Household Charge Mega-Thread [Part 2] *Poll Reset*

Hijpo

dvpower wrote: »

No. But I agree that some people are happy to lie or attempt to misrepresent others when it suits them, as you have just demonstrated.

lmao like the government then? Only my "lie or attempt to misrepresent",in your opinion, has no effect on anyone.

bluesteel

Ghandee wrote: »

numerous posters oh this thread have referred to the non payers of the household charge as law breakers and tax evaders, (but its a charge, not a tax)

Phil refused to pay his service charge, reasons being that he was 'unhappy with the service received.'


Close to a million people refused to pay for the household charge, with many on this threa d giving reasons that they too won't pay because they 'are not happy with the current services/lack of services provided in their area by the LC.'

Why are they law breakers for refusing to pay for a charge they're currently far from happy with, so in your own words, are 'disputing' charge applied, but Phil isn't?

Tell the truth , this its you Phil, isn't it?

Oh grow up. If they genuinely dispute the charge they could bring the government to court! Surely even you know that a contractural dispute is not the same as breaking a law? What Portuguese law has he broken so?

Do you realise most countries have a property tax or council tax? A few grand a year for most Americans, about a grand or more in London. Even Tony Soprano types have to pay in the US. Being peed off with the gubbernmnet isn't sufficient excuse not to pay. Should self employed people refuse to submit their tax returns in October because of such juvenile claims?

jluv

bluesteel wrote: »

another piss poor, self serving example by the "let someone else pay brigade".

He has a contract with the company to provide certain services, he feels the have not fulfilled their side and has not paid yet. He bought the apartment know there would be service charges and presumably has no difficulty with that. It's the level of service that is causing the dispute, and it's a civil matter.

Say I'm self employed. and earning 500k a year. Do you think I have a should be able to choose whether or not I pay my taxes? or just "de ordinary man, Joe" that should have a choice?

I'm not of the "let someone else pay brigade" yet I did not pay.I am of the "let everyone who benefits from this CHARGE pay".I have paid over and over and there eventually comes a time when you have to say NO.
You may not have been in a position where you have paid over and over for the same services,while not recieving them,so you may not feel as strongly as I do.You may very well get to that point in the near future though..

Hijpo

bluesteel wrote: »

Should self employed people refuse to submit their tax returns in October

lol
Now who needs to grow up?

You wouldnt happen be self employed by any chance?

Can anyone name one decent service worth the money that the government provides?

We should attatch a parachute to the dail, let them all waffle on, the hot air will fill the chute and carry them all off some place.

jluv

In addition I believe this was a registration fee. In disguise..

darkhorse

Hi Chucky the tree,

We could send yer man the website address of aa roadwatch and he could use the route planner. In fact, they could all use it(I'm sure somebody would show them)and it would save us a lot of money, d ya think.
John:)

blowtorch

Ghandee wrote: »

Perhaps a Venn diagram could be used to explain how this total misuse and abuse of tax payers money could be justified?

Another classic example of how our tax money get abused by those in power.




http://thestory.ie/2012/05/07/john-perrys-enormous-mileage-claims/

This countries a shambles tbh.

I'd like to see the public in the UK put up with crap like that!

Ministerial Milage rates
http://debates.oireachtas.ie/dail/2011/06/28/00328.asp
Or, converted to 'KM' rates.

Ghandee

bluesteel wrote: »

Oh grow up. If they genuinely dispute the charge they could bring the government to court! Surely even you know that a contractural dispute is not the same as breaking a law? What Portuguese law has he broken so?

Do you realise most countries have a property tax or council tax? A few grand a year for most Americans, about a grand or more in London. Even Tony Soprano types have to pay in the US. Being peed off with the gubbernmnet isn't sufficient excuse not to pay. Should self employed people refuse to submit their tax returns in October because of such juvenile claims?

So whats your point?


lets take 'London' for example.

With the grand they pay, they get:

Free Healthcare,
Reduced VAT rates
Free Education
Refuse collections.
No VRT
No water charges (which they, like us currently pay via the income tax)
Way way lower Car tax

We'll be paying a property tax, and admittedly we dont really know how much it will be yet, but lets say for arguments sake its 600 a year?

Will they then abolish bin charges, abolish GP and A&E charges, reduce the scandalous motor tax charges and get rid of the tolls on numerous roads, reduce the vat rate, start providing free transport/school dinners and free Education?

And, as we currently pay for water via our income tax, will taht be reduced now as we'll be paying for water seperately?

No, didnt think so bluesteel.

Also, I think the word 'shirt's' is missing from your username.

Hijpo

blowtorch wrote: »

Ghandee wrote: »

Perhaps a Venn diagram could be used to explain how this total misuse and abuse of tax payers money could be justified?

Another classic example of how our tax money get abused by those in power.




http://thestory.ie/2012/05/07/john-perrys-enormous-mileage-claims/

This countries a shambles tbh.

I'd like to see the public in the UK put up with crap like that!

Ministerial Milage rates
http://debates.oireachtas.ie/dail/2011/06/28/00328.asp
Or, converted to 'KM' rates.

