Powers & Irish Times Short Story Comp

kieslowski

Whelpling wrote: »

Congrats Kieslowski!

Good luck for the win! Let us know how you get on

Will do. When one of the other stories is announced as the winner I will be straight on here lambasting the judges!

recoltes

I may have started the Powers post mortem with an earlier post. Just because I did not enjoy all of the top ten does not mean that they don't deserve to be there. After all I'm not a judge. Congratulations to those selected and well done on making it. The Bridport is worth a look for those who weren't picked. Think it's closing shortly. See you all next year, was a pleasure to compete.

psicic

Congrats to the shortlisters.

Had a re-read of my story - saccharin rubbish! I remember it being better while I was writing it, and only realise how much of the feel of the story I lost while I was cutting it down to 450 words. I now physically cringe at some of the awkward phrasing - especially that first line!

Anyways, since I wasn't shortlisted or longlisted - and I don't really care about appearing in Powers promotional material, here's my story in all its glory!

(I was really hoping someone else would have posted their own losing entry first!)

_____ooooOO Story Start OOoooo_____

Gerry impatiently bounded from the door of the bus and made a dash towards work.

"About 15 minutes and I'm late!" he thought, glancing at his watch as he pushed through the thronging crowds.

He turned onto Grafton Street. Instead of the familiar sight of red paving stones stretching out in front of him he was faced by a dark, undulating sea of people's heads.

He didn't have time to hesitate or think about alternative routes. He took a deep breath and plunged forward - he wouldn't be late and the masses would just have to part for him.

These were unfamiliar waters, however. It seemed like Dublin was awash with people from all the nations of mankind, including rugby-enthused Italians clinging to hope, starry-eyed Americans seeking confirmation of their ancestral ambitions and English revellers just looking for fun and entertainment. Try as he might, Gerry couldn't gain an advantage against this current of humanity and he was reduced to a frustratingly slow tourists' pace.

The lilting music of buskers rose and fell as he moved by them, dredging up long forgotten memories. The fiddle music that reminded him of an open fire and, strangely, Christmas dinners. Outdated Californian pop music that reminded him of high-Summer in the late nineties. The blues trio that reminded him of late-night discussions with his father over a glass of Powers, interrupted only by the click of the record player and the inevitable argument about what to play next.

Suddenly, a gap appeared! A school of Spanish students had broken away leaving a clear path ahead. Gerry began to accelerate, his heart racing.

As the cacophony of noise, still dominated by the blues trio, began to fade, his mind drifted back to work and the weekly pre-'scheduling meeting' meeting which he was rushing towards.

"I can make it... I can..." Gerry's thoughts trailed off and, without warning, he stopped.

A ripple of clucks and tuts emanated from impeded tourists.

"Why are all my fond memories so... so old?" he wondered

He briefly thought about the last decade, filled with spreadsheets and career moves and networking.... but nothing compared to his yellowed and faded memories of family, of enjoyment, of things done.... differently.

He smiled as he wondered if he and his father were discussing blues legends today, how long would it be before one or the other of them resorted to fact checking on the internet. If you excluded post-turkey small talk at Christmas, he hadn't really spoken to his Dad in about five years.

Gerry turned and, walking slowly back towards the blues trio, took out his phone.

"Dad? I have the day off work. Do you still have the record player?"

Das Kitty

Congrats to the shortlisters! I'm a bit sad I didn't enter, but seeing the pages and pages of nail chewing here, maybe I was better off!

Picking up on a suggestion by pickarooney earlier, maybe people could post up their short stories to be voted on. The winner would be the person with the most gratuitious inclusion of Powers. Might be more fun than being judged on the relative merits and demerits of the actual stories all over again.

MOONlit

Psicic, well done for posting your story. I really enjoyed reading it. Its my kind of story anyway because its a tale. I wanted to know from the start what was gona happen next... and at the end! Only thing is, to me, the character seems like he might have a life somewhere else , like in a longer story, with a past and a future and that the story is 'a day in the life of.....' I like that myself.
But i guess you have to look at what is standard procedure in a short story.
It seems that the successful short story has to fit in a box ie somewhat standardised, and i read that a short story should not have the air of an excerpt. But I dunno i guess!

Please continue with it. Very nice pace too. You can do it!

