Household Charge Mega-Thread [Part 2] *Poll Reset*

dvpower

Ghandee wrote: »

Care to elaborate?

1. He isn't, to my knowledge, in breach if any law in Portugal. Its just a contract dispute that hasn't as yet been escalated to any court or arbitration process. Nor has it got anything to do with their version of the HHC - its a private property maintenance fee like, for example, the residents of Priory Hall would be charged for upkeep of the complex.

2. I don't really care if people call it a tax or a charge. It makes little difference to me.

Ghandee wrote: »

Why should Phil not pay his hhc, but we must?

I'd be fairly confident that Phil Hogan has paid his HHC

dvpower

robbie7730 wrote: »

Come back to us when you are flawless and break none yourself, ever.

Yeah. That's another one - "If everyone is doing it, why can't I?"

Bruthal

dvpower wrote: »

Yeah. That's another one - "If everyone is doing it, why can't I?"

Yea, well when your telling us how law breakers make excuses, it sounds like you exclude yourself from being a law breaker. Either you yourself make no excuses, or break no laws.

dvpower

robbie7730 wrote: »

Yea, well when your telling us how law breakers make excuses, it sounds like you exclude yourself from being a law breaker. Either you yourself make no excuses, or break no laws.

Venn diagram time again?

mikom

dvpower wrote: »

Venn diagram time again?

You obviously move in very different circles to the general public........

Bruthal

dvpower wrote: »

Venn diagram time again?

Yea put one up there, i know you want to.

Ghandee

dvpower wrote: »

I'd be fairly confident that Phil Hogan has paid his HHC

But hasn't paid for local service charge on his Portuguese apartment, that's ok though isn't it.

The brass neck of the lad tbh. Threatening the Irish public whilst he avoided/refused to pay a similar charge in Portugal.

I'm sure Phil signed up to some agreement or other to pay said charge, before taking ownership of the property, which is more than can be said for the million odd Irish citizens who've yet to party the HHC.

dvpower

robbie7730 wrote: »

Yea put one up there, i know you want to.

I'll leave you to draw it yourself in your minds eye.

Wild Bill

dvpower wrote: »

Venn diagram time again?

Go for it DV!

Bruthal

dvpower wrote: »

I'll leave you to draw it yourself in your minds eye.

Its not the first time you hint about drawing one, so come on, off you go....

jluv

dvpower wrote: »

I'm not too interested in a dispute he has with a private company abroad.

But tax evaders in this country (like so many on this thread) are a different story altogether.

Why is it known as a household charge and not a household tax?

jluv

Apologies Mikom,was reading through the thread before I saw you had already pointed out that this is being called a charge,not a tax:)

Izzy Skint

jluv wrote: »

Why is it known as a household charge and not a household tax?

tax is a very dirty word, charge is not as dirty...same thing really, as DV so often quotes 'you say potato I say...'
In the governments mind, it is easier to introduce a 'charge' as opposed to a 'tax' and also less likely to cause a backlash from the public....well they also got that one very wrong lol.
Do they think we are all mindless idiots who cannot see what they are up to?
Next year, 'tax' will replace the term 'charge' and 'property' will replace 'household' !!!!....sneaky eh?.....we will go from a harmless sounding 'household charge' of only €100 (or €2 a week according to the hulk) to a full blown 'property tax' and when that happens then the sky's the limit....you have been warned !!

Ghandee

Perhaps a Venn diagram could be used to explain how this total misuse and abuse of tax payers money could be justified?

Another classic example of how our tax money get abused by those in power.

Small Business Minister John Perry managed to claim almost €30,000 in mileage expenses in less than 11 months.

The Fine Gael TD even managed to claim for 4,417kms in a month in which only two official appointments are listed in his diary. The Minister had an engagement in Wexford and one in Tuam, which is just a short drive from his home in Ballymote, Co Sligo.

Asked how the mileage was run up in a period in which the Dail and many government offices were closed, his Department said he had taken no holidays that month. They also said much of the mileage had been run up driving between his three constituency offices in Co Sligo.

In July of last year, the Minister made a claim for 8,722kms, which works out at 281kms per day. Mr Perry’s home in Ballymote is 192kms from the Dail, with a driving time of two and a half hours. To put it in perspective, that claim was the equivalent of a round trip to Wexford every single day, including weekends.

