Household Charge Mega-Thread [Part 2] *Poll Reset*

gerryo777

dvpower wrote: »

The NO campaign has largely fizzled out. The survival of the tax is a certainty.

You must be really happy that your FG/Lab buddies have managed to bully some people into paying a discriminatory tax.

A tax on the roof over peoples head to pay for a bloated and inefficient local authority system.

Makes one proud to be Irish.

BTW didn't pay/won't pay and pretty much staying off this thread now because I've better things to be doing with my time......

gerryo777

mikom wrote: »

Reads like a quote from a FG Spock.

Na, she's a fool, worse than that a fool who denies who she works for!

lugha

gerryo777 wrote: »

You must be really happy that your FG/Lab buddies have managed to bully some people into paying a discriminatory tax.

Ah, still with the “discriminatory” sound bite Gerry! You still haven’t explained to us why you are content to pay the discriminatory motor tax? You irrelevantly pointed out a rather impractical way (for many) of avoiding this tax (have no car!) but seemingly this particular discrimination hasn’t offended you so much as to spur you to exercise this option?

Truth is, your excuse is a croc. You decided that you didn’t want to pay your share and subsequently looked for (and failed to find!) a more noble principle to justify your stance.

But I suppose you can’t really change tact now? :P

dvpower

gerryo777 wrote: »

BTW didn't pay/won't pay and pretty much staying off this thread now because I've better things to be doing with my time......

Ive been suggesting for a few weeks now that the NO campaigners, having failed to defeat the HHC, should refocus on something else.
Good to see my advise being heeded.

dxhound2005

gerryo777 wrote: »

You must be really happy that your FG/Lab buddies have managed to bully some people into paying a discriminatory tax.

A tax on the roof over peoples head to pay for a bloated and inefficient local authority system.

Makes one proud to be Irish.

BTW didn't pay/won't pay and pretty much staying off this thread now because I've better things to be doing with my time......

I think inclusive would be more a appropriate description instead of discriminatory since it takes in 1.6 million private householders and their families. I would have thought the Socialist Party and the UL would have welcomed the positive discrimination in favour of the minority who do not have to pay.

gerryo777

Thought as much.
I gave it a break for a couple of weeks and the same 3 geniuses are still bleating on about it.
Even alastair gave it up.

Enjoy your self righteous self's!!

Ciao.

Izzy Skint

lugha wrote: »

Ah, still with the “discriminatory” sound bite Gerry! You still haven’t explained to us why you are content to pay the discriminatory motor tax? You irrelevantly pointed out a rather impractical way (for many) of avoiding this tax (have no car!) but seemingly this particular discrimination hasn’t offended you so much as to spur you to exercise this option?

Truth is, your excuse is a croc. You decided that you didn’t want to pay your share and subsequently looked for (and failed to find!) a more noble principle to justify your stance.

But I suppose you can’t really change tact now? :P

LUGHA, you are probably right about the motor tax, perhaps we should all act according to our principles and give up our cars, and then we loose our jobs , we could then claim the dole....that would really help the economic situation....OR, maybe we should all just sell our negative equity homes and look for LA housing...we would then be exempt from all these taxes and there would be no disagreements on this board ....good plan eh?
DXhound, your quote "the positive discrimination in favour of the minority who do not have to pay.".....who were you referring to "the most vulnerable" who do not have to pay ANYTHING ?
DV, the no side have lost ?....what f*cking planet are you from?....for weeks we had Hogan threatening the irish people with court, fines , tracking us down etc.. and even after all of that only 65% have "paid"...many left it to the last few days and I would guess only paid through fear or to avoid any trouble, and then it was "only €100", what if it was €500 or €1000? which it will be next year, we will see then how many will pay...:D
finally guys, just wanted to say thanks for your input here, without it my opposition to all these charges would never have become so strong....I think you are really in favour of the no side?....keep up the great work
...oh, and give my regards to hauptsturmfuhrer Kenny....sausage sucking Kraut...NO WAY, DON'T PAY !!!!

Hijpo

lugha wrote: »

gerryo777 wrote: »

You must be really happy that your FG/Lab buddies have managed to bully some people into paying a discriminatory tax.

Ah, still with the “discriminatory” sound bite Gerry! You still haven’t explained to us why you are content to pay the discriminatory motor tax? You irrelevantly pointed out a rather impractical way (for many) of avoiding this tax (have no car!) but seemingly this particular discrimination hasn’t offended you so much as to spur you to exercise this option?

Truth is, your excuse is a croc. You decided that you didn’t want to pay your share and subsequently looked for (and failed to find!) a more noble principle to justify your stance.