Chocolate Chip

Well I like it a lot. Thank you so much, I really enjoyed reading that and I think you are very hard on yourself. I'm going to post mine up too.

D-FENS

The stories that stick out for me from the shortlist are Chips, the Train back and Aprez Match.

Chips is a good laugh, and “Uncle” figures appearing in children’s’ lives and trying to impress them is definitely a theme that many of us can relate to.

The Train Back is one of the only stories to have a surprise in it and I like short stories that involve passing exchanges between strangers like this for some reason, life is made up of so many of them. I also have a blind grandmother and can remember similar incidents growing up.

Same with Aprez Match, some posters have said that Verbose is the only story that stays close to the theme but this captures it really well I think. I sat in my car eating a burger king with my son about three months ago during a long journey and got the lovely feeling the writer is telling us about here. Interesting that the writer is female but the two character are male, is she writing from personal experience and just changed the sex for the story, or writing about her son, father, brother…either way, probably the story I enjoyed the most.

I didn’t make the long list or the shortlist and definitely tried to follow the “feel good” route of last year’s winner, obviously to the cheesy point of no return, as well as committing the apparent mortal sin of mentioning Powers (Although less so than my effort in post no. 27 of this thread). Sorry now I wasn’t brave enough to add more humour or darkness to the story somehow.
I’ll post it here at the weekend when the full competition is over, may as well make the Boards list

Lemmingway

The brief said, "We would prefer something that relates to Ireland 2012". Yet they threw out everything to do with job and house loss. Go figure.

Chocolate Chip

That is what really matters. Sticking to the theme!

I shall post mine later. My money is on Aprez match to win. I would be ok about that.

c68zapdsm5i1ru

Whelpling wrote: »

Chicken House? Me too!

Unfortunately my story is aimed more at the 4-6 yr old market so wouldn't qualify. I would be interested in a recommendation for a good agent for that area of children's literature. (Probably should have started a separate thread on this).

Just to justify my post on here - a final thought on the Powers competition. The original announcement seemed to indicate that they were looking for a contemporary story with a twist. The interview between Roisin Ingle and Shay Hegarty gives the impression that the judges genuinely believed they had also gone with this and weeded out the more predictable or mundane stuff.
However, the longlist told another tale. There were plenty of quirky little gems and stories with original approaches buried in there. But you had to wade through oodles of competently written but 'nice but dull' stuff to find them. (A bit like trying to find a designer bargain in TK Maxx. You need patience and will power to keep looking).

Maybe next year set clearer parameters, stick to them, and publish a shorter but higher quality longlist that will really showcase Irish writers who are taking a few risks and trying new things and bringing Irish writing on to a new phase.

echo beach

Lilly Prehistoric Tin wrote: »

Maybe next year set clearer parameters, stick to them, and publish a shorter but higher quality longlist that will really showcase Irish writers who are taking a few risks and trying new things and bringing Irish writing on to a new phase.

I would agree. I honestly don't think the judges, any more than the participants, really knew what it was they were looking for. They just hoped they would know it when they saw it.

Maybe it is just me but I'd find it pretty hard to bring Irish writing onto a new phase in 450 words.

c68zapdsm5i1ru

echo beach wrote: »

I would agree. I honestly don't think the judges, any more than the participants, really knew what it was they were looking for. They just hoped they would know it when they saw it.

Maybe it is just me but I'd find it pretty hard to bring Irish writing onto a new phase in 450 words.

Well, maybe that was a rather grandiose statement. What I meant was it would be nice to see a longlist that showcased Irish writers who are innovative and original in approach as opposed to one full of writers harking back to traditional themes and writing styles.

pickarooney

Chocolate Chip wrote: »

That is what really matters. Sticking to the theme!

I shall post mine later. My money is on Aprez match to win. I would be ok about that.

What is "aprez" supposed to mean? (I would ask the author)

DermoLogical

For anyone on the long list, but not on the shortlist, you can keep biting your nails for another few months:

According to the Powers page of Facebook, "the 50 won’t be released until the book is published" in the Autumn.

D-FENS

DermoLogical wrote: »

For anyone on the long list, but not on the shortlist, you can keep biting your nails for another few months:

According to the Powers page of Facebook, "the 50 won’t be released until the book is published" in the Autumn.

