New to Coarse Fishing

CoarseForTench

Hello All, I'm New to coarse Fishing (Only started getting my gear a week ago) And I'm just wondering will some of you guys help me on my problems?

I'll start with what I have. I have a 9Ft Spinning rod, A reel, a net, Some stick Floats, Size 4 Swivel, Stand and that's basically it.

I'm planning on going to the grand canal to fish for Perch, Tench and Roach.
I know to get a spool, 5lb line, Hooks, AAA Shot weights To keep the float in line, No.8 Shot weights, Maggots etc

What I want to know is, What Size hook should I get for tench, perch and roach? Is there anything else I need to know or get? Do I need to put a swivel Onto the Waggler rig? How deep is the grand canal normally? And for how deep it is, How far do I put the No.8 Shot weights apart and how many do I put onto the line?

Thanks

CoarseForTench

Anyone want to help?

bitemybanger

Hi there.

Many anglers cut thier teeth on the miles of canal systems all over the country.
It's a great way to start with basic tackle and methods.
Perch and Roach would be the easiest and most common species for a beginner to catch.

A spinning rod isn't ideal for waggler fishing, not because it's impossible but for for the reason it will damage fish when hooked.

3-5lb line, stick float/waggler, size 14,16 or 18 hook fished near the bottom.
Using ground bait will greatly inhance your catch rate but try not to over feed.
2-3 balls at the start of the session and loose feed a few maggots every few minute and you will catch.

It's a good idea to plumb for depth before you start fishing.
How you do this is set up as normal and instead of tying your hook on tie in a small bomb weight. When you cast your float will sink so keep sliding the float up the line a few inches at a time until you can see the tip of your float I'm the water, you then know you have the right depth, cut the weight off a couple of inches above the bomb weight and tie on a hook.
This should get you better quality fish.

I'm not a coarse expert but hope this helps.

sickpuppy

The thing with size 16 18 hooks is how to tie them?
I think a spade end hook gives better presentation but i dont know how to tie them.

You can buy a set up where the float lead shot and hook are pre tied which is very handy you just tie the float onto your line im not sure of its depth adjustable.

Also you will need a disgorger its along straw like thing you slide down line for deepish hooked fishand removes the hook but be gentle.

Never caught a Tench seen a guy catch 3 in 2 hours years ago on the river suck lovely looking fish he was a bit of an expert though.

Google would shop a wealth of information for you good luck and report back.

CoarseForTench

Thanks a lot, VERY VERY Helpful, Anyone else want to help? Again, Thanks

By the way, What do you mean by 'Cut their teeth'?

Would I be better off using BB's or AAA's as a locking bulk?

After I throw the ball of ground bait in, Do I cast just before where I threw it in to let the hooked bait flow down towards the ground bait or do I cast the hooked bait directly at where I threw in the ground bait?

What size ground bait balls do I throw in?

If the waters too deep or to shallow, Do you adjust the float or the shots?

By the way lads, I don't plan on using a feeder, I'll throw the balls of ground bait in of course but on my rig, I'm only going to be using 2 maggots per turn

bitemybanger

CoarseForTench wrote: »

Thanks a lot, VERY VERY Helpful, Anyone else want to help? Again, Thanks


By the way, What do you mean by 'Cut their teeth'?

It's just a saying for starting off:D


Would I be better off using BB's or AAA's as a locking bulk?

By locking bulk I presume you mean to lock the float in place?
I usually just two BBs, one either side of the float and use smaller and smaller shot the closer to the hook you get, this will give the maggots a more natural sinking speed and can make fish take on the drop.


After I throw the ball of ground bait in, Do I cast just before where I threw it in to let the hooked bait flow down towards the ground bait or do I cast the hooked bait directly at where I threw in the ground bait?

As close to where they go in as you can get.
Cast over where your ground bait is and drag your rig into place


What size ground bait balls do I throw in?

Smaller than a tennis ball, bigger than a golf ball

If the waters too deep or to shallow, Do you adjust the float or the shots?