But I suppose you can’t really change tact now? :P

Just as i thought would happen, another yes campaigner bypassing a post with relevant questions that could do with answering, with complete disregard of the questions posed, looking to divert there honest answer by bringing other irrelavant taxes into question to justify there own silly reasons for others to pay/sign up to extra taxes that will be increased. This thread is becoming all too predicable.

Frank Black

Those most opposed to the charge will be the ones who end up paying the most in penalties and interest.

I'm finding the irony delicious.

lugha

Izzy Skint wrote: »

LUGHA, you are probably right about the motor tax, perhaps we should all act according to our principles and give up our cars, and then we loose our jobs , we could then claim the dole....that would really help the economic situation....OR, maybe we should all just sell our negative equity homes and look for LA housing...we would then be exempt from all these taxes and there would be no disagreements on this board ....good plan eh?

No, a very bad plan. Finally we agree on something! Of course you should have directed that comment to Gerry, it was he who suggested that discriminatory motor tax was different to the discriminatory household charge because you could sell your car. Silly suggestion of course but alas Gerry has now left us so we will never know how he squares that particular circle. :pac:

In any case it is by no means necessary to be rid of your car if you think motor tax is unfair. As with the HHC, and unlike say income tax or VAT which are deducted automatically, the onus is on the motorist to pay the motor tax. They could elect not to pay and face the consequences in law if they are caught, exactly as some are doing with the HHC.

Hijpo wrote: »

Just as i thought would happen, another yes campaigner bypassing a post with relevant questions that could do with answering, with complete disregard of the questions posed, looking to divert there honest answer by bringing other irrelavant taxes into question to justify there own silly reasons for others to pay/sign up to extra taxes that will be increased. This thread is becoming all too predicable.

I’m not sure what relevant question you think has been bypassed?

And other taxes aren’t irrelevant. If someone says they won’t pay this charge because it is discriminatory but are willing to pay other discriminatory taxes then surely that rather undermines their stance on the HHC, wouldn’t you say?

Hijpo

No the fact that people pay the other descriminatory taxes shows people are willing to give the gvmt money and shows that we believe this tax is a bigger heap of ****e than the rest. Its being lied about and shoved down our throats, theres no set expense for it, theres no truth to where it will actually be spent, its a blatant money grabbing operation.

You didnt answer what an "open space" is you also didnt answer where the money will come from when all the pensioners who registerd pass away, there wont be an increase in eligible households so where will the money come from to subside the shortfall. Youd rather skip answering those questions and commet on a bit of gerrys post.

lugha

Hijpo wrote: »

No the fact that people pay the other descriminatory taxes shows people are willing to give the gvmt money and shows that we believe this tax is a bigger heap of ****e than the rest

I am not sure what point you are making here? Do you think all taxes / charges are a “heap of ****e”? Contrary to some amusing suggestion from some on the no side, none of us are “tax lovers”.

But we do understand that when you have a multi-billion euro deficit then you have to deal with it. And you deal with it by some combination or new / higher taxes and cutbacks on public spending. What alternative would you propose?

Hijpo wrote: »

Its being lied about and shoved down our throats, theres no set expense for it, theres no truth to where it will actually be spent, its a blatant money grabbing operation.

Again, I am not sure what point you are making here? What you call “blatant money grabbing” I see as a painful but necessary step to bring our budget deficit under control. And again I ask, what would your solution be?

Hijpo wrote: »

You didnt answer what an "open space" is you also didnt answer where the money will come from when all the pensioners who registerd pass away, there wont be an increase in eligible households so where will the money come from to subside the shortfall.

Youd rather skip answering those questions and commet on a bit of gerrys post.

I responded to Gerry’s post, who didn’t ask any of those question.

Hijpo

Still havent answerd the questions, its like seeing a td on vincent brown.

lugha

Hijpo wrote: »

Still havent answerd the questions, its like seeing a td on vincent brown.

What question in Gerry's post have I not answer? (perhaps you are confusing his post with some other one?)

If you would care to copy and paste the questions that I seem to have missed I will have a go at answering them?

Frank Black

Hijpo wrote: »

Still havent answerd the questions, its like seeing a td on vincent brown.

Hijpo wrote: »

You didnt answer what an "open space" is .

In planning terminology, an 'open space' is usually defined as any open peice of land that is underdeveloped (i.e. has no buildings on it) and is open to the public.
It can include parks, community gardens, cemetaries, schoolyards, playgrounds, public plazas etc...

A quick google search would get you this info quicker than harranging other posters to provide it for you.

Hijpo wrote: »

you also didnt answer where the money will come from when all the pensioners who registerd pass away, there wont be an increase in eligible households so where will the money come from to subside the shortfall. .