Bad form that it wasn't made more clear on the Irish Times website, but at least it gives hope that they will actually read them all and pick the best.
I'm not on the longlst so at least the heartache is over for me

By the way, the Long list is back up on the site

http://www.irishtimes.com/blogs/powers-short-story-competition/

Miranda7

Congratulations on getting into the short list. I really think people are taking this very seriously. Entering competitions is a bit of fun and if you win or get short listed it's a bonus. I got into the book last year but not even in the long list this year. Still I'm glad I entered. I didn't realise until today that there was a thread here for it and have only just read some of it. I must log in here more often and maybe hear about more competitions.

Whelpling

Shameless plug. More competitions

---

> here

MOONlit

FYI, I have done a lot of research about the flash fiction story over the last few days and - well, I have had an epiphany.
Irrespective of the longlist debacle and sloppy behaviour of the powers that be, I realise that I totally wrote the wrong story for a flash fiction competition.

In the last week, I checked out winners of various competions in the uk for flash fiction. I learned that the subject matter in a flash story may be daft and senseless, but if it is full of charm ( vry difficult to attain that of course! ) and is beautifully written - or has some other 'je ne sais quoi' in abundence, - thats what turns it into a masterpiece apparently. I believe it because I was reluctantly completely captivated from the very first line, by many of the winning stories there - ie there is a fab one i came across where a woman sees a fish instead of her husband. Perhaps you all know this already as you my have taken creative writing courses - but its an alleluia moment for me.

Whelpling

Yeah, flash fic tends to be more like prose poetry, with less of the general 'rules' for short stories being applicable.

echo beach

Whelpling wrote: »

Yeah, flash fic tends to be more like prose poetry

The winner of the Arena flash fiction competition is a poet and quite a bit of her excellent story could be classed as poetry.
You can hear it on the RTE Radio 1 website on the Arena programme for May 15th, together the judges comments which suggest a process that did stick to the criteria given although he admits it is subjective choice in the end.

kieslowski

I guess I'd have heard by now if I'd won this...ah well nice to be shortlisted anyway.

LegacyUser

Hi Kieslowski,

I was on the short list too. Also heard nothing. Maybe they are going to do a big reveal in the paper tomorrow. One can always dream.....

kieslowski

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/magazine/2012/0526/1224316639540.html

Well done to her!

pickarooney

They got the title right this time at least.

Chocolate Chip

I'm very happy she won, a few of those finalists should have won something too. Excellent.

Well done to her.

Claymore

Don't mean to be overly critical but for me it is quite a cloying, hackneyed story. A disappointing winner from 4000+ entries. I really thought the winner would be something special. Just my opinion.

echo beach

Claymore wrote: »

Don't mean to be overly critical but for me it is quite a cloying, hackneyed story.

Sounds more like begrudery than being overly critical.
It wasn't my favourite and I thought it could have done without the last line (wait for the rush of people saying that was the best part!) but still feel it is a deserving winner.

Sorry you didn't pocket the cash kieslowski, but there is always next year and you can have a go at some of the other competitions listed. One of them closes on May 31st so it is time to get working.

Madammoiselle

The winner is a fantastic writer. I'm sure she won't be "in between jobs" for much longer. I hope she does well for herself. I guess with qualifications etc behind her it made it easier for her to be better than any of us novices.
This competition spurred me on to be a better writer, It had been over two years since I'd last written anything, I'd never written a short story before and now I'm doing an online creative writing course that I love.
So here's to bigger and better things guys.
This competition opened my eyes to writing again & for that I am grateful.

"Celebrating what truly matters."

MOONlit

I think she knew how to tailor a story for the competion which eluded the rest of us. I think she did a great job in picking that style of writing. You can tell that she can do much better than that if the occasion requires it and Im really happy for her cos she has done the hard work preparing for it and seems like a really nice girl with a great smile like the father character in her story.I hope to see her really shine in other more literary competitions. If you check out the winner of the Arena competition on rte, the winner has written with the same style. Personally I wouldnt part with a cent to listen to the Arena winning story again.The 'powers' winning story is beautiful comparing to that one. Theres the thing - how does all this relate to the world of commerce/bread and butter? Or is it world in a vacuum where Creative writing tutors judge these comps and so set the style du jour that is sort of navel gazing or underwhelming to me anyway. Where did the William Trevor short story go?I loved Ms Galvins story although, im ashamed to say i only went beyond the first paragraph, after it won - but the Arena winning story worries me. If thats what its coming to, I think Ill hang up my pencil.

echo beach

MOONlit wrote: »

Where did the William Trevor short story go?I loved Ms Galvins story although, im ashamed to say i only went beyond the first paragraph, after it won - but the Arena winning story worries me. If thats what its coming to, I think Ill hang up my pencil.