If the water is very deep (which it shouldnt on a cananl) just slide the float and the 2 BBs up the line until you reach the right depth

By the way lads, I don't plan on using a feeder, I'll throw the balls of ground bait in of course but on my rig, I'm only going to be using 2 maggots per turn

Feeder fishing isn't really suited for a canal, it's nearly all different methods of float fishing.

CoarseForTench

Thanks

So I got my Ground bait, size 14 Hooks, Stick floats, Disgorger, 3lb Line, I asked For No.8 shot weights but the guy gave me AAA's, Now the thing is, I won't be going back up to Dublin just for some shot weights but I do have a small selection of shot weights of my own, I have AAA's, BB's, 4's 1's and a smaller bunch of shot weights that are also labeled as 'No.4', What I want to know is what other shot weights (From the selection above) Could I use on my rig/trace? I was going to use the FIRST rig on this page, Here's the link: http://www.fishingmagic.com/features/rigs/float_fishing_rigs/14455-the-basic-waggler-rig.html But after the locking bulk of AAA's it says to have No.8 shot weights. Do any one know another waggler rig I could use that uses the same shot weights of my selection above on a canal?

Again thanks

Also, Is there a difference between (Just as an example) 'No.4' and '4' shot weights? The AAA's the guy gave me also said '0.8gs', Does that mean 'No.8s' or just 0.8gs?

Super-Rush

The ideal way to present your rig when using is to use two larger shot either side of the float to lock it in place and to add weight for casting, and the smaller shot is placed down the line towards the hook to make the bait fall slowly and naturally through the water.

If you don't have no 8 shot then the best thing to do is to use the smallest shot you have further down the line. You won't have to use as many as they are going to weigh more than the no 8's, so the ideal thing to do is to put one of the shot about 4 inches from the float and the next one about 2-3 inches from that and if thats enough shot to sink the float to the required level then you're set. The idea will be to leave as much space between the last shot and the hook as possible to try and get natural presentation. The closest i would go to the hook with a shot as large as a no 4 would be 6 to 8 inches.

The AAA weigh 0.8 of a gram, thats why you're seeing the 0.8 on the box. The best thing to do is to get a box of mixed shot going from SSG to no 8. If you wanted you could use a stick float instead of a waggler. Something with 4 or 6 no 4's in weight would be ideal for a canal.

I would also suggest using a size 16 to 18 hook rather than a 14 if you are using maggots. Use the 14 if you are going to use bigger baits like corn, worm or bread.

Spade end hooks will give you much better presentation. You can buy hook tying machines that come with instructions on how to use them, or you can buy packs of ready tied hook lengths.

CoarseForTench

Super-Rush wrote: »

The ideal way to present your rig when using is to use two larger shot either side of the float to lock it in place and to add weight for casting, and the smaller shot is placed down the line towards the hook to make the bait fall slowly and naturally through the water.

If you don't have no 8 shot then the best thing to do is to use the smallest shot you have further down the line. You won't have to use as many as they are going to weigh more than the no 8's, so the ideal thing to do is to put one of the shot about 4 inches from the float and the next one about 2-3 inches from that and if thats enough shot to sink the float to the required level then you're set. The idea will be to leave as much space between the last shot and the hook as possible to try and get natural presentation. The closest i would go to the hook with a shot as large as a no 4 would be 6 to 8 inches.

The AAA weigh 0.8 of a gram, thats why you're seeing the 0.8 on the box. The best thing to do is to get a box of mixed shot going from SSG to no 8. If you wanted you could use a stick float instead of a waggler. Something with 4 or 6 no 4's in weight would be ideal for a canal.

I would also suggest using a size 16 to 18 hook rather than a 14 if you are using maggots. Use the 14 if you are going to use bigger baits like corn, worm or bread.

Spade end hooks will give you much better presentation. You can buy hook tying machines that come with instructions on how to use them, or you can buy packs of ready tied hook lengths.

Thanks

COYW

CoarseForTench wrote: »

What size ground bait balls do I throw in?

Personally, I start off by throwing in 2 large balls of ground bait (tennis ball sized) when I arrive, before setting up my rig. As I fish, I throw in a golf ball sized amount every now and then.