It's called a birth rate - Ireland is lucky enough to have a positive one which is the envy of many Europoean countries.
People die - others are born, they eventually buy houses.

Hijpo

black francis wrote: »

In planning terminology, an 'open space' is usually defined as any open peice of land that is underdeveloped (i.e. has no buildings on it) and is open to the public.
It can include parks, community gardens, cemetaries, schoolyards, playgrounds, public plazas etc...

The government must class it as something else seen as they have "planning and development; public parks;open spaces" listed seperatly
why the need to list it 3 times under different names?

black francis wrote: »

A quick google search would get you this info quicker than harranging other posters to provide it for you.

:rolleyes:
Because id like your opinion on what it is, it could be different to what google describes it as

black francis wrote: »

It's called a birth rate - Ireland is lucky enough to have a positive one which is the envy of many Europoean countries.
People die - others are born, they eventually buy houses.

lmao "eventually"

jluv

Of the 65% who have paid,they must see some shame in it as I know a lot of people and this has been a big topic of conversation and I have only encountered one person who has admitted to paying and they did so because they were selling their house.

Sizzler

black francis wrote: »

Those most opposed to the charge will be the ones who end up paying the most in penalties and interest.

I'm finding the irony delicious.

Frightening stuff alright....a full 33 euros penalties and interest IF they pursue you.

It will cost them c.€350 MINIMUM to collect 33% of the collectable charge....another classic case of public service commercial acumen for all to see. Councils cant even collect big ticket debt currently which is economically worthwile to chase and people still think they will set nail people to a cross for 100 euros LOL

Almost as good as this one...still makes me laugh !

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/the-dearest-little-shop-in-town-1476150.html

Frank Black

Hijpo wrote: »

The government must class it as something else seen as they have "planning and development; public parks;open spaces" listed seperatly
why the need to list it 3 times under different names?

Don't know, why don't you ask them?

Hijpo wrote: »

:rolleyes:
Because id like your opinion on what it is, it could be different to what google describes it as

How fiendishly clever of you.

Hijpo wrote: »

lmao "eventually"

yep, nobody is ever going to buy a house again.
Lmao indeed.

Frank Black

Sizzler wrote: »

Frightening stuff alright....a full 33 euros penalties and interest IF they pursue you.

It will cost them c.€350 MINIMUM to collect 33% of the collectable charge....another classic case of public service commercial acumen for all to see. Councils cant even collect big ticket debt currently which is economically worthwile to chase and people still think they will set nail people to a cross for 100 euros LOL

Almost as good as this one...still makes me laugh !

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/the-dearest-little-shop-in-town-1476150.html

How do you work that out?

Why should it cost anything to collect, let the charge and penalties and interest build up and collect from the tax dodgers when the house is transferred.

You might avoid paying, your heirs will not.
They'll probably visit your grave to spit on it regularly.
Meanwhile, the exchequer benefits from the additional tax.

tayto lover

black francis wrote: »

How do you work that out?

Why should it cost anything to collect, let the charge and penalties and interest build up and collect from the tax dodgers when the house is transferred.

You might avoid paying, your heirs will not.
They'll probably visit your grave to spit on it regularly.
Meanwhile, the exchequer benefits from the additional tax.

BUT they seemingly need the money now and they are not getting enough. It will be no good to them years down the road.

Frank Black

tayto lover wrote: »

BUT they seemingly need the money now and they are not getting enough. It will be no good to them years down the road.

They'll just raise it from other tax sources, so what?

Do you honestly believe any ruling Goverenment will be able to afford (either financially or politically) to scrap such a handy revenue generator?

Not a chance,
the charge will continue to accrue, it will be discharged at some stage.

Izzy Skint

black francis wrote: »

They'll just raise it from other tax sources, so what?

Do you honestly believe any ruling Goverenment will be able to afford (either financially or politically) to scrap such a handy revenue generator?

Not a chance,
the charge will continue to accrue, it will be discharged at some stage.

a "handy revenue generator" ???? that's funny....so far they have collected about €99m so that would just about cover 2 DAYS of our current deficit!!!....remember, we are overspending by between €350m - €400m PER WEEK !!....our incompetent government don't seem to realise (or maybe they do and they just couldn't care less) that there is now less people employed supporting an even greater number of unemployed with our internationally renowned generous social welfare system.
Workers have already been hit with tax increases far in excess of the reductions they received during the "boom" years, people have huge levels of property and personal debt and approx 12% of mortgages are now in arrears, petrol is up, motor tax up, transportation and health insurance are up....i could go on and on..... and now they expect people to pay for local services by considering our homes to be asset !!!....how is something that is costing someone say €1000 or €1300 or more a month considered to be an ASSET ???.....even is you had no mortgage there are domestic bills gas, oil, electricity all rip-offs, plus the maintenance of our homes!!....
government are living in cuckoo land....or, as I said earlier, maybe they just couldn't give a f*ck about the people who pay their very generous wages and pensions...this house of cards is going to fall soon imo...
I want the gov. to massively cut public spending and to do it now!....but I really do think that it is even too late now for that...we're f*cked.

bgrizzley

920,00 from 1,800,000 = 65%
does anyone else see something wrong with this maths?