In the month of September, the Minister made a claim for 7,588kms despite the fact that at least nine days of the month were spent abroad (in Australia, the UK & Belgium). For the remaining days, his claim works out an average of 344kms per day, the same as a round trip to Belfast every single day, including weekends and the Bank Holiday. This level of mileage would require the Minister to have spent around four hours of each day in his car.

http://thestory.ie/2012/05/07/john-perrys-enormous-mileage-claims/

This countries a shambles tbh.

I'd like to see the public in the UK put up with crap like that!

tayto lover

Ghandee wrote: »

Perhaps a Venn diagram could be used to explain how this total misuse and abuse of tax payers money could be justified?

Another classic example of how our tax money get abused by those in power.




http://thestory.ie/2012/05/07/john-perrys-enormous-mileage-claims/

This countries a shambles tbh.

It'd like to see the public in the UK put up with crap like that!

Just proves my point that F.G. are just as crooked as F.F. were but preach the nice language of change and decency. Pity they don't practice it. Was just looking back at this one too from last year and it's not isolated either.

http://childaware.net/alpha/index.php?option=com_content&view=category&layout=blog&id=37&Itemid=79&limitstart=96

Ghandee

tayto lover wrote: »

Just proves my point that F.G. are just as crooked as F.F. were but preach the nice language of change and decency. Pity they don't practice it. Was just looking back at this one too from last year and it's not isolated either.

http://childaware.net/alpha/index.php?option=com_content&view=category&layout=blog&id=37&Itemid=79&limitstart=96

Awaits some posters trying to defend these scandals!

kippy

Izzy Skint wrote: »

why did they not have the time?...simple answer is they can't compile such a list without the publics help, and that is exactly why you have to "register".
How long do you think it will take them to compile such a "comprehensive" list?....remember now, we are talking about the government and the public service lol...will it be before the next general election?....I wouldn't bet on it.

Why did the not have the time? Isn't that pretty obvious based on what I said....
There are numerous lists out there held by various organisations and public bodies that contain the information, the issue is the law around data protection (which I believe has been sorted) manpower, which is also sorted.

It'll be well before the general election. Sometime in the next year or so I suspect.

Izzy Skint

kippy wrote: »

Why did the not have the time? Isn't that pretty obvious based on what I said....
There are numerous lists out there held by various organisations and public bodies that contain the information, the issue is the law around data protection (which I believe has been sorted) manpower, which is also sorted.

It'll be well before the general election. Sometime in the next year or so I suspect.

Has the law around data protection been sorted?...where did you get that info from?....any links please?.....if it has, then it is being kept very quiet....is it legal?...or have they also changed those rules?.... isn't it funny that when the government need things 'changed' for whatever reason it can be done so quickly.
manpower ?....who and from where?....transferred from other departments?....how will these other departments ever cope with the loss of these staff...or are the 'manpower' new hires all at extra expense?...could you enlighten us please, I am very curious to hear what new schemes the muppets in government have planned to waste even more of our tax...thanks

Izzy Skint

kippy wrote: »

Why did the not have the time? Isn't that pretty obvious based on what I said....
There are numerous lists out there held by various organisations and public bodies that contain the information, the issue is the law around data protection (which I believe has been sorted) manpower, which is also sorted.

It'll be well before the general election. Sometime in the next year or so I suspect.

at the rate the country's finances are deteriorating, the next general election could be next year ....

kippy

Izzy Skint wrote: »

Has the law around data protection been sorted?...where did you get that info from?....any links please?.....if it has, then it is being kept very quiet....is it legal?...or have they also changed those rules?.... isn't it funny that when the government need things 'changed' for whatever reason it can be done so quickly.
manpower ?....who and from where?....transferred from other departments?....how will these other departments ever cope with the loss of these staff...or are the 'manpower' new hires all at extra expense?...could you enlighten us please, I am very curious to hear what new schemes the muppets in government have planned to waste even more of our tax...thanks

Come back to this post in 12 months time and we'll see where the whole thing stands.
(not defending the charge - just dont think " sure how would they ever know I own a house", is a logical deduction.

dxhound2005

Izzy Skint wrote: »

Has the law around data protection been sorted?...where did you get that info from?....any links please?.....if it has, then it is being kept very quiet....is it legal?...or have they also changed those rules?.... isn't it funny that when the government need things 'changed' for whatever reason it can be done so quickly.
manpower ?....who and from where?....transferred from other departments?....how will these other departments ever cope with the loss of these staff...or are the 'manpower' new hires all at extra expense?...could you enlighten us please, I am very curious to hear what new schemes the muppets in government have planned to waste even more of our tax...thanks

