Finally The Legals System In This Country Gets Something Right

MagicSean

oh_nos wrote: »

It's this I can't wrap my head around, unless of course the person wanting it either thinks that the legal system will punish these excuses of human beings appropriately or agrees with and/or is sympathetic to the crimes these despicable people commit. (the legal system can't do the former)

Whatever your class position in society, if children are your target you deserve a lot more than what the courts could ever throw at you and that includes the actions of the father in this case. If you think otherwise imo your as sick as the people that commit these crimes!

You are of course entitled to your opinion. As am I. I don't see revenge as a legitimate reason for inflicting grevious bodily harm on someone wether they deserve it or not. This man wasn't equitted because his cause was just. He was equitted because he was not in control of his actions at the time.

MagicSean

dj jarvis wrote: »

but as i understand this could not have been a case of mistaken identity,
as i posted above, the cops and the dpp did not think it was a case of mistaken id - they would not have gone near the case otherwise.

i also take from what i read that the pedo was either a family member ( extended maybe ? ) or a family friend - either way the father knew
and was justified in his actions becasue he was found guilty.

the right man got a golf club across the head , he is lucky the father did not decide to necklace him or had a shotgun to hand

maybe it just me but i dont see any reason for NOT doing what he done
to take it one step further - if it was me i would have made sure it was done " anonymously " , to save my family from further trauma

i would love to know exactly what " paramilitary " group he was a member of , i seem to remember his brothers in arms taking great delight in taking care of pedos in the not to distant past - maybe said members can finish the job inside - just a thought

To save your family? Do you think his daughters are better off in some way now? You don't think the stress of two concurrent trials and the fear of losing their father was hard on them? This mans actions did not help his daughters in any way.

token101

HalloweenJack wrote: »

Dangerous precedent to set.

It's basically saying it's open season on scumbags.

I know most people will agree with it but you're just dropping to their level if you go and beat them up.

True. But if they can have mitigating circumstances for their sh*tty feral existence, then decent people can have mitigation for finding out something like their children being raped.

benway

oh_nos wrote: »

It's this I can't wrap my head around, unless of course the person wanting it either thinks that the legal system will punish these excuses of human beings appropriately or agrees with and/or is sympathetic to the crimes these despicable people commit. (the legal system can't do the former)

If it's me you're talking about, I should point out that I think the sentence in this case was probably about right - always hard to say when you haven't heard all the evidence.

This is why the sentencing system allows for mitigation, and recognises that not all convictions for the same offence are equal.

Of course, if it was some faceless "scumbag" we were talking about, people would no doubt be banging on about "excuses" and calling for mandatory minimum sentences, which would mean that the judge would have no discretion in cases like these.

Having said that, the legal system must be the primary punishment for all offenders, would never, ever condone someone taking the law into their own hands, even if I have some degree of sympathy with them.

Logical Fallacy

dj jarvis wrote: »

but as i understand this could not have been a case of mistaken identity,

Where did i say it was?

dj jarvis

MagicSean wrote: »

To save your family? Do you think his daughters are better off in some way now? You don't think the stress of two concurrent trials and the fear of losing their father was hard on them? This mans actions did not help his daughters in any way.

i think you are missing the big picture here - the father knew that the pedo would get a light sentence ( will be out in 7 i would assume ) so he decided to make sure the ****er got what was coming - and that is the point

the legal system WOULD NEVER give this man what he so rightly deserved
so the father duly obliged

are his daughters better off , probably not . but maybe someone's daughter might be in the future

and you are also forgetting how it helps him ..... this pr1ck took from him the feeling that he done his best for his children - he will have to live with this for the rest of his life - on top of what his children and the rest of his family are going to have to deal with for evermore

in its basest form, getting revenge for what this pr1ck done to his kids is justification enough - i bet he felt he was helping not just his girls but society when he bent the golf club off this ****ers head

if he was lashing out becasue someone keyed his car, then he should have done time

the reason he did not is becasue he was trying to kill a pedo
what part of that are you not getting

this was a special case - fair ****s to him and the judge

lets hope his family can overcome this horror
lets hope the pedo dies screaming for his life

** also you pull me up on my quote " to save the family " , you miss my point , if he had a balaclava on he might have gotten away with it - this in turn would have saved his family the trouble of another court case - the fact that he did not cover up only make me like this guy more and more - he was making a big statement - one that this pr1ck wont forget in a hurry **

dj jarvis

Logical Fallacy wrote: »

Where did i say it was?

you mentioned that in some cases mistaken identity causes people to be beaten up

i mentioned this was not a case of mistaken identity - so justified

fair point is it not ?

token101

benway wrote: »

If it's me you're talking about, I should point out that I think the sentence in this case was probably about right - always hard to say when you haven't heard all the evidence.

