinster cannot be blamed for that. If change was to happen the likely hood is that it will come from leinster. The 40% rule probably was a great idea at the time however if it did not exist there would have a devastating blow inflicted on the puppett. No matter how one looks at the voting system the bottom line is 70% in the member clubs/members wanted change and this did not happen. The unfavourable minority is now dictating to the majority of the Organisation. Outcome = division and discontent within the organisation. The only way forward within the organisation is change followed by healing and a realisation that the current mess never let occur again. <mod snip>

I have said enough.

kemen

a club has every right to join whenever it wants so give over with that 1! look if there was that much support for the opposition like you say there was they would have got in but,,, they didnt
as for that little rumour goin about last week, total bullsh!t

raymo19

Hi
Today I received a text message on my phone. Although it seemed funny at first I realised that it was not so funny afterall. The picture included two executive members in a demeening Star wars pose. It reminded me of the pictures going around of our most recent FF Taoiseach before his demise. I have just realised that the executive not only have lost the support of the membership they have lost their respect also. This is such a pity for the organisation. Kemen is that recently formed club holding any shoots in the near future ?

Regards
Raymo

raymo19

Is there any dates on the next shoot in that recently resurrected Courtlough club. Looking forward may even attend myself ?. I would especially love to meet all the members. Imagine trying to register ?. Probably take place in the Extreme carpark. Any dates yet? I suppose I should contact the puppett they may have them ?. Members should keep an eye on the amount of shoots held by this club ?. WE WILL PICK THIS UP LATER.


Regards
Raymo

Half-cocked

So a club has to hold registered shoots to be considered legit? In that case about 10 affiliated clubs don't fit the bill. When I was involved in the association at club level, it was there to promote clay shooting at all levels, not just the registered circuit. Things must have changed since then.

kemen

if you were at the agm you would have heard all the bullsh!t arguments about a few clubs not being legit and u also would have heard their response... if your lookin for someone to blame what about the clubs that cant follow the rules an were ineligible to vote.

raymo19

What is the definition of a club ?. It would be great if you could enlighten us.? You will find one word in the difinition "ACTIVELY". Now I ask you or the puppett to detail shoot dates or practice dates for that newly reaurrected club as I would like to attend ?. In relation to "registered shoots" I did not mention that. I spoke about registering. If one attends a flapper shoot anywhere in the country you have to give your name to have your score recorded.

Regards
Raymo

Half-cocked

raymo19 wrote: »

What is the definition of a club ?.

I don't know if the definition has changed since I was on a club committee (I assume its somewhere in the rules and regs on the website?), but back then a club was recognized as such if it paid its affiliation fee, all members had an equal shareholding in the clubs assets (no commercial entities) and had elected officers. All club members also had to be paid up individual association members.

I'm sure exact definitions are available on request or available somewhere on the website. I couldn't be bothered asking or looking;)

ACTIVELY can easliy be defined as putting on sunday morning practice for your own members, I don't think you need to throw open the door to the wider membership or run registered shoots to be considered promoting the sport. It's just that some clubs are more active than others. The truth is some clubs only join up for the club insurance cover. Once they are breaking a few clays the association is happy to have them.

Half-cocked

raymo19 wrote: »

Now I ask you or the puppett to detail shoot dates or practice dates for that newly reaurrected club as I would like to attend ?.

Are you a member of that club? Plenty of affiliated clubs are members only.

no12

Half-cocked wrote: »

raymo19 wrote: »

Now I ask you or the puppett to detail shoot dates or practice dates for that newly reaurrected club as I would like to attend ?.

Are you a member of that club? Plenty of affiliated clubs are members only.

I was a member of that club back in 2007 when it last ran a registered shoot. It was set up by KK and at that time he said it was being used as a vehicle to vote at the AGM. Its a one man club used for one reason and one reason only so one man can vote at the AGM. It surfaced its head at an AGM a few years ago where there was a motion to change the selection procedure for the High performance programme in relation to team selection for World Cup events. It only seems to surface when there is a motion against the Executive or change to HPP which the so called Chairman of the club was the HPP director at that time. It doesn't have elected officers has never had an AGM so if you guys still believe its a club you are bigger gobsh*%es than I give you credit for.

Half-cocked

no12 wrote: »

you are bigger gobsh*%es than I give you credit for.

Tempted to hit the report post button. We were having a civilized debate about the problems in the association but now it's degenerated to name calling. I won't be making any more posts here.

raymo19

Thanks no 12 for that very informative reply. So there you have it this club was resurrected for one reason only and that was to dilute the leinster vote. The truth is starting to come out slowly. One thing is for definite that the letter if the law (rules and regulations) was applied to the "for change camp" and was not applied atall to the puppett side.
I have been asked by a few "for change" members to stop posting to this thread as they are finding it is getting increasingly embarrasing for all concerned. I only started this thread to genuinely find out what happened at the AGM and look where it has brought us. I do respect the feelings of these members but I have to point out that it is importand that everybody knows what went on. I would also encourage anybody who gets a whiff of underhand tactics by the puppett to air it here. Atleast we can try to keep them in check. I would like to thank all contributors to the discussion both pro puppet and anti.

Kind regards
raymo

kemen

look your living of second hand info, if your so annoyed about this club your on about why didnt you attend the agm an ask all these pointless questions to the man himself.. (all these questions were answered).. at least then you have heard it all and made your own opinion instead of what you hear secondhand!
no12, why didnt you renew your membership??
raymo there was no underhand tatics used so give over..

no12

kemen wrote: »

no12, why didnt you renew your membership??
raymo there was no underhand tatics used so give over..