I think you miss the point a little. Neither of these stories are 'short stories' of the William Trevor mode, which run to about 5,000 words or so. They are 'flash fiction', which is a different form using a tenth of that. It is like comparing a traditional short story to a novel.

Personally I preferred the Arena winner but I wouldn't write in that style myself. It is one person's subjective opinion of what they like, not a dictate that we must all follow.

c68zapdsm5i1ru

I thought Apres Match was a beautifully written piece of prose ( I could smell those chips). It wasn't actually a short story though and it was set 30 years ago which wasn't the criteria set by the organisers. No problem with the quality of the writing, but if the organisors are going to set criteria and boundaries they should stick to them.

PurpleBee

I liked that winning story, didn't blow me away but I really hated the way she read it out, just made me cringe.

c68zapdsm5i1ru

echo beach wrote: »

Sounds more like begrudery than being overly critical.
It wasn't my favourite and I thought it could have done without the last line (wait for the rush of people saying that was the best part!) but still feel it is a deserving winner.

Sorry you didn't pocket the cash kieslowski, but there is always next year and you can have a go at some of the other competitions listed. One of them closes on May 31st so it is time to get working.

I don't think that's fair. I also didn't think this story should have won but it's not begrudgery. There were 3 stories in the short list I had picked as possible winners but Aprez match wasn't one of them. That's not begrudgery, it's an opinion.

MOONlit

PurpleBee wrote: »

I liked that winning story, didn't blow me away but I really hated the way she read it out, just made me cringe.

Yes. perhaps thats it. I only ever heard her reading it and yes it was the cringe. She didnt want to apply her own accent to it which spoke volumes about the piece which is ok of course. But I couldnt see why. And I dont know why but that really turned me off. Must try and read it cold.

DermoLogical

I enjoyed reading Apres Match until I got to the last line, which made me cringe - completely false and unnecessary.
But listening to her read it aloud was a very different experience: I cringed at every line.
In a (hopefully) non-begruding way, I'm quite glad she won because I think I can see myself writing a piece as good as hers.

Kinski

Just listened to her reading. Bad "story", badly read.

kilrush claire

I'd just like to add my voice to say how disappointed I am with this competion. I guess almost everything I say has been said, but I still think they should know what we think.
The goalposts were moved after we entered the competition and for a newspaper like the Irish Times and a company like Powers to have such a low opinion of the contestants bothers me. I won't be entering next year anyway, I would feel I would need to attend speech classes to be able to do my or any other story justice. They have our stories and we don't know if we are longlisted yet so are we free to enter them again in another competition? I know the Bridport is still open and would like to enter my story there. They should at least say who is on the longlist. We were lead to believe that after the 26th May, we would know where we stood.
The Irish Times/Powers could have at least hired an actor to read that girls story. It was terrible to listen to and better to read. A lot of actors would have loved to have the gig and I'm sure would have done a much better job and be glad of the exposure. Shame it feels like this after all the rewriting that went into weaving Powers into the story in a tasteful way. Coke got a mention though...one company that doesn't need the piece of product placement.

MOONlit

MOONlit wrote: »

Yes. perhaps thats it. I only ever heard her reading it and yes it was the cringe. She didnt want to apply her own accent to it which spoke volumes about the piece which is ok of course. But I couldnt see why. And I dont know why but that really turned me off. Must try and read it cold.

oops I was talking about the ARENA flash winner here.

Chocolate Chip

Is it too late to post our stories here?

MOONlit

Chocolate Chip wrote: »

Is it too late to post our stories here?

I would love to read your story please.

