Household Charge Mega-Thread [Part 2] *Poll Reset*

dvpower

robbie7730 wrote: »

Speaking from experience are you?

Just applying common sense.

robbie7730 wrote: »

So if it did go up to 5000 a year (unlikely but as example), would you have any objection what so ever, or would you just accept its a new tax, and pay because its a tax?

If it went up to €5000 a year it would be over the total budget for local authority spending.

I wouldn't mind so much if it went up to a level so it funded 100% of what central government currently transfer to local authorities, so long as there was a matching reduction in central government taxes.

xflyer

Well so far no one has come near me demanding I pay the charge and as best as I can tell no one, not even the high profile no campaigners have been hauled before the courts.

Pity, I looked forward to the knock on the door from the local council. But thank you to all you people who paid. We can really see the difference the charge has made to all the local amenities.

The majority of people in the country who weren't imtimidated thank you!:P

kippy

xflyer wrote: »

Well so far no one has come near me demanding I pay the charge and as best as I can tell no one, not even the high profile no campaigners have been hauled before the courts.

Pity, I looked forward to the knock on the door from the local council. But thank you to all you people who paid. We can really see the difference the charge has made to all the local amenities.

The majority of people in the country who weren't imtimidated thank you!:P

The whole thing has been swept under the carpet (temporarily) until after the referendum (for obvious reasons).
After that, I suspect those who haven't paid, will be contacted.

dvpower

xflyer wrote: »

Well so far no one has come near me demanding I pay the charge and as best as I can tell no one, not even the high profile no campaigners have been hauled before the courts.

Phil Hogan issued a statement last Thursday.

The Environment Minister Phil Hogan has said people who do not pay their household charge over the coming months face court action.

(more)

Hijpo

good man phil hogan :pac:

Mighty words there, see you in court.

Izzy Skint

kippy wrote: »

The whole thing has been swept under the carpet (temporarily) until after the referendum (for obvious reasons).
After that, I suspect those who haven't paid, will be contacted.

How will they contact people?....they could not even deliver an information leaflet to every house in the country ffs!....also, if they now intend to "contact" people, then why couldn't they have sent out invoices to all those eligible to pay before the deadline?...oh yeah, the onus was not on them to contact people....what a pile of crap.

Wild Bill

dvpower wrote: »

Phil Hogan issued a statement last Thursday.

Yeah!

He issued a statement about burning the bondholders last year :rolleyes:

That drone has a serious credibility issue in that nobody takes him seriously

I guess this is on a par with Noonan claiming in March that suggestions that Ireland would need a second "bailout" were "ludicrous" - but is now saying vote "yes" because we may need another bailout!

George Orwell had a name for this...."Duckspeak".

Izzy Skint

dvpower wrote: »

Phil Hogan issued a statement last Thursday.

(more)

so hogan is threatening people yet again....for a change I would like to hear somebody in our useless government threatening to bring those bankers, developers and politicians responsible for f*cking this country up, to justice...how about threatening to bring drug smugglers / dealers to justice....how about threatening europe with default?
.....no, it's much easier to threaten the hard working, long suffering people who hold this country together and are now burdened with massive debts.
HERR HOGAN....you are a vanker !!

The_Thing

I'd rather see Ireland become a failed state alongside the likes of Somalia than give the thieving Blue-Shirts a single cent.

They lied at election time and continue to do so to this day.

tayto lover

Apparently Hulk Hogan has obtained permission from the Data Protection Office to access details of all who refused to pay. Things will get interesting when he starts. This will bring up the anger in all sorts of people especially as the Bankers etc have not been in court and are unlikely to be.

Izzy Skint

dvpower wrote: »

There will be an income threshold when the full property tax comes into force that should deal with 'ability to pay'.
The number of property owners who genuinely can't afford €100 over a year is very small.


Raising taxes is a pretty fundemental power we give to a democratically elected government.

cutting spending is another pretty fundemental power we give to a democratically elected government.
They have broken every single election promise they made, except one, that they would not raise income tax...instead they cut just about everything else, and raised other taxes such as petrol and the vat rate, they are also now ROBBING peoples savings through the pension levy....and after all that they are now threatening to break their final election promise and increase income tax if we don't support the hhc, water charge etc!!!...they are just a pack of lying bar stewards !!!

Izzy Skint

tayto lover wrote: »

Apparently Hulk Hogan has obtained permission from the Data Protection Office to access details of all who refused to pay. Things will get interesting when he starts. This will bring up the anger in all sorts of people especially as the Bankers etc have not been in court and are unlikely to be.