This is why the sentencing system allows for mitigation, and recognises that not all convictions for the same offence are equal.

Of course, if it was some faceless "scumbag" we were talking about, people would no doubt be banging on about "excuses" and calling for mandatory minimum sentences, which would mean that the judge would have no discretion in cases like these.

Having said that, the legal system must be the primary punishment for all offenders, would never, ever condone someone taking the law into their own hands, even if I have some degree of sympathy with them.

Well maybe mandatory sentences aren't a good idea. But there's mitigating circumstances, like this case, and then there's scumbags making excuses for their behaviour, like countless other cases.

MagicSean

dj jarvis wrote: »

i think you are missing the big picture here - the father knew that the pedo would get a light sentence ( will be out in 7 i would assume ) so he decided to make sure the ****er got what was coming - and that is the point

the legal system WOULD NEVER give this man what he so rightly deserved
so the father duly obliged

are his daughters better off , probably not . but maybe someone's daughter might be in the future

and you are also forgetting how it helps him ..... this pr1ck took from him the feeling that he done his best for his children - he will have to live with this for the rest of his life - on top of what his children and the rest of his family are going to have to deal with for evermore

in its basest form, getting revenge for what this pr1ck done to his kids is justification enough - i bet he felt he was helping not just his girls but society when he bent the golf club off this ****ers head

if he was lashing out becasue someone keyed his car, then he should have done time

the reason he did not is becasue he was trying to kill a pedo
what part of that are you not getting

this was a special case - fair ****s to him and the judge

lets hope his family can overcome this horror
lets hope the pedo dies screaming for his life

** also you pull me up on my quote " to save the family " , you miss my point , if he had a balaclava on he might have gotten away with it - this in turn would have saved his family the trouble of another court case - the fact that he did not cover up only make me like this guy more and more - he was making a big statement - one that this pr1ck wont forget in a hurry **

You are the one not getting it. The reason he got off was because his emotional state prevented him having proper control over himself. He did not get off because of anything else. The court did not justify his actions in anyway. They took account of his mental state only.

shedweller

What i take from this is that, in a similar situation, you need to get the revenge act over with quickly. Take too long and you will be deemed to be more in control of your emotions and therfore do serious time.
Thats a lot of white hot violence in under 5 minutes!

I'm wondering, whats the deal with community service? Does a few guards go with you while you do it? I can't imagine they would be too hard on him.

pragmatic1

HalloweenJack wrote: »

Dangerous precedent to set.

It's basically saying it's open season on scumbags.

I know most people will agree with it but you're just dropping to their level if you go and beat them up.

It should be open season on scumbags. When you act like an animal towards other human beings your human rights should go out the window.

Sunnyisland

pragmatic1 wrote: »

It should be open season on scumbags. When you act like an animal towards other human beings your human rights should go out the window.

Your not been very pragmatic about this pragmatic

markus pride

How did he know his daughters had been abused? I'm assuming they told him.

That's where condoning this type of carry-on is dangerous territory. Women love to play the victim and often falsely claim to be the victim of a sexual assault while blaming a totally innocent man. If it was obligatory to beat every man accused of a sexual crime with a golf club, a lot of innocent men would be done unjust harm.

In this case I'm glad he got the beating he deserved, and I hope he gets plenty more of it in prison.

benway

token101 wrote: »

Well maybe mandatory sentences aren't a good idea. But there's mitigating circumstances, like this case, and then there's scumbags making excuses for their behaviour, like countless other cases.

Here, what exactly do you call justifying a non-custodial sentence for beating someone with a golf club by reference to extraneous factors other than making excuses?

Fact is, some excuses are valid, some aren't, and some are worth more than others. You can't insist on personal responsibility overriding all mitigating factors in some cases, but not in others.

None of which justifies vigilantism.

hairyprincess

markus pride wrote: »

How did he know his daughters had been abused? I'm assuming they told him.

That's where condoning this type of carry-on is dangerous territory. Women love to play the victim and often falsely claim to be the victim of a sexual assault while blaming a totally innocent man. If it was obligatory to beat every man accused of a sexual crime with a golf club, a lot of innocent men would be done unjust harm.

In this case I'm glad he got the beating he deserved, and I hope he gets plenty more of it in prison.

Women love to play the victim??? Are you actually serious?? I, nor anyone else who I know who has been abused 'loves to pay the victim'.