It reminds me AGAIN of the 2 weeks it took me to write my story a la 'prescribed theme' - a difficult excercise on several levels. In fact i missed out on precious time with my young son, on holiday from his foreign based schoo-( he is very dyslexic and so goes to a dyslexia school in Uk). That sacrifice was valid, as long as I thought I had the same chance 'technically' as everyone else, of success.
Hey, I know i need to shut up about it - but I think i will sue them for damages - 2 weeks of labouring on a piece of work, which i was invited to submit by XY, to be written according to, a written set of paticular guidelines, guideline which subsequently proved to be false and misleading - €10.000 compensation!!!!
Any lawyers in the house?
I know - Shut up about it!!!

pickarooney

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tVFBK9GhS5Q

cranlleo

I thought the short story winner was a worthy winner. The writing was sharp , evocative.The last sentence? Worked for me. The author is a born writer and understood exactly what was needed. No, I'm not related but the begrudging comments are sad.

I did find the Irish Times journo talking heads a bit smug, but they wanted something that was uplifting.

I made the longlist (and longlist/shortlist 17, ahh, conspiracies....) and enjoyed the experience.

Chocolate Chip

Here is my story so:


Celebrating what truly matters

“Do it, for me” she pleaded, forcing the wad of papers into his pocket.
Tony’s jaw clenched. “Fine Claire. I’ll do it. If it shuts you up” he whispered, slamming the door hard behind him.

She was worse today.

He thought back to the little dance they did on the bathroom floor, laughing as she waved her wand in the air, “pregnant!” Months passed and as his wife’s bump grew, so did the knot in his stomach. Now the deadline was just 5 weeks away.

His pace quickened. Morning was breaking and he did not want to be seen.

Rounding the corner he broke into a run. Feet thumping the concrete, his cheeks reddened thinking of the leaflets in his pocket.

“Handyman. All jobs welcome. Your neighbour, Tony.”

Seven months without work. Claire thought so little of him now. On and on he ran for almost an hour, trying to pound the humiliation into the ground. Eventually he had to stop, bending over, clutching his sides and gasping for breath.
When his heartbeat settled, he straightened himself up and began the long walk home. His shoulders were visibly lighter by the time he got there, his head felt clearer now and he knew exactly what to do.
He gingerly pushed open the door he had almost de-hinged just three hours earlier.
“Claire. I’m really sor”

“Help! TONY! HELP!”

Thundering up the stairs, he knew something was wrong. Heart jolting as he followed the red trail to the bathroom, he found Claire crouched in a pool of watery blood, yelping in pain.

Lifting her carefully, he carried her to their bed and dialled 999. He helped remove her wet pyjama bottoms while relaying their address.

Then squeezing her hand reassuringly, he switched the phone to loudspeaker.

“Is this her first child?” asked the voice
“no, it’s her husband.....”

“Aaaagggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!” Claire screamed and threw herself violently back onto the pillows. Tony’s eyes widened as he watched a slimy black head emerge.

“Help me, God help me” roared Claire, as the phone barked orders at Tony.

“I can see the baby’s head!”
A huge gush followed and with mighty force, the shoulders and body squelched into Tony’s arms. He obediently followed instructions, scooping mucous from the tiny mouth.
Claire was deathly pale.
The silence was broken by a small gurgling noise as Tony worked on the baby. Minutes later the room was filled with noise as paramedics arrived.

Later as Tony held his son, his eyes danced with excitement.
Claire patted his shoulder “You’ll need a baby Powers after that” she laughed

“Its amazing Claire. I now realise what I’m meant to be”

“a daddy?” she asked
“a midwife” he said

Kinski

cranlleo wrote: »

I thought the short story winner was a worthy winner. The writing was sharp , evocative.The last sentence? Worked for me. The author is a born writer and understood exactly what was needed.

She may have understood what was "needed" by the judges, but if she considers this good story-telling then she doesn't understand the needs of readers.

In conventional narrative, stories are said to be driven by conflict. Typically, this sort of very short story revolves around some emotional, psychological, or intellectual conflict within the main character or between her and a secondary character. In a very short narrative time frame, in a very short text, the protagonist's character will be established, and by the end, despite not very much ostensibly happening, she will change in some subtle, interior way - she may come to some realisation about herself, her relationship, her path in life...whatever.

The winning-author clearly knows all this, but she failed to put it into practice. Instead she wastes the few words available to her on the deliciousness of chips (in other words, on hyperbole), played out in the context of an absolutely conflict-free representation of a father-son relationship.