Frank Black

Izzy Skint wrote: »

a "handy revenue generator" ???? that's funny....so far they have collected about €99m so that would just about cover 2 DAYS of our current deficit!!!....remember, we are overspending by between €350m - €400m PER WEEK !!....our incompetent government don't seem to realise (or maybe they do and they just couldn't care less) that there is now less people employed supporting an even greater number of unemployed with our internationally renowned generous social welfare system.
Workers have already been hit with tax increases far in excess of the reductions they received during the "boom" years, people have huge levels of property and personal debt and approx 12% of mortgages are now in arrears, petrol is up, motor tax up, transportation and health insurance are up....i could go on and on..... and now they expect people to pay for local services by considering our homes to be asset !!!....how is something that is costing someone say €1000 or €1300 or more a month considered to be an ASSET ???.....even is you had no mortgage there are domestic bills gas, oil, electricity all rip-offs, plus the maintenance of our homes!!....
government are living in cuckoo land....or, as I said earlier, maybe they just couldn't give a f*ck about the people who pay their very generous wages and pensions...this house of cards is going to fall soon imo...
I want the gov. to massively cut public spending and to do it now!....but I really do think that it is even too late now for that...we're f*cked.

Well we are if enough people share your defeatist attitude. I myself am more optimistic that we can make the necessary adjustments over a number of years to avoid any sharp slumps in the economy. Then we re-negotiate the debt from a position of strength.
The government have cut public spending and will continue to do so, but if you think spending adjustments alone will bridge the gap, you're delusional.

The costs of exiting the euro, are potentially catastrophic, for example, who knows what large employment american multi-nationals would reconsider their position here?

We must recalibrate our outlooks, certain tax rises are inevitable, this particular one works so well in other countries, it's impossible to imagine it being withdrawn.

You will need to get used to the idea, that the longer you leave off paying, the more you'll ultimately pay.

mikom

black francis wrote: »

You will need to get used to the idea, that the longer you leave off paying, the more you'll ultimately pay.

Hard to tax a dead man.
Good luck trying.

Frank Black

mikom wrote: »

Hard to tax a dead man.
Good luck trying.

You won't be taxing a dead man.
You'll be taxing his house.

mikom

black francis wrote: »

You won't be taxing a dead man.
You'll be taxing his house.

The dead man cares not a jot.

bgrizzley

mikom wrote: »

The dead man cares not a jot.

plus bonus points if you last longer than 12 years..............

Izzy Skint

black francis wrote: »

Well we are if enough people share your defeatist attitude. I myself am more optimistic that we can make the necessary adjustments over a number of years to avoid any sharp slumps in the economy. Then we re-negotiate the debt from a position of strength.
The government have cut public spending and will continue to do so, but if you think spending adjustments alone will bridge the gap, you're delusional.

The costs of exiting the euro, are potentially catastrophic, for example, who knows what large employment american multi-nationals would reconsider their position here?

We must recalibrate our outlooks, certain tax rises are inevitable, this particular one works so well in other countries, it's impossible to imagine it being withdrawn.

You will need to get used to the idea, that the longer you leave off paying, the more you'll ultimately pay.

I repeat, how can something that costs a person €1,000 a month, considered an ASSET ?
"certain tax rises are inevitable"....we have already had a LOT of tax rises.
" if you think spending adjustments alone will bridge the gap, you're delusional."...I'm delusional ?!!....overspending by €400m a week and you think that a combination of spending cuts plus tax rises will bridge this gap....perhaps, but only if the ratio was 90% spending cuts to 10% tax rises, also what is your timeframe for all this?...tick tock....
Also, we WILL need another bailout in approx 20 months time if not sooner!...there is not a hope in hell we will be able to re-enter the bond markets for years yet....
And what if the economy fails to grow?....a very real possibility given the governments attitude towards introducing new taxes.
"the longer you leave off paying, the more you'll ultimately pay."...the way I see it , the longer I leave off paying, the greater the chances of this failing....especially if we have a change of government...who knows??
night all....