Also, if you are looking to fish for tench, look for areas in your canal with lilypads and you will need to fish off the bottom. Dawn or dusk is by far the best time to catch them.

CoarseForTench

Thank you,

I couldn't get a spare spool for my reel that originally came with the rod I'm using but then I remembered that I have a spare reel from a rod that I had that broke a few years ago. That reel has an extra spool and what I'm wondering is could I use that reel from the broken rod or Should I take the line off my new rods reel and put the new line on? Also, Do Reels need to be a certain weight for a rod or can any rod have any reel?

CoarseForTench

Anyone?

uch

Weight is up to you It all depends on the balance your happy with, just bear in mind that you'll be holding it for up to 6 - 8 hours at a time and your wrist might get knackered. As regards tackle you're better off going into your local tackle shop and get their advice, they'll be the handy local experts to pick their brains, as regards groundbait, well it depends on many different factors, is the water on the Canal coloured or clear?, is there a tow on the water ? what species are you targeting ? What hook baits are you using ? Again ask your local tackle dealer, as regards hooks for the Canal, personally I use size 20 Red hooks for Roach and small silver fish, if I'm fishing for Tench I'll use a size 16 forged for extra strenght, when you are in the tackle shop I would suggest that you buy a Matchman HookTier for tieing Spade end hooks, for me these are the only hooks I use as the Presentation of the Hookbait is far superior than if you use eyed hooks (which have there place, but not on a canal). As regards a rod, most tackle dealers will have descent quality second hand rods that wont break the bank, I'd suggest a 13' foot waggler rod for the canal, If you can get a Match Rod cheap all the better but they are far more expensive, with regard to Shotting your float, I'd put about 70% of float capacity bulked around the float, then I'd experiment with the rest down the line until you find what the fish are least spooked by. Also get yourself a few Plummets so you can plumb the depth of the water and know exactly where you are fishing, there's no point in guessing as it varies greatly for day to day where the fish are happiest to feed, for example today they might feed a foot from the bottom and tomorrow in the same swim you might need to fish 8" inches overdepth to buy a bite, be flexible with your approach and don't be affraid to change things and experiment to see what methods work best for you, and finally dont forget to enjoy yourself.

uch

Just thinking, if you want some instructional DVD's there's some great one's for 3 quid sterling on Bob Nudds website, you can't learn from better.

http://bobnudd.com/shop/


Here's one for Canal Waggler

CoarseForTench

uch wrote: »

Weight is up to you It all depends on the balance your happy with, just bear in mind that you'll be holding it for up to 6 - 8 hours at a time and your wrist might get knackered. As regards tackle you're better off going into your local tackle shop and get their advice, they'll be the handy local experts to pick their brains, as regards groundbait, well it depends on many different factors, is the water on the Canal coloured or clear?, is there a tow on the water ? what species are you targeting ? What hook baits are you using ? Again ask your local tackle dealer, as regards hooks for the Canal, personally I use size 20 Red hooks for Roach and small silver fish, if I'm fishing for Tench I'll use a size 16 forged for extra strenght, when you are in the tackle shop I would suggest that you buy a Matchman HookTier for tieing Spade end hooks, for me these are the only hooks I use as the Presentation of the Hookbait is far superior than if you use eyed hooks (which have there place, but not on a canal). As regards a rod, most tackle dealers will have descent quality second hand rods that wont break the bank, I'd suggest a 13' foot waggler rod for the canal, If you can get a Match Rod cheap all the better but they are far more expensive, with regard to Shotting your float, I'd put about 70% of float capacity bulked around the float, then I'd experiment with the rest down the line until you find what the fish are least spooked by. Also get yourself a few Plummets so you can plumb the depth of the water and know exactly where you are fishing, there's no point in guessing as it varies greatly for day to day where the fish are happiest to feed, for example today they might feed a foot from the bottom and tomorrow in the same swim you might need to fish 8" inches overdepth to buy a bite, be flexible with your approach and don't be affraid to change things and experiment to see what methods work best for you, and finally dont forget to enjoy yourself.