I don't know why people are still trying to make out that there is some issue around data protection. The provisions became legal after the bill was approved in the Oireachtas and the President signed it into law.

http://www.oireachtas.ie/documents/bills28/bills/2011/7411/b7411s.pdf

Data sharing and
exchange.
14.—(1) Notwithstanding any enactment or rule of law—
(a) a relevant person shall, upon a request from a local authority,
provide the local authority with such information
in the possession or control of the relevant person or,
where the relevant person is a body corporate, any sub-
sidiary (within the meaning of section 155 of the Companies
Act 1963) of the relevant person as the local authority
may reasonably require for the purpose of enabling
the local authority to perform its functions under this
Act,
(b) a local authority shall, at such intervals as the Revenue
Commissioners may specify, provide the Revenue Commissioners
with such information obtained by the local
authority pursuant to this Act, including tax reference
numbers, as the Revenue Commissioners may reasonably
require for the purpose of enabling them to perform their
functions under a specified enactment, and
(c) a local authority shall upon a request from, and at such
intervals as may be specified by, a Minister of the
Government, a local authority or a prescribed person,
provide the said Minister of the Government, the local
authority or the prescribed person, as may be appropriate,
with such information obtained by the local authority
pursuant to this Act as the Minister of the Government,
the local authority or the prescribed person
concerned may reasonably require for the purpose of
enabling him or her to perform his or her functions.
(2) The Minister shall not prescribe a person for the purposes of
paragraph (c) of subsection (1) unless he or she is satisfied that the
provision by a local authority of information obtained by the local
authority pursuant to this Act to such person will assist the person
in discharging a function conferred on, or delegated to, him or her
by or under any enactment.
(3) In this section—

“Act of 2010” means the Value-Added Tax Consolidation Act 2010;
“relevant person” means—
(a) the Private Residential Tenancies Board established under
section 150 of the Residential Tenancies Act 2004,
(b) the Electricity Supply Board established in accordance
with the Electricity (Supply) Act 1927,
(c) the Revenue Commissioners,
(d) the Minister for Social Protection, or
(e) any other person standing prescribed for the time being;
“specified enactment” means—
(a) the Tax Acts,
(b) the Capital Gains Tax Acts,
(c) the Act of 2010,
(d) the Stamp Duties Consolidation Act 1999, or
(e) the Act of 2003;
“tax reference number” means—
(a) in relation to an individual, that individual’s personal
public service number (within the meaning of section 262
of the Act of 2005), or
(b) in relation to a body corporate—
(i) the reference number stated on any return of income
form or notice of assessment issued to that person
by an officer of the Revenue Commissioners, or
(ii) the registration number of the body corporate for the
purposes of the Act of 2010.

Izzy Skint

kippy wrote: »

Come back to this post in 12 months time and we'll see where the whole thing stands.
(not defending the charge - just dont think " sure how would they ever know I own a house", is a logical deduction.

I never said anything along the lines of " sure how would they ever know I own a house" , what I said is that it would take them years to compile a comprehensive list, and that is if they could legally gain access to data from different sources. They needed the public to do their job by registering, they know they have a huge task ahead now and all at what cost ?...and that is even before the court actions we are constantly threatened with even start.
Just suppose that they had the details of all who didn't pay on file, what then?....who will be the first to be taken to court, how long will it take, what will the fallout be?...then consider the huge numbers who didn't pay...how long and what cost to bring all to court, as I have mentioned before, we have a costly, inefficient and toothless justice system....

Some other aspects to consider...who will value my house?...how will it be valued?...will they need access to value it?...will it be valued yearly?....how long will that take, how many staff needed, at what cost?...remember we have 2,000,000 homes in this country!!....our public servants and institutions are not really noted for their germanic work ethic or efficiency, are they?

Next year, this tax could very easily be €500 on average , maybe more...lets see the reaction from the public then...can't wait...

over and out ...

