Household Charge Mega-Thread [Part 2] *Poll Reset*

dvpower

Wild Bill wrote: »

Bilge. Based on the latest opinion poll by then the Govt will consist of parties who will abolish this obscenity from the current undemocratic Regime and forgive illegitimate debts.

Don't feel threatened by this fascist Regime - don't pay!

Some of the other parties are against the household charges - none will abolish them once they are in place, nor do the polls show anti charge parties forming the next government.

bgrizzley

c'mon DV you know they'd sell all their grannies for the reins of power, not to mind tear up a E2 tax......

dvpower

bgrizzley wrote: »

c'mon DV you know they'd sell all their grannies for the reins of power, not to mind tear up a E2 tax......

I predict that only the parties without a chance in hell of getting near power will campaign on a platform of repealing the HC in the next GE.

I expect the likes of SF to have at most a bland policy of reviewing it or somesuch.

Its here to stay - people need to get used to that idea.

Biggins

IF accurate - now for the good news :

Irish bishops' palaces are exempt from homes charge

It may have the country’s largest private property portfolio but despite owning thousands of houses, the Catholic Church does not have to pay a cent in household charges.
The Church, which at one point owned or occupied at least 10,700 houses, schools, halls, churches and shops around the country, has an exemption from all property taxes because it is a charity.
With 1,368 parishes in Ireland – many containing several parochial homes and other properties – the Church may be getting off the hook for up to €500,000 a year in Environment Minister Phil Hogan’s new tax, despite its massive wealth and land interests.

Article continues: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2133331/Irish-bishops-palaces-exempt-homes-charge.html#ixzz1sm40HFAu

---

Great news, eh?

Wild Bill

dvpower wrote: »

I expect the likes of SF to have at most a bland policy of reviewing it or somesuch.

They might not abolish all charges but I predict that they'll pledge to forgive all debts associated with the current fee and as the pledge will form such a big part in their election platform they'll make it a condition of entering Government :cool:

(And unlike the current illegitimate Regime they'll stick to their pledges - they'll have observed what happens to parties who don't )

Wild Bill

Wild Bill wrote: »

They might not abolish all charges but I predict that they'll pledge to forgive all debts associated with the current fee and as the pledge will form such a big part in their election platform they'll make it a condition of entering Government :cool:

(And unlike the current illegitimate Regime they'll stick to their pledges - they'll have observed what happens to parties who don't )

And I say this, btw, in the full knowledge that SF's opposition to this illegitimate tax noticeably lacks the passion on the issue that we see from the Socialists and Independents of various hues.

That's 'cos they don't oppose charges per se - and just might find themselves in Government some day not too distant - after the whole euro/bailout scam has collapsed.

jumpguy

black francis wrote: »

Increasing income tax effectively reduces the incentive for people to work. Not the best idea to encourage people to come off social welfare if work becomes available.

If people have to be "encouraged" to come off social welfare and start working then they are receiving too much social welfare than they need in whatever circumstance they're in. It's a pity social welfare isn't decided on a case-by-case basis (I understand that'd be a massive logistical undertaking.)

Voodoo_rasher

Wild Bill wrote: »

Bilge. Based on the latest opinion poll by then the Govt will consist of parties who will abolish this obscenity from the current undemocratic Regime and forgive illegitimate debts.

Don't feel threatened by this fascist Regime - don't pay!

the RC Church is

exempt from paying the household charge on its 10,000 properties:- palaces,

parish priest houses, convents, the works.

http://www.irishcentral.com/news/Catholic-Church-escapes-controversial-new-Irish-household-charge-148429845.html.

Has any Irish newspaper carried this?

dxhound2005

Wild Bill wrote: »

They might not abolish all charges but I predict that they'll pledge to forgive all debts associated with the current fee and as the pledge will form such a big part in their election platform they'll make it a condition of entering Government :cool:

(And unlike the current illegitimate Regime they'll stick to their pledges - they'll have observed what happens to parties who don't )

It would depend on whether the current government has managed to regain economic sovereignty. No such arrangement would be allowed if the purse strings were still in the control of outsiders. Sinn Fein wants to abolish the property tax in the North (at least according to their Wexford branch) but they can't do so because their budget depends on English money.

http://wexfordsinnfeinnews.blogspot.com/2012/04/no-mandate-for-household-tax-to-pay.html

A property tax does exist in the six counties. It is something that the Northern Assembly inherited from direct British Rule, and unfortunately, due to tax varying powers and fiscal levers being controlled by the British Exchequer, the assembly does not yet have the power to abolish a charge that Sinn Féin does not agree with.