Thanks

I have a cheap spare 10ft feeder and the old reel i was going to use is a size 30, Would that be good enough?

uch

What make and model reel is it?

CoarseForTench

uch wrote: »

What make and model reel is it?

To be honest (I hate saying this) I bought it in Argos a few years back when I first got into fishing. It doesn't say what model it is because... well, It's cheap (I think) but it's brand name is 'Keenets'


I noticed on my floats it says '2No4', Does that mean I have to put 2 No.4 shot weights one on each side?

Also, When I start fishing, How do I know If the hook has hit the bottom when I'm checking for the depth?

Sorry if these questions seem a bit to much, There's just so much to know about coarse fishing

uch

CoarseForTench wrote: »

To be honest (I hate saying this) I bought it in Argos a few years back when I first got into fishing. It doesn't say what model it is because... well, It's cheap (I think) but it's brand name is 'Keenets'

Also, I noticed on my floats it says '2No4', Does that mean I have to put 2 No.4 shot weights one on each side

Keenets stuff isn't all that bad, just stay away from telescopic rods as IMO they are sh1te, and the Lidl/Aldi stuff also.
as regards the float, yep thats what it means but this might be a little difficult to cast accurately for a beginner, I'd suggest maybe a 2xBB which is just 2 BB shot in total. Make sure you filll the reel to the edge of the spool with good quality Mainline (2 - 3lb Maxima I'd recommend) and you'll cast with less effort and more accuracy.

uch

Have a look at the DVD's I mentioned earlier, they are excellent, as regards Questions, well we all had to start at the beginning and had to ask questions, if your unsure just ask here and most will gladly help if they can.

CoarseForTench

uch wrote: »

Have a look at the DVD's I mentioned earlier, they are excellent, as regards Questions, well we all had to start at the beginning and had to ask questions, if your unsure just ask here and most will gladly help if they can.

Thanks

Questions:

How far apart do you put the 2 locking bulk shot weights from the float?

What length of line would I want to take out for the rig?

How far apart would I want to put the shot weights on an average depth of water on the canal, 4, 2 or 6 inches?

How far apart would I want to put the shot weights from the float to the No.8's and from the hook to the No.8's, 4 or 6 inches?

How do you know when the hook has hit the bottom when checking for depth?

Is the thing you want for checking depth is to have the hook hit/Lay on the bottom?

How much water do you add to the ground bait?

I'm going to do out a little thing here just So I don't forget something.

Tackle: 10Ft Feeder rod, Size 30 Reel, 3lb line, Stick float, Size 14 hooks, No.4 and No.8 Shot weights.

Rig (Starting from the top and down): Waggler, 2 No.4 shot weights, one on each side, No.8 Shot weight, No.8 Shot weight and No.8 Shot weight (3 In total) going down the line and finally a size 14 hook

Bait: Maggots, Sweetcorn and 'Canal' Ground bait mixed with maggots

If there is anything (Important) I'm forgetting will tell me? Thanks

Again, Sorry about the load of questions, I guess I need to know before I go out and do it.

And yes, I'll check out those dvds you told me about

Super-Rush

How far apart do you put the 2 locking bulk shot weights from the float?

Your float shouldn't move. Each shot should touch the float.

What length of line would I want to take out for the rig?

That all depends on the dept of the canal and how deep or shallow you want to fish.

How far apart would I want to put the shot weights on an average depth of water on the canal, 4, 2 or 6 inches?

If you are using for example a 2BB waggler in say 6 feet of water, have two no 8's locking the float. Then use three or four bulk shot half way between the float and the hook. Then a dropper shot about 6-8 inches from the hook.

How far apart would I want to put the shot weights from the float to the No.8's and from the hook to the No.8's, 4 or 6 inches?

See above.

How do you know when the hook has hit the bottom when checking for depth?