Why are there different rates for different engine sizes, and why are there different engine sizes? Do they need 2ltr mercs and beemers or will 1.6ltr vectras do? If not, why not?

Not trying to catch anyone out here just asking questions.

Chucky the tree

Ghandee wrote: »

Because he's (it would appear quite obvious to me, and I suspect even dvpower, who hasn't even attempted to defend these expense claims) obviously fiddled his expenses.

30,000€ a year, that equals to give or take €600 a week on fuel for Christ sake :eek:

I presume he drives a car, (petrol or otherwise) and not a Boeing/Cessna or a Robinson helicopter?

my job involves covering a lot of the country on a daily basis, (all 32 counties) and I return home to my own house most evenings, I go through a fill of diesel every other day (give our take) which at €70 a fill comes to 140-210 a week, which obviously means even at my busiest, if not go over 11,000 year in fuel expenses.

I'd take a wild presumption here, but I'm betting if this thief was in opposition ATM, he'd be calling for the resignation of the TD in his area claiming these obvious sham expenses.

At least Dick turpin wore a mask chucky, but thanks for defending him, and you guys expect to strand at our front doors, cap in hand, asking for a hundred euro?

Whistle for it, FG. You've proven you can't be trusted with it.

If it's a pricing issue then fair enough, not sure what the price of petrol was at those times so can't workout how much it should be costing. In terms of distance travelled though I don't see the problem.

jbyrne10 wrote: »

Hi Chucky the tree,

We could send yer man the website address of aa roadwatch and he could use the route planner. In fact, they could all use it(I'm sure somebody would show them)and it would save us a lot of money, d ya think.
John:)

Not really, distances he travelled aren't the issue. Although if you know of a quicker way from getting to sligo to Dublin in less than 190kms then maybe you should tell him.

dvpower

Hijpo wrote: »

Why are there different rates for different engine sizes, and why are there different engine sizes? Do they need 2ltr mercs and beemers or will 1.6ltr vectras do? If not, why not?

Not trying to catch anyone out here just asking questions.

Larger engines burn more fuel, generally more expensive cars and more expensive to run.

These are general Civil Service rates that apply throughout the public sector. Private sector companies also tend to take a lead from the Civil Service travel and subsistence rates.
They are, imho, far too high.

dvpower

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Although if you know of a quicker way from getting to sligo to Dublin in less than 190kms then maybe you should tell him.

Maybe not quicker, but certainly cheaper.

Dublin To/From
Ennis, Galway, Limerick, Mayo or Sligo €14.99 (link)

€135 by private car or €14.99 by rail when booked 3 days in advance. Its a no brainer.

Chucky the tree

dvpower wrote: »

Maybe not quicker, but certainly cheaper.

Dublin To/From
Ennis, Galway, Limerick, Mayo or Sligo €14.99 (link)

€135 by private car or €14.99 by rail when booked 3 days in advance. Its a no brainer.

As you said not quicker. I think it's a bit OTT to expect someone to leave their house at 5:30am and not be home by 1030pm.

dvpower

Chucky the tree wrote: »

As you said not quicker. I think it's a bit OTT to expect someone to leave their house at 5:30am and not be home by 1030pm.

The Dublin - Sligo train (8 services a day each way) takes 3:05.
Driving the same journey takes 2:38 (Google driving directions).

So a return trip takes about an hour extra by train, but saves the commuter over 5 hours driving time where they can do something more productive while sitting on the train and saves the state €240.
Its a complete no brainer.

Chucky the tree

dvpower wrote: »

The Dublin - Sligo train (8 services a day each way) takes 3:05.
Driving the same journey takes 2:38 (Google driving directions).

So a return trip takes about an hour extra by train, but saves the commuter over 5 hours driving time where they can do something more productive while sitting on the train and saves the state €240.
Its a complete no brainer.

Depends what you definition of productive is. In the time he saves he can be meeting constituents etc. Sitting on a train he can answer emails. Add in the extra cost of taxis if he has places to go in Dublin and it isn't a no brainer really. Not to mention it will just decrease the likelyhood of him turning up the Dail in the first place.

dvpower

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Depends what you definition of productive is. In the time he saves he can be meeting constituents etc. Sitting on a train he can answer emails. Add in the extra cost of taxis if he has places to go in Dublin and it isn't a no brainer really.

Sure its not black and white. One thing is for sure - driving for 5+ hours a day is an unproductive use of a TD's time.

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Not to mention it will just decrease the likelyhood of him turning up the Dail in the first place.

If we have to sweeten the deal for Dáil deputies to turn up at the Dáil, then I think we've lost all hope.

Wild Bill

dvpower wrote: »

I think we've lost all hope.

So why do you still support the current Regime? :rolleyes:

(With thanks to SF for the concept)

tayto lover

I think my brain is addled !!! I'm after thanking TWO of dvpower's posts.

darkhorse

Hi Chuckey the tree,

I know, I travelled it a lot over the the past thirty five years. I was merely trying to imply through my weird sense of humour that these guy's are so insensitive to the financial burden of our state that they really don't give a damn about scamming the system for every penny.
John

Chucky the tree

dvpower wrote: »

Sure its not black and white. One thing is for sure - driving for 5+ hours a day is an unproductive use of a TD's time.