Cases like these really brings out the narrow mindedness of people

Dostoevsky

Great news. I look forward to people taking the law into their own hands and beating up all other pediatricians...

beeroclock

Dostoevsky wrote: »

Great news. I look forward to people taking the law into their own hands and beating up all other pediatricians...

boom boom!

ch750536

Many parents here would do the same even if completely out of character. The judge has to weigh up the state of mind before sentencing. In this case he correctly judged that the guy was out of his mind at the time & is not a threat to anyone else.

chickendinner

Here is the precedent.

Warning- Graphic Scenes

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oi3Hyxuf5AE

markus pride

hairyprincess wrote: »

Women love to play the victim??? Are you actually serious?? I, nor anyone else who I know who has been abused 'loves to pay the victim'.

Cases like these really brings out the narrow mindedness of people

You did feel the need to announce the fact you've been abused openly on this forum. Where do you think that urge comes from? Do you think a man who had been abused in that way would come out and announce it like that? That's all I'm saying..

the culture of deference

HalloweenJack wrote: »

Dangerous precedent to set.

It's basically saying it's open season on scumbags.

I know most people will agree with it but you're just dropping to their level if you go and beat them up.

I disagree. Where is the protection the public deserve When you have car jackers robbing cars at knifepoint, with an arse load of convictions, while out on bail and on Early release from prison. There is no level.

chickendinner wrote: »

Here is the precedent.

Warning- Graphic Scenes

That is some video, the father did 5 years, at least he made sure that the kidnapper would never get another child again.

The older I get the less liberal I become. How many convictions should you be allowed have before you give up your right of existance?

dark crystal

markus pride wrote: »

That's where condoning this type of carry-on is dangerous territory. Women love to play the victim and often falsely claim to be the victim of a sexual assault while blaming a totally innocent man .

Oh ffs. What a load of utter bollocks.

Have you read the statistics on the amount of rape cases that actually ever end with a guilty verdict. It's shocking.

Attitudes like this are why so many women don't report rapes. Yes, a few women have lied over the course of history (not many and not often) and should be dealt with accordingly, but your 'women love to play the victim' comment is part of the reason genuine rape victims are dealt such a sh!tty deal in this country.

Jeboa Safari

benway wrote: »

I'd beg to differ on the "doing a community service" bit, but that aside, I think it's ironic that a judge is being applauded here for applying mitigation in view of a diminished responsibility type finding, and the personal circumstances of the accused. Applying the usual principles in sentencing, in other words.

Normally, in cases like that, you'd get a swarm of posters bleating on with "personal responsibility", "do the crime, do the time", wooly liberal judiciary, making excuses for "scumbags" type nonsense. I believe that the likes of this:



is what's known in the trade as backpedaling.

Everythings not black and white, can you really not see the differences between a case like this and some scumbag assaulting someone for the craic?

markus pride

markus pride wrote: »

How did he know his daughters had been abused? I'm assuming they told him.

That's where condoning this type of carry-on is dangerous territory. Women love to play the victim and often falsely claim to be the victim of a sexual assault while blaming a totally innocent man. If it was obligatory to beat every man accused of a sexual crime with a golf club, a lot of innocent men would be done unjust harm.

In this case I'm glad he got the beating he deserved, and I hope he gets plenty more of it in prison.

You are making assumptions here and tarring an entire sex at the same time.

The parts of your post I have highlighted just beggars belief really.

dark crystal

markus pride wrote: »

You did feel the need to announce the fact you've been abused openly on this forum. Where do you think that urge comes from? Do you think a man who had been abused in that way would come out and announce it like that? That's all I'm saying..

Unbelieveable...

Tell you what, go and read a few reports into some of the cases perpertrated by the Catholic church, Christian Brothers, Industrial schools etc and then come back and repeat that ridiculous comment.

chickendinner

the culture of deference wrote: »

That is some video, the father did 5 years, at least he made sure that the kidnapper would never get another child again.

Watch the video again.

He only got five years probation

dj jarvis

markus pride wrote: »

How did he know his daughters had been abused? I'm assuming they told him.

That's where condoning this type of carry-on is dangerous territory. Women love to play the victim and often falsely claim to be the victim of a sexual assault while blaming a totally innocent man. If it was obligatory to beat every man accused of a sexual crime with a golf club, a lot of innocent men would be done unjust harm.