Wild Bill

dxhound2005 wrote: »

It would depend on whether the current government has managed to regain economic sovereignty.

We have economic sovereignty, NI does not. Period.

This bull**** about "lost sovereignty" is just that - bull****. We (or rather the illegitimate regime currently in place) have chosen to repay German bankers' gambling debts; we have chosen to stick with he Croke Park Agreement and thus make a quick restoration of a primary budget surplus impossible.

This claim of "lost economic sovereignty" the political slogan of the establishment cowards who can't face the reality that their grossly excessive wages and pensions are toast.

The years of reality-denial since the crash has postponed the pain that could have been over and done with now had the fantasy lo-la-land of the "bailout" to rescue the doomed euro not been embraced by our criminal political establishment.

When the scam collapses - as it must - (the number don't add up - really simple reality here) - then after the collapse anyone who imagines the political landscape will facilite the collection of house-tax debts seriously isn't clued-in to what lies ahead of all of us :mad:

dvpower

Voodoo_rasher wrote: »

Constitution is an obscenity in itself. according to this, the RC Church is

exempt from paying the household charge on its 10,000 properties:- palaces,

parish priest houses, convents, the works.

http://www.irishcentral.com/news/Catholic-Church-escapes-controversial-new-Irish-household-charge-148429845.html.

Has any Irish newspaper carried this?

What has this to do with the constitution, and why are you singling out the RCC? - all registered charities are exempt.

A bit of populism maybe?

dvpower

Voodoo_rasher wrote: »

Oh its damn easy to single them out - everyone else is liable except them lol ).
Ah, so the RC is a charity, no kidding. They have it EVERY Way. Why should the Church get away with masquerading as a Charity?
What is your loyalty to the church based on???
Oh, don't bother answering; you're incapable of thinking in a different light.

The response I was looking for was "Thanks for setting me straight - I was jumping to unreasonable conclusions".

But I guess, for you, jumping to unreasonable conclusions is a hard habit to break.

zenno

There's still a lot of people that haven't payed this household charge but it's unfortunate that so many did as they always bend over which is a shame. If no one payed it then it would not be an issue now.

:pac:

Frank Black

Wild Bill wrote: »

They might not abolish all charges but I predict that they'll pledge to forgive all debts associated with the current fee and as the pledge will form such a big part in their election platform they'll make it a condition of entering Government :cool:

(And unlike the current illegitimate Regime they'll stick to their pledges - they'll have observed what happens to parties who don't )

Over 920,000 households have registered up to yesterday http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2012/0424/1224315103869.html

This figure will be substantially higher come the next election.
If you imagine any serious political party will pledge to write off the debts of the tax dodgers, you are living in la-la land.
It would be political suicide.
The dodgers will represent a very small minority of the electorate, and no party will frame election promises around them. They'd be more likely to gain electoral advantage by pledging to get tough on the freeloaders who believe they can avoid contributing to our econnomic recovery.

Face it lads, ye've lost the argument.
Time to pay up and re-join polite society.

Not you obviously Bill - you can continue to reside in la-la land. I'm sure it's very nice there.

I wouldn't call about 35% "a very small minority".

dvpower

Deleted User wrote: »

I wouldn't call about 35% "a very small minority".

35% ?


Edit: Now I understand. its a sizable minority, but nowhere near enough to defeat the charge. The NO side need to face this fact and move on to the next campaign.

The numbers on the NO side are only getting smaller.

Frank Black

Deleted User wrote: »

I wouldn't call about 35% "a very small minority".

Suggest you read my actual post - I said by the time of the next election - if you think that compliance rates are not going to increase between now and then, i'd suggest you are mistaken.

Voodoo_rasher

dvpower wrote: »

The response I was looking for was "Thanks for setting me straight - I was jumping to unreasonable conclusions".
.

dvpower: I have rescinded my post in retrospect having 'followed through too far.
apologies and thanks.

mikom

black francis wrote: »

Over 920,000 households have registered up to yesterday http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2012/0424/1224315103869.html

This figure will be substantially higher come the next election.
If you imagine any serious political party will pledge to write off the debts of the tax dodgers, you are living in la-la land.
It would be political suicide.
The dodgers will represent a very small minority of the electorate, and no party will frame election promises around them. They'd be more likely to gain electoral advantage by pledging to get tough on the freeloaders who believe they can avoid contributing to our econnomic recovery.