If we have to sweeten the deal for Dáil deputies to turn up at the Dáil, then I think we've lost all hope.

TDs don't get elected because they turn up to the Dail, they get elected because of what they do in the constituency. If they can't meet their constiuents because they spent to much time in the Dail then they won't do one of those, and it won't be the one that involves being away from home for 12 hours every day.

blowtorch

dvpower wrote: »

Larger engines burn more fuel, generally more expensive cars and more expensive to run.

These are general Civil Service rates that apply throughout the public sector. Private sector companies also tend to take a lead from the Civil Service travel and subsistence rates.
They are, imho, far too high.

But accountability isn't really there (judging by the layout of their expenses sheets). When I submit a milage sheet to my boss, I have to list each trip, the purpose of each trip, and the milage for each trip. From what I see with the ministers, they just put in a one-liner 'monthly milage' - Or do they provide the back-up details - each trip + purpose stated seperately - on a seperate sheet?

dvpower

blowtorch wrote: »

But accountability isn't really there (judging by the layout of their expenses sheets). When I submit a milage sheet to my boss, I have to list each trip, the purpose of each trip, and the milage for each trip. From what I see with the ministers, they just put in a one-liner 'monthly milage' - Or do they provide the back-up details - each trip + purpose stated seperately - on a seperate sheet?

In the Civil Service, when someone submits a mileage claim, they must provide details of each trip (from-to, date, distance, reason...). I expect that TDs are exactly the same - I can't think of any good reason that they wouldn't be, but I don't know for sure.

Gumbo

dvpower wrote: »

In the Civil Service, when someone submits a mileage claim, they must provide details of each trip (from-to, date, distance, reason...). I expect that TDs are exactly the same - I can't think of any good reason that they wouldn't be, but I don't know for sure.

Same as my Public Service job, we have a common form which is submitted electronically with dates, where from and where to, reason for travel and distance travelled.

When the Greeks said no to property taxes, they meant it!

http://ftalphaville.ft.com/blog/2012/05/15/1000971/greece-when-the-lights-go-out/
Greece: when the lights go out

Posted by Masa Serdarevic on May 15 17:13.
The desperate cunning scheme to get Greeks to pay property taxes by bundling them with electricity bills didn’t last long. You guessed it, people stopped paying their electricity bills and now it looks like the power company – which had to be bailed out last month – has stopped even trying to collect the levy.
From Ekathimerini, the Greek daily (emphasis ours):

Public Power Corporation (PPC) has already disengaged itself from involvement in the payment of the special property tax that had been incorporated into electricity bills.
Well-informed sources suggest that the new bills the company is issuing do not include the property levy despite the law providing for the first installment concerning 2012.
The decision, the same sources say, appears to have the acquiescence of the Finance Ministry.
Judging by the fact that unpaid bills in the first quarter of the year totaled some 1 billion euros, PPC believes it has become clear that households cannot afford to pay electricity bills that are burdened further by the extraordinary property tax in the current recession conditions.

The government had hoped to raise €1.7bn-€2bn from the levy in the fourth quarter of last year. But a massive unions-led civil disobedience movement against this “injustice” scuppered that and a ruling that it was illegal to disconnect people’s electricity supply for non-payment sent the collection rate even lower.

hondasam

Anyone listening to Joe Duffy today? People who were late paying got their cheques sent back requesting an extra €11 to be paid.
How much is this going to cost in postage and admin fees?

dvpower

hondasam wrote: »

Anyone listening to Joe Duffy today? People who were late paying got their cheques sent back requesting an extra €11 to be paid.
How much is this going to cost in postage and admin fees?

Probably less than it would cost to administer partial payments.

Why didn't these people just pay the right amount?

darkhorse

hondasam wrote: »

Anyone listening to Joe Duffy today? People who were late paying got their cheques sent back requesting an extra €11 to be paid.
How much is this going to cost in postage and admin fees?

Yea, where's phil now. Probably in the algarve.
John:(:mad:

tayto lover

jbyrne10 wrote: »

Yea, where's phil now. Probably in the algarve.
John:(:mad:

They're hiding Hulk Hogan and all the other bad news until they get the "Yes" vote, which they won't get. He might re-appear after the second Referendum on the Fiscal Treaty.

hondasam

tayto lover wrote: »

They're hiding Hulk Hogan and all the other bad news until they get the "Yes" vote, which they won't get. He might re-appear after the second Referendum on the Fiscal Treaty.

:pac::pac:
There will be no second Referendum. HHC will soon be abandoned.

gerryo777

hondasam wrote: »

Anyone listening to Joe Duffy today? People who were late paying got their cheques sent back requesting an extra €11 to be paid.
How much is this going to cost in postage and admin fees?

And they need the extra money raised to pay these wasters.
People whose cheques were dated March 31st had them sent back.
More inefficiencies from our cosseted PS. Maybe they're trying to justify their existence!