In this case I'm glad he got the beating he deserved, and I hope he gets plenty more of it in prison.

as i pointed out these were pre teens, hence the name CHILDREN , and as i also pointed out a teenager or adult are much more likely to make a accusation that is false than a child - and as i also pointed out as far as i can see the father knew this person so was able to make a judgement call on the accusation - and finally the HSE - the cops and the DPP would have looked into the accusation before letting it go to court ,

i suggest as you are new here ( judging by your post count ) - try reading the thread before making inflammatory remarks

you cant be suggesting a similarity between 2 small girls claiming sexual abuse and having it proven, with a spurned lover full of beer claiming a assault - and either one HAS to be investigated no matter what until it is proven otherwise . full stop


as for your comment " this kind of carry on " - tell ya what , god forbid if you have kids ( which i doubt ) and they have the same awful thing happen 2 them - i wonder would you still feel the same ?
me..... id be breaking out the golf bag and a bottle of whiskey

Logical Fallacy

dj jarvis wrote: »

you mentioned that in some cases mistaken identity causes people to be beaten up

i mentioned this was not a case of mistaken identity - so justified

fair point is it not ?

Not really, I don't really get the point of arguing against a point i never made tbh.

Each to their own though.

Logical Fallacy

markus pride wrote: »

How did he know his daughters had been abused? I'm assuming they told him.

That's where condoning this type of carry-on is dangerous territory. Women love to play the victim and often falsely claim to be the victim of a sexual assault while blaming a totally innocent man. If it was obligatory to beat every man accused of a sexual crime with a golf club, a lot of innocent men would be done unjust harm.

In this case I'm glad he got the beating he deserved, and I hope he gets plenty more of it in prison.

Markus, someday you will see a vagina in the reals and understand there is no need to be scared of it.

dj jarvis

Logical Fallacy wrote: »

Yeah, but then you have the cases where innocent people get run out of their homes or beaten due to cases of mistaken identity.

It's a tough one, because i'm the kind of guy who loves a bit of well placed street justice but I also have to understand it's this desire and the expression of it than can foster the above situation.

is that not your comment ? i know it was not directed to me but none the less is still yours ,

that is why i made the comment, not getting at you just making a comment on what you have said

Logical Fallacy

dj jarvis wrote: »

is that not your comment ? i know it was not directed to me but none the less is still yours ,

that is why i made the comment, not getting at you just making a comment on what you have said

Indeed it is, but i clearly draw the distinction between cases of mistaken identity and this particular case.

dj jarvis

Logical Fallacy wrote: »

Indeed it is, but i clearly draw the distinction between cases of mistaken identity and this particular case.

LOL ok - i know the point you were trying to make - i was making the point that it was not really applicable in this case as id was not a issue - so in a roundabout way making the same point - no offense intended

steddyeddy

danniemcq wrote: »

From www.donegalnow.com

A Donegal father who assaulted an ex-paramilitary who had raped and sexually abused his daughters has escaped jail.

The 37-year-old admitted assault causing harm to the paedophile at Rossnowlagh beach on September 17, 2009.

The man - who cannot be named to protect the identities of his daughters - admitted hitting the pervert with a golf club while he was sitting in his car. When the golf club broke he continued the attack by sticking the shaft of the stick into the abusers side.
.........

Judge O’Hagan admitted that the father had been “overpowered by emotion” when he discovered his two daughters were abused.

He imposed a sentence of 18 months on the father but replaced it with 150 hours community service.

http://www.donegalnow.com/sp/article_manager/detail/father_who_attacked_man_who_raped_his_daughters_escapes_jail

the system it works! it actually works!

Brilliant. Fair play to the father. I hope more people act on abuse and make sure the abusers in this country dont get away scot free anymore.

df1985

Scumbags get off for assualt all the time, least this man had a reason!

Logical Fallacy

dj jarvis wrote: »

LOL ok - i know the point you were trying to make - i was making the point that it was not really applicable in this case as id was not a issue - so in a roundabout way making the same point - no offense intended

No worries mate, i had just taking my meds and they tend to put my brain in neutral for about 2 hours afterwards, i really shouldn't post on the internet during that time frame. lol

steddyeddy

markus pride wrote: »

hairyprincess wrote: »

Women love to play the victim??? Are you actually serious?? I, nor anyone else who I know who has been abused 'loves to pay the victim'.

Cases like these really brings out the narrow mindedness of people

You did feel the need to announce the fact you've been abused openly on this forum. Where do you think that urge comes from? Do you think a man who had been abused in that way would come out and announce it like that? That's all I'm saying..

Its because of statements like that that abuse isnt taken seriously in this country. It takes a lot of courage for someone to say it in any situation.
By the way people who were sexually abused have nothing to be ashamed about.