When plumbing the dept you will clip a plummet or a large shot to your hook. The weight of the plummet will drag the float under the water if you haven't set your rig deep enough, or lay flat on the surface if you have set it too deep. Keep adjusting the dept by either pulling the float further away from or closer to the hook. When the tip of the float is just about visible on the surface then you have hit dead dept. Remove the plummet and add your shot until the float is set the same as it was when you were checking the dept. Finding the dept is the most important part of the day and its a good idea to keep checking to see if you are still fishing the same dept throughout the day as the foat can be moved when you are playing a fish.

Is the thing you want for checking depth is to have the hook hit/Lay on the bottom?

See above.

How much water do you add to the ground bait?

After you have found the dept, then you mix your groundbait. If you are just using one type or a combination of different groundbaits, the first thing to do is to put the mix dry in a bowl and give it a mix to remove any lumps.

When you've done that, get your water. Never ever use tap or bottle water, as it contains nutrients that takes away from the smell and taste of the groundbait. Always use canal, lake or river water. Start by adding small bits of water as you mix. The consistency you're looking for is, for the groundbait to form as a ball in your hand with a light squeeze. It needs to be solid enough to be thrown without breaking up in mid air, and soft enough that it starts to break up within minutes of hitting the water.

As you add the water you will know when you've gotten the right consistency. When you reach it, leave the mix to stand for about 20 minutes and check it again. More often than not you will have to add some more water as it will have soaked up what you added earlier. You might also need to do this during the day as it can dry out. The best way to avoid this is to keep the mix covered with a damp towel. Always use a round bowl to mix it in, and the more you move your hands through it, the more air it gets and the better it will work. Just be careful to not add too much water as you can't take it out again.

Make a smallish ball and drop it in the water a couple of feet from the bank before you bait up your area to see how its working. If it floats on the surface then you need to add more water. Only add samples of hookbait after you've mixed it with the water and you've reached the perfect consistency. A couple if handfuls of maggots and a handful of corn is perfect.

CoarseForTench

Super-Rush wrote: »

Your float shouldn't move. Each shot should touch the float.


That all depends on the dept of the canal and how deep or shallow you want to fish.



If you are using for example a 2BB waggler in say 6 feet of water, have two no 8's locking the float. Then use three or four bulk shot half way between the float and the hook. Then a dropper shot about 6-8 inches from the hook.


See above.



When plumbing the dept you will clip a plummet or a large shot to your hook. The weight of the plummet will drag the float under the water if you haven't set your rig deep enough, or lay flat on the surface if you have set it too deep. Keep adjusting the dept by either pulling the float further away from or closer to the hook. When the tip of the float is just about visible on the surface then you have hit dead dept. Remove the plummet and add your shot until the float is set the same as it was when you were checking the dept. Finding the dept is the most important part of the day and its a good idea to keep checking to see if you are still fishing the same dept throughout the day as the foat can be moved when you are playing a fish.

See above.


After you have found the dept, then you mix your groundbait. If you are just using one type or a combination of different groundbaits, the first thing to do is to put the mix dry in a bowl and give it a mix to remove any lumps.

When you've done that, get your water. Never ever use tap or bottle water, as it contains nutrients that takes away from the smell and taste of the groundbait. Always use canal, lake or river water. Start by adding small bits of water as you mix. The consistency you're looking for is, for the groundbait to form as a ball in your hand with a light squeeze. It needs to be solid enough to be thrown without breaking up in mid air, and soft enough that it starts to break up within minutes of hitting the water.

As you add the water you will know when you've gotten the right consistency. When you reach it, leave the mix to stand for about 20 minutes and check it again. More often than not you will have to add some more water as it will have soaked up what you added earlier. You might also need to do this during the day as it can dry out. The best way to avoid this is to keep the mix covered with a damp towel. Always use a round bowl to mix it in, and the more you move your hands through it, the more air it gets and the better it will work. Just be careful to not add too much water as you can't take it out again.

Make a smallish ball and drop it in the water a couple of feet from the bank before you bait up your area to see how its working. If it floats on the surface then you need to add more water. Only add samples of hookbait after you've mixed it with the water and you've reached the perfect consistency. A couple if handfuls of maggots and a handful of corn is perfect.

Thank you, Thanks a lot

CoarseForTench

Well I think that's that, I'm out of questions so.... Wish me luck!

