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Household Charge Mega-Thread [Part 2] *Poll Reset*

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    #3422
    Battered Mars Bar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 672 ✭✭✭Battered Mars Bar


    Hijpo wrote: »
    actually on the website it says the EU/IMF commits the government to the introduction of a property tax.

    Nothing to do with anything I said, grab a coffee guys :)


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    #3423
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    Hijpo wrote: »
    actually on the website it says the EU/IMF commits the government to the introduction of a property tax.

    I've posted this before I think, but worth doing it again. The troika have specified a property tax to be introduced by Q4-2011.

    People who are refusing to pay it should at least be doing so with their eyes wide open.

    MOU wrote:


    4. Actions for the fourth review (actions to be completed by end Q4-

    2011)


    i. Fiscal consolidation



    Government will rigorously implement the budget for 2011 and the fiscal consolidation
    measures announced afterwards, consistent with the requirements of the excessive deficit
    procedure. Progress is assessed against the (cumulative) quarterly primary deficit ceilings in
    the Memorandum of Economic and Financial Polices (MEFP) including the Technical
    Memorandum of Understanding (TMU).
    The government will provide a draft budget for 2012 aiming to further reduce the general
    government deficit in line with the National Recovery Plan and the programme and including
    the detailed presentation of consolidation measures amounting to at least €3.6bn.
    - Revenue measures to yield €1,500m4 in a full year will be adopted, including:
    - A lowering of personal income tax bands and credits.
    - A reduction in private pension tax reliefs.
    - A reduction in general tax expenditures.
    - A property tax.[/FONT]
    - A reform of capital gains tax and acquisitions tax.
    - An increase in the carbon tax.


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    #3424
    Battered Mars Bar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 672 ✭✭✭Battered Mars Bar


    Ok, I'll help you out here dvpower then go get that coffee...
    Min wrote: »
    The new laws that are going to be brought in where money owed to the state can be taken from social welfare and other tax returns will make the non payers pay and with extra fees.
    Battered Mars Bar wrote: »
    These laws will never be brought in. God bless the yes vote yesterday. We've a thing called The European Court of Justice that will protect us from our own governement. You're probably one of these people that believes it's part of the ECB deal or that the Troika told us to bring in these laws don't ya
    QUOTE]


    jbyrne10 wrote: »

    I'm sorry to have to be the one to tell ya, but the troika don't give a t0ss where our government get the money as long as the get it.

    True that.
    Battered Mars Bar wrote: »
    I know that but they don't tell us what to do to get it...At least I don't think they do, well how would I know. I don't be sitting at the table with the Troika while Enda's sitting quietly on the floor with a bowl of water next to him. They could be dropping subtle hints but I doubt it and even if they did, there's nothing to say that Enda has to do what they say but he probably does..."There's a good boy Enda, wanna go walkies?"
    dvpower wrote: »
    It is clearly part of the Trioka agreement, Have you actually read it?

    A property tax is specificed under the troika deal

    You could read the MOU. If you did, you would know that they do specify the various taxes and charges (including a property tax) that we have to implement.

    Great stuff Dv, once again you tried to put words in my mouth :confused:
    Battered Mars Bar wrote: »
    I suggest you read it dvpower then come back to me with the piece where it says what you think it says lolz

    and get a coffee man!
    dvpower wrote: »
    Just to be clear - are you saying that a property tax isn't specified in the MOU?

    Have you actually read it?

    Lolz :pac:
    Battered Mars Bar wrote: »
    Dv dude, get that coffee will ya

    Go back over what I said, with a fine comb if you want then come back...or can you even read English

    :cool:


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    #3425
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    jbyrne10 wrote: »
    I'm sorry to have to be the one to tell ya, but the troika don't give a t0ss where our government get the money as long as the get it.:(
    Battered Mars Bar wrote: »
    I know that :confused:but they don't tell us what to do to get it...At least I don't think they do, well how would I know.
    Hijpo wrote: »
    actually on the website it says the EU/IMF commits the government to the introduction of a property tax.
    Battered Mars Bar wrote: »
    Nothing to do with anything I said, grab a coffee guys :)
    Make your mind up - the troika either care where we get the money or they don't? (Hint: They do)


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    #3426
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    Battered Mars Bar wrote: »
    [...]or can you even read English :pac:

    I've read the MOU. You?


    No?


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    #3427
    Battered Mars Bar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 672 ✭✭✭Battered Mars Bar


    dvpower wrote: »
    Make your mind up - the troika either care where we get the money or they don't? (Hint: They do)

    Make your mind up, what'cha talkin' about :confused:

    So the troika told our governement to dip their hands into peoples social welfare if they don't pay :confused:


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    #3428
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    Battered Mars Bar wrote: »
    So the troika told our governement to dip their hands into peoples social welfare if they don't pay :confused:
    You're letting your imagination run wild a bit here.