What renewal it was a once off payment, as I said their was no AGM no election of officers, no notice received to renew membership, there wasn't even as much as a membership card. The Chairman got to vote at the AGM, Courtlough used it as a vehicle to run a few shoots. I don't really want to go into it here but their is alot more to it I'll gladly sit down and explain the details to anyone that wants to know.

kemen

membership of a club is a one off payment?? id love if that was the case!! im a member of a few clubs and i dont have a membership card for any of them!! look a club can do what it very well likes when the affiliation is payed, theres no need for any questions to be asked because i heard them all at the agm an heard the answers from the person in charge

no12

kemen wrote: »

membership of a club is a one off payment?? id love if that was the case!! im a member of a few clubs and i dont have a membership card for any of them!! look a club can do what it very well likes when the affiliation is payed, theres no need for any questions to be asked because i heard them all at the agm an heard the answers from the person in charge

Kemen you are the minority because I know anyone that was at the meeting found the answers laughable but if that's what you believe that's your perogative your entitled to it. I know the truth and facts regarding it, I do not believe its a legitimate club. I will ask you one question if for example I wake up in the morning take a notion to set up a club on my own without a ground to shoot on say Ballygobackwards Trap club fill in the forms and pay my affiliation fee to the association out of my own pocket because I want to have a vote at the AGM would you consider me a legitimate club?? And would you consider it appropriate and acceptable behaviour from the association to allow me personally have the same rights as every other club in the country??

raymo19

Kemen no sports organisation in Irealnd has been at the receiving end of more legal challenges nor has threatened more legal's. The membership have woken up to the reality that something is grossly wrong within the organisation and legal proceedings are only a symptom of the wrongs that have been perpetrated. Its incredible what happened at the AGM by any stretch of the imagination but the only redeeming factor is that it has awoken the membership to the real problems within the organisation. Im sure you are disappointed that the control freaks and the rest of the mob have been finally rumbled and wont get away with any more bully boy tactics. Iim sorry lads I did say I would cease but Kemen seens to think that all is rosey in the garden.

Regards
Raymo

kemen

how many members were in the club when it started no12??
raymo i dont see ur point here, why was nothing said last year or the year before if things are in such bad order, at the back of its a personal agenda blown out of proportion and has gathered support by big promises made to clubs!! and if you cant see that then i dont see anymore point in adding to this, you can keep on believing the "secondhand" info your receiving

raymo19

You really dont get it do you ?. I couldnt care if my information was three month old fifth hand information. I am just making sure the everybody who types those five letters in on a search engine will know the goings at that AGM and most importantly see the arrogance displayed by the puppett and yourself. Change is coming whether or not you or the puppett accept it. I would hate to be in their shoes for the next year. I believe the general media are now starting to show an interest. That will be fun. I'm surprised the puppett have not tried to scilence you as you are making bigger fools of them.

Regards
Raymo

Sparks

raymo19 wrote: »

I couldnt care if my information was three month old fifth hand information.

We (as in, the mods in the shooting forum) do care.

Dissent isn't a bad thing in a shooting body. I had a ducks-eye-view of the shotgun blast when the NTSA went through it's fair share of dissent and strife, and it came out the far side stronger as a result of that strife. So have several other bodies, and we've never censored discussion of the grievances on here (and there are several other threads on here about dissent with the ICPSA if you use the search function, and at least one of those led to very distinct improvements for the ICPSA). Personally, I think that honest disagreements lead to a stronger sport in the long term, so long as the short term is approached equally honestly.

But there's a line between discussing a legitimate grievance and spouting hearsay to try to blacken someone's name. It's a line drawn by the Defamation Act, not by boards.ie; but we do abide by it, so do your argument a favour and stay on the non-defamatory side of the line and verify your facts.

raymo19

Thanks again for all your commentry. I have achieved what I wanted to.


kind Regards
Raymo

kemen

raymo you've been basically told that your trying to blacken the ICPSA'a name right there so i dont know what your proud of.. you've made yourself look very foolish and havent done you or your buddies any favours

raymo19

Hi Kemen,
I have tried to hilight to all the underhand tactics used at and in advance of that so called AGM last week. I would never try to blacken the ICPSA as I believe that if properly managed it is the way forward for Irish Shooting. The puppett themselves are doing quite job of Blackening the ICPSA's name presently they certainly dont need my help. The sooner they are ousted the better for all.

Kind Regards
Raymo.

kemen

i heard of a few underhand tactics used by the opposition myself!!

raymo19

Do please enlighten us ?. Did you notice the puppettmaster general's attempt to create anti leinster sentiment the very week of the agm ?.

Regards
raymo

kemen

im not gonna bother cause unlike you i dont want to tarnish a groups name who are not here to defend themselves.. so grow up abit

raymo19

Just as I thought nothing. Well im going to enlighten you. Imagine people using the ISPSA website and coaching of junior members the very week of the AGM to create division within the organisation. How low can/did they stoop to retain control. Juniors should not have been used political footballs.

Raymo.

kemen

well my club were made big promises to vote against (thats just 1) there were more. and explain your point on the coaching?? is that not a good thing? and it was actually Lcpsa that ran that.

raymo19

What were the promises ? Did they include promoting Healing within the organisation, listening to the membership ?. Anyway coaching is a great thing especially when clubs provide the funding and members give up their own time to run it. Now you should direct your questioning twards the puppettmaster general in relation to how he turned this coaching into a political football the very week of the agm. He tried to to create division within the organisation in relation to the coaching. He was then forced to change his devisive coments on the ICPSA website. This week when the puppett were restored to power he had the hipocracy to thank the clubs and members that ran the training. kemen this is only the tip of the Iceberg. I now realise that you are very poorly informed in relation to the puppett and it would not be fair to indulge you any further. I have hilighted enough.

Kind Regards
raymo