Tayto... we sort of got Seanie Fitzpatrick...remember, he was questioned twice by the police AND we crushed his 20 year old mercedes (probably worth about 2 - 3 thousand euro at the time).... good to see Irish justice in action....

darkhorse

Hi Izzy Skint,

I fully agree agree with you. Somebody in authority should really think about bringing to justice all the people who ruined this country by their greed. It's gone beyond a joke at this stage.
John

Izzy Skint

jbyrne10 wrote: »

Hi Izzy Skint,

I fully agree agree with you. Somebody in authority should really think about bringing to justice all the people who ruined this country by their greed. It's gone beyond a joke at this stage.
John

Hi John, it is a nice thought but unfortunately it will never happen....and it is as you say, gone beyond a joke....people are suffering, many are struggling to survive and many of these are people who have a job!, people have died and more will die due to the effects of all this austerity and huge debt placed around our necks, and all this because we must pay back german gamblers!
There is no justice in this country, in fact, there never was. We must have the some of the most corrupt politicians in Europe, if not the world...think back as far as Haughey, make a list of all those politicians who have found themselves in controversy...it is a very long list!!...and how many were ever fully brought to justice...it is a very short list!!
Our legal system is a joke, it is too expensive, too archaic, too slow, and, most importantly, there is no political will or guts to see justice done.
It costs on average €100,000 a year to keep someone in prison!! and now they are letting them out ever earlier due to overcrowding!!...what hope is there if we can not even keep these locked up for even half of their already lenient sentence?...and when it comes to the more respectable white collar criminals, forget it....joe public has to bear the brunt of all this, he must pay for everything and for everyone...enough is enough.

Chucky the tree

jbyrne10 wrote: »

Hi Izzy Skint,

I fully agree agree with you. Somebody in authority should really think about bringing to justice all the people who ruined this country by their greed. It's gone beyond a joke at this stage.
John

Do we really have enough space to imprison everyone who voted for fianna Fail in the last 12 years?

kippy

Izzy Skint wrote: »

How will they contact people?....they could not even deliver an information leaflet to every house in the country ffs!....also, if they now intend to "contact" people, then why couldn't they have sent out invoices to all those eligible to pay before the deadline?...oh yeah, the onus was not on them to contact people....what a pile of crap.

They didnt have a huge amount of time to get the required legislation together to access data from numerous sources and didn't have anywhere near the personaal or systems required to aggregate and analyse such data. That has not changed (or is about to I believe).

If you believe the state won't at some point be able to get together a comprehensive list of property owners through the aggregation of various data then you are fooling yourself.

dvpower

Izzy Skint wrote: »

.....no, it's much easier to threaten the hard working, long suffering people who hold this country together and are now burdened with massive debts.

He is only threatening tax evaders.

Ghandee

dvpower wrote: »

He is only threatening tax evaders.

Does Phil not realise, that as someone in a position such as his, the onus in on him to set an example.

Perhaps, the majority of the public do not see themselves as 'tax evaders', and are simply following the example set by Mr Hogan, when he failed to pay his own (Or a very similar example) of a household charge?

ENVIRONMENT Minister Phil Hogan, who is in the eye of a storm over the household charge, is refusing to pay service charges on his penthouse apartment in Portugal, the Sunday Independent can reveal.


Mr Hogan, who has an apartment in Villamoura on the Algarve, has an outstanding service charge of €4,320, according to a 'debtors' list document dated March 27.

Yesterday, the minister confirmed that fees "of that order" were outstanding but said that he was in dispute with the apartment complex's management company.

"Would you pay a charge if you were unhappy with the service?" he asked.

Mr Hogan added that he was "annoyed" that details of the outstanding service charges had been obtained by this newspaper.

Eh, no Mr Hogan, as the figures have shown, close to a million wont pay the HHC, as they are 'unhappy with the services'

Do as I say, not as I do Phil?

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/phil-hogan-refuses-to-pay-4k-service-charges-on-his-portugal-holiday-penthouse-3067684.html

Izzy Skint

dvpower wrote: »

He is only threatening tax evaders.

do you mean the tax evaders who pay his very generous salary and expenses ?... or is it the tax evaders who are paying the generous salaries of hulk hogan's buddies in government?...or is it the tax evaders who are paying the overly generous salaries and pensions of those lucky enough to work in the public service....OR....is it the tax evaders who are taxed to breaking point and yet must support a regime which is overspending by €400,000,000 a week ????.....
good man DV, you are definitely earning your money here, doing a fine job at building resistance to the HHC...keep up the good work.