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    #3429
    Battered Mars Bar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 672 ✭✭✭Battered Mars Bar


    dvpower wrote: »
    You're letting your imagination run wild a bit here.

    Very :rolleyes:


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    #3430
    Hijpo
    Registered Users Posts: 3,824 ✭✭✭Hijpo


    Im confused now, whos replying to what part of which argument in defence of what part?

    BMB you said the troika dont tell the government where to get the money, all i said was is that its on the householdcharge website that the EU/IMF financial thingymabob commits the gov into a property tax.


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    #3431
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    Hijpo wrote: »
    Im confused now, whos replying to what part of which argument in defence of what part?

    BMB you said the troika dont tell the government where to get the money, all i said was is that its on the householdcharge website that the EU/IMF financial thingymabob commits the gov into a property tax.

    The HHC/Property tax is specified by the troika.
    The implementation details are up to us.

    [BMB appears to be conflating the two]


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    #3432
    Battered Mars Bar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 672 ✭✭✭Battered Mars Bar


    dvpower wrote: »
    The HHC/Property tax is specified by the troika.
    The implementation details are up to us.

    [BMB appears to be conflating the two]

    Whatever about the agreement, that was done with the governments consent, yes? They don't tell us where to get the money from...do they. As in tell us what to do, where to get monies from, do they. No they don't. They said themselves what cuts we make in our budgets is our own business. As much as our government would love to pass the blame.

    You're the conflated one dv.
    Hijpo wrote: »
    Im confused now, whos replying to what part of which argument in defence of what part?

    BMB you said the troika dont tell the government where to get the money, all i said was is that its on the householdcharge website that the EU/IMF financial thingymabob commits the gov into a property tax.

    Er yea but I was replying to min and yer man dv went off in a different tangent to what I said orignially, it's late guys and I've porn open on another tab so don't confuse me :)


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    #3433
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    Battered Mars Bar wrote: »
    Whatever about the agreement, that was done with the governments consent, yes? They don't tell us where to get the money from...do they. As in tell us what to do, where to get monies from, do they. No they don't. They said themselves what cuts we make in our budgets is our own business. As much as our government would love to pass the blame.
    I'm not quite sure what to make of that ejaculation. :)

    (Edit: I see what you were gettng at 'tho)


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    #3434
    Battered Mars Bar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 672 ✭✭✭Battered Mars Bar


    dvpower wrote: »
    I'm not quite sure what to make of that ejaculation. :)

    You're a boner killer :pac:


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    #3435
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    Battered Mars Bar wrote: »
    You're a boner killer :pac:
    Aw crap - I've now got an image in my head that I could definitely do without.


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    #3436
    D_murph
    Registered Users Posts: 773 ✭✭✭D_murph


    Well, this is just like clockwork. The yes vote is in and now this comes up straight away...

    http://www.independent.ie/national-news/letter-plan-to-target-household-tax-dodgers-3126782.html

    This shower of cunts dont waste much time or even try to be subtle do they? :rolleyes:


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    #3437
    Hijpo
    Registered Users Posts: 3,824 ✭✭✭Hijpo


    And look who gets to chair this expert group, another job for one of the boys a former top civil servant, wonder what his salary and bonus's will be :rolleyes:


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    #3438
    bgrizzley
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,641 ✭✭✭bgrizzley


    lol, a letter reminder, we're fcuked now.
    maybe he got the idea from his management company in Portugal.......


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    #3439
    christmas2012
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,827 ✭✭✭christmas2012


    ''Letter plan to target household tax dodgers'',very strongly worded,these are not tax dodgers(what about all the real tax dodgers in d4 with holiday homes,and business cronies of politicians) they are being unfairly charged for a house they have paid for,are the council going to mow our lawns,fix our fences,gut our gutters,clean our pipes,and do handywork for this tax?NO.
    This,do not be fooled is an unfair tax,a tax that should legally not be even called a tax,as a tax is in essence a charge for a service so its bull****e,where did the councils get the money before?and will income charges on peoples wages be coming down?will min wage and sw increase?NO.This is a stealth tax to pay off fuckers that bankrupted us,and told us to bail them out.

    If enough of us do not pay there is nothing they can do if ENOUGH of us decide NOT to become lemmings....


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    #3440
    hondasam
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,418 ✭✭✭✭hondasam


    The new system is expected to be self-assessed and will result in the owner of a regular three-bed semi-detached home paying €200 to €300 a year.

    I like this a regular three bed semi -detached, what is that exactly?


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    #3441
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    hondasam wrote: »
    I like this a regular three bed semi -detached, what is that exactly?
    Pretty self explanatory.

    christmas2012 wrote: »
    NO.This is a stealth tax to pay off fuckers that bankrupted us,and told us to bail them out.
    Not you. You are a tax dodger.