One couldn't say anything specific about the personalities of the characters in that story, because they don't have personalities. The reader does not "know" them at all. I would say that it reads like an ad, but that would be to give advertisers too little credit - even they would never opt for something so unabashedly twee when selling chips ("Daddy or chips?" "Chips.")

All of this is why the last line does not work. It's just there because she knows the character needs to have some kind of realisation, so she tacks it on at the end, even though it doesn't flow from what she's written. It's a cack-handed attempt to provide some narrative closure to a non-story.

I'm not even personally very fond of this kind of story-telling, but to see such an incompetent example win a prize, and for those criticising it to be dismissed as "begrudgers", is galling.

MOONlit

Chocolate Chip wrote: »

Here is my story so:


Celebrating what truly matters

“Do it, for me” she pleaded, forcing the wad of papers into his pocket.
Tony’s jaw clenched. “Fine Claire. I’ll do it. If it shuts you up” he whispered, slamming the door hard behind him.

She was worse today.

He thought back to the little dance they did on the bathroom floor, laughing as she waved her wand in the air, “pregnant!” Months passed and as his wife’s bump grew, so did the knot in his stomach. Now the deadline was just 5 weeks away.

His pace quickened. Morning was breaking and he did not want to be seen.

Rounding the corner he broke into a run. Feet thumping the concrete, his cheeks reddened thinking of the leaflets in his pocket.

“Handyman. All jobs welcome. Your neighbour, Tony.”

Seven months without work. Claire thought so little of him now. On and on he ran for almost an hour, trying to pound the humiliation into the ground. Eventually he had to stop, bending over, clutching his sides and gasping for breath.
When his heartbeat settled, he straightened himself up and began the long walk home. His shoulders were visibly lighter by the time he got there, his head felt clearer now and he knew exactly what to do.
He gingerly pushed open the door he had almost de-hinged just three hours earlier.
“Claire. I’m really sor”

“Help! TONY! HELP!”

Thundering up the stairs, he knew something was wrong. Heart jolting as he followed the red trail to the bathroom, he found Claire crouched in a pool of watery blood, yelping in pain.

Lifting her carefully, he carried her to their bed and dialled 999. He helped remove her wet pyjama bottoms while relaying their address.

Then squeezing her hand reassuringly, he switched the phone to loudspeaker.

“Is this her first child?” asked the voice
“no, it’s her husband.....”

“Aaaagggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!” Claire screamed and threw herself violently back onto the pillows. Tony’s eyes widened as he watched a slimy black head emerge.

“Help me, God help me” roared Claire, as the phone barked orders at Tony.

“I can see the baby’s head!”
A huge gush followed and with mighty force, the shoulders and body squelched into Tony’s arms. He obediently followed instructions, scooping mucous from the tiny mouth.
Claire was deathly pale.
The silence was broken by a small gurgling noise as Tony worked on the baby. Minutes later the room was filled with noise as paramedics arrived.

Later as Tony held his son, his eyes danced with excitement.
Claire patted his shoulder “You’ll need a baby Powers after that” she laughed

“Its amazing Claire. I now realise what I’m meant to be”

“a daddy?” she asked
“a midwife” he said

Thank you for posting your story. I really enjoyed it and its great fun and charming. You should certainly send it on. Womens magazines will grab yoru story. And congrats on achieving that while staying firmly within the bounderies given.

Madammoiselle

http://www.scribd.com/TinaScribbles/d/95469792-Celebrating-What-Truly-Matters

kieslowski

Ah Madamoiselle, you'd have done well in that competition if you'd spotted the mistake in the first sentence! You let your thoughts wander surely?

Madammoiselle

kieslowski wrote: »

Ah Madamoiselle, you'd have done well in that competition if you'd spotted the mistake in the first sentence! You let your thoughts wander surely?

Hahaha, Oooooooooopsy!

kilrush claire

Thank you Kinski, that was well said.

Whelpling

For a short story competition with a single prize, comment is sure heated!

Anyway - I really enjoyed the winning story. It was obviously a snapshot of a memory, which is fine. Regardless of what "flash fiction 101" might tell you, there really is no prescribed ANYTHING for flash fiction. Really really.

The winner read the brief, understood it, gauged what would work best within the permitted parameters, and managed to write a really nice piece that obviously caught the judges' eyes.

Hard cheese, everyone else.