Izzy Skint

dxhound2005 wrote: »

I don't know why people are still trying to make out that there is some issue around data protection. The provisions became legal after the bill was approved in the Oireachtas and the President signed it into law.

http://www.oireachtas.ie/documents/bills28/bills/2011/7411/b7411s.pdf

Data sharing and
exchange.
14.—(1) Notwithstanding any enactment or rule of law—
(a) a relevant person shall, upon a request from a local authority,
provide the local authority with such information
in the possession or control of the relevant person or,
where the relevant person is a body corporate, any sub-
sidiary (within the meaning of section 155 of the Companies
Act 1963) of the relevant person as the local authority
may reasonably require for the purpose of enabling
the local authority to perform its functions under this
Act,
(b) a local authority shall, at such intervals as the Revenue
Commissioners may specify, provide the Revenue Commissioners
with such information obtained by the local
authority pursuant to this Act, including tax reference
numbers, as the Revenue Commissioners may reasonably
require for the purpose of enabling them to perform their
functions under a specified enactment, and
(c) a local authority shall upon a request from, and at such
intervals as may be specified by, a Minister of the
Government, a local authority or a prescribed person,
provide the said Minister of the Government, the local
authority or the prescribed person, as may be appropriate,
with such information obtained by the local authority
pursuant to this Act as the Minister of the Government,
the local authority or the prescribed person
concerned may reasonably require for the purpose of
enabling him or her to perform his or her functions.
(2) The Minister shall not prescribe a person for the purposes of
paragraph (c) of subsection (1) unless he or she is satisfied that the
provision by a local authority of information obtained by the local
authority pursuant to this Act to such person will assist the person
in discharging a function conferred on, or delegated to, him or her
by or under any enactment.
(3) In this section—

“Act of 2010” means the Value-Added Tax Consolidation Act 2010;
“relevant person” means—
(a) the Private Residential Tenancies Board established under
section 150 of the Residential Tenancies Act 2004,
(b) the Electricity Supply Board established in accordance
with the Electricity (Supply) Act 1927,
(c) the Revenue Commissioners,
(d) the Minister for Social Protection, or
(e) any other person standing prescribed for the time being;
“specified enactment” means—
(a) the Tax Acts,
(b) the Capital Gains Tax Acts,
(c) the Act of 2010,
(d) the Stamp Duties Consolidation Act 1999, or
(e) the Act of 2003;
“tax reference number” means—
(a) in relation to an individual, that individual’s personal
public service number (within the meaning of section 262
of the Act of 2005), or
(b) in relation to a body corporate—
(i) the reference number stated on any return of income
form or notice of assessment issued to that person
by an officer of the Revenue Commissioners, or
(ii) the registration number of the body corporate for the
purposes of the Act of 2010.

boring....and of no consequence really....still not paying lol.
it's good to see though that the muppets can change and write into law whatever they want when it suits their needs.....how many times in the past have they failed to do this, or else taken years to change anything....just another example of two fingers up to the irish people....night girls.

Chucky the tree

Ghandee wrote: »

Perhaps a Venn diagram could be used to explain how this total misuse and abuse of tax payers money could be justified?

Another classic example of how our tax money get abused by those in power.



http://thestory.ie/2012/05/07/john-perrys-enormous-mileage-claims/

This countries a shambles tbh.

I'd like to see the public in the UK put up with crap like that!

AFAIK the Dail broke for recess at the end of July and came back in the middle of September in which case only his September claim seems OTT.

Phill Ewinn

Chucky the tree wrote: »

AFAIK the Dail broke for recess at the end of July and came back in the middle of September in which case only his September claim seems OTT.

four hours a day, seven days a week in a car. He's meant to be working!!!!!!

Working as a TD, not a fvcking courier.

Chucky the tree

Phill Ewinn wrote: »

four hours a day, seven days a week in a car. He's meant to be working!!!!!!

Working as a TD, not a fvcking courier.

So should he just not turn up to the Dail then?

tayto lover

Chucky the tree wrote: »

So should he just not turn up to the Dail then?

He must be travelling by the scenic route so.

Phill Ewinn

Chucky the tree wrote: »

So should he just not turn up to the Dail then?

WTF? I don't care! I'm not paying some idiot to sit in a car all day.

Throw him 5k to buy a hiace and caravan or give him his P45.

Chucky the tree

tayto lover wrote: »

He must be travelling by the scenic route so.

Maybe you should email him a quicker route from Sligo to Dublin then. Until we know the date of the Dail it's difficult to form an opinion.

Phill Ewinn wrote: »

WTF? I don't care! I'm not paying some idiot to sit in a car all day.

Throw him 5k to buy a hiace and caravan or give him his P45.

You need to brush up on how elections work.

Phill Ewinn

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Maybe you should email him a quicker route from Sligo to Dublin then. Until we know the date of the Dail it's difficult to form an opinion.






You need to brush up on how elections work.

You need to not live in wonderland. Must send you on that letter from the Nigerian prince that wrote to me. He'd shure love to meet you.......