I'll come back If I need some help

bitemybanger

Tight lines.
I think if you apply some of the info here and as long as there is fish where your fishing:pac: you should catch.

tin79

Super-Rush wrote: »

Your float shouldn't move. Each shot should touch the float.

I would disagree on this one. If you lock them up tight then the float is essentially clamped upright in the water. When you strike or lift into a bite this will cause the float to be pulled sideways and it will absorb some of the force. Also if you hook a fish and it runs into a snag it will lead to more chance of the float catching or snapping.

If you leave a gap of around 0.75-1cm between the locking shot it will allow the float to "fold" which will aid striking and playing the fish. It will also help make your casts more aerodynamic.

COYW

CoarseForTench wrote: »

Also, When I start fishing, How do I know If the hook has hit the bottom when I'm checking for the depth?

Plumb for depth like the other posters have mentioned. One thing though, if you are fishing off the bottom your float will not have to go under or dip to indicate a bite, particularly if you are fishing for the likes of tench or bream. They feed off the bottom and will lift the bait causing your float to rise out of the water, so keep an eye for this.

uch

tin79 wrote: »

I would disagree on this one. If you lock them up tight then the float is essentially clamped upright in the water. When you strike or lift into a bite this will cause the float to be pulled sideways and it will absorb some of the force. Also if you hook a fish and it runs into a snag it will lead to more chance of the float catching or snapping.

If you leave a gap of around 0.75-1cm between the locking shot it will allow the float to "fold" which will aid striking and playing the fish. It will also help make your casts more aerodynamic.

Yep I'd agree totally with this, also I'd use a float rubber in case conditions change and I need to change to a different float without having to break down the rig..

Super-Rush

tin79 wrote: »

I would disagree on this one. If you lock them up tight then the float is essentially clamped upright in the water. When you strike or lift into a bite this will cause the float to be pulled sideways and it will absorb some of the force. Also if you hook a fish and it runs into a snag it will lead to more chance of the float catching or snapping.

If you leave a gap of around 0.75-1cm between the locking shot it will allow the float to "fold" which will aid striking and playing the fish. It will also help make your casts more aerodynamic.

I've been fishing for almost 20 years and I've never heard of that. You can't leave a gap like that or else your bait will never stay at the correct dept. Not one book, magazine, or dvd will tell you to do this.

tin79

Super-Rush wrote: »

I've been fishing for almost 20 years and I've never heard of that. You can't leave a gap like that or else your bait will never stay at the correct dept. Not one book, magazine, or dvd will tell you to do this.

Of course your bait will stay at the exact depth, there is 5mm play either side of the float and your depth is dictated by the top locking shot anyway. Think about what you have said above, how would that possibly affect the depth your bait is working at.

I have been float fishing 28 years and I have seen it in dozens of magazines, books and DVDs. In fact any good angling author should recommend this. I refer you to the below (one of the references is from Ivan Marks who is one of the best float anglers I have ever known of and another is Bob Nudd):

http://gqsolutions.hubpages.com/hub/Basic-Angling-Techniques-Float-Fishing

http://www.news-reel.com/html/features/features_kickstart_wagglerrigs.htm

http://pleasurefishing.com/html/floatfishing.htm

http://gqsolutions.hubpages.com/hub/Basic-Angling-Techniques-Float-Fishing

http://www.fishingmagic.com/forums/general-fishing/281618-some-fishing-video-reviews.html

http://www.fishingwarehouse.co.uk/Section/Articles/articleinfo.asp?articleid=1346&categoryid=2

http://total-coarse-fishing.dhp.netcopy.co.uk/article/february-1998/21/adapting-to-change

I would go on but there are nearly 8 million hits to the search term "float fishing leave gap locking shot"

tin79

uch wrote: »

Yep I'd agree totally with this, also I'd use a float rubber in case conditions change and I need to change to a different float without having to break down the rig..

Yes i always use a floar rubber too, great little devices

Super-Rush

Like I said, I've never seen it before. I'll try it out over the weekend and see if it makes a difference.