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    #3442
    gerryo777
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,216 ✭✭✭gerryo777


    tayto lover wrote: »
    I can see it now, a huge banner "RELEASE THE HOUSEHOLD FIVE"

    :D

    Looking forward to a bit of decent grub for a change, the wife's cooking has gone to ****.:D


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    #3443
    hondasam
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,418 ✭✭✭✭hondasam


    dvpower wrote: »
    Pretty self explanatory.

    Really, are all three bedroom houses the same size?

    It's not self explanatory at all.


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    #3444
    ThinkAboutIt
    Registered Users Posts: 329 ✭✭ThinkAboutIt


    The dirty tax dodgers are going to get what's coming to them.


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    #3445
    christmas2012
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,827 ✭✭✭christmas2012


    better off buying an apartment if 200 is going to be the average rate..


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    #3446
    christmas2012
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,827 ✭✭✭christmas2012


    ThinkAboutIt wrote: »
    The dirty tax dodgers are going to get what's coming to them.


    lol,why i would rate as tax dodgers would be bono and those business moguls who are more than happy to profiteer out of ireland,but not pay their tax in ireland,this is what is sucking the country dry,there are so many now out of jobs,and no job creation,while those at the top dont bother paying their way...the press should delve deeper into the 'private lives' of these well paid personalities in and out of politics and in and out of the public eye..
    Its our right to know,and as far as im concerned there are some who are so long out of the country they might as well revoke their citizenship,and we the public should call for it too..


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    #3447
    Ghandee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,653 ✭✭✭Ghandee


    christmas2012 wrote: »
    better off buying an apartment if 200 is going to be the average rate..

    Or, you could always just refuse to pay?


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    #3448
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    hondasam wrote: »
    Really, are all three bedroom houses the same size?

    It's not self explanatory at all.
    Of course not all three bedroom houses are the same size. A regular three bed semi would be one at around the average size and average value.
    Have a walk around your neighborhood or look at a property website and you'll get the idea.


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    #3449
    hondasam
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,418 ✭✭✭✭hondasam


    dvpower wrote: »
    Of course not all three bedroom houses are the same size. A regular three bed semi would be one at around the average size and average value.
    Have a walk around your neighborhood or look at a property website and you'll get the idea.
    Government sources say the property tax is expected to be in the form of a 'site valuation tax', which assesses the value of the site itself and ignores the value of the house built on it.

    As the tax is on the raw value of the site, it takes account of the location more than the physical bricks and mortar of the house itself.

    So two houses side-by-side -- one rundown and one modern -- on the same size site, would be levied the same amount of property tax

    This would suggest the house makes no difference at all. Typical they have no idea what they are doing or how the charge will be calculated.
    It's not going to be a fair tax regardless of how they do it.


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    #3450
    Smidge
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,541 ✭✭✭Smidge


    dvpower wrote: »
    Of course not all three bedroom houses are the same size. A regular three bed semi would be one at around the average size and average value.
    Have a walk around your neighborhood or look at a property website and you'll get the idea.

    So this would mean that an average house of similar size in Coolock would pay the same household charge as that of a similar size house in Foxrock?

    Or are they going to base it on value of the property?

    If so who will value the properties?

    I'm in negative equity so this mean the bank will pay my charge as technically they own my house?;)


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    #3451
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    hondasam wrote: »
    This would suggest the house makes no difference at all.
    That seems to be the case - the site value will be the important factor.
    hondasam wrote: »
    Typical they have no idea what they are doing or how the charge will be calculated.
    Wait what?:eek: Its a site valuation tax according to the article, so they do have some idea how the charge will be calculated.
    hondasam wrote: »
    It's not going to be a fair tax regardless of how they do it.
    No matter how they do it, someone will think it unfair.

    mishkalucy wrote: »
    So this would mean that an average house of similar size in Coolock would pay the same household charge as that of a similar size house in Foxrock?
    If the sites are a similar value, then yes, but I;d say sites in Foxrock are far more valuable than sites in Coolock.
    mishkalucy wrote: »
    Or are they going to base it on value of the property?
    No. On the value of the site.
    Indo wrote:
    Government sources say the property tax is expected to be in the form of a 'site valuation tax', which assesses the value of the site itself and ignores the value of the house built on it.
    mishkalucy wrote: »
    If so who will value the properties?
    Self assessed I'd imagine, with bands and audits and checks against the property database.
    mishkalucy wrote: »
    I'm in negative equity so this mean the bank will pay my charge as technically they own my house?;)
    No. But you might get some kind of alleviation.
    Indo wrote:
    Alleviation for those who paid high stamp duty or first-time buyers during the property boom.


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