Izzy Skint

kippy wrote: »

They didnt have a huge amount of time to get the required legislation together to access data from numerous sources and didn't have anywhere near the personaal or systems required to aggregate and analyse such data. That has not changed (or is about to I believe).

If you believe the state won't at some point be able to get together a comprehensive list of property owners through the aggregation of various data then you are fooling yourself.

why did they not have the time?...simple answer is they can't compile such a list without the publics help, and that is exactly why you have to "register".
How long do you think it will take them to compile such a "comprehensive" list?....remember now, we are talking about the government and the public service lol...will it be before the next general election?....I wouldn't bet on it.

dvpower

Ghandee wrote: »

Perhaps, the majority of the public do not see themselves as 'tax evaders'

Yeah. Its not unusual for law breakers to make excuses for their behavior.
"Why don't the cops chase 'real' criminals and stop picking on me for double parking" - that kind of thing.

Izzy Skint wrote: »

do you mean the tax evaders who pay his very generous salary and expenses ...

No - the tax evaders refuse to pay their lawful taxes. I think you're referring to the tax compliant.

tayto lover

dvpower wrote: »

He is only threatening tax evaders.

Has he paid his own fees yet abroad ? He'd look bad and hypocritical prosecuting us while he hasn't paid himself abroad.

Phill Ewinn

tayto lover wrote: »

Has he paid his own fees yet abroad ? He'd look bad and hypocritical prosecuting us while he hasn't paid himself abroad.

The only thing Phil cares about is Phil.

dvpower

tayto lover wrote: »

Has he paid his own fees yet abroad ? He'd look bad and hypocritical prosecuting us while he hasn't paid himself abroad.

I'm not too interested in a dispute he has with a private company abroad.

But tax evaders in this country (like so many on this thread) are a different story altogether.

Ghandee

dvpower wrote: »

Yeah. Its not unusual for law breakers to make excuses for their behavior.
"Why don't the cops chase 'real' criminals and stop picking on me for double parking" - that kind of thing.


No - the tax evaders refuse to pay their lawful taxes. I think you're referring to the tax compliant.

Are you putting Phil's name into the pot of 'law breakers' Dv?
After all, what you are classing as 'law breakers' are people who've refused to pay the household charge, which is (we're being told anyway) to provide local 'services'.

If big Phil refused to pay for his 'services' in Portugal, surely to God that makes him a law breaker too, no?

Just like we 'can't pick and choose what taxes we do, or do not pay' you can't pick who you class, or don't class as a law breaker.

So for the benefit of me, and every other poster/reader on boards.

Is Phil Hogan a law breaker/tax evader for not paying his equivalent of the household charge in Portugal?

A simple yes or no will do.


Thanks

mikom

dvpower wrote: »

But tax evaders in this country (like so many on this thread) are a different story altogether.

Thought it was a charge, not a tax........... as in the household CHARGE.

Bruthal

dvpower wrote: »

Yeah. Its not unusual for law breakers to make excuses for their behavior.

Come back to us when you are flawless and break none yourself, ever.

dxhound2005

tayto lover wrote: »

Apparently Hulk Hogan has obtained permission from the Data Protection Office to access details of all who refused to pay. Things will get interesting when he starts. This will bring up the anger in all sorts of people especially as the Bankers etc have not been in court and are unlikely to be.

He doesn't have to obtain permission from the Data Protection Office for anything. The power to share and exchange data with bodies such as the ESB and the Revenue Commissioners is given to the LGMA in the legislation. People who think that not registering will somehow exempt their property from liability are wrong.

dvpower

Ghandee wrote: »

Are you putting Phil's name into the pot of 'law breakers' Dv?
After all, what you are classing as 'law breakers' are people who've refused to pay the household charge, which is (we're being told anyway) to provide local 'services'.

If big Phil refused to pay for his 'services' in Portugal, surely to God that makes him a law breaker too, no?

Just like we 'can't pick and choose what taxes we do, or do not pay' you can't pick who you class, or don't class as a law breaker.

So for the benefit of me, and every other poster/reader on boards.

Is Phil Hogan a law breaker/tax evader for not paying his equivalent of the household charge in Portugal?

A simple yes or no will do.


Thanks

No.

mikom wrote: »

Thought it was a charge, not a tax........... as in the household CHARGE.

You say potato, I say ....

Ghandee

dvpower wrote: »

No.


You say potato, I say ....

Care to elaborate?

Why should Phil not pay his hhc, but we must?