Face it lads, ye've lost the argument.
Time to pay up and re-join polite society.

Not you obviously Bill - you can continue to reside in la-la land. I'm sure it's very nice there.

Wait till the first jump in the charge/tax, probably at the next budget, then watch the number of those refusing to pay increase.
The whole thing will kick off again.

Frank Black

mikom wrote: »

Wait till the first jump in the charge/tax, probably at the next budget, then watch the number of those refusing to pay increase.
The whole thing will kick off again.

Mystic Meg strikes again.

mikom

black francis wrote: »

Mystic Meg strikes again.

Apologies for not being as close to the source as yourself............

Frank Black

mikom wrote: »

Apologies for not being as close to the source as yourself............

No apologies necessary, we're not all blessed with the ability to form reasonable predicitions on future events based on logical application.

I'm sure you and Bill are probably much happier than those of us who are.

mikom

black francis wrote: »

No apologies necessary, we're not all blessed with the ability to form reasonable predicitions on future events based on logical application.

Reads like a quote from a FG Spock.

Wild Bill

black francis wrote: »

Over 920,000 households...yada yada blah blah

You really don't have a clue what's coming re-the euro-zone looney "austerity" policy, do you?

Political suicide? What do you think the Labour Party have just committed

Wild Bill

black francis wrote: »

If you imagine any serious political party will pledge to write off the debts of the tax dodgers, you are living in la-la land.

And actually, I know, not "imagine", that one very serious political party, SF, will do exactly that.

And those guys don't do "political suicide" - unlike the Labour Party, for example. :cool:

Frank Black

Wild Bill wrote: »

You really don't have a clue what's coming re-the euro-zone looney "austerity" policy, do you?

Hmmm, let me guess.


Nazis?

Hijpo

lol

have to laugh at the Yes side with there predicted figures, everytime they forcast that a percentage will be registerd by a certain time and it doesnt happen they push it out another couple of months. First it was -% by the 31st that didnt happen so then it was -% when they open all the snail mail that didnt happen so now its -% by the next election.

dvpower

Hijpo wrote: »

lol

have to laugh at the Yes side with there predicted figures, everytime they forcast that a percentage will be registerd by a certain time and it doesnt happen they push it out another couple of months. First it was -% by the 31st that didnt happen so then it was -% when they open all the snail mail that didnt happen so now its -% by the next election.

Take a look back at the various predictions that were made very early in the thread (actually in the part one of the thread). It is the NO side predictions that were way off the mark. It is the NO side that tried to rubbish the figures when they weren't looking favourable (the official figures are lies, the numbers include high numbers of exempted households etc).

The current figures stand at about 65% compliance without any enforcement measures at all so far. The NO campaign has largely fizzled out. The survival of the tax is a certainty.

Frank Black

Hijpo wrote: »

lol

have to laugh at the Yes side with there predicted figures, everytime they forcast that a percentage will be registerd by a certain time and it doesnt happen they push it out another couple of months. First it was -% by the 31st that didnt happen so then it was -% when they open all the snail mail that didnt happen so now its -% by the next election.

You're thinking of the 'no' side surely?

Led by Mystic Mikom. Mr 25%

Hijpo

dvpower wrote: »

The current figures stand at about 65% compliance without any enforcement measures at all so far.

lol enforcment!!

The threats of enforcment, thats enough to make all the poor oul pensioners cave, which is probably why all the figures are going up after opening the mail. Seen as most pensioners dont have access to computers or know how to use one thats probably where all the snail mail is coming from. Now when these pensioners pass away, who picks up the drop in tax figuers?

"The NO campaign has largely fizzled out. The survival of the tax is a certainty."

Jesus DV, that reads like propaganda from a war campaign.

What is an "open space" by the way? just reading here that thats one of the services the government are claiming the tax is for.

If the property tax is also going to fund these services in place of the household charge, why should people pay more than others if they use the same facilities? Wont there be a protest from the upper classes when they will pay